If a fetus is a baby according to pro-lifers, why doesn't child support start at conception?

[chocolatetwopointo]

[OlofssonBengtsson]

The pro-lifers never cared about the woman or the child. If the kid is going to be born handicapped and will only be able to count up to 7 by age 14 they will tell the parent they will just need to endure and raise the child. The child will need to be cared for the rest of their life and suffer, but they don't care about that. Once the parent dies the child won't be able to care for itself.

They want people to suffer needlessly. If a girl is raped and is forced to have her rapist's child the pro-lifers will force her to do it. And a lot of times the girl will get a self-abort with a hanger and bleed out and die or never be able to have children again. The people who ban abortion are going to be in for a rude awakening when their wife dies or becomes infertile from pregnancy complications.

Most people who are Pro-life don't have any children and want to make decisions for other people based on dogmas or beliefs not backed by science or lived experiences. So it's mostly bullshit that comes out of their mouth they don't understand the people that they want to impose their rules onto contextually and just want everyone to follow their beliefs.

I wouldn't take anything they say seriously. They complain about people being on welfare and would prefer someone to have a child who is completely disabled and unable to work who will end up on welfare or social services. They act against their own interest.

[uncleBobbyb77]

Life is measurable by gauging brain function, and brain damage until there is brain death. Once there is any type of brain function in that tiny little baby fetus it's a human being with its own rights and the mother whether she wishes them or not does have certain responsibilities and duties to fulfill and chief amongst those is doing everything she can to insure the survival of that life given by and of The Holy Spirit. Once it's born you can give it up for adoption if you want. While it may be your body, your choice it's still murder and you will have a tremendous karmic debt/cost to abort it

[SnowyOwl]

Maybe you have a point and child support start at conception or whatever ensures both parties are equally responsible for what they've created.

The key word here is responsible

Fyi, I don't care where you're from, but here's the proof you talk about thinking. "It's not all about America"...

[SnowyOwl]

Without* thinking

[chocolatetwopointo]

do yk how to change that?

[SnowyOwl]

Go to 'profile summary ' and edit

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok thanks ill fix it

[Potteplante]

Because that would effect males and their lives and that matters. They'd be faced with the consequences of impregnating a woman from day 1, just like women are faced with it from day 1.

[BarryLiverstone]

True that’s what I am trying to explain to the asker. And if the woman had sex with someone other than her partner it affects all 3 adults.

[chocolatetwopointo]

@BarryLiverstone we’ve already talked about it, DNA tests.

[BarryLiverstone]

It’s much more than dns tests obv

[chocolatetwopointo]

like what!

[ChicoFromThe305]

If unborns aren't babies then why does someone that kills a pregnant woman get charged for two homicides in most parts of the US?

Also child support doesn't start when it's in the womb because the child is supported from the mother, until the child is born there's no additional expenses, unless a pregnant woman is putting their stomach in a cradle or the woman is wearing the diapers, or sitting in the baby chair, child support money isn't necessary until the bay is born, that doesn't mean it's not a baby tho.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Now tell me how child support not being necessary for an unborn baby create a valid foundation to the argument that a fetus isn't a baby?😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

but the fetus takes energy and needs energy from the woman, meaning the woman needs more energy (food)

[chocolatetwopointo]

bc if it is a baby, why doesn't child support start at conception?

[ChicoFromThe305]

Exactly so you know the reality of it and deep down you know it's a baby, it's a decent idea but it will most likely get abused and let's not forget it's still uncertain if the child will be aborted, imagine a woman gets child support and aborts the child, there's many things wrong with that idea so it doesn't proof anything when it comes to your argument but you kinda proved mine 😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

what? no its a fetus? there probably wouldn't be as much child support as it is for an actual baby, and u can only get an abortion under a short time.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Yea I know, if it was legal to get at any time, y'all would still do it, it's not that it's not a child, actually even if it was legal and socially acceptable to even kill a newborn, y'all would still do it, i have a feeling its never been about the confusion about it being a baby or not, I'm pretty certain even if somehow studies found evidence of fetuses being babies, y'all would still abort them

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah id totally do it. but its the law ig.

[SnowyOwl]

But @chocolatetwopointo, your argument is true for a healthy baby/foetus as well. A mom will need food regardless of how the baby is

[SnowyOwl]

In line with @ChicoFromThe305 , people who put down a life don't understand that challenges are a part of life, a part of growth as human beings.. but no, killing the 'challenge' is 'easier', right? You can't make that choice and say you have empathy... It's the same for killing stray dogs... 'nobody wants them', so they should just be killed? Like I said, no empathy, no emotional strength nor resilience

[SnowyOwl]

It's the lack of empathy, and emotional maturity that leads to murder... To put down a life is murder

[ChicoFromThe305]

Exactly even if that life is prematured life, knowing it will be a person even if it isn't yet technically a fully developed person doesn't change the fact that it will be a person and that you destroyed the chances of that baby ever reaching that point.

[chocolatetwopointo]

@SnowyOwl under a pregnancy the mother needs more energy and food so the fetus can develop healthy. the difference is its not js a challange, not everyone can afford it, not everybody is meant to be parents, then ig i have no empathy bc id chose myself over some clump of cells. so you’d rather want that child to grow up in a broken home? why do you care more about a fetus over an already alive woman? an already alive woman is 100% more important than a fetus.

[SnowyOwl]

@chocolatetwopointoIf it's so hard that you would have to kill a living creature because you could not afford to have a baby, the responsible and reasonable thing to do would be not getting pregnant in the first place. Abortion is practiced until 23 weeks of the foetus in most places. Look it up, it's not just a clump of cells. It is a living being that is being fed and developed.

Abortions take resources, they are expensive, wether it's paid privately or publicly. Be responsible and don't let it get that far if money worries you that much. You're young, you should enjoy life right now and not stress about these things, you will have so much to stress about as an adult

[chocolatetwopointo]

well mistakes happen. now. why do u care more ab a fetus over an alr alive woman? yes its a clump of cells. yeah thats also one of the reasons women can't get abortions. what does this have to do with me exactly? ill wait.

[SnowyOwl]

@chocolatetwopointo you're right, mistakes happen and people who make those 'mistakes' should pay for them, not everyone else, otherwise how do they learn? by the way abortion is available on cases of crime, or life of the mother being at risk. For other reasons, it should never be covered by public health, otherwise governments would go bankrupt faster..

No need to take any of this personal by the way. Just think of all the things you might be missing time on for wasting time and energy on this topic that is stressful.
You don't need to worry because your rights are still available for when you need them. Other than that just be responsible and you'll be fine.
You won't be sixteen again, so do the things that will make your life happier not more stressful. Did you ever think of doing a semester of school abroad? You won't be able to do that as an adult that will have to work..
Anyways, that's all I need to say. Good luck to you girl

[chocolatetwopointo]

wdym everyone else? a woman having an abortion doesn't effect you or anyone else. this isn't stressful? if this is stressful to u I don't know what to say lmao. and what will make me happier? have sex and get 10 abortions? sounds nice to me. if i go abroud id have to do the year where i live again, so no. and i can always move jobs to another country. i dont understand what this has to do with abortions girl

[SnowyOwl]

And that's why I won't argue with child

[SnowyOwl]

@ChicoFromThe305 I apologize for all the notifications you must have gotten 😅😅🙏

[ChicoFromThe305]

It's all good I wasn't very active on here yesterday anyways lol

[chocolatetwopointo]

so u won't answer my questions? typical.

[ChicoFromThe305]

It's cause you are slow, you ignore most of people's questions and miss the point of what people are trying to tell you, a dog has the ability to understand more than you 😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

nope js answer abd ur fine

[ChicoFromThe305]

For what? So you can avoid the person's point, maybe when you get older you'll understand how that's a waste of time

[chocolatetwopointo]

im not tho, yeah it sure is a waste of time to argue with people who prefer fetuses over alive women.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I prefer both, unlike some people, you clearly have to rely on ignorance because you have no valid argument

[chocolatetwopointo]

you dont tho, if u support abortion u only care for the fetus.

[ChicoFromThe305]

No that's not what it means, it means I care for the fetus as well, the woman is already living and breathing, the fetus can as well

[chocolatetwopointo]

so you’d chose the woman if there would be a problem with the pregnancy or birth?

[ChicoFromThe305]

By problem you mean what exactly be cause the fetus existing is a problem to you, if there was an issue where her life depended on it then logically I'd want the woman to live but that's if there's no option tho

[chocolatetwopointo]

when did i say the fetus existing is a problem lmao?💀 so you’d still want her to suffer bc of smth men shouldn't have a say for?

[ChicoFromThe305]

That's your whole argument, don't act dumb now lol, giving birth is a part of life and let's be fair, a main purpose for a woman is to reproduce, women were giving the baby oven so they can keep humanity alive, so suffering for a few minutes is a noble sacrifice to bring life into the world, suffering is actually a part of life, its why happiness is a thing because without pain and suffering there's no joy and happiness, besides giving birth is actually described as worth it it most of the women that have experienced it, I think you are just too young to properly comprehend the idea of it all and even the importance

[chocolatetwopointo]

my whole argument is women should be able to have a choice. not everybody wants or needs kids. and here the men go again. id kms if i first had to suffer for hours and months through pregnancy and giving birth AND having to suffer for even 18 more years. then why dont men suffer? ill never want to give birth lmfao r u retarded? they say that bc they want kids, i dont.

[SnowyOwl]

@chocolatetwopointo if you wanna get an abortion and you don't wanna pay, how do you think that works? If the public system pays it, it means that everyone pays it through their taxes. That's why you have the choice to make mistakes and you also should take accountability for the price to pay. You can't ask everyone else to pay for your mistakes with their taxes, because if everyone did that, and people are stupid and will act like there's no repercussions so that means there would be way too many abortions if it was covered by public funds... our taxes will be super high because of people like you who say they want to get 10 abortions. So expect also that people will get mad at you if you act like you don't care.

And yes, it's your choice. Own up the repercussions.

[ChicoFromThe305]

If you had your fun you should raise the chum, it's simple, you fucked your way in that situation then you make the right choice and give birth to the child, the baby shouldn't be the one to pay the consequences for the mother's lack of simple responsibilities to use protection or just using their body to have fun, with all due respect it's your body but there being another life on the line, it shouldn't be just your choice because you are no longer making decisions that only effect you, I'm sure there's women that can't have kids that wish they had your reproductive system, men suffer with other things that isn't birth but they will be the ones to financially support the child by having to work for at least 18 years to raise the child, and same goes for them, you had you fun now raise the chum, get your ass to work and pay them bills even if it requires sacrificing your happiness or it requires sufferment, shit isn't sweet out here, i believe women should give birth and men should financially raise and support the child, if you think I'm saying only women should be responsible then i wasn't specific enough

[chocolatetwopointo]

in my country i wouldn't have to pay for an abortion thats stupid. yup everybody chips in basically. everybody pays taxes tho, otherwise we’d be like america. thats not how it works tho lmao. taxes aren't super high where i live and we’re doing perfectly fine. i was sarcastic💀 yes i will chose to not have a baby and never to have sex in my life

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah thats why ill never have sex lmao bc no protection is 100% and id kms if i got pregnant. the fetus doesn't even know it exists when its aborted? and its basically a parasite. why shouldn't it js be my choice? okay? and how is it my problem others can't have kids? that doesn't mean i should have any. nope women work too nowadays, surprise its not the 1950s anymore!! id alr pay bills tho? ok so women are birth machines and men can do wtv they want? healthy mindset.. and ofc its coming from a man. but a man can leave without basically any concequence, its easy to not pay child support or get in any trouble for it.

[SnowyOwl]

@chocolatetwopointo your profile says you're in the USA but I guess that's a lie? If you're in Canada, no need to lie either, our taxes are of the highest... The last thing I'd wanna do is waste more money on someone's irresponsible way of living.
You think we owe people abortions? We don't. That's extremely selfish. You say "chip in" as if it's nothing.

Guess what I could pay 0 dollars for all you abortions, because guess what your problems are not my problems, and I will never pay for you or anyone to be problematic.

That way of thinking is insane

[ChicoFromThe305]

It means you are a waste of a reproductive system is my point there and it might not be aware but knowing that if he did have the self awareness you know his choice would be to live, men can't do whatever they want, they keep it in their pants if they can't handle the responsibility, you clearly didn't read everything i said and this is why people ignore your dumb questions, read what I said, I'm not repeating myself

[chocolatetwopointo]

I don't know where y'all r seeing that im from the us. im from sweden. LMFAO OKAY HAHAHA. not everythings about america yk. why are u against ur own rights? bc paying taxes is nothing u lazy ass. ok then dont? u do realise taxes also go to education and stuff right? and to medical health. HAHHA okay so how am i insane again?

[chocolatetwopointo]

ah okay so ur gna have a stay at home wife. make 6 figures? right? men can do wtv they want bffr, men leave kids MUCH more then women do BFFR.

[SnowyOwl]

@chocolatetwopointo yes please don't have sex especially not with an irresponsible guy
You're right, it shouldn't be just the girl's problem, the guy is equally responsible to pay if they both choose to get an abortion.
The two people involved in the problem should pay, and no one else. Because they created the problem, and they decide to proceed with abortion.

No one else should be punished

[ChicoFromThe305]

Her point isn't she doesn't want to pay taxes, her point is she doesn't want to pay taxes for your stupid abortions, clearly she disagrees with the killing of babies and having to pay for them is the issue as well, my plan if to make more than 6 figures, I have left that work rat mentality a long time ago, I'm starting to think your brain lacks the ability to reason or to understand.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yup, good that u agree, ill never have sex. as i said, taxes dont only go to abortions, i was going to call u normal but i took it back.

[SnowyOwl]

@ChicoFromThe305 critical thinking is not taught in school these days anymore 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[chocolatetwopointo]

as I've said to her, taxes isn't only for abortions. what r u on ab now? and how’s that plan going out for you?

[ChicoFromThe305]

Apparently not, and if it is, this one isn't the brightest bulb in the shed lol

[chocolatetwopointo]

LMFAO ur literally advocating against ur own rights and talking ab critical thinking💀

[chocolatetwopointo]

god i hope none of y'all become parents, id call cps the moment they were born

[ChicoFromThe305]

That plan is slow but smooth, making my own schedule is comfortable, please reread, geez, you make yourself look stupid the more you talk, we covered the taxes part, clear as day.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Those rights shouldn't have existed in the first place, they are inhumane, literally cause you are killing humans

[chocolatetwopointo]

u only said ur plan was to make more than 6 figures. id love to hear how.

[chocolatetwopointo]

omfg, and when its a child?

[ChicoFromThe305]

It's a ladder plan you'll most likely not comprehend, you have complications reading simple sentences, if you think Im going to explain to you my plans, that wouldn't be a smart move on my part.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ah so u dont have one? got it.

[ChicoFromThe305]

What? 😂

Did you forget the topic already 😂😂

[SnowyOwl]

Read this back when you're an adult, you make no sense right now and you think insulting people gives you validity. @chocolatetwopointo that's being delusional, a lot of kids your age suffer from this right now. But you can grow up if you try

[chocolatetwopointo]

u literally talked about abortions r u this fkn slow?

[chocolatetwopointo]

nope im making full sense. i really hope both of u change, its seriously not good to think like this.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I do and if you look in my profile and use some brain cells you'll be able to maybe put together what step one is, i dont have to lie to children, id get nothing out of it, you believe what you want

[SnowyOwl]

I'm not looking for your approval anyways

[ChicoFromThe305]

Momma failed with this one ngl 😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

im not gna waste my time looking through some rich dude wanna be’s profile💀 when did i say u have to lie to kids? r u like mentally okay?

[chocolatetwopointo]

says the one who says women are baby machines.. y'all cannot be serious rn💀

[ChicoFromThe305]

I'm perfectly fine mentally, the one that looks like is about to burst a vein is you 😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

how exactly?

[ChicoFromThe305]

You said women are baby machines I just said women should use their reproductive system, how that mush of yours you call a brain receives information is your problem, not mine

[chocolatetwopointo]

you said women are baby machines lmao, and said that women who dont have kids are wasting it. thats not a healthy mindset.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I've made all my points across already, it's not my fault you can't comprehend simple literature, all I know is that when someone starts to result in insults and offensive behavior it shows they have no proper information to back their pathetic claims so it results in immature replies that show ignorance and stupidity

[ChicoFromThe305]

I will say, winning a discussion against a child isn't my proudest win 😂

[SnowyOwl]

@ChicoFromThe305 I still wanna give her the benefit of doubt she is pretty youuung. She could improve. One thing's for sure, I need to stop encouraging these bulshit conversations that make them reaffirm their incorrect stances.. so I'm done here. Have a nice day 😅

[chocolatetwopointo]

oh my fucking god. so i should become a woman-hater? there's no way im gna become as fucked up as u two are, there's no going back. come back to this when ur older and ur asking urself why ur kids dont visit u.

[ChicoFromThe305]

So I'm a woman hater because I think killing babies is wrong? Sounds to me like you have issues with accepting responsibilities

[chocolatetwopointo]

omfg, so u have js been ignoring everything i said? holy shit. pro lifers really r retarded.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I only way to successfully deal with ignorance is by ignoring it, it's even in the name as you can see, it's not my fault your replies go off topic Everytime you open your yap

[chocolatetwopointo]

yet ur responding

[ChicoFromThe305]

Of course, it's my comment and you are still talking on my comment so I respond, I just ignore your ignorance not you, I give your ignorance no power so you basically remain speechless lol

[chocolatetwopointo]

nope now ur js talking sexist bs

[ChicoFromThe305]

No I'm not

[chocolatetwopointo]

yup lol

[ChicoFromThe305]

Nah lol

[Potteplante]

@ChicoFromThe305 Did you just call a 16 year old a waste of space because they disagree with you? You even further more call her dumber than and animal AND then you start throw this in

"I know is that when someone starts to result in insults and offensive behavior it shows they have no proper information to back their pathetic claims"
What the actual fuck Murican. Guess you forgot to look in the mirror there.

[ChicoFromThe305]

No this 16 year old is just dumb, reread it all, cause I'm starting to think the 16 year old isn't the only one that lacks brain cells, I'm only saying what I see and if I'm saying something and they lack the ability to comprehend it that is known as slow, which I know you might be too sensitive to absorb this information but no sugarcoating it means they are dumb, I say what I see and I've made very valid points here and they reply with ignorance which shows low intelligence, now reading what you are saying, you not being able to mind your business means you are nosey, then I see you failed to spell the word American which shows illiteracy which again points to low intelligence, I can look at a mirror all day long but it won't change the evidence and proof of the low intelligence in this public chat, what I said is true because as far as I've seen here not only did she lack to support her argument but her replies eventually started to curve to other topics and ignorance when i tried several times to curve it back to the original topic, now point to me where i said she was a waste of space because it sounds to me like you are most likely exaggerating something I said and twisted it to your own meaning just to try to get leverage here, let's also not forget I backed my claims fully and stated several times why I believe my opinion is good.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Also let's be foreal if someone gets offensive first than anyone with a brain should assume they will receive the same back, anything I said I could have made it far more offensive than how it came out, it's a good thing I know how to bite my tongue or this conversation would have ended a lot quicker, instead of pampering this behavior you should act your age and not act like a total buffoon by acting blind to the escalation here because clearly it was all respectful until she started to smart mouth, I can do it too just a lot better because mine comes from facts rather than ignorance.

[NewWaves]

Fœtus is a stage of development of a human being. It's not ever going to turn into anything other than a human being.
And that's a great question. Something to look at with local governance.
I did learn that in the States in the olden days - someone correct me if I'm wrong - following British law, the fetus was already recognized by law in case of inheritance (especially when a boy). Meaning that if the father dies during the mother's pregnancy, then the father could will his possessions and assets to the unborn child or that it was automatic or something like that.

[lightbulb27]

boom chuck a lucka...

It should. Start a child... start a college fund and electronic devices fund...

and god forbid one of the cases where things go wrong and child needs lifetime of support.

Frankly, if before engaging in such acts of lustful desperation, most people signed a contract for the possible outcome, it would prevent a lot of problems. Right?

[chocolatetwopointo]

whats ur point?

[lightbulb27]

seems clear to me, don't know how to clarify.

[chocolatetwopointo]

once again, whats ur point?

[lightbulb27]

it should start after conception.
to avoid creationg conception, put in place standards... like once existed... to reduce cases of decisioning life.
saves a lot of trouble, beneficial for the children

win win
the real challenge is adults... responsibliity.. consequences.

[SnowyOwl]

Absolutely right. People wanna act irresponsibly and pretend there shouldn't be consequences.
Be responsible and you won't need to complaint.

[lightbulb27]

@SnowyOwl yes, responsibility and consequences needs taught, that's the reasons for all of the learnings passed on generations. The rest is luck and good fortunes.

[Anonymous]

Obviously because, while the child is in the womb, the mother doesn't have to buy food and clothes for the child, nor pay extra for shelter, nor educational costs. That does not mean, however that a fetus is not a human being!

Let me ask you this: Suppose you're wrong! Just suppose that all those who deny that a fetus is a child and that, therefore, killing one is not murder, just suppose they all are wrong! That means that every woman who ever had an elective abortion, and every abortionist who ever performed one, are all guilty of murder! THAT is a heavy concept. THAT is one heavy burden for someone to carry around for the rest of their lives! I won't go into all the possible ramifications of that here. But you can figure those out. I think it's outrageous for women to demand control "over my own body" when it's NOT ONLY THAT WOMAN'S BODY at issue! There may very well be another person involved whom this woman doesn't feel like acknowledging!

[LiamS95]

Probably because the mother supplies the fetus with all of it's needs at that point. and of course a responsible mother should or would be in a supporting monogamous relationship by that point in time.

[chocolatetwopointo]

the mother and fetus basically share resources, so maybe they could give child support for her, to afford more food so the fetus also gets more energy

[FoxnEagle]

"If you put cake batter in the oven, why doesn't it need a refrigerator to keep it from spoiling?"

If the woman chose right, she will be getting support from him already and they will be planning for the child.

[chocolatetwopointo]

kids aren't always planned tho

[SnowyOwl]

If you're engaging in sex, you should have accepted the possibility of having a child. It's irresponsible to believe sex wouldn't or shouldn't result in child birth. It's literally why we are designed to like sex, so that the species reproduces and stays alive.

Accept reality, no one made it up

[chocolatetwopointo]

yh thats why I've told u ill never have sex

[SixFootSexy]

That's a silly question, because the mother is 100% of the baby's shelter and feeding. However, it's not 100% of her DNA or the father's, but an entirely new entity.

If you can read this, thank your mom for being prolife.

[NaultD]

Dangerous argument. These people don't treat women as people to begin with. Like a runaway dog that needs to be kick around more.

Even in the Bible there was bitter waters as a test of adultery and forcing an abortion. No different then witch trials for having education.

[Juxtapose]

Yeah if you start implementing stuff like this, good luck getting the population numbers up. Men are going to be even more turned off towards fatherhood.

The baby isn't even out yet and the guy has to pay more just because the girl is more hungry? Come on man, that's fucking absurd.

[Juxtapose]

Oh and also pro-lifers are stupid and their philosophies would result in an entire generation of men getting sterilized to avoid financial troubles.

[SnowyOwl]

It makes sense that while pregnant the mother won't work as much, so the man you support her. After all, the child is 50 50 responsibility since they both took part in it equally.

Because in nature the mother nurtures the baby directly and is consumed by the task, the father has to provide for the mom and the child. It's nature, it's what humans do for the success of their offspring

[Juxtapose]

@SnowyOwl she has complete control over the pregnancy and can terminate it anytime she wants. The man does not get that same privilege. If you can kill the damn thing, I can abandon it.

[SnowyOwl]

Ah ok, in the case scenario where everyone is irresponsible.. sure. Let's just abort everytime cuz "she never wanted children" while every guy who impregnated her just deserts her... What a lovely existence 🤢
Who's paying for these abortions by the way? Don't tell me it's public funds, I sure do not pay taxes for irresponsible people's mistakes

[Juxtapose]

@SnowyOwl well women should shoulder the cost since men don't have a choice in the abortion either way.

Plan B is only $50 though so if you catch it early you are fine. You can get it at Walmart.

[Juxtapose]

Although if inflation it may be a bit more but either way, you get what I mean.

[Juxtapose]

*with inflation

[SnowyOwl]

Costs will be shared for sure. I believe in families having a family account managed by both parents anyways.
But in the time the woman is pregnant and can't work and when the child is just born and she's on maternity leave to take care of the baby, the dad has to compensate for that period of time in other aspects where the mom can't be present.
It's just a period we're responsibilities are reorganized that's all.

And as crazy as it sounds, plan b is surely way more responsible than needing a week 13 abortion 😅🤦🏻‍♀️

I will never comply to that level of irresponsibility, that's crazy

[Juxtapose]

@SnowyOwl oh I would never want to share my money with anyone. Financial accounts should be firmly separate and different bills can be allocated just like different chores in the house can be allocated.

I just don't want somebody being charged child support when the damn thing isn't even born yet.

[SnowyOwl]

Mhm, but it's just not what building a family is about :/ a family is a support unit, and the parents are equals they shouldn't act selfish when it comes to being responsible towards their family

[Juxtapose]

I still have a right to control my own finances and she could trust me to pay what I agree to pay. Bills should be roughly split in half.

[SnowyOwl]

Sure you have the right to do anything. But when you say bills should be split in half you're assuming you're making more than her, aren't you?
Because the other way around, if she makes more, then you would probably want bills to be proportional, right? 😜 That's the essence of selfishness.
To build a healthy family, both parents should agree that they are in charge of the success of the family, and that does imply combining resources. It also implies allocating resources where they are needed.
If the mom needs self care, then we invest in it, and if the dad needs self care then we invest in it..

You shouldn't be afraid that you're getting 'scammed' when you're investing in the wellbeing of your family as a whole. That's not a healthy mentality for fostering success in a family. And if you think like that you don't truly understand what the goal family as a support unit is.

If you don't want a family, then sure, be selfish with your resources and you should be fine

[Juxtapose]

No I am not assuming that, that is you assuming that. I actually don't make a lot of money. I can see what you were trying to get at and it's a cute attempt, but you don't know me at all and it shows.

If I decide to have a family with a woman her and I will be deciding what to do, not you. There are plenty of couples that manage their finances just fine and I think she should have the right to manage her money just as I have the right to manage mine. What if she was a millionaire? Why would she want me touching her money that is not mine? That's stupid.

[SnowyOwl]

Yes sorry, wasn't trying to make it personal.. but you get that it's a common mentality and that it doesn't foster success, especially not in terms of emotional support. That's why money is the direct or indirect cause of most divorces.

That's funny how you wanna go to an extreme to "make a point". Of course most people aren't millionaires 🙄 so it's pretty much irrelevant

[Juxtapose]

@SnowyOwl I have never had to merge my finances with somebody else's and I certainly do not plan to. I can split the bills with other people just fine without having a single account together.

Of course I used that extreme, because you tried to assume I made more money when I really don't. And to illustrate that point further, I pointed out that a millionaire woman would be stupid to merge her account with mine.

[SnowyOwl]

With that reasoning you miss the point. It's not most people that will have millions in their bank.
And why would you be with someone anyways if you were afraid of them taking your money. Choose someone you trust 🤯

The point was do what it takes to act as a team, because that ensures success in the long run.

[Juxtapose]

@SnowyOwl I still don't see why I can't be a team with someone while having my own finances. That's kind of ridiculous to imply otherwise.

[alice55]

Be logical for one second the baby doesn't need clothes if he's in the belly of the mother, also ask yourself why are people in favor of killing innocent children but against killing criminals, rapist, killer etc.. ?

[Kelley1]

Either way, child support is not relevant to the belief of when a person is defined as a baby.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why do you think that?

[jahaims]

Common sense

[midnightmoon05]

If one is married, spouse are the one to support one another…

girls want to have fun and not the responsibilities why should any guy take her serious… ?

[chocolatetwopointo]

what does that have to do with anything?

[midnightmoon05]

I knew you would say that.
But know you are smart enough to know what I am saying.

[chocolatetwopointo]

if i asked i want an answer.

[midnightmoon05]

There are lots of great answers. But you want someone to say what you want to hear. Typical entitled behavior.

[chocolatetwopointo]

nope?

[Apple1996]

I'm not even pro life but child support should start right away and the dad should have to pay for all that maternity care/hosptial bills

[chocolatetwopointo]

why would that make u pro life?

[Apple1996]

It doesn't lol I was just making it clear that I'm not

[Avicenna]

Some women don’t know who knocked them up. How will the right one be located?

[Apple1996]

@Avicenna if multiple men are involved then they should all pay. That's what they get for not sleeping with a trustworthy woman

[Avicenna]

That’s a nice little scam. How will she prove who had sex with her, or will she be taken at her word when she claims to have had sex with five billionaires?

[Apple1996]

@Avicenna has nothing to do with her. These men need to pick better women and not be such sluts giving out creampies so freely

[Apple1996]

@Avicenna men need to learn to keep their dickholes closed

[Avicenna]

It takes two to tango- you of all people know that

[Apple1996]

@Avicenna sure but men can control their sperm. Women cannot control their eggs so it's mens problem if he chooses to impregnate her

[Avicenna]

She can control who has sex with her and can use birth control.

[chocolatetwopointo]

dna tests, not if she's raped. do you not know the side effets of birth control?

[Juxtapose]

So just because a guy fucks a slut for one night and she gets pregnant by someone else, he should be put on the hook for that? And there's tons of other instances of misandry being displayed here.

[Juxtapose]

And why should a man have to pay for all the hospital bills? It's as if you are treating women like they are children who have no agency or responsibility.

[Juxtapose]

If I had to pay for somebody like that, I would consider them my bitch.

[Juxtapose]

You better be my full-blown fucking property if I have to treat you like a damn child.

[Juxtapose]

Oh and also if you can choose to abort the baby, I can choose to abandon it. Check out Dave Chappelle, he makes a good argument for that.

[Juxtapose]

My money my choice bitches!

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes? if she has to carry the baby, take care of it after its born, then the least he could do is pay child support, or he should’ve put on a condom, r u like okay? why is this not common sense? how is it misandry? personally i think they should do 50/50 in hospital bills since its both faults they had sex. you’d call a girl u got pregnant ”your bitch” no wonder u never got anyone pregnant. u won't treat them like a child js take ur side of responsebility. u can't tho, only if she has an abortion u can go separate ways, otherwise that argument makes no sense. and if it happens to ur daughter? bet you’d rape her then.

[Juxtapose]

Your lack of maturity really shows but I'll give you a break since you're 16.

[chocolatetwopointo]

no, prove me wrong. u can't ur too scared bc yk ur wrong.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose a guy could easily control himself and not be in that situation at all by only fucking women he'd trust to be his baby mama. And yes the least he could do is pay for her care to make sure the baby is healthy and cared for medical wise since he isn't doing the acutal job of growing the baby

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose crazy to think of women as property when she just wants some basic health care so she doesn't die birthing your child 😂

[Juxtapose]

@chocolatetwopointo Why would I engage with petty character assassination foisted upon me by a minor? I can barely be bothered to respond to that crap when adults do that. Do better & maybe I will actually respond to you.

[Juxtapose]

@Apple1996 the way men are being spoken of here is essentially regulating them to piggy banks who have no choice as soon as their semen leaves their body.

If a woman can kill her child, a man can abandon the child.

And yeah, if someone wants me to pay for everything while not contributing anything themselves? I'm not going to accept that unless they become my property.

[chocolatetwopointo]

god i really hope you never get in contact with any woman, and i feel terrible for the women who already came in contact with you

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose you know that if you've ever paid taxes you've paid for someone's baby mama to have a baby? Like with one of my kids I was on gov insurance because neither me or my husband had a job lol I had the baby completely for free 🙃

[Juxtapose]

Hope and feel all you want. It won't affect me one iota. I have heard worse from better people.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose it'd be more ideal to make the baby daddies pay than for all the tax payers to pay for women to have babies.
And a pregnany women is contributing literally everything. Paying for her should be bare minimum

[Juxtapose]

@Apple1996 I pay my taxes irregardless of what they are spent on. Most of what my taxes are spent on I do not agree with but oh fucking well. That's for me to bitch at Congress about, not you. Go ahead and take every single government benefit you qualify for, it's legal!

[Juxtapose]

Yeah I would not want to be with a woman who had the attitude that she's doing all the work and I need to fork over all the money. I don't even want kids anyway, there's no benefit in it for me.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose if you have sex your risking kids.. doesn't matter if you want them or not 😂

[Juxtapose]

The people I have sex with are men or women who are so repulsed by the idea of having children they want them less than I do.

[Juxtapose]

I'm not going to get baby trapped, fuck that noise.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose with women it's always gonna be a risk. Also men should have to pay for the abortion or birth control if that's what the woman wants

[Juxtapose]

No it's really not. A woman has absolute control over her pregnancy and can terminate it by going to Walmart and getting plan b if she actually gets pregnant by accident. The last girl I was with had an IUD inside of her and that made sex with her pretty safe. She very explicitly assured me that she would get plan b if her birth control failed and I have known her for years and years so I trusted her.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose I should introduce you to my plan b baby 😂 that shit don't work

[Juxtapose]

No birth control is 100% effective but going for an abortion later on will be pretty much 100% effective. The girl I was last with would have gone the extra mile and then some to stop that pregnancy if she ever had one.

[Juxtapose]

The idea of something growing inside of her absolutely terrified her and she would rip the little bastard out herself if she had to.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose she should get sterilized because having that fear is not good

[Juxtapose]

With what money?

[Juxtapose]

And a lot of doctors will outright refuse women her age because she is too young in their eyes

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose if she broke then get on gov insurance lol they'd cover it

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose also would you pay for her to have a abortion?

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose there's always a doctor who will do it at any age. Just gotta look into it

[Juxtapose]

You don't think she has been trying to get government insurance?

And yeah, I would help her pay for an abortion if it came down to it but I don't have to worry about that right now. She's still my friend but she's in another state living with another guy and her and I had a friend with benefits type of situation before she moved.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose who knows but also there is always the option to go in debt for it. If she wants it done that badly

[Juxtapose]

She's already in debt because of a bunch of medical issues including schizophrenia and horrific back pain. You don't really know her situation.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose I don't I was more just saying it's a option to be sterilized

[Juxtapose]

You are right, it is an option even if it is difficult for someone.

[Apple1996]

@Juxtapose also there's the option to just not have sex and be risking it

[Juxtapose]

That's not really a reasonable option for most people. You only live once, you're not going to give up your entire sexual drives just because of a risk.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose But women should, because abortions are bad?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded before I answer your question I want to test how much you know about me.

What is my explicit and very clear stance on abortion?

[goaded]

@Juxtapose No idea, but then you often call me German. What I see is you never challenging right-wing viewpoints. I look forward to seeing you challenge anyone who says women should keep their legs together to avoid pregnancy.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded if you are not German then fix your profile and stop lying to people. I brought this up to you before and you were vague.

You still have not answered my question. Go ahead, take a guess. Show me how much you know about my political positions. I already know your stance on abortion.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Why? It says I'm in Germany, which is true. I've even got dual nationality. As usual, unlike you, I'm not lying. (I'm an immigrant!)

I admit, I hadn't read the whole thread, including your "My money my choice bitches!", right after decrying misandry.

I did answer your question: "No idea". What I've never seen is you respond to someone claiming women should just abstain from sex with "That's not really a reasonable option for most people. You only live once, you're not going to give up your entire sexual drives just because of a risk."

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Reading some of the thread, it seems your position is women should have abortions or get sterilised to please you, but you support people who are likely to make one of those options illegal nationwide.

Basically, you only care about yourself.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded it says you are FROM Germany. Nice try though.

Finally you answer the fucking question. Well, I think women should have free reign on abortion and it should only be restricted when the thing growing inside of her can actually feel pain. Otherwise I really don't care what happens to the stupid ass fetus.

Women getting abortions or sterilizing themselves has nothing to do with me. I date women who already have opinions like that and I don't force them to do anything for me.

Nice projection there bud.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose I am talking FROM Germany, I lived there when I made the account, I'm there right now. I was born in a country that isn't either of my nationalities. "Finally you answer the fucking question." by quoting what I'd already said? Screw you for misrepresenting me yet again..

I'll tag you next time one of your friends says women shouldn't have sex to avoid pregnancy; I expect you'll correct them.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded why you being so vague on what country you were born in? Why so scared man? Where do you really come from?

I didn't notice you answering the question before but yeah, screw you too.

Sure, go right ahead. I have no problem telling them things like I don't believe in their stupid Jesus bullshit and I value the freedom of a woman over a fetus that cannot think or feel pain. My opinion changes when the fetus can feel pain because think about it, would you want to be ripped out of a woman piece by piece when you can feel pain? Didn't fucking think so.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose What difference would it make? Does it make a difference to you if I'm oriental, brown, black, white, or a mixture of all of them? Why do you think that is?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded when did I mention skin color? Go ahead, tell me. I'll wait.

[Juxtapose]

And yeah there must be some reason you are hiding your country of origin. I'm not even hiding my face homie, I'm for real.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose I'm not hiding my "country of origin", I'm not mentioning my place of birth because that would be an invitation to doxxing or identity theft. I've yet to see you argue with someone you usually agree with on here, even when they're obviously wrong.

[Juxtapose]

I literally show people my face and tell them I'm from the USA. Nothing fucking happens to me.

That's because what is "obviously wrong" to you is probably something I deeply support.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Like misunderstandings of basic physics?

There are hundreds of millions of people in the US. There are maybe hundreds of people with my background born where I was. It's not the same at all.

[Juxtapose]

More like understanding basic reality such as voter I. D is needed to have free & fair elections.

Not really, I am SHOWING you myself and could get doxxed while you don't even want to mention where you were born.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose I explained that. I don't care about your opinion about voter ID, that really is a matter of opinion (although all the evidence shows it's unnecessary in practice). When have you ever disagreed with anyone in your club? What about?

You wouldn't agree with me if I said the sky was blue.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded I am registered as an independent, I am not part of any "club" because classical liberals do not have a viable political party right now. The closest one is the Republican Party under Trump and I will support him and then see what the next candidates have to offer.

Wokism, flooding the country with illegal immigrants, censoring free speech and so on is not liberal. I am not going to vote for Democrats or people who think like them. They are social liberals.

The Republican Party under George Walker Bush was absolutely dog shit and was filled with a bunch of weirdos who wanted to suck corporate dick, ban dildos, propagate war and so on. MAGA is the best iteration of the Republicans I have seen in my lifetime.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Oh, I think anyone on this site can see which club you belong to. Just from the lies and insanity you just posted.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded You're such a cult member you can't even see it. TDS.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Sure I am. Tell me, what popular vote margin constitutes a "mandate"? What EC margin does? What are Trump's margins? Does Trump have a mandate to govern how he wants?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded he fought the entire establishment while they tried to cheat and even kill him. He turned everything completely around on these Marxist assholes and people blue the Democrats out in the voting booth. It is clear Americans are tired of woke nonsense.

[Juxtapose]

*blew the Democrats

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Yap yap yap. Tell me, what popular vote margin constitutes a "mandate"? What EC margin does? What are Trump's margins? Does Trump have a mandate to govern how he wants?

[Juxtapose]

Yap yap yap.. go figure out yourself. Come to America and see the mandate Trump has for yourself. Talk to Americans.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose I am talking to Americans. In this case I'm asking one, who says I'm a cult member, to admit facts.

Tell me, what popular vote margin constitutes a "mandate"? What EC margin does? What are Trump's margins? Does Trump have a mandate to govern how he wants?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded you can't put a specific margin on overcoming what he has.

[Juxtapose]

He has overcome some of the most shameless, horrifically corrupt lawfare America has ever witnessed. He is a hero.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose See, this is why you're obviously in the cult. You can't admit facts.

1.6% is not a large margin. It's far less than Biden's 4.5%, less than Clinton's 2.2%, Obama's 3.9% and 7.2%.

All you can do is make excuses. "They're mean to him", "they're cheating" (except when he wins), "he shouldn't stand trial"...

[Juxtapose]

@goaded they're literally counting illegal votes in Pennsylvania right now and you are ignoring the blatant corruption and blatant misuse of the department of justice. Oh well, your approval won't matter because Trump is going to fix this.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose No, they're counting votes that might be judged illegal. This is the phase where genuine lawsuits are brought (unlike Trump's in 2020 which got many of his lawyers struck off). The envelopes are automatically marked with the date, and the Republican in the election wanted such ballots counted in his primary.

Do you admit the fact that 1.6% is not a large margin? It's far less than Biden's 4.5%, less than Clinton's 2.2%, Obama's 3.9% and 7.2%.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded they are in defiance of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, stop pretending what they are doing is legitimate and spreading your dangerous, socialist gas lighting.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose As usual, you're incorrect (lying). Multiple courts have found that undated ballots should be counted, the state supreme court has stayed the orders, not rejected them. The Republican candidate just two years ago sided with counting them.

Do you admit the fact that 1.6% is not a large margin? It's far less than Biden's 4.5%, less than Clinton's 2.2%, Obama's 3.9% and 7.2%.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded no, they are violating the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and are engaging in very dirty politics by trying to count illegitimate votes.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose "Various courts have ruled against the dating requirement in at least a half-dozen cases - including once by the 3rd U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals - but higher courts have always reinstated it.

Meanwhile, the state Supreme Court has put off ruling on a pending case that calls into question whether the law violates the constitutional right to vote."
6abc.com/.../

Do you admit the fact that 1.6% is not a large margin? It's far less than Biden's 4.5%, less than Clinton's 2.2%, Obama's 3.9% and 7.2%.

That you've refused three times to respond to that question is all the proof anyone needs to see that you're in the Trump cult.

[Flower7]

Because it’s inside someone’s body and doesn’t need diapers, food, clothing, shelter, etc to be comfortable.

[LazerBean]

If Africans are humans, why did Democrats love dehumanizing them before Republicans forced them to stop with civil war? I don't know why y'all love dehumanizing people so much.

[HighValue]

If a woman has total control if it is aborted or not, why don't men get total control of their money and choose to not pay child support?

[BTigers96]

What happened to "my body my choice"?

Mom is on her own by her own making. She isn't entitled to child support.

[Anonymous]

If you had kept your legs closed until marriage as you were suppose to it would. Otherwise child-support should only start AFTER the father has been verified.

[chocolatetwopointo]

what does this have to do with me? u can get a dna test no matter the marital status

[Opinion Owner]

@chocolatetwopointo
Yes you can, but it has long been rather difficult to safely do that until after the baby is born. Which is why state laws on the subject do not reflect such an non-established liability.

I would agree of course once that is done the father can be held responsible for supporting said child, not before thou.

[chocolatetwopointo]

whats ur source?

[Opinion Owner]

I'm afraid i don't understand what kind of source are you @chocolatetwopointo looking for in a logical & moral argument, johnLocke perhaps?

[chocolatetwopointo]

I've never heard how its dangerous to do a dna test on a fetus

[Opinion Owner]

@chocolatetwopointo
It is not as dangerous today as it was many decades ago when the laws were written, provided you do it at a late enough point of development.

That is the logical and moral argument I made. I am in favor of parental responsibility once a DNA test is done not before. This was not something that could be done safely until relatively resently.

Regardless having sex with a man your not married to does not put you in a position to complain.
If you had married him you would have the child support from even before being pregnate as was the WHOLE POINT OF MARRIAGE.

So you will forgive me if I have little to no sympathy for such women in such a position outside of rape. They did this to themselfs.

[chocolatetwopointo]

well laws change. then whats the problem if its safe? the whole point of marriage is committment. r u christian by any chance? okay but a man can js leave?

[Opinion Owner]

@chocolatetwopointo
The point of marriage is commitment for children, nobody is going to commit for no reason at all. This is why one of the only legitimate reasons to end a marriage going back to the beginning was failure to have children. Children are the reason behind the involuntarily commitment.

They are also the reason why in a real marriage neither party can simply leave, and the sole justification for mitigating measures like child support. Which is really just weaker less effective form of the marriage patched by the state to mitigate the disastrous consequences of its choice to abandon the institution by redefinition with no-fault divorce.

In this respect one coudl argue a woman who wasn't raped has no natural right to either the child nor child support. But rather has default sole liability to the child having chosen to let the man off the hook in not requiring a marriage.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah no lmao u dont need marriage for kids. my parents had kids when they werent married and still aren't and our family is perfectly fine. yeah but mistakes happen, and not everybody is christian. then why do we let them off so easily?

[Opinion Owner]

I am afraid @chocolatetwopointo Your the one arguing for child support and therefore are arguing for the propose of the institution of Marrage.

It is true that modern 'western' culture and the state currently calls "marriage" is a increasingly pointless institution with less and less relation to the historic one.

But the historic definition of marriage was very much a usesful institution.
Q: Would children survive without it?
A: Yes, and they continue to do so today with or without the mockery of the state.

Q: Are children very much better off on net with said institution?
A: Yes, just because you happened to make it fine does not mean you were as likely to had your parents been formally married. You were not.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes bc it is pointless and always have been. okay so what would have been different? how could my childhood be better if my parents were married?

[Opinion Owner]

@chocolatetwopointo
Marrage has never been pointless only practically nonexistence as it is among everyone who think its about them rather than their children.

As for how it would have been different I can only say that it would have provided you with more security. I do not know the story of your life so it is impossible to say what would or would not have happened differently beyond what would have been less likely to happen.

It would have been much less likely for you to lose the support of one parent or both parents. This is the point of marriage as ti existed among whom it existed. Your concerned with child support but child support is only a small financial payment that doesn't come close to the kind of support having a dad there to provide physical, emotional, and even greater financial support gives a child.

Marrage helped secure that relationships and therefore access to the full resources which given children the best chance.

[chocolatetwopointo]

what makes marriage safer for kids? divorces happen yk. there r loads of terrible fathers out there who’s still there and didn't leave but act like it. how exactly?

[Opinion Owner]

Divorce is extremely rare almost unheard of requiring special circumstances like failure to produce children (known as barrenness) among real marriages in history. We know this from history when even kings had to take extraordinary measures, which tells you for the common man it was almost impossible. @chocolatetwopointo

There were furthermore not a lot of terrible fathers nor were they commonly soo bad as to make a child better off without them. Cherry picking a few very rare cases does not make them common

[chocolatetwopointo]

wdym divorces are extemely rare?💀oh trust me there's loads of abusing fathers out there for example.

[Opinion Owner]

@chocolatetwopointo Today among people engaged in frankly friendship type relationships defined by one or more member as about their own feelings. The ending of such relationships are nearly as common as the changing of such feelings over time.

Theses feeling based relationships were never of course what we historicity refer to as "marriages" lacking the defining commitment to children characteristic. They are in fact just what the least committed partner thinks of them as, or what we might correctly term a "friendship".

Regarding the rate of abusing father your going to have to both define what is "abuse" then establish it both more costly than the father's benefit, more common than not.

[msmissydc]

They are more on track of abortions between Kindergarden and Highschool. Thats their prefered abortion age.

[goaded]

Abortion by AR-15.

[MemeSupreme]

bc it's not a guaranteed thing and it's different than when they're out of the womb

not a pro-lifer but it's a different thing lol

[lorenzomichael]

Maybe it’s because when you celebrate your first birthday, you don’t celebrate your 1 year 9 month birthday. just 1 year rt? Because as you say, wouldn’t your life start right at conception 9 months before you came out?

[BarryLiverstone]

Based on the law it doesn’t start until the baby is born. The law would need to be changed and at that point there would need to be a test confirming who the father is the day of the sex.

[chocolatetwopointo]

well since abortion bans is a law, and the reason for that law is that its a baby, u can't get tests while the woman is pregnant to know who the father is and child support will start way earlier than before

[BarryLiverstone]

Would be great if child support started earlier.

[BarryLiverstone]

But what happens in the cases she slept with multiple guys and doesn’t know who the father is?

[chocolatetwopointo]

i meant to say ”u CAN get tests to show who the father is” my bad

[BarryLiverstone]

But if the law says it starts at conception. Then the gov will force the couple to go and get tested each time she has sex.

[chocolatetwopointo]

only if she gets pregnant tho?

[BarryLiverstone]

That’s my point. Right now a girl can be pregnant for a month or more and not even know it unless she gets tested. But if the law changed and child support is owed in those first few weeks.. then both people will be forced to go and get tested after each sexual experience.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why would they be forced to do that? unless she's not pregnant or planning an abortion it won't be needed to know who the father is?

[BarryLiverstone]

Because you said the laws would be changed to cause child support to be paid while the fetus is still in the womb.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes but why would they be forced to unless she's pregnant?

[BarryLiverstone]

That’s my entire point. The testing is meant to :

1. Determine if she is pregnant. And
2. Determine who is the father.

Obv if she had sex and she didn’t become impregnated then no need for child support. But no one could know 100% unless she gets tested.

[chocolatetwopointo]

she can easily take a test at home to know if she's pregnant, and if its needed she can get a dna test to get child support, why would they need to go to a hospital to get tested when she could easily do it at home?

[BarryLiverstone]

I never mentioned a hospital.

And some girls may lie or deceive. For example if she’s married, she may not tell her husband that she cheated on him. But if the laws were changed that child support starts before birth then the other man would need to start paying

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah? thats when you get a dna test, i js dont understand what ur talking ab rn? you do know child support isn't needed if they are together right? like not the official child support that needs to be accepted through court.

[BarryLiverstone]

Ok I’ll give you three examples as you don’t understand what I am talking about..

Example #1

Sally is married to Tom. Sally cheats on Tom one night and has sex with Jim (a guy on her secret roster).

Result: Sally must take a test and if pregnant must get a DNA test and force Jim and Tom to match the DNA results.

Example #2

Debby gets drunk after breaking up with her boyfriend Rich because he cheated on her and they had only dated a month. But he ends up at her apartment and they wake up in bed together.

Results:

Debby must take the test because she can’t remember if they had sex. If they did then Rich needs to be tested to confirm dna match.

Example #3

Jack and Jill are in the middle of a divorce and he convinces her a threesome might help save the marriage. She invites her hot crush Joe to sleep with them.

Results:

Jill has to take the test the next day and get dna from both guys to know who is the father if she’s been impregnated. To know who must start pays CP

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah? thats what im saying i dont understand ur problem?

[BarryLiverstone]

I guess you don’t understand how this affects the families and each individual. I can’t help you from here then

[chocolatetwopointo]

wdym? why would child support ruin a family? if anything the one who chose to cheat is to blame. child support before birth can help loads of single women

[BarryLiverstone]

See example #1 I gave you. Do you see how that hurts the family because her husband learns that she cheated on him? And if she already has children those children are affected as well.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah thats life, people cheat, she chose to cheat THAT ruined their marriage.

[DrPepper12]

There's a few more corralaries there...
Life insurance
Child support
Welfare
Citizenship
Residency
Criminal law
Civil law

Lots more too

[Snakeyes7]

Because the child gets everything it needs from the womb. The only reason you can screw it up is if the pregnant woman destroys the fetus with alcohol and drugs.

[nawtee_me]

It should and dead beat dads should be put in jail if they don’t support the child. Just like mothers should be jailed for killing the child.
I guarantee that you would have more responsible people if they did…

[Avicenna]

How are you going to pull that off?
In intact families, this wouldn’t be an issue.

[Anonymous]

What would the child support help w at the time? What if she cheated on him, wasn’t his child? Then he finds out 9 months later after he’s paid all this child support?

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Interesting question.

Kinde agree with you. Why?

[chocolatetwopointo]

bc then men would be facing concequences of their actions as early as the woman does, but oh no men shouldn't have a worry in the world

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Not true, we can face jail some time if we don't pay the childe care and run

[chocolatetwopointo]

that rarely ever happens

[Alexandrubaschet08]

But it appen

[chocolatetwopointo]

do yk any man that has?

[Peggy01]

They’ll do anything for the unborn. But once you're born your on your own.

[Ariesman81]

Yeah... I can get on board with that. Provided there's mandatory DNA tests to prove it's my responsibility.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah obvi

[thenerdone]

Because the child doesn't need food, water or shelter separate from that of the mother until birth.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes the fetus takes energy from the mother. have u ever heard the saying ”a pregnant woman eats for two” she needs more energy for her and the baby.

[msc545]

It very well could. Let's not give them ideas.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why?

[msc545]

Because only men would be ordered to p[ay child support.

[chocolatetwopointo]

only when its a fetus, unless they stay

[goaded]

If they stay, they'll be paying anyway.

[chocolatetwopointo]

not child support, js normal things for their child

[goaded]

That's what child support is for.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah? ur point is?

[goaded]

Me? I think it's a good idea that child support should be paid from conception. Failing that, everyone should stay out of women's decisions regarding their pregnancies, whether unwanted, or wanted but failed (end-of-life decisions).

[chocolatetwopointo]

okay thats good

[msc545]

That IS child support in that those things cost MONEY

[msc545]

@goaded How nice that you think that. YOU can volunteer to pay women all the money you want.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah everything costs money, but it won't be official child support

[msc545]

Any conveyance can be deemed child support in this situation.

[chocolatetwopointo]

okay?

[Jamie05rhs]

It should. re-state//background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (77, 77, 77), justifyLeft

[Anonymous]

Child support does start at conception for married couples.

[chocolatetwopointo]

the same way people dont have child support in marriage!

[Opinion Owner]

If the husband doesn't work, then yet. But that is rarely the case.

[chocolatetwopointo]

if both dont have jobs they shouldn't be having a kid, its basic responsebility

[Opinion Owner]

Obviously

[Staximus]

Yeah kill them babies! Why don't we start barbecuing them as well?

[Anonymous]

Because everyone knows that pro-lifers talk nonsense.

[Kingofkings1992]

Why would it? Child support is completely irrelevant to the debate. Nice job parroting the argument of others, kiddo.

[Xoirwinkan]

It actually does, you're supposed to be married.

[onedarkcloud]

That would only work if you know who the baby daddy is.

[Anonymous]

probably because "in the first trimester, no extra calories are needed". Trust the science, bro.

[Anonymous]

Find me a single pro-lifer who thinks that a man who impregnates a woman isn't obligated to marry her

[chocolatetwopointo]

there's loads lmao

[Opinion Owner]

Don't be obtuse kid. The few people who still realize abortion is wrong understand that there need to be strong family units

[chocolatetwopointo]

its not wrong tho lmao. love how its always men saying this.

[Sevenpointfive]

suk dat dik grl. no bbz!

[Dargil]

Ask your state legislature.

[Anonymous]

because there needs to be DNA testing

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah no shit?

[Opinion Owner]

without DNA testing you can lie and say anyone is the father without proof

a fetus is still a baby at the end of the day. as far as who's baby it is, that's a different story

[chocolatetwopointo]

thats why i said dna testing is mandatory. obviously.

[Opinion Owner]

where? it's not in the question at all

[chocolatetwopointo]

i thought that would be obvious💀

[Opinion Owner]

well it's not

[chocolatetwopointo]

thats a you problem

[Opinion Owner]

lol your wording in your question is your problem. not my problem

[chocolatetwopointo]

or maybe have common sense?

[Opinion Owner]

we're not mind readers

[Dongie]

Why are you such an idiot murderer of babies?

[Dongie]

If a woman is pregnant, she is married unless divorce happens during pregnancy, at which point the judge would benefit the mom. So there.

[jahaims]

Because laws are arbitrary

[Ladsin2]

What do you think fetus means?

[shortster]

Because the courts are super slow.

[KrakenAttackin]

Because paternity hasn't been proven, that's why.

[KrakenAttackin]

You are SIXTEEN and already your biggest issue is being able to get an abortion. Pathetic.

[WatchedPot]

Excellent question. 👏

[popcorngirl085]

But that's silly

[chocolatetwopointo]

ah ok pick me

[RavVid]

It doesn't?

[chocolatetwopointo]

ur 31 and dont know this?

[RavVid]

No. Haven't got a woman pregnant thank god. Contraception works.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok? and thats relevant how?

[Anonymous]

Good question

[Anonymous]

It does.

[chocolatetwopointo]

r u dumb?

[Opinion Owner]

Misread.