Did anybody see the exchange between Trump and Zelenskiyy today? I feel like Trump was being a cruel and unnecessary bully along with his frat boy Vance. That was just really hard to watch.
Zelensky deserves an apology from the piece of shit that treated him so disgustingly, I can't believe the level of bullshit they're spewing! America should be ashamed right now the conduct of the president and our foreign policy! it's not only disgusting we'll be lucky if it doesn't cause a new great depression! The tariffs alone will probably double grocery bills and European companies are threatening to boycott us.
This is the worst presidency in American history. Say I'm wrong all you want when you see your bills going up and your money still being worth less and less every day just remember it was Trumps tariffs that fucked you. Tariffs are a tax on foreign goods paid by the seller so if the cost to import something to America goes up what are the sellers are going to do? They're going to raise prices to make up the difference and the cost is passed onto the consumer.
Worse if we pull out of NATO or France succeeds in starting its own sphere our global reputation and standing will be obliterated. We will become the most hated country in the world after North Korea and Russia. We import a shit ton of raw material and other things from Europe that we then make into products here that we sell at a profit.
A trade deficit doesn't mean that we're losing money trading. It means we import more goods than we export but since America makes a ton of money from industry if we piss off the people who sell us our parts and materials what do you think they're going to do to the rates they give us on their stuff?
Europe doesn't need us Economically they can just trade more with China, but China hates us! They won't give us good terms. We live in a global economy and we're pissing off every single one of our trade partners.
Also how was Zelensky rude? They treated him like shit the moment he got there and as for him not wearing a suite I don't give a fuck. He doesn't wear a suite because those are Ukrainian combat fatigues! He's sending a message he stands with his people and soldiers!
Also why does Zelensky get into deep shit for not wearing a suit, but Elon musk can walk into the oval office dressed like a hobo that robbed hot topic while his kid yells at reporters and wipes a booger on the desk? Zelensky is the one being rude? Bullshit!
This was a set up done in bad faith from the start. They were trying to bully him into selling away his countries future but he's smarter and stronger than they are. Trump and Vance are pathetic insecure school yard bullies that think yelling and treating everyone like your lesser makes you a tough strong man. It doesn't it makes you a tyrant and an insecure pussy because daddy loved money more than you.
Zelensky apologize to us? Fucking absurd this is the political equivalent of being a rape apologist. Zelensky is a saint for putting up with it I would have slugged the bastards, to hell with the consequences in his place.
Trump isn't a strong man he's a moron that botched a multibillion-dollar mineral deal by shitting on the guy who was willing to sign the treaty but of yea he's a great businessman give me a fucking break. y'all think Biden was bad? Buckle up.
Also, I'm well aware of the US aid situation and I agree that spending money on trans protests and surgeries in foreign countries is fucking stupid, but the Gaza condom thing was a lie that Elon admitted to claiming he was accidently wrong. US aid isn't out there giving condoms to places with tons of STDs or prodding food and medical aid because America are the good guys. It's soft power projection.
Why do you think these countries in Africa, south America and some of the middle east sell us their oil and raw resources? Because we do shit like that for them and in exchange they behave (Mostly) and give us good deals and priority on the resources we need for our country!
Do you know what's going to happen if we stop providing aid to foreign countries? The Russians or the Chinese will swoop in with arms full of gifts and offer to be their new sugar daddy and then they get the good deals that made America so powerful. Even if you look at this from a purely selfish and self-serving perspective canceling US aid is a terrible idea!
At the most fundamental level the argument - all emotions aside -is based on a divide between the national interests of Ukraine as against the USA.
For Ukraine, this is a matter of outright national survival. They have paid a bloody price and as Ukraine is outside the traditional Western and American sphere of influence, it cannot get the kinds of rock solid security assurances that it wants. So - unwisely perhaps - President Zelensky is pushing for more formal security assurances and is not persuaded, probably rightly, that a mere economic relationship with the West will save his country.
By contrast, the USA has no real interest in Ukraine and is trying to make sure that Russia and China do not move closer together. So Trump will not offer Ukraine NATO membership or other formal security assurances. Such assurances being likely to drive Russia and China closer together - and alliance that is not natural but if it formalized the USA does not have the military and economic power and diplomatic influence to outweigh.
That is what provoked the argument and will likely maintain this stalemate. Ukraine wants to shelter under the West, but Trump won't offer it.
Actually no, the minerals are in high demand in the USA - especially in the tech sector and the USA wants them. What Trump is doing is attempting to fob off Ukraine by offering the mineral deal as a substitute for an explicit security assurance.
In effect, Trump offers Ukraine the mineral deal on the assumption that Ukraine would at least prefer a economic tie to the USA in the absence of a formal outright security assurance. Ukraine is - wisely - not buying that argument, but the implied assumption, disproven by history over and over again, is that Russia will not attack a country where the USA has economic interests.
So , the USA gets the minerals it wants and needs, Ukraine gets an economic tie to the USA in lieu of a formal security alliance and Russia gets to keep the portions of Ukraine it currently holds. Suffice to say, Ukraine gets the short end of that deal but for Trump, he gets to eat his economic cake without formally committing the USA to a military security alliance.
Well, think of his position. He signs an economic deal with the USA with no security assurances as his country is already partly occupied by Russia. Signing that would be, in effect, be confirming the permanent partition of his country.
Imagine if China occupied Hawaii and US allies offer the USA a deal wherein they would trade with the USA but offer it no assurances at the military level. No US President could accept that, yet that is, in effect, what we want Zelenskiyy to do.
The problem is the Trump method. Saying that Zelensky is a dictator, and saying nothing of the sort about Putin. He invents figures, says things that are historically false.
None of this is even remotely comparable to mid Cold War PRC after the sino Soviet split.
The idea of using an inverted Nixon/Kissinger approach here is deeply simplistic.
You just CAN'T believe that Trump does anything good, or for good reasons can you? This is Trump derangement syndrome. Looking, searching, for the very WORST interpretation of ANYTHING he does! Maybe you would have liked the "lauging hyena" better as your president!
@Keyboardkat Actually, I don't know to whom your comment is addressed, but this is not a judgment on Trump. The fact is, Ukraine was part of Russia/the USSR in two world wars and the Cold War and the USA had no strategic interest in that fact.
Trump's current actions simply reflect that strategic reality. To the extent that he is expressing sympathy for Ukraine, he is simply playing a game. In truth, the USA has no interest in Ukraine and Trump's actions reflect that.
Of course, in doing so, he comes off as somewhat absurd. For example, saying that Ukraine does not want peace. "Thank you 1960s era hippie." In truth, would Trump have an interest in peace if Russia were in occupation of Alaska? Of course not.
He is simply pretending to be interested in peace in Ukraine because if it is partially occupied by Russia, that is no skin off of the USA's nose. In the bargain he figures he can get a deal on minerals in which the USA has a strategic interest and fob it off to Ukraine as offering some kind of protection.
Trump is being fairly cold eyed and Machiavellian. So be it. Just let us not pretend that he is bowing to some moral standard. This is cold hard geo-strategy. No more, no less.
@nightdrot
Personally, I still say that the way Trump acts and manages the country is problematic. There's a kind of cult of personality around this person that's quite disengaging. Trump can say the stupidest things and you see the most fervent of his supporters believing him as if it were the word of God.
Trump must be suffering from some kind of hybris.
Putin he has long preferred to strengthen his ties with China, so to believe that Russia will simply detach itself from China is simply not credible.
Under Kissinger, there were strong tensions between the USSR and China, and Kissinger played them off skillfully. Today, the situation is quite simply different.
Now, there is a thought that had never crossed my mind. I believe DJT is too involved in needing these same minerals for some unforeseen reason, which we will learn about later.
Do you think he would jeopardize his public opinion by playing into their hands and giving anything to Putin?
I do like your thought!
@Babay1jeebbe Well, I agree with you to this extent. Trump is playing he realpolitik game - which is actually more appropriate now then when Kissinger did it. (The Cold War and WWII were ideological contests. WWI began for reasons of realpolitik but, ironically, American entry into the war - that and the Russian revolution - turned it into an ideological conflict.)
The problem is that Trump lacks Kissinger's historical awareness. Trump is a practitioner of realpolitik, but out of the instincts of a businessman. He is not a historian as Kissinger was.
As to Putin, he wants a deal with China to balance out the USA, not because he has any great love of China. In fact, tensions between China and Russia under Putin have been fairly brutal. (In fact, if Zelenskiy could figure out a way, his best move would be to cut a trade deal with China for the raw materials he was going to sell to the USA. That would throw both Russia and the USA on the backfoot.)
For what it is worth, I am not a great fan of Trump, but his inclination toward realpolitik is something we need right now. We are not, as we were in World War II and the Cold War, in an era of ideological conflict and to act if it was would certainly seal China and Russia against us. So, to that extent, I will accept Trump as preferable to the ideological tendencies we are seeing in both parties at the moment.
@porschelover65 Well, he would be willing to cut a deal with Russia as an offset against China. (In fact, a lot of the "Russia-gate" nonsense is born of the fact that Trump has tried to cultivate better relations with Russia. Something neither Democrats nor even traditional Republicans have much taste for.)
Trump's interest in Ukrainian minerals is entirely understandable. Those minerals are essential to sustaining and expanding a post-industrial tech-based economy. So he offered Ukraine a deal in which - he hoped - Ukraine would see the trade deal as an adequate substitute for NATO membership or a NATO-like security assurance.
For Ukraine, however, a trade deal - even if it means some economic benefits - will not assure Ukraine against a Russian attack, and in the bargain it leaves much Ukrainian territory in Russia hands. Suffice to say, it is not hard to see why Ukraine didn't think much of the deal.
Bottom line, though, Trump's outreach to Russia has not cost him politically because the American public could not care less about Ukraine. (Keep in mind, Ukraine was part of Russia/USSR in both world wars and the Cold War - and it didn't make any difference to the USA's interests and security.)
Obviously he can't seem to be giving too much to Russia, but he has already implicitly given much to Russia and the public has yawned. It is hard to gauge how far Trump may go with Russia, but it is not unreasonable that he might go farther - assuming of course that Russia and China are not driven together.
@nightdrot
Putin had the opportunity to open up to the West, but he never really wanted to. In fact, he was more inclined to want to strengthen his economic ties with China.
A serious strategic move would be to tell the European allies to ensure conventional deterrence within NATO, allowing the USA to devote resources to the Indo-Pacific region. Without abandoning NATO.
But did you see Musk's statements? He said the US should leave NATO. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
@nightdrot
Now we have to be realistic: the balance of power is not in Ukraine's favor. Zelensky knows this. To continue the war is to run the risk of Ukraine simply no longer existing, of Russia monopolizing all Ukraine's resources, and of drawing seriously closer to NATO.
Or Zelensky painfully accepts to cede the lost territories, and concludes a peace agreement where the Europeans will have to guarantee the security of what's left of Ukraine. It's not an ideal solution, but in such a situation it would be the lesser evil.
In fact, even the French are interested in Ukraine's resources, even if France doesn't shout about it as loudly as President Trump.
@Julie4 Actually, I don't disagree with anything you said. That is my argument, but again, the presumption is that a deal for Ukrainian resources between Ukraine and the USA (and Europe) will be an adequate substitute for security assurances. That is simply not an argument Zelensky can be seen to be accepting.
To do so would be to, in effect, implicitly accept the permanent Russian occupation of at least part of Ukraine. Moreover, at some point, Russia would be apt to move to take back the rest of Ukraine and there would be really no outside power formally bound to block it.
The West - at least Trump - is suggesting in what could weirdly/humorously be characterized as a quasi-Marxist argument - that Western economic interests in Ukraine would be a sufficient deterrent to Russian aggression. That is highly unlikely - as much of history demonstrates.
@Babay1jeebbe Not sure Russia ever really had an opportunity to open up to the West. It lost the Cold War and it is not likely that would strike an economic deal with the powers that humiliated it.
As to Russia and China, they are historic rivals - even in the Cold War when both were communist - and have never gotten on well. (Recall that the USSR and PRC even fought a brief border skirmish during the Cold War.)
Putin only began making moves toward China as a counter to the USA. What Russia does not want is an improvement in Sino-USA relations. What the USA does not want - and the reason why Trump has been downplaying Ukraine - is improved Sino-Russian relations. What China wants is to be the pivot around which the other powers rotate - see also "the Middle Kingdom."
Indeed, the only reason the USA is making a big deal over Ukraine is that some European powers - see also Germany and the states of eastern Europe - don't want to feel that they cannot rely on the USA in the event of a conflict. So the USA has to make a show about Ukraine not so much for Ukraine as to reassure some of its eastern European NATO allies and Germany.
@nightdrot
Well, let's just say that our European allies don't really seem to trust America for their security at the moment. And given Trump's latest statements, that's not going to reassure them any more.
@Babay1jeebbe Absolutely agree and they are not without justification. In terms of domestic politics, Trump is a populist and historically the populist movement in the USA has shifted between jingoism and isolationism. Suffice to say you can see a bit of both in domestic American political discourse at the moment - especially coming from Mr. Trump.
Trump is playing the realpolitik game. However, his domestic appeal is that peculiar blend of jingoism and isolationism that characterized so much of American history up to the end of WWI.
In terms of international relations, the USA has always been somewhat questioned in Europe - even after WWII. Throw in the divisions within Europe itself and the situation is likely to remain unstable and the Russians and Chinese will seek to exploit that where they can.
Put it all together and you have a VERY unstable - if not obviously so - global situation. Ukraine, at the moment is both symptom of, and is trapped in, that complex political and diplomatic environment. Hence President Zelensky's outburst.
That outburst was unwise, but understandable. He has been portrayed in the American media as arrogant and ungrateful. It is likely more accurate to say that he is desperate.
For what it's worth, I just shared this. I think it can help Americans realize the importance of Europe.
Here are a few figures to remind us of Europe's importance to American interests. Does this surprise you? ↗
@Julie4 Thanks, but at least with me, you are preaching to the choir. You'd think one of the most basic lessons of two world wars - which the USA got dragged into because its interests were endangered because it stood aloof from Europe for so long - is that Europe matters.
Unfortunately, the USA lives sheltered by two oceans and a history of isolationism. Old habits are hard to break.
In fairness, Mr. Trump is not a full on isolationist, but he is definitely playing to the American tendency to self-pity. I. e, We pay all the bills and get all the burdens while Europe cuts defense spending and wallows in cradle to grave welfare states.
It is an oversimplification of a more complex reality, but the American public tends to buy into it. Anyhow, thanks for passing the piece along, but as I say, you had me at "hello."
@nightdrot
I know with you I was already preaching to the choir haha. But I've shared it in case it's of interest to others reading this conversation.
To be honest, I'm the first to criticize the Europeans on their defense budget. Honestly, Europeans can't criticize the US when many of them have given less aid than the US. For example, we spend more time making pretty speeches than taking concrete action.
I would say that the problem is that many Americans seem to think that their defense budget is entirely devoted to NATO and that they don't benefit from NATO at all. Which is obviously not true.
On the other hand, if the Europeans think that NATO can continue to be viable by continuing as it is without making any further effort on their military budget, then they're kidding themselves.
@Julie4 Well, I agree, but Europe's declining military spending is partly inevitable. Demographics is at work.
As Europe's population ages - demographically, it is the oldest continent on Earth with Italy being, after Japan, the oldest nation on Earth - the workforce shrinks and therefore the tax base shrinks. Thus there are fewer people of military age and fewer tax dollars for a military budget even as the demands on the welfare state - old age pensions and the like - increase.
This is a problem even the USA is - and will increasingly - face. To be sure, there is an element of political choice - and Europe's history of two world wars has made it a bit skittish on defense spending - at work.
However, the problem is more deeply rooted than simple choice.
By the way, that said, France and the United Kingdom - up to the present day - are among the least worst offenders on military spending and a global role. Tip of that hat to you guys.
@nightdrot
I don't disagree, but there are euro countries that do better than France and England in terms of defense efforts and aid to the Ukraine, even though these countries are less populous and poorer than France and England.
I don't much like to see Europeans acting as lesson givers when they're not blameless themselves. What would the great powers of Europe have without the leadership taken by the USA since the invasion of Ukraine?
Europeans need to be less rhetorical and more practical.
Although it's important to put words to evils, if these words aren't followed by concrete action, it's pointless.
What's more, you can't blame the Americans for having other interests. Particularly in the Indo-Pacific. Where China is by far the biggest threat.
In fact, it's entirely in Europe's interest to ensure a serious conventional deterrent in Europe, while allowing the USA to focus more on the Indo-Pacific. Why is this? Because Chinese domination of this region would not be in Europe's interests at all. And what's the only country in the world that can stand up to China? It's the USA.
In fact, anyone who thinks that the end of NATO would be a good thing is mistaken. The Europeans who think that are even more unaware, because we'd be seeing a resurgence of the old European rivalries.
We need more calm, more nuance, less rhetoric, more concreteness, etc. ...
@Julie4 Well, I don't disagree but much of the problem Europe has is that the interests of its' individual states diverge from one another. The result being that it is hard to get a united policy on any issue.
Yes, you are right, Europe could do more. Yet what so much of European history shows is that there is no inherent consensus in Europe on what to do. That is where the American presence gets its' greatest significance.
You are right, a US presence in Europe allows the states of Europe to focus less on the particularities of their national interests and more on their general interests. The problem being that the less the USA focuses on Europe, the more latitude it leaves for the individual states of Europe to go their individual ways.
To the extent that the USA seems to be looking away from Ukraine, the more likely it is that the individual states of Europe will look to cut their own individual deals with Russia. Thus, for Italy, Ukraine is - relatively speaking - unimportant whereas for Germany, she cannot ignore any change in the status quo in Eastern Europe.
Long way around, the presence of the USA masks a lot of the underlying tensions within Europe. If the USA should suddenly see that it has no interest in securing Ukraine from Russia, the other states of Europe will tend to revert to their historical patterns. For Germany, seeking a deal with Russia. For Britain, "splendid isolation." For France, a deal with Russia that offsets Germany. For Italy, a deal that is less concerned with eastern Europe and more with balancing France and Germany.
The history that made Europe so interesting was no accident, but inherent in the nature, geography, culture and histories of the states of Europe. That reality has been hidden by American dominance in Europe, but it is still an active reality.
@nightdrot
You're right. As usual, this conversation was a pleasure. Take care.
@nightdrot
I'm sure in Julie's head she's thinking
"Let's recreate Napoleon's empire, Make France great again" 😂
@Babay1jeebbe Nah, very funny, but that's a little harsh. I have dealt with Julie on this site for a while now. She deeply loves her country and wants it to shine. However - and we don't always agree though I think in the Ukraine case we generally do - she is a prudent and careful thinker.
Frankly, I could wish that Mr. Trump was more like Julie.
I think Trump shouldn't have done it with the press there but I think it helped expose what a money hungry fake Zelenskiyy really is. Gd handle himself really well and I think he'll make a fine president one day. He stayed calm and collected whilst calling him out but it did feel as if they were telling off a spoilt child with his arms crossed being told "no" whilst he wore his costume.
The man's making thousands off tax payers money for him and his wife and doing there voge shoots together whilst his people are being killed by Russians
a lot of people don't know the truth about the war in Ukraine and don't know that Zelenskiyys been pushing for a war people didn't want for years before he got the press to play pity party with him. People should know better in this day age but the press lies about everything and twists things in there favour that's why they hate trump so much and love Zelenskiyy because he's fake and lies just like them
That's abit sexist to assume people can't conduct themselves on there period but unlike the left I don't believe men can get periods. You woke people always contradict yourself
Apparently you know the truth about this war! Exactly what is your diluted reason for this war? You probably should look and notice your own country totally supports Ukraine in this conflict you idiot.
@katiesmuff firstly nice fake profile Dave or Gary. Secondly turning to personal insults instead of actually giving valid points like using words like "idiot" just proves you've already lost your argument and gotten triggered because someone's opinion is different to yours. Thirdly just because my prime minister supports the Ukraine and most my taxe are probably being spent on a war no one wants doesn't mean I wanted that too. Your from American I'm assuming from your intelligence you must agree with everything trump does right and fully support that right? ( Sarcasm) just incase you couldn't figure that out.
Oh and Fourth I know that Russia wanted to sign a peace deal years ago with the Ukraine even before the fake news picked it up. Zelenskyy is a actor and performer who used to live in Moscow and even perform in front of putin many of times. He's always wanted to be like putin from day one to the point he even starred in a movie playing a world leader and that's were people became convinced he was the man for the job. All trump has said is no more money to him because he wants to make another war to make himself and his wife rich and famous and be seen as hero.
I have no doubt but Russia isn't all innocent and the Ukrainian people are truly struggling in some areas but your Facebook algorithm is lying to you sweetheart do some proper research and come back that isn't biased.
I actually work with people from all over the world and have travelled a lot of Europe and other countries. I actually speak to different people from different countries who've had different life experiences and cultures and opinions to my own and I didn't get angry and call them an idiot maybe you should take something from that. If the Ukraine is so dangerous why did my Ukrainian colleagues all go over there to see there families over Christmas and complain about having to live with other cultures such as Muslims so decided to move back?
Also muff means vagina in England bet you didn't know that one
@ManOnFire also why ask people this question if your gonna get upset when they have a opinion. This is a site for sharing different opinions. If you can't handle that maybe go to a more left wing site we're everyone agrees with each other and doesn't question what the main stream media tells them
I didn't ask this question, you did? 🤣
Where in anything I ever said did you get the idea that I am a trump follower. I think he is the lowest of scum on this earth!
@katiesmuff thank you for making my point for you
I thought Trump acted like a disgusting tyrant, talking to Zelensky as if he were a child. Vance was just as bad, criticizing him for not wearing a suit--as if this was so important when your country is being torn apart. Trump also used language that Zelensky could not understand, such as "You don't have the cards right now," (Zlensky said they weren't playing cards). He was very rude to tell him "Don't tell us how we're going to feel" and repeating it several times. He is acting as though Ukraine is at fault for being invaded by Russia. Poor Zelensky couldn't understand his talking. Trump was being his usual pompous ass self. Zelensky walked out without the deal in the minerals Trump wanted.
This would never have happened with Biden.
@TatesGirl62 I suppose you think you do?
Opinion
78Opinion
It was disgraceful. Trump knew what he was doing with the cameras there. Notice he doesn’t meet with Putin in front of cameras. And here he tries to instigate a fight with Zelenskyy, and then make it look like Zelenskyy is the one being disrespectful.
Those is all just so, so shameful.
*This is all
Everyone knows whose side Trump is on.
@WhiteSteve Strong point.
Putin hasn't been to Washington D. C. Do you really think a phone call in which you hear only one side and can't be 100% sure who is on the other side should be on camera?
@Danzigdawson Trump is tired of letting the rest of the world take advantage of us and letting our people and economy suffer for it.
@Danzigdawson Trump is on the side of the United States. He wants to protect our interests and get something for our support.
Zelensky has been like a Russian agent acting as a partner with Putin to deplete the United States of it's money and military equipment; using Biden to achieve the goal.
If Putin's main goal was to conquer Ukraine he could have accomplished it in only 2 or 3 months and have easily have eliminated Zelensky.
@Danzigdawson Dumb fucking conspiracy theory or not; Why would Zelensky say that he does not want a cease fire agreement with Putin of a minerals agreement for U. S. support?
@Danzigdawson Trump is on the side of the United States, not on the other side as it has been for the past 4 years.
Demonstrated a lack of control over a clearly tense and complex issue. It was clear it was going a bad direction once Zelensky challenged them with some facts and realities. It was the "last question"... and it should have been tabled there, but the VP pushed back and showed clearly... why you want Trump to remain very healthy and live another 4 years. The conversation went right into the "stress" brain and all 3 were triggered going downhill fast.
Trump, you can dislike him all you want... but he's right. Z is right as well. It's just a jacked mess to deal with.
You want to put a Trillion dollars into a war to knock Russia back to the far side of Ukraine... using up how many lives..., or chop Ukraine into a chunk negotiate some kinda of balance and attempt to maintain a peace... for the next war?
Those are your "good" options. The bad option is it melts down in a variety of ways and destroys large tract of land if not global war.
The choice to me is clear... Trump is largely, right.
He's just very direct and cuts through the crap and it stings hearing it. Z... has few cards to play. He does have them... resources and a ton of field level war data he can sell for making drones!
My personal opinion is Trump is right in this scenario. Zelensky is getting tons of donations from the world to fund a losing war. Ukraine has gotten approximately $430 billion from other countries, $184 billion of which is from America... from taxpayers money, and that doesn't even include private donations. He's letting his people die pointlessly. It's like sponsoring San Marino to win the FIFA world cup. It's a waste of resources.
I'm not saying that you should just let bullies do what they want. You should definitely stand up to them in most scenarios. But this isn't the scenario for it. You have to know when to stand down and let things pass to prevent greater harm.
And I feel like we don't know the whole story about what instigated this war. We're only fed news from select sources. Approximately 20% of Russia's citizens are against the war, but what about the other 80%? There has to be a legitimate reason why 80% of the Russian population thinks the war is just. And my guess is it's because of Ukraine's intention to join NATO.
I personally think Zelensky is just in a dick measuring contest with Putin. He's letting his people die due to his pride. If he genuinely cared for his citizens, he'd never ask them to fight that losing war.
The source of this war is the same as for the shit in middle east.
Start with the 3 year old article, gematrinator.com/.../vladimir-lenin-chernobyl-and-vladimir-putin
For 3 years I’ve been saying as someone who comes from a poor and turbulent country and have known leaders like Zalenski forever:
a leader’s job is not to send the youth of his country to die in the fields protecting the fallen notion of patriotism.
His job is to do whatever it takes, no matter how humiliating it might be, to ensure that war doesn’t happen
I know it’s hard to understand from a first world country’s lens.
Being rich (as a nation) and having a strong military gives you the option to push for ultimatums and make threats and show teeth
Russia wouldn’t go into an open war with the US.
But Ukraine isn’t the US. They don’t get to taunt an enemy 5 times bigger than them in terms of economy and military into attacking.
Because they would, and they did
And him “holding them off” for 3 years isn’t heroic.
He’s still sitting comfortably in his palace while young boys who should’ve been in school are laying face down in the mud because he’s too stubborn to accept that it’s a war he can’t win and it’s time to negotiate a resolution
But hey what do I know
Honestly I’m glad they held their ground. Maybe not the best way to do so but Zelenskiyy knows now he isn’t dealing w someone as soft as Biden. Trump is right. Who else does Ukraine have to help them if the US walks? The US has given them so much resources, probably even more than that of our own people to help them. For Zelenskiyy to come in like he has some grounds to speak on, crazy nonsense. Zelenskiyy even knows his country is in trouble. Finally someone who isn’t going to let others push the US around. Sometimes things like this happen in business talks. You have to talk to certain people in certain ways because this is all they understand. What’s disgraceful is Zelenskiyy thinking he can dictate whatever he wants to a country that has funded them. As the saying goes don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If the US walks, they’re cooked. Nothing embarrassing about a country’s leader standing up for his country. What next? W their lack of man power, forcing conscripts to fight, next thing you know it’ll be our military being deployed to fight this war.
Trump is a fucking toddler. Vance is a stupid idiot who seems to have forgotten that his party has always wanted Ukraine to lose and did everything to try to make it happen.
They're not even worthy of being in the same room as Zelensky. He's been resisting Russian aggression for more than 3 years. He is no Trump: he is a leader and he is competent. He believes in his cause and he's still fighting on despite many setbacks and everlasting uncertainty regarding financing.
Trump is Putin's little bitch. He should apologize to Zelensky and shine his fucking shoes.
The reality is the Ukrainian war and its only realistic result of weaking Russia and driving them towards china has always been against American national interest.
We need a strong western inclined Russia not a weak Russia to deal with global problems of the 21st century. We don't need the Ukraine at all.
The choice to wage this war has drastically undermined the security of the west with enormous consequences for the world.
European leaders pushing for this continued bloodshed are morons that have lost their mind with no long term strategic thinking. What do you expect from a continent of infantized welfare losers who haven't had to deal with the reality of geopolitics as adults for 50+ years.
Its actually very simple:
For a industrialized country to make war they need 3 things:
Raw materials + functional industry/ Technology + people.
Just look at a map at who has the most of what and you know what combinations are the most powerful then try to make sure your combinations are better than theirs.
It was just embarrassing to see that happen.
Especially seeing as how Trump's team is giving more respect to Russia and Putin the Agressor in this scenario. President Zelensky has said countless times how thankful they are for the support the united states has given them because they are being attacked without a good reason. Trump denies zelensky a chance to be heard honestly and instead tries to make up zelensky into whatever caricature trump sees in his head by screaming and complaining over everything he says just like a child.
Another thing is Every country in the United Nation's Clearly understood since day 1 that Russia invaded Ukraine unprofessionally, unreasonably, and unprovoked. Which is why reasonable sane people looked unfavorably at Russia ever since. Honestly I'd say Zelensky is sincerely due an apology and so is all of our former united allies. What happened today isn't what America was about or should ever be about.
Zelensky has big opinions of himself.
However he's a small player compared to USA and Russia.
Europe also is small player because
1 they can't agree
2 they are passive
So Zelensky has to learn quick that his fate is already decided. He's probably redundant from his job couple of weeks. USA and Russia will decide what happens to Ukraine.
I feel sorry for Ukraine
That's just life
Without support Ukraine can't defend itself
EU will give money
But not troops without US backing.
Remember this is a proxy war mainly between USA and Russia
EU to small extent
Trump Vance are correct that Ukraine was involved in starting it. With Western support they started fighting back against Russia.
What has that achieved? Lots of dead soldiers.
Myself, I didn't believe the land is worth fighting for. Ukraine/Russia are similar culture. The people with be happy under Russia.
For Russia it's a security matter.
That's my humble opinion🙂
Just how fucking ignorant can you be? Think if you lived in Ukraine which was freed of Russian control years ago to form a nation of basic freedom. What would be your opinion if it were Alaska the brutes of Russia were trying to take over. I'm so tired of reading the crap you fucking stupid maga maggots spew day and day out.
Hahaha
And you know anything about anything?
Examine your own understanding before throwing insults.
The main culprit in the war other than Putin is USA for pushing Western agenda on all those countries bordering Russia.
Eventually the patience stopped. There was a security meeting in Munich 2007
And Putin said he would act.
But US governments continued to bankroll Ukraine.
US has a history of stoking discord for their own financial interests in foreign jurisdictions. Look at South America, Iran, Vietnam.
Me Maga hahaha
I'm not even pro USA 🙂🙂🙂
It was a fiasco, a circus of two pennies.
Trump and Vense have demonstrated how mentally inept they are. Vense said that Zelensky takes his guests on propaganda tours.
Vense should come and live an ordinary life in Eastern Europe and then vomit shit.
I am incredibly proud of President Zelensky for leaving the White House and not standing around being humiliated. He called things by their names and refused to stoop to their level and yet he was the only one who stooped a little to Trump's level, but only so that he could hear him, because from the greatness of Macron and Starmer, Trump sees and hears nothing. SLAVA UCRAINA!!! ROMANIA IS WITH YOU!!!
Discussions to end the war should be carried out privately not in front of the cameras. The whole thing looks to the world as an ambush to stroke Trumps ego and delight MAGA by publicly humiliating zelenski.
I think we've seen a very negative turn point in euro American relations and I wouldn't be surprised if America starts supplying Putin with arms.
Trump and Putin planned the war together. Trump was supposed to the hero who ended it with a great deal, but things fell through when he lost the election. Putin has proof of this which is why he's got Trump by the short and curlies
@purplepoppy
Russia has its own arms industry but we do need to make Russia more economically self sufficient and a real threat again if we want them to be able to stand up and defend their terrotry.
Europe needs to become Russia's main trade partner to the point where they don't need to do business with China. Russia has to nominally be on our side and that's going to be hard thanks to what your idiot leaders did.
Otherwise Russia will eventually become the pawn of a CCP that has with their resources the means for world domination.
@ManOnFire Looks more like Zelenski is working for Putin to deplete our economy and our defense. Putin could have totally captured all of Ukraine in a matter of two or three months and have killed Zelenski if that had been his ultimate goal.
Trump PLANNED Ukraine?
Come on now.
It's the equivalent of having a brick thrown through your window then 10 minutes later someone turning up with a pane of glass that's magically the right size.
@purplepoppy
Given Americas has always kept glass nearby in case of such a sittuation which has been going on regualrly for hundreds of years. Its a bit of a stretch to say it is 'magic' leading me to think your a cave-woman who has never heard of NATO, depot, or air-force.
Regardless what America turned up with to deal with the Ukrainian war was NOT appropriate. We gave them weapons too little and too late. Hence why they are looking at defeat either-way.
@purplepoppy You appear to be confused. Putin did not attack Ukraine until almost a year into Biden's term. Biden has been facilitating it by giving zelensky all the money and military equipment he wanted every time that he asked without any accountability or commitment. Is that because of his and Hunter's previous involvement with Ukraine which he wants to cover up?
I agree with you that the discussion should not have been public. Possibly, that was televised because Zelensky had indicated he was in agreement with the deal and was coming to sign the deal without further discussion or requests for money and equipment which was what he really wanted.
Of course Trump had to defend his boyfriend Putin's honor. Good for Zelenskiy for not sitting there and nodding his head in agreementwhile Trump parrots Russian misinformation like Republicans do. Starmer and Macron had to tell Trump to stop lying too but he just keeps going.
That it was very obviously a set up by Trump with Vance as back up. Unfortunately for those two, they didn't come out of it looking strong. They came out of it looking like lying, inexperienced idiots. And Zelenskiyy looked like the strong leader and hero he is.
I understood it from both trump and zelensky, uk get loans send billions worth weapons etc and pay it back you in the us don't, so I agree with trump there
It was an ambush. They never had any intent on helping, they wanted to demean and belittle him on international TV to his face to try and subvert him politically and then use his reaction as a reason to cut military support so trumps daddy putin will have an easier time
JD Vance is even more of a loyal lapdog than I gave him credit for. Obviously a complete fool to an educated observer
Trump was Reasonable..
American Support was given to Help Ukraine leverage the Military Aid to Show Russian that War will not end in 3 days.. and Find a Middle Ground and negotiate Peace with Russia..
Ukraine wasn't supposed to assault Russia !. Only Defend Itself..
But Instead of Showing the American Support to Negotiate Peace with Russia, Zelensky Screwed up by Using the Military Aid in Igniting the War instead of Brokerage to Peace.
Zelensky is Responsible for Destruction of Ukraine and Biden Played Zelensky like a Fiddle to Destroy Ukraine... Meanwhile Russian isn't affected, Russian used it's 1980's Military Technology of Rockets and Missiles which were Gathering Dust!.
Trump is Clear, American Support should not used by UKRAINE to fight War instead Use it to negotiate Peace ☮️.
I doubt even Fox could screw up telling what happened as badly as you did. Ukraine was invaded by Russia. Russian troops attacked the border areas then marched in and took over areas far from the borders. That was igniting the war, not Ukraine's defensive actions. Russia has chosen to send missiles into hospitals and schools in Ukraine. They have captured many people in Ukraine and taken them deep into Russia. Many of their missiles have been launched from inside Russia as well as the aircraft that is flying over and bombing Ukraine are coming from airfields in Russia. These are the targets in Russia that Ukraine is attacking only to protect their own country and people. Only an idiot would believe that Ukraine has been igniting the way with Russia.
@Red_Arrow 😂😂 You have no idea What Happened!.
If you want to understand what happened at the chess board , don't look on the Board..
Look in the Box where or the fallen Pieces are going into..
War isn't Between Ukraine and Russia..
All I can tell you it was there were 7 Players in This war Russian & Ukraine were 2 visible..
Other 3 are
- American Government of Joe Biden and Democrats who Embezzled 100-150 Billion in name of war.
- Oil Companies and Crude oil Market that made Million with oil price Going up and another millions as it goes down in future.
- Arms and Ammunition & defense company and Industry.
If you can Tell me the remaining 2 , I will accept that you new Something, otherwise you are just mocking yourself here!..
"Ukraine wasn't supposed to assault Russia"
FFS, they were only supposed to assault the Russian dug in and fortified positions inside their border and ignore the lightly defended border with Russia? Counter-invading Russia was a stroke of genius! They gained something to negotiate with, they caused Russia to defend not just the lines in Ukraine, but their entire border with Ukraine, removing personnel from the former to the latter.
Apparently that towel around your head has caused severe brain damage. Possibly worry about your own sad country instead of something your not even part of.
Master negotiator Trump vs. Giveme, Giveme Zelensky.
Two narcissist with gigantic egos so convinced from themselves to be god chosen negotiators demand from a guy who would sell his butt for paper with pointless security guaranty can't achieve any consent. I think Xi rolled from laughing on tiger pelt carpet in his panda bear lust dungeon.
There are two options.
- It was a staged show, Trump and Zelensky wanted this outcome. Trump can remain the willing angel of peace while Zelensky can play the betrayed bride role further.
- it should be a humiliation ritual to show what for mofos Trump with JD Vence and evil super power they are but it would end with sign of treaty. I think Trump in Star wars Emperor's robe and Vance in Darth Vader costume would look just more cool. XD
Seriously, I have never seen so much lack in proportionality in politics like in this sh... show.
Trump has been colluding with putin since his first term and trump throws a tantrum when things dont go his way. Its pretty obvious what trump is doing. also, this is another distraction from what the rest of the trump administration & elon is doing
I can't remember exactly off the top of my head how many billions of dollars Biden just gave to. Zelinski with no questions asking.
Recently it was discovered that 1/2 the money was missing.
Well, billions of Americans tax payer dollars is "Just missing" 🤷🏼♀️
Trump is right on when he wants that war to stop because there are too many lives being lost on both sides period. It's got to stop.
Maybe Zelinski should check his personal bank account and see if the missing money turns up there instead of trying to make America pay for "Their" war. America doesn't have a dog in this fight.
Zelinski had big enough balls to get billions of Americans tax payer dollars but he doesn't have the balls to stop this incidious war. TFB Zelinski!!
what are your sources for '1/2 the money was missing'?
The difference with half the money is that Trump lied and doubled the actual spending. So, of course, half of it went "missing" because it was never spent in the first place. Also, Trump was completely misinformed about the spending and where it went. He thought all of it went directly to Ukraine. While 100 from 175 was never towards ukraine but into supporting organisations in that region that are not The country ukraine.
I found it really difficult to watch and I saw it as two big bullies trying to destroy a vulnerable man publicly just so he signs the deal they want. I'm quite a sensitive person and I see a man that is fighting for the freedom of his country, a man of honour who will not be corrupted. It was cruel from where I am standing. And I mean no disrespect to anyone who sees it otherwise.
I haven seen it. But the moment I read it I shook my head and said I bet you Trump did not let the man even speak
And I bet Trump was a loud mouth bully. so now I would like to watch it if possible just to see if I was close to what I felt
Jerry Springer more or less. Typical American broadcasting. Zelensky, who's in great physical shape, listening to two fat men talking tough.
Lol. Yeah good point.
Zelenskyy showed the Oval Office press cabal how a leader should conduct themselves. A true head of state not some TV reality show host who bought his way to the venue with the support of very actor responsible for the chaos in Ukraine.
Vance was just as bad but a bit more coherent than Trump
I liked Zelenskyy's "We're not playing cards" (we're fighting for the survival of our country against someone who doesn't think twice about stealing and indoctrinating our children and raping, torturing and murdering civilians, among other war crimes, with the explicit intent of making my country part of Russia).
Trump thinks it's all a game.
Really? I found it a misunderstanding of language at best. Not having the cards is figure of speech for not having what he needs to win the war. Ukraine is in a very weak position and depends on foreign support to survive. Trump isn't playing games either, but he was reminding zelenskyy that the only reason that he even has a negotiating position is because of the US. Without it he has nothing to offer Russia because they can just steamroll Ukraine.
Dodging that reality with an ally who is actively willing to empower you is a dumb and arrogant move, but one that can be forgiven if he misunderstood the context. I don't take him that dumb though, I think he was being arrogant when he should have been humble. At the end of the day the US does not need Ukraine, but Ukraine does need the US. And in Trumps negotiation style we know that if you try to get on top he shuts it down before you think you can negotiate on your terms. He's very aggressive in his negotiations.
Which makes him in a weak position, you now have one country going "What democracy you don't even have elections?" and that position is already weakened ideologically speaking. But ultimately you can ignore the propaganda points and take ideology out of it. The reality is "What do we get out of it?" not "What is the morally right thing to do?" if the world operated on morals we would not have wars to begin with so I don't analyze it like that. Ukraine has resources the US wants and the west wants influence in the region as well as expanding their regime east by taking Ukraine over into becoming just a state of the EU empire. Russia wants control of its own turf as well as access to strategic military locations and land it once had.
The above means Ukraine is a pawn. They have no defenses so they have no say. Unfortunate reality but thats the reality. Same for a lot of countries who are just vassal states to a super power. Means the super power is going to dictate the terms. Right now the terms are "This isn't worth it for us your going to end the war with a deal".
@sawno Britain didn't have elections in WWII, wasn't it a democracy?
"if the world operated on morals we would not have wars to begin with"
Of course we would because bad people don't have morals. Like Trump.
Democracies generally, present company excepted, want their governments to be moral.
Props for pretending that allowing people with the same values to join your organisations is the same as invading countries to force them under your control.
"Of course we would because bad people don't have morals" thats saying the same thing I am saying but different. Politicians don't generally operate on morals. They do but only if its also in their interest or at least doesn't harm their interests.
I'm not pretending anything, your still going on a premise that's just propaganda. I'm saying that if you want to propagandize you can propagandize that Ukraine does not have a democracy which they ARE doing. I'm also saying none of that matters because its not relevant.
Now if you want to make it purely an irrelevant moral issue then Ukraine as a nation has to be left alone and qualifies as a democratically elected dictatorship in my book along with 99% of the countries in the world. But I am not to versed on that aspect of them. Maybe they have phoney elections in which case its an ordinary dictatorship. Maybe they have direct democracy that I missed and its a democracy by my standards. None of that matters for the war however.
Goaded you have not remotely understood what I am saying to the point I am not even going to have thia discussion. Neither of you have actually. I can't make an argument for complex international politics if you then think me articulating how the elites think is my personal opinion. So I am not going to engage anymore. You did not cite my beliefs accurately at all.
That is not propaganda that part is my personal view because my standards for a democracy are higher than other people. It should be evidence I hold democracy in very high regard to the point that most countries don't qualify. The Netherlands used to be almost a democracy when we had non binding referenda. The almost comes from the fact its non binding and was ignored in practice. Against the will of the population they illegally removed referenda by making a new law apply retroactively, something the old law made illegal as it had to be put up to referendum first which they did not do. Which transformed the Netherlands from being almost a democracy and one vote away from being a true democracy into just another democratically elected dictatorship.
Switzerland is a country I consider to be a democracy. For me to qualify the people need to have an actual say, not merely voting on empty promises by people who then dictate policy.
The propaganda part is that Ukraine's democracy is being defended. It doesn't matter if they are a democracy or not its not the real reason. In war nobody cares if something is a democracy that just sounds good for the people. They care about influence, power and resources. If your playing a strategy game on the PC your also not thinking about how democratic the land your about to invade is. I just don't believe world powers think this way.
But ill also add this bit since I can tell your otherwise easily confused. In my opinion Ukraine should exist and be a democracy. I don't want it to just be Russia. I think Russia's invasion of Ukraine had understandable motives but is still wrong and I condemn that. I don't think we have a moral disagreement. I'm just translating how the world works rather than saying how the world should work.
@sawno People saying how the world should work is how the United States came into existence and democracy spread. Backing off making improvements now is a bad thing. There's still a chance to choose between dictatorships and democracies (by the normal understanding of the word). Trump is choosing the former.
Sorry I somehow missed your response before.
Because trump has his head so far up putin's ass!
Zelenskiyy is the man.
He was losing it purely because he was attacked. But he pulled it together while trump and vance made fools of themselves. It was ridiculous.
substance is more important than optics
war isn't a joke when they are lives at stake not to mention the billions of our taxpayers money being sent over. Ukraine has no men left and stupid liberals want to draft more young men to die. why not just draft some feminists and some male feminists too while we're at it...
since Zelenskyy and Putin won't get together to negotiate, Trump has to do what he can with Zelenskyy first and get him to stop his side
now does Trump look a bully? should he have coddled Zelenskyy instead like Biden did?
Zelenskyy is like that annoying kid in the street who talks shit and throws rocks at his neighbor's house, ruins their lawn etc. and then when the neighbor comes out, he runs to his big brother for help and the brother just doesn't want to fight
the idiot users upset at this would be handing over billions to Zelenskyy right now like good little puppets
@goaded Trump wants to end the bloodshed immediately. property can be negotiated later
@goaded re-group for what? Russia could easily destroy Ukraine if they wanted to. whether Putin wants peace or not, Trump clearly wants it
@goaded nuke or no nuke either way Ukraine won't win the war on their own and it's costing them lives unless you don't care about Ukrainian lives
I think that's up to them. Putin humiliated himself when he invaded and failed to take the country. Now "Up to 220,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine since 2022, according to analysis by the BBC Russian Service, independent Russian outlet Mediazona and a team of volunteers. They have obtained the names of at least 88,000 of the soldiers, according to the outlet Important Stories."
If Putin wanted peace he wouldn't have invaded, and he could pull out at any time.
If Russia stops fighting, the war is over. If Ukraine does their country is.
@goaded not really if he wasn't going all out. the nukes are being reserved for threats like the USA
regardless whether Putin or Zelenskyy wants peace or not, Ukraine currently has permission from the previous Biden administration to launch long range missiles into Russia so Russia stopping is not guarantee Ukraine will stop either
hence why Trump is demanding diplomacy which is better than senseless killing
@goaded lol you actual believe Russia was going "all out" against Ukraine?
I guess Superman was going "all out" too when he lost to Batman
Ukraine has every right to defend themselves. stopping the fighting should be the priority regardless
ceasefires have been called upon during the Israel/Palestine conflicts yet somehow a ceasefire between Ukraine/Russia is bad?
I think JD went to hard, inexperience on his part since he copied his usual debate style that normally works for him. But trying to put the US at their place was a really dumb provocative move on Zalenskyy's part so what he got was partially deserved but at lower intensity.
For those interested here is a UK Barrister analyzing the talk : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmMl8ISPcY
We didn't really see what lead up to the televised but but I'd guess Trump and Vance were trying to bully the Ukraine lead into signing a minerals deal which would effectively end the war and guarantee US people in the area which Russia would be well advised to leave alone this guaranteeing peace.
But Zelensky was apparently having none of it. Perhaps he was expecting Biden. Perhaps he had a bad day. Perhaps the deal offered was dreadful. It would seem he overplayed his hand and his aid was in tears.
Maybe the Europeans will deal with Ukraine and the US with Russia. After all, those minerals will help the US and Europe reduce dependence on China, I'm guessing.
Dunno whether NATO will survive this though.
It is nice to have a leader that has America's interests as his priority. He is right when he says that Zelensky does not appreciate the billions that America spent on his war. Trump tried to explain his position and Zelensky kept saying that he wanted more support from the US and wanted guarantees. Trump tried to explain how he wanted peace and if he did not want peace then he had nothing else to say to him. I think that it was a long ride for Zelensky back to his hotel.
I was shocked that it was on national TV for the world to see what an ignorant president and whoever that vance prick is. Only one absent was VP musk. Soon we well have everything MAGA wants a country with secure borders standing alone with not another friend in the world.
Only thing that would have made that episode better would have been Zelenskiy haul off and punch trump sqare in the face. That would have been a hoot.
I gotta disagree here.. Zelensky didn't even wear a suit and he came in disrespectful to the country that has spent billions in a war they had nothing to do with.. All Trump was saying was to say thank you, and that he's trying to negotiate peace and save Ukraine from a losing battle.. Zelensky didn't come in humble from the start.. I think Trump was doing his due diligence..
Zelenskiyy NEVER wears a suit, even when he would meet with Biden. He wears that outfit as symbol of his solidarity with his troops, and to show he's not trying to look fancy while his country is dying. I watched the interview I couldn't find anything Zelenskiyy did that seemed ungrateful or disrespectful. The man has said numerous times he appreciates America's help.
@ManOnFire He was asked why he didn't wear a suit, and I don't think I heard that it was to have solidarity with his troops.. Especially since there doesn't seem to be many left to have solidarity with.. His body language and the fact that he didn't just sign the deal but expected more after the U. S already gave him billions.. Definitely didn't show appreciation..
@ManOnFire Nevermind his gear is military wear my mistake, but he was advised to wear a suit.. I think it would be respectful to dress for the occasion of the country that has already given you so much aid.. He came in disrespectful..
@Joshydavid25 Deep down Zelenskiyy doesn't want a shady minerals deal. He wants an end to the war and he wants his nation back.
The minerals deal was for all the billions the American tax dollars spent on this War.. Basically Trumps way of telling Ukraine to pay U. S back.. If he wanted to end the war he would've just showed up to sign the deal instead of begging for more..
The masks have fallen. Xi is currently rubbing his hands together having seen that USA is being led by wimps scared of Putler.
They won't get a second this good opportunity to invade Taiwan after Trump leaves office.
It was a staged presentation of Trumps inflated ego. The world is taking note, I predict the Trump administration will be making powerful enemies in the EU over this and other political missteps.
Trump was trying to score points with Putin and justify his support for Russia by beating up on Zelenskyy in front of the media, truly pathetic behaviour from a bought and paid for Russian asset
m Trump has no class, no manners and no clue. But hey, the art of the deal, eh?
Zelenskiyy is a proud, stupid idiot. If he was truly invested in ending the war, why attack the people are trying to arbitrate the end of it? He deserves to be obliterated if he doesn't have more respect for the United States. We Americans have better things to do with our money.
Well , its reality TV in the white house , I don't think this is a healthy / sensible way to play out delicate International relations. The other thing I'd say , you don't win a debate my simply shouting over the other party , these are bullyboy tactics , you will now have more people in business doing this , not good at all
I've been a supporter , but I do agree with these tactics.
Zelenskyy came to the White House with his hand out demanding money and support. He got sent away like the beggar he is…. Zelenskyy doesn’t want the war to end, he wants his gravy train to continue. Zelenskyy should do anything to stop Russia from killing Ukrainians.
This makes me ashamed of being an American. We used to stand for something, all the Trump motherfucker has made the USA into is piece of untrustworthy turn coat shit with no principles like him. Motherfucker has made the USA into his image. Now he can go suck Putin's dick.
Wild.
I do not know. Both sides have points. Russia is a threat. We need peace. WWIII is closer now due to this war. The west did play a role due to threatening to let Ukraine join Nato.
I do not know. We will have to wait and see and find out what is/was the wise thing to do.
Standard, immature behavior from a bully and want to be dictator. There will be more of these type of blowups, he's eventually going to do it to the wrong person.
Trump showed he's a Putin Puppet and definitely no statesman. He's trying to change the facts but it didn't work. Everyone knows that Putin invaded Ukraine even if Trump won't admit it. Funny how the whole of Europe knows the facts but our president prefers to spread BS. Looking like the only friends the USA is going to end up with are Russia, China, and North Korea.
He had tried the same earlier with Kim Yong Un - but that one was too smart to step into the trap.
Now finally, Trump found some other fool to play his show.
Which typically ends with: ''you are fired''.
However bad you might think it was, Trump has proposed a peace deal and Zelenskiyy refused it.
There's been a summit in the UK to discuss the EU ceasefire deal... We'll have to see how that goes, but Keir Starmer (UK Prime Minister) has already asked Zelenskiyy to go back to the US for further discussions.
There's been a huge overreaction to the US-Ukraine meeting.
I thought it was disgraceful. They are both clearly out of their depth.
America needs to stop trying to police the word. I am siding with Zelenskiyy on this one. Trump is already Israel's puppet and now Russia's too. I don't see how anyone can respect Trump now.
Of course, Trump has been a bully his entire life. Trump cares about exactly one thing: Trump.
Trump is like the friend outside the bar telling his buddy to tap out before his face gets too fucked up. Not wrong, but not supportive either.
Trump was totally unhinged. Worst day for the Presidency ever. Should never have been televised. Still, some supporters ate it up… Dipshits.
DJT is a master chess player who usually plans his moves 8-10 moves ahead. I know he has something in mind with the minerals, but he is unwilling to 'pay' anymore because bidum already overpaid.
Hell, I don't know. Does anyone know what DJT is thinking? We are thinking Ukraine and minerals, and he may be onto something else miles down the road of politics. ;)
It is about time that Zelenskiyy gets told he can't just continue getting handouts without accountability and concessions for us. He should also come dressed more appropriately and be more willing to consider options for ending the war.
It’s embarrassing looks like something out of some documentary I would see.
it's embarrassing. i feel bad for zelensky
@ManOnFire That's a great way to put it. It highlighted just how little they understand the gravity of the situation, human suffering or war strategy. This was one of first times in my life I remember thinking how incompetent US looks as a country.
@Vegasrunner All Trump is doing is making himself look worse and worse in the eyes of Americans.
It was embarrassing and like you said hard to watch.
All he had to do is show up in a tie, sign the deal, have lunch and say thank you. Not hard to do.
I am sad. They could have been friends but with politics in general gets negative so super toxic enough already.
Zelensky mistaked DJT for the temperament of Joe Biden. He thought DJT would cave, not escort his entourage out the door. Putin must be pleased.
I watched the entire event and didn’t think he was respectful. The way he rolled his eyes and argued.
Yes, if you watched before the main argument he was constantly shaking his head and acting immaturely
Barry please 😑
Think for a moment.
People is going to die.
This guy is going to make some serious harm.
Yes I am thinking. He should have been respectful and signed the deal. But he wanted security assurances and knew Trump wouldn’t give them.
Look Barry, I have given Trump the benefit of the doubt many times. For once I thought I really liked him before he came to be president. I even watched the full interview, to see if there was some detail I missed.
Yet my feeling, after looking at the raw situations and not what the media portraits, always ends being a bigger disappointment than I expected.
It's very disgusting that you treat war as a "deal". More than you lecture the president of another country, that is obviously at high distress, like he was a children.
This is just the opposite of what I want in a leader. I want this dude out of the office, or serious harm will happen. We won't reach summer without a catastrophe.
Trump will serve out his term. You can predict anything but in reality he will be the potus for 4 full years and then someone else will serve and be elected. What Trump tried to do today was move towards a resolution of the war. The catastrophe would be if in 4 years when Trump leaves the war is still going on.
@BarryLiverstone Never saw a single disrespectful start from Zelenskiyy in that meeting. The first person to attack was Vance, and then Vance got his panties in a bunch when Zelenskiyy asked him "Have you ever been to Ukraine?" and that's what Vance couldn't stand and why him and Trump got mad. Zelenskiyy showed them up.
1990s so many people were not alive, that’s too far into the past. Why can’t the Ukraine and Russia just stop shooting
@BarryLiverstone You mean "why ruZZia just go home"? Because main gole of ruZZia is to destroy Ukraine.
Incorrect. Putin wants to reclaim the motherland. Not destroy it
Nope
Excuse me sir? You laugh and ask me such a question. Look I understand this is a free online web app and you can’t be held accountable. But no, I am not an asslicker as that’s gross.
Look. I don’t even like Russia. I have never licked a man’s ass, that’s gross. You talk about brutal honesty and not understanding politeness and western culture. But then you make fun of a stranger online? That’s immature and disrespectful.
As I said, Putin would like to reclaim the motherland. That’s how he spins it. That’s what he tells his people. And it’s how he justifies his aggressive actions. Zel claims his country is 100% the victims and he travels around the world begging for money and military support to fight the “terrorist” that invades his country.
What I think is what my initial answer was. That both sides stop fighting and sign a peace agreement. Use diplomacy to argue and barter about who gets what in the settlement and make Putin agree to stop his aggressive military actions.
I’m asking in brutal honesty from you.. when do you want the war to end and how can it end?
Trump is not Biden. Zelensky's days of getting his monthly allowance from the US are over. Trump wants peace, whereas Zelensky doesn't, he just wants more money at the risk of more Ukrainian collateral damage.
You saw what 99.7% of the WORLD saw. The.3% cult however...
Zelensky expected to be coddled like he was with Biden. 😂 He knows otherwise now. He stuttered and stammered and tried to kiss some ass but it was to no avail.
Nope.
Are you going to get in line to get tea bagged by Putin too @dongie?😄 Right after Trump's done honoring his master's hammer-less sickle?
It was unprofessional. Even if they disagree with each other, both sides should remain respectful. Trump acted like an angry toddler. Our country looked like a joke on TV.
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