Should alleged rapists be able to sue their accusers for defamation?

[SolitarySolace]

Alleged Rapists Are Suing Their Accusers. A New California Law Aims to Deter That - www.msn.com/.../ar-AA1h0eak?ocid=sapphireappshare

No. Believe all women

Yes. Innocent until proven guilty

[normalice]

No. Malicious prosecution should be a criminal matter. If they can prove the accuser made it up beyond a reasonable doubt, then the accuser should go to prison. But proving it based only on a preponderance of the evidence when the standard for proving the rape actually happened is beyond a reasonable doubt is a sadistic double standard, especially as the failure to prove beyond a reasonable doubt could be used as part of the preponderance of evidence.

Not guilty is not the same thing as innocent..

[KrakenAttackin]

@normalice I agree with most of what you said except your excluding civil action. Where there is criminal liability there is usually also civil liability.

[normalice]

If civil culpability is contingent on criminal culpability, sure, but there isn't a lot of damages one can pay for while in prison or with a criminal record. But again that should go both ways, as well. Rape and knowingly false accusations of rape should face equal punishment. Same with all crimes, in my opinion. Especially pedophilia!

[loveslongnails]

If the conditions of defamation are met, I don't see what the rape part has to do with it.
These are some of the conditions of defamation:

1) A defamatory statement was made.
2) The statement made was published in some fashion, meaning it was told to others either verbally or in writing.
3) The statement was not true, and the person who published the statement knew that it was not true.
4) The statement caused the victim harm or injury, emotionally or financially.
5) The statement did not fall under the privileged category.

Once #1 & #2 occur, #3 and #4 become critical. In the case of an alleged rape, it's easy to see how #4 will occur, and if so, the one being accused somehow has to prove that the conditions of #3 become fact.

[Snakeyes7]

I think proven false accusers should be a crime in it of itself but since we do not do that, this is the only option for a man who has been falsely accused, found innocent but still has his life ruined because the accusation alone is that damning.

[inhua]

they should be able to do more than sue their accusers for defamation

accusers who are found guilty of lying need to face the same punishment should the accused have been found guilty

[jshm2]

They do, as it comes under making a false police report, perjury, and wasting court time among other crimes.

[strateguy632]

to deter false accusations. i can only accuse if i can prove it.

[normalice]

That deters true accusations, too, if you can't prove it.

Which, of course, is the whole point. Anyone who can afford an expensive lawyer should be able to rape whomever they want and punish them if they blab about it, amirite?

[msc545]

@normalice An expensive lawyer is not a guarantee that one will prevail.

[normalice]

@msc545 true. But the difference exists and that's bad enough.

[msc545]

@normalice The difference does exist, true, but to the degree that men would feel free to rape? I doubt that...

[normalice]

@msc545 not a single rapist stopped what they were doing because they thought they werent free to rape. That's how they became a rapist. And with powerful attorneys I'd imagine that feeling increases rather than decreases. Even if only slightly, even I only 0.01% by whatever metric, how many additional raped women does that add up to that wouldn't have been raped otherwise?

[msc545]

@normalice on balance, in my opinion, possibly saving one woman from rape is not as important as saving men from ruined live due to false accusations.

[normalice]

@msc545 in my opinion it's a little asinine to presume them to be in competition. You can save both independent of each other.

[msc545]

@normalice If you make it impossible for men to use the only tool they have (defamation lawsuits), that actually will encourage women to make more false accusations.

That clearly makes these things dependent.

[normalice]

@msc545 I understand protecting penises is very important to you but if you make it impossible for women to use the only tool they have (criminal prosecution), that actually will encourage more men to rape women.

Wait, no? Men don't rape just because they can? Huh...

[msc545]

I don't know what you're talking about, but men are still going to get prosecuted if they rape a woman. Apparently you think that isn't going to happen and that certainly is not true.

[normalice]

@msc545 60% of rapes aren't even reported. Texas famously has thousands of rape kits that have been collecting dust for several years. All told it is estimated only 6% of rapists ever see the inside of a jail cell..

[msc545]

@normalice That has nothing at all to do with what we are discussing.

[normalice]

@msc545 I understand redpill rage causes brain damage but please try to at least retain the content of your own recent posts. And failing even that, just scroll up to see what I was replying to. I'll spell it out for you this once, though. You said "... men are still going to get prosecuted if they rape a woman." I was pointing out 94% don't even get prosecuted now.. z 60% Don even get reported. Put the ingredients in place for a narrative that women will go to prison if they can't prove they were raped, and that 60% could easily jump to 100%

[msc545]

So what?

[msc545]

You really think I care about women's welfare in this context? I care about it as much as they care about my welfare. In other words, not at all. All I care about here is the welfare of men.

[normalice]

@msc545 at no point has the idea that you care about women's welfare even hinted at entering my mind 😅

[normalice]

Indeed, I was kind of trying to get you to admit it to yourself. Didn't imagine you'd be proud of it 🤷

[msc545]

Congratulations. That means that your reality testing is still intact.

[msc545]

You haven't been where I've been and you haven't experienced what I have. If you had, you wouldn't be so blase about all this and so willing to pander to women.

[normalice]

@msc545 correct, I have not developed a rage addiction nor a severe case of narcissism, like you redpill ragetards 😅

[msc545]

No, instead you've developed some form of intellectual impairment apparently.

[normalice]

@msc545 I can see why a redpill ragetard might need to think anyone who isn't a redpill ragetard must be the damaged one, sure.

[msc545]

Absolutely - a false accusation can ruin a man's life.

[WhiteBoyChill]

California is retarted. Why shouldn’t a guy falsely accussed be able to?

[FunkyMonkee]

As long as they didn't actually rape anybody.

[AngryCarl2]

This isn't about being innocent until proven guilty, it's about disqualifying credible accusations. So I must respectfully demur.

[BCRanger10]

Yes, they should.

[Dargil]

If there is no conviction, yes.

[In_Trance]

Typical American