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Men and women are completely equal in the USA. Women and become men and vice versa. If this is the case shouldn't women be eligible for the draft and register for selective service? If not why?
Not only should they, the fact that Selective Service is only for males should be challenged in court as a violation of the Equal Protection Clauses of the 5th and 14th Amendments. (*)
However, that might fail because, sexist or not, the US Constitution gives Congress the power to determine the composition of the US military.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 12:
[The Congress shall have Power. . . ] To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; . .
(*) In fact, there were two such cases:
First was Rostker v. Goldberg in 1981. In that case, the US Supreme Court ("SCOTUS") said it was constitutional for Congress to discriminate by sex when they wrote the Military Selective Service Act in 1948.
The second case was National Coalition for Men v. Selective Service System. In a federal District Court in Texas, the Military Selective Service Act was deemed unconstitutional due to discrimination by sex. However, on appeal, the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit (the 5th Circuit includes Texas) reversed the District Court's finding. A writ of certiorari was submitted to the SCOTUS to overturn the 5th Circuit's decision, but the SCOTUS declined to hear the case meaning that what the 5th Circuit decided stands.
(A writ of certiorari aka "cert writ" is a formal request to fix a mistake from a lower court.)
Thus, selective service may continue to discriminate by gender.
Only Congress can fix this per Article I, Section 8, Clause 12. That's pretty much what Associate SCOTUS Justice Sotomayor alluded to in her opinion regarding the denial of the "cert writ".
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-928_new_i4ek.pdf
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
NATIONAL COALITION FOR MEN, ET AL. v.
SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM, ET AL.
ON PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT
No. 20–928. Decided June 7, 2021
The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.
Statement of JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR, with whom JUSTICE BREYER and JUSTICE KAVANAUGH join, respecting the denial of certiorari.
The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the Federal Government from discriminating on the basis of sex absent an “‘exceedingly persuasive justification.’”
...
The Military Selective Service Act requires men, and only men, however, to register for the draft upon turning 18.
...
In Rostker v. Goldberg, 453 U. S. 57 (1981), this Court upheld the Act’s gender-based registration requirement against an equal protection challenge, citing the fact that women were “excluded from combat” roles and hence “would not be needed in the event of a draft.”
The role of women in the military has changed dramatically since then. Beginning in 1991, thousands of women have served with distinction in a wide range of combat
roles, from operating military aircraft and naval vessels to participating in boots-on-the-ground infantry missions.
...
As of 2015, there are no longer any positions in the United States Armed Forces closed to women.
...
Petitioners ask the Court to overrule Rostker in light of these developments.
Petitioners, however, are not the only ones asking whether a male-only registration requirement can be reconciled with the role women can, and already do, play in the modern military. In 2016, Congress created the National Commission on Military, National, and Public Service (NCMNPS) and tasked it with studying whether Selective
Service registration should be conducted “regardless of sex.”
...
On March 25, 2020, the Commission released its final report, in which it recommended “eliminat[ing] male-only registration.”
...
It remains to be seen, of course, whether Congress will end gender-based registration under the Military Selective Service Act. But at least for now, the Court’s longstanding
deference to Congress on matters of national defense and military affairs cautions against granting review while Congress actively weighs the issue. I agree with the Court’s decision to deny the petition for a writ of certiorari.
==============
So, to answer your question "Should women in the USA have to register for Selective Service when they turn 18?", yes they should on equal protection grounds, but that's up to Congress to decide. If this issue really bothers you, start a movement to get Congress to update the Selective Service laws.
The SCOTUS should have heard the National Coalition for Men case, but, as Justice Sotomayor wrote, SCOTUS often defers to Congress. Congress will eventually come around but not as long as the GOP is in power.
Absolutely. It's insane, and likely unconstitutional, to be able to vote without also having to participate in the draft. In fact, it was the draft that got non-land-owning men the right to vote, because originally, only land-owners could vote (and this had been the standard practice anywhere voting was allowed at all).
No one has ever sued the government over this, because they would be destroyed by the politically-correct and blacklisted from their careers, but they would almost certainly win such a case if they ever did, because there is precedent for it.
This is the only intelligent reply. I’ve read on this thread.
Opinion
19Opinion
My answer is yes. And I’m not criticizing your question, but I think it was a mistake to talk about equality. You have people arguing with equality is. You have to keep things simple on this site. You should’ve just asked if women should have to register for the selective service.
Fair point
First off, I don't want any selective service or draft to begin with. A forced army isn't a motivated army. Vietnam War was a disaster while ww2 was nessary defense.
To put it bluntly to have a draft today will basically mean ww3. The bottleneck of human reputation is the 9 mouth pregnancy.
Worst case situation for a male only draft we can bounce back in a decade. Full draft men and women we effectively lost sustainability in the first year without knowing it. South Korea, china, Japan are over that edge without war.
Usa is falling but getting help with imagination. We are dropping below sustainability. We are ultimately the opposite side of the baby boomers on this question.
If you think Vietnam went the way it did because of a lack of a motivated army I suggest you revisit the topic
Both were completely the politicians faults. Tight rules of engagement completely stopped Vietnam. We had the capability to entirely destroy them both times but we wanted hearts and minds and world politics to like us while invading sovereign nations
That's going to be true for any offense war forever. Just like Russian Ukraine war offensive wars eat shit and die.
A draft is going to be defensive. That should never happen but if it does we need to consider what happens after.
Also Rich people like Trump gets bones spurs while all the recruited wifes get fucked by playboys with rich parents.
Russia is actually struggling to advance. Nuclear bombs are really the only way to magically make things disappear. Their air force is out of sorts and ineffective.
Operation linebacker 2 which allowed some airstrikes in Vietnam literally pushed the Vietcong further back in 2 months than the entire war because Congress handicapped our ROE. We win Afghanistan but installing a puppet government isn't simple, legitimate colonialism would've made more sense then what we did, then we just sat there and pulled out. The Taliban hid and we didn't pursue them because of the government ROE trying to train and install the puppet democracy. Our military technology can absolutely dominate but it's politicians who won't allow it.
WW2 there was no eminent threat to the mainland, it was offensive. Vietnam was 100% offensive. Geography alone makes US mainland incredibly difficult to attack, it will be an offensive war
m The US draft system is like 50 years out of date. It should just be scrapped or updated to reflect modern requirements. For every individual on the front line (modern warfare is a tad flexible so FEBA could be anywhere) there are a bunch of support people, these can be girls or guys. Should it be a guy or girl acting as a drone operator, combat medic, EOD, driver, etc, that’s just the army, now add in Navy and Air Force roles.
The real question is does the US draft system meet the needs of modern war fighting requirements?
look at Ukraine which is the closest we have to a modern war that would require a US draft.
I think every high school grad and 18-er should be required to a minimum of 18 months of federal service (includes 6 months residential training, before they are eligible to vote.
A interesting idea but I think you'd be shocked how many of our HS seniors and 18 year olds would be disqualified from any service for so many reasons plus a drug test
Since Biden is likely going to bumble us into Word War 3 soon it is apparent that the government will have to start the draft again since military recruitment has been down since Biden implemented all the DEI stuff in the military and nobody wants to join.
We will need a lot more people serving in the military and that includes women.
Hopefully Biden forces the women to fight on the front lines and the men to do whatever the women would normally be doing. Maybe then women will see how sexist the society they wanted is towards men
I think it will probably pass regardless. Especially if we sleepwalk into open combat with any of the half dozen conflicts that have popped up in the last 2 years. We’re way under recruitment levels. Even with a draft, with how unhealthy young men are, they’ll probably have no choice but to expand the draft. They don’t have to be all combat roles.
Men and women are not equal. Women still only make 80 some cents on the dollar.
Women are losing their right to abort
Shut your mouth, before you start yapping about things you don't know about
The wage gap is literally a myth, it's been proven multiple times. It's based on the differentiation of the types of jobs men and women do. It's illegal to not pay someone the same for the same job based on sex or race.
Abortion was never a right. A judicial precedent does not make something a right, only a federal amendment can make it a right. The Democrats had a house and Senate in there control twice in the last 15 years and never tried to make it so. It's now a state issue, we are a nation of United separate states. It's not a right...
My question was about selective service. Women serve in the military, some in combat roles. Why don't they have to register? I can tell by your comment that you never served...
The wage gap is not a myth
And abortion was a RIGHT. ITS BEING TAKEN AWAY
SHUT YOUR MOUTH, BEFORE YOU CONTINUE TO TALK
Simping won't get you laid, loser.
Yes but ONlY the feminist that want everything “EQUAL”. They want to be equal to men so they should be.
The rest of us that know that we are not equal don’t have to. 😎!
No, because nobody should have to register for Selective Service. The US military is one of the best funded in the world, right? And it's huge. Why would anyone in the US need to be drafted in the foreseeable future?
This isn't a women's rights issue it's a men's rights issue: men shouldn't be forced to register, it should be a choice for everyone.
The “my body my choice” is awfully quiet about selective service
Those without swords can still die upon them. Its everyone's duty to protect their home. Men and women. Women aren't any better or worse with a rifle than a man.
Unpopular opinion: Women should not be in the military
I hate feminists but we do not want Emma with 2 moms stuff in military
If they want to be able to vote in the united states abso-fucking-lutely
Abso-fuckin-lutely. No debate. They're eligible too! It's just registration and should be mandatory.
I think it should be mandatory for all health 18 year olds to serve four years in the service, no questions asked….
They should be required to register or lose their vote.
Equal rights equal opportunity to die for that right.
If they want 'equality' they should have to meet the same conditions that men do
WTF. Who will take care of the kids then, my dad
Selective service is merely a registration. There will be exemptions as there always has been. I'm sure they wouldn't draft 2 parents but I don't see why a 18-25 yo girl with no family is exempt from even registering
But we have 4th wave feminism and we're all equal now. Men can be women and women be men. So why distinguish this in selective service?
I served with lots of competent women. So why not have them register
I don't want girls in war.
@Apple1996 they already are in war. I've served with a lot of them. They are only liabilities in combat roles but that's only a small % of military jobs
@Apple1996 they absolutely do not get special treatment. They have different fitness standards but for non combat roles they have the exact same demands. Most men never see combat either that's a small percentage of jobs.
Did you serve in the military? Because the women I was around had to do what everyone else did
Most women get driven home every 3 days from the field to shower. That's special treatment enough 😂 They get more opportunities for schools and ranking up.
I'm a military spouse so I know a lot about this. I also babysit for a few women that are in the military. They get out early everyday to get their kids. I doubt that would fly with men needing to get out early to get their kid everyday
And a lot of men see combat. Only pog jobs don't get deployed that often so I guess if women wanted to do that but with a draft obviously those Men and women would need to be prepared to get deployed
@Apple1996 men leave to get their kids too that absolutely does fly. Everyone with kids gets special treatment because if they don't they'll just fucking leave the military because their families are more important and our retention and recruiting is already shit. They're more likely to get sick/get infections if they don't shower. I'm sure as hell not advocating for more when in combat roles, that's not the point. Combat roles tho only make up about 10% of our forces and our current deployments are dumb AF. If some administration girl deploys to Kuwait she'll be fine. My point was 100% of men register and 0% of women have to but they still make up about 20% of our force. It's hypocritical of the government was my main point.
That said some of the dumbest and most useless people I've ever met have been men in the military and I've also met some really intelligent women in the military. It goes both ways
@bobby_bush_eater. Women get very special treatment in the military. The newest Virginia fast attack boats had to have a $100M modification to create special spaces for women 😏. What's the result? Women go through all the submariner training, do ONE tour (maybe two at most), than they do anything to get away from it. The Navy accomodates women by giving them a huge variety of schools and post graduate opportunities with accelerated promotions. Men? Well, someone has to crew the fucking boat... so they get stuck.
We can talk about how 65+% of women magically get pregnant when they find out they are scheduled to deploy. 😏😏😏
Brazen statement. Zero facts. Typical.
Our government literally says men and women are equal... What is brazen here?
Since when have we been equal? Lol
Our government says we are. There is literally no obstruction or obstacles that the government or society has for women. If I'm wrong please tell me how
What rights are being taken away?
Name one right that the state gives me that it doesn't give you. Go on, I'll wait.
@DextroShade men have rights to all healthcare while women do not.
You need to be specific, what right to healthcare do I have that you do not?
Nope
Would be horrible
What's the reasoning? Our society says we're equal. Women already serve in the military I've worked with man of them.
Because the scenario they would be needed is a draft. Ok let’s set this up, the USA goes to war and needs to start drafting bodies for our military. Right now the young men would be drafted and be those bodies.
But now you are suggesting that we also need to draft young women? Well in that case who is left on the domestic front.. who is working in the factories and raising the children? You have drafted all the young men and now are forcing women to go and die in war.
My reasoning has nothing to do with the red or blue or black pills you want to take. I’m being practical that we don’t need women available to be serving as we need people at home.
Plus you just made my case. Currently women volunteer to serve in the military and should we have a war soon you would see many enter the military as you would see men volunteer
So you think when should be at home raising children. That's sexist. The government wouldn't draft both the father and mother but with our declining birth rate more and more women especially young women will be sight and ready to serve
You do realize there are also a lot of circumstantial allowances to not be drafted for men. The same would apply to women
I realize it. And I gave you a good answer when women shouldn’t be required to register
Why shouldn't a single 18 year old girl who is not in college have to register? What reason?
Because the system doesn’t need her for a draft. I already explained in my initial answer when we have a draft the men are the bodies that will go and die
Also stop asking other people who answered your question if men and women are equal. You already said your question is about the selective service. You are not asking about equality
You also have clearly never served and fail to realize what a small percentage of military jobs are combat roles and that with technological advances that % for a country as advanced as the USA that continues to shrink.
You described men drafted as bodies who will go die... That is as ignorant as it gets
People have literally said but we're not equal and the basis of the question is that the USA government says we are equal. Put your blind liberalism aside for a minute 🤡
Ok one last try sir. You have twice noted that the military doesn’t need extra people, both when you said that women currently serve and by correctly saying the % of combat roles are shrinking. Both of those points suggest the only time a draft is required is when additional bodies are needed.. not bodies to just go die but human beings to be forced into military service.
My entire answer was the only time a draft is needed is when the USA enters a war. We are not in a draft now. Should we need to draft we would draft young men. No need to draft young women.
I assumed you asked your question in good faith and it wasn’t a way to go down the red pill hole and complain how women have no obstructions in society. Frankly the moment I saw your say this I better understand the reason you asked the question and you are not asking in good faith.
Finally I want to thank you for your service. God bless you. As a registered Republican I’m not happy when the military is dissed in the USA.
Peace
As a veteran who has seen combat I don't understand the hypocrisy perpetuated in every facet of this country. Are men and women equal or not? I asked this question with the hopes that I could see both sides and actually get an argument based in facts.
I am not red pill, I think red pill is just as damaging to men as 4th wave feminism is to women. If young men grow up in that ideology they will harm society. I am pro accountability, anti hypocrisy and anti degeneracy.
Yes there is no draft right now, so why not have women register for selective service is the point. There are a ton of exceptions to the draft and I'd imagine those are going to be expanded even more if/when the next draft takes place. Mother's and father's would not be drafted together just as men in many factory roles and police officers weren't in the past. Combat roles themselves are a smaller percentage but roles contributing to combat are growing faster than ever. Selective Service is there in case we are under eminent threat. Do I support how it's been used in the past, not necessarily but if the US is invaded why should 100% of women be absolved from being drafted? What makes them that much different? We are in a era of pure equality yet the society hangs on to traditional norms only when it's convenient. I'm asking why is this the case when it comes to war? If we're equal why is 100% of young men on the table but 0% of young women?
I admit I have come off as hostile in my argument and for that I apologize.
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