Seems like we could be studying the issue, de-stigmatizing treatment and depression. But that would mean a lot of free healthcare AND talking about easy gun access.
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Why isn’t suicide focused on? Is it because of gun politics?
I mean for one, most deaths by suicide are by men. Because we focus so much on either men as "oppressors" or men only having value if they're unfazed by life, people's attitude towards men's issues is largely "you only have yourself to blame."
"An irony asserts itself. By being in need of help, you forfeit your right to it." - Peter Marin, from "Jill gets welfare. Jack becomes homeless".
But it also stands that women attempt more, IIRC. A lot of the issues being related to relative popularity and acceptance by others, in an increasingly frantic and fleeting social media world. They use more balanced attempts that act as effective calls for help, believing someone will feel sorry for them and help, and have the attempt under their belt so people will take their issues seriously. You can attempt multiple times. You only succeed once.
In nearly all male suicide attempts, they don't believe anyone is coming or anyone cares. If for girls, it's a fear of ending up alone, for guys it's having been alone already for too long. There's no call for help because that's just salt on the wound. So the intent is to die. Bonus if you have a way to force everyone to suddenly HAVE to care. IE, taking others out on the way out.
There's a lot of major issues to cover here. But naturally we have been told the same thing we're always told. "Men just use more violent means because it's in their nature. They are violent bastards and so they don't deserve further considerstion." The oldest stereotype of men, repeated by the exact people who claim they advocate against gender roles and gender stereotypes.
There's an aversion to actually discussing and resolving people's troubles. We spread platitudes because they're free and easy to swallow, but it doesn't help. It's the old expressions like "it's okay you're right" "things will get better" "you don't have to change" "it's not your fault". We think baseless support and coddling will fix the problem, but unless you can ensure every person they ever meet will echo the same illusion that's not likely to last.
Some people aren't confident enough to present a pragmatic solution which demands action of the disheartened.
Some people just aren't in touch with reality enough to recognize their feel good catch phrases aren't real.
Some people just don't wanna deal with it but still have a reputation to uphold, so they mail it in.
Gun's have little to do with suicide, other than being a tool to complete the act. In all my suicide attempts I have never considered a gun, cause I wanted to keep my face and body looking good for the funeral.
Drugs, knives and other stuff have been my choice... but as a rape victim who has tried to kill myself dozens of times, I even got free therapy but it required dropping out of college to attend and 4 hours to drive into the city and back.
Suicide is caused by many factors, the man who catches his wife cheating so he files for divorce, and ends up homeless but decides he'll never get out from under child support and alimony that decides to end his life... nobody cares about why or how it got to that point, they see him as a dead beat who didn't want to take care of his kids.
How he got into that situation is not important.
Even rape victims most people don't care if they kill themselves. Generally nobody cares about someone who is suicidal and calling the hotline is only a temporary measure. Someone to talk to who calms you down, who may try to help get you some therapy.
Lots of people think therapy is the end all, fix all but it doesn't work like that.
People used to tell me I needed therapy as if it was a insult, and I would be like, I know I do... I'm getting it, are you? It isn't really stigmatized to me. I can get it free most the time but free is only the therapist, NOT the gas to travel to and from.
Nothing is free though, someone has to pay for it. Maybe health insurance should cover more of it, rather than only a few sessions a year. This means rates would go up though.
have you studied the mind at all or trauma? my sense is group therapy is better than individual because that is how we gain support, in community. unless there are specific things to that individual to be worked on. certainly not a magic cure. ultimately, our minds and bodies record experiences and the "cure" is to release the power of that experience has on us so get our strength back. I worked with a therapist that was running group sessions and saw how it was effective at exposing the issues and prayer releases the power upon us with Gods love. It is a method to heal, the tools are well known by psychologists, but not many of them seem to be taught or used... because most "science" and thus therapists avoid "God". Christian therapists may be more familiar.
@lightbulb27 Yes I have done group therapy before, even led groups at the rape crisis center. For me, things like that help temporarily but soon as I stop going, either cause I don't have the time or money, everything comes back.
It is why it isn't something someone gets over, it is a life sentence.
aquintance of mine was writing the book on how to "get over it". the lies haven't been released yet. there's lies you believe about yourself from that situation that hold you in that state. it's fighting the 800lb gorilla of the sub conscious mind. that's the challenge. generally speaking, that is rooted in childhood and understanding of yourself and others. I agree they can come back as any memory but can take power over them. I have not experience specifically with your scenario although I was abused once, it wasn't so impactful directly. this is... the state of humanity, you'll get to a higher place when get past this.
Except, those that are determined to kill themselves will find another way if guns are not available. Those who don't own guns already do find other ways. Sure they aren't as successful on a first attempt but eventually they will succeed.
What is the point if making someone try multiple times to get it done? Since nothing changes between attempts, which is why they keep trying.
Often nothing can change, therapy won't help... have to get to the root of the problem and stop it before it happens.
for sure, it's really just "integrity"... the mind and boday screaming "something is wrong, I can't take this pain and misery". easy way out is killing the healthy body so the mind dies with it. Solution, is change... but changing an 800lb gorilla sub conscious is painful and difficult. by design, it doesn't want to change. and thus the issue with humanity. Christ solved it... His way.
because most suicides tend to be men and men are unfortunately expendable in society. they are often the ones who do the dangerous jobs like construction, policing, military etc and those who survive can end up with PTSD and other bottled up trauma that only the truly masculine or a therapist can handle.
also feminism is quite entrenched into our society and the double standards of "toxic masculinity" are being held i. e. men need to open up their emotions more but they also need to shut up and man up too which gives off mixed messages. society simply doesn't care about men and expect them figure out on their own. a lot of them do but a lot of them don't and that's just the unfortunate truth.
gun politics has nothing to do with the lack of focus on suicides. in current today cancel culture, only one side gets to speak as loud as possible and the other side is completely censored. suicide being a majority male issue therefore gets pushed into the backburner never to be heard of until a suicidal maniac goes ballistic on the public.
Naw, suicide is mostly an effect action. Any tool will be used doesn't matter if it's a gun or a bridge or a high tower. I don't think you could correlate suicide rates to him ownership, cause the cause of a suicide is the mental state of a person, not the fact that they own a gun. I mean Japan has the most suicides on the globe and they don't even have legal private firearm ownership at all.
I think suicide isn't talked about in the public political arena a lot, cause if you start correlating suicide rates to certain political decisions, legitimation of decisions would get incredibly difficult for politicians.
What makes you think suicide is ignored? I mean, you don't work in mental health, so how would you know?
But your comments make it clear that you don't care about suicide, you just care about taking away people's constitutional right to own firearms. There are, unfortunately, many ways to commit suicide
You aren't going to prevent suicides by taking away firearms, but you'll sure cause a large rise in violent crimes against unarmed people and a very large rise in insurance premiums (might even have some negative effects on the US Treasury market since insurers have to invest in them).
Uh, can you actually make arguments in support of your claims instead of veering off on tangents? Where's your evidence that gun control laws reduce suicide rates?
It’s not off topic. You gave me a list of countries that “beat us” in suicides. I’m saying those countries are put even near industrialized. We compare G20 nations like we compare Ferrari to Maserati.
LOL, you got a list of every country's suicide rate and obviously didn't bother to look at it because you know your claim is inaccurate.
What was Belgium's rate (industrialized and relatively low homicide rate). Or El Salvador, Guatemala and South Africa (high homicide rates)?
And your desire to rule out countries outside the G20 makes no sense. Japan is a very different place than the US, and so is Saudi Arabia. Brazil is very different from Mainland China. Indonesia is very different from Mexico. So are South Korea and Turkey. And so on. South Africa is also a G20 member, by the way.
It's not looking good for you, English and Theater major. Better stick to Kabuki Theater, something you're quite skilled at.
No…dummy. I’m looking at “All” suicide rates descending on the list. It starts with Lesotho and moves through central & South America and Africa. Compare g20 countries like we compare everything else.
Be stupid to compare the US to Guyana wouldn’t it?
Why not? What’s so special about the G20 that means no other country is worth looking at? You’ve made a claim and I found a data set. If anything, the G20 is too small of a data set.
Is your claim supported by the data? I don’t think so.
Gun is the best way akmost guaranteed. Otherwise rope. Factories in China for instance had to put up nets to stop workers from killing themselves from jumping off the top of the building. Another one was carbon monoxide poisoning by hosepipe connected to your exhaust.
I think it is a failure of modern science. I'd turn this back over to the religious and Christian's who are gifted with working with people, having empathy to help them get past their prior traumas. Add in recovery programs and training and it would make a big difference.
I fundamentally don't trust the government to do this kind of work...
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It is actually one of the most intensely studied subjects. But you seem confused, as the people being studied are dead, and there is no "cure" or "medicine" you can help them with to make them "better".
High Suicide rates is the product of a failed system. It would be like admitting that the system has failed. Why would the rich and powerful want that message to be broadcasted?
Suicide is not focused on because the healthcare needed to prevent suicides is expensive and lengthy, and US insurance companies will not pay for it in any effective form. In the US, no insurance = no healthcare to speak of.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
1 y
I'd say it is possible because suicides make up about two-thirds of gun deaths and that is super inconvenient into the narrative and the stereotype that people have that people in the US get shot and killed by some random wacko with a gun all the time.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
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Has nothing to do with guns and the fact that the majority of suicide victims are males. Can't talk about male issues without feminist screaming sexist. There was a university, that threatened to suspend students if they went through with dedicating a day to men's issues.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
1 y
It's a personal decision. I don't support it but people who have no choice and that's the only option left to them. I respect their decision.
It's very unfortunate why some people has to take such step.
But banning is not a solution
Coz if he/she has to take such such step he/she would try others ways too.
Then why only blame guns for this. Guns can save your life too.
Some people just want an easy way out. Blowing your brains out is not one of them. I would go strangulation. Less of a mess and no chance of screwing it up with the correct rigging.
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