In your opinion, has Macron made the situation in Ukraine and what is happening with Russia a personal matter?

[Julie4]

Someone who is reputed to be quite serious wrote this after Macron's statements authorizing Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory to target military targets

"What a positive difference can offended ambitions make. By pushing France out of Africa, Putin hurt Macron's pride. And for the French president it is now personal, not just business "

[nightdrot]

Well, there is no way to judge if it is personal. Such things are of their nature private and it can only be speculated to what degree President Macron's motivations are personal.

That said, not really the point. There is a certain geopolitical logic to President Macron's words and actions and this is what predominates. It is what allows him to forge a consensus among at least some portion of France's policymakers and political actors and to put that consensus into action.

Were President Macron's actions strictly personal, it is unlikely that he would be able to generate coherent policies and, as I say, forge a consensus among policymakers, foreign leaders (to the extent that he has), and the French public as a whole. He would simply thrash about and gradually lose the backing of even his closest supporters.

Has it become "personal" for President Macron. Perhaps it has and this leaves open a greater possibility of error in the articulation and execution of his foreign and defense policies. There is an irreducible element of the "personal" in any government - though ironically more in dictatorships than in democracies. The former, of their nature, being rooted in the thoughts and actions of the dictator.

The bottom line is that there may be a personal element in President Macron's policies. However, at the end of the day, Macron is - and will be - constrained in the creation and articulation of his policies and this will, of its' nature, make his policies more than mere expressions of personal bias.

[Julie4]

Clearly for me it's not personal because firstly Russia has long been trying to act in Africa where France had influence. And yet that hasn't stopped Macron from trying to maintain a dialogue with Putin.

What's more, even with Napoleon, France tried to keep Russia as far away from Europe as possible.

On the subject of the Ukraine in particular, Napoleon wanted to create an independent state, whose investiture he reserved for himself, and which would have included almost all the territories of contemporary Soviet Ukraine:

This state," declared d'Hauterive, inspired by Talleyrand, "would constitute one of the strongest barriers to Russia's ambitious projects and its claims on the Black Sea and the Bosphorus... Rejected forever from the Black Sea, Russia would then be forced to abandon its ill-digested plans for conquest, invasion and usurpation of every kind.

It's not just a question of politics. In Napoleon's plans, Ukraine becomes a supplier and a customer of France. It sells France its wheat, oil, leather and horses, and buys its manufactured goods and wines. And all our foreign ministers in the 18th century had dreamed of intensifying French trade in the Black Sea by seeking outlets in the Ukraine.

My point here is that Macron's actions are not far removed from what French politics has always been.

[nightdrot]

Your last point is exactly right and was my point. Saying that President Macron's actions are "personal" trivializes them and makes them seem a mere exercise in vanity. Rather, as you RIGHTLY note, President Macron's policies have their roots in the geopolitical logic of history.

That is not to say that perhaps there is not a personal element in all that. It would not doubt be a source of pride for Macron to find himself compared with Napoleon. (Though heaven knows why!! Okay, that was a joke.)

However, to whatever extent Macron's actions are merely personal, it is neither relevant nor fully knowable. The bottom line being that any objective analysis of his actions suggests that they are rooted in France's history and national interests.

[Julie4]

I completely agree with you. I hope you and your family are well. 😊

[RavVid]

Could be. At least real politik tries to take the personal out of the equation but I don't think it can entirely. Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" was guttural but also very realistic politics.

Macron, from half the world away, seems to be of the opinion now that Putin/Russia won't stop. On New Caledonia I posted Zeihan's take of the rebellion being sponsored by Azerbaijan. Russia has certainly intruded in Africa.

There is a thin line between contretempts and Churchillian. Even Macron might not know how much Macron and how much France is in decision making. I doubt the source's ability to to judge as it depends on their geopol as it will for us all.

[Anonymous]

Well it no different than the us supplying the mujahadeen anti tank and stinger missles in the 80s in soviet-afgan war over the Soviet Union supplying north Vietnam in the Vietnam war or the Soviet Union installing nuclear missles in Cuba to force the us to get their nuclear missles out of Turkey.

The us and nato is supplying Ukraine so the next war the us fights the Russians will supply arms to us enemies. Imagine how bad the casualties would have been if the Russians had been supplying the taliban, alqueda, isis or Iraqis.

[DryGermanGuy]

I would say, Macron just sees Putinist Russia as for what they are - a malevolent actor that sows destruction, chaos and discontent everywhere. So they only understand the language of force. Other countries will follow France‘s example.