Is DEI harmful to Blacks, because if they are admitted to an elite university or get a prestigious job, people assume it was based on DEI; not merit?

[Kelley1]

A black on YouTube stated: I already have an undergraduate degree in engineering and I'm getting a master's degree in electronics engineering. I graduated high school with a 4.0 GPA. I had above-average SAT scores. I got I got into every college I applied to. I got a full ride to college to study engineering. What never crossed my mind, is that I hoped the school would lower grades or test scores to admit me because if you want to be the best, you want to be the best. I've never thought about lowering standards to accept me and if I didn't get into a school, I didn't get into a school.

Here's the thing if you get the highest test scores and you get the highest grades you'll get into any school that you want. However, the problem is, that when these initiatives exist, people begin to question if you even belong. It happened to me. I have one of the most prestigious scholarships that you can have for an engineer. They give you a scholarship to go to school and you are almost guaranteed employment when you graduate as a researcher engineer; a very prestigious scholarship, extremely hard to get, and I worked very hard to get it.

Someone who I'm very close questioned if this was a DEI scholarship and the reason that troubled me is that if I were white or Asian no one would ask that, but because I'm black and because DEI initiatives exist, people, automatically assume that if I get a scholarship it could be DEI that's not right because people are going to look at me like oh you didn't deserve this, you didn't do that, and that's the problem you should just want to get something that you earn.

[D_Bone_Steak]

It's discrimination or like one of the few things Bush Jr. pointed out, the soft bigotry of low expectations. When you just give it to some then everyone outside that group starts to assume they all have it handed to them.

Plus I hated that shit in college. And I felt this during all the basic classes before they drop the fuck out. Everyone else worked hard to be there and is focused on working harder, and then you have wacked out retards doing High School shit and asking dumb questions and they're only there because it's all free at first, and they didn't even pass the attmetance exam. Can't even spell their name and they're just disruptive af. Always the same story, they drop out before they even finish the first year.

It's sort of mean too because it does give them debt and you have to buy those books. Why let them in there at all if they can't even finish High School? They're just going to fail. A lot of them got "special help" because of their grades which just meant giving them good grades because they can't do it... and again, yeah, you run into someone that is actually smart but looks like they could get the 'free ride' sort of gets looked at funky until they prove their worth because of it.

Everything should just be ran on egalitarianism. Basing shit off your race, gender, or sexual proclivity is sort of retarded and not based on merit at all. ... and people know it.

I have a degree... now I can't talk about it as a thing of pride because people assume you're a retard thanks to all the bullshitery bullshit artists that they've let get degrees now at this point. I wouldn't even put it on a job application anymore. BS in Accounting if you're wondering.

[sawno]

Its discrimination and implies that they can't do it on their own. So yes its harmful in the long run.

[purplepoppy]

Some how we've got from , "ok youve got a degree but we still don't employ jungle bunnies," to "I won't't employ you because I'll be accused of being woke."

[Jennz6]

Yes it is harmful

[RedInnocent69]

@jennz6 I want to challenge you on that. If you take the blanket position that it’s harmful, that means no black would never be admitted to Stanford or aspire to a VP at a major company, because it will always be assumed that they’re DEI. And it’s true that some people will always assume that, whether DEI is in place or not. But let me pivot. When I come into the club and choose a black girl with smaller breasts for a dance over you, do you assume I’m a liberal that made a DEI hire, and is my decision harmful to her or does it just hurt your feelings?

[Jennz6]

@Kelley1
Thanks for the MHO

[RedInnocent69]

No, because only racists and snowflakes assume that. At senior leadership levels, the female, black, native, whatever, professionals have been extremely competent. Often more so than their white male colleagues who haven’t had to struggle as much or work as hard to earn those positions. I will say the girls have often been bitches, but they’ve always been competent. The whining always comes from catty, jealous underlings or less competent snowflakes. I digress from the question from the question about blacks, but make no mistake, girls are DEI too. Just because you’re seeking a wife degree doesn’t mean every other vagina owner is. Inevitably some are going to be more attractive than you. You’re going to hate them for it, and be pissed when your hubby has to go on a work trip or kiss up to them at office parties or whatever. Given the choice, guys may be inclined to hire eye-candy in an admin role, but not at a senior level where the performance of that hire is going to reflect on their reputation. Personally, sometimes I’ve even been reluctant to hire attractive girls and made sure to bring other girls into the interview/hiring process to cross check I wasn't just being a swinging dick and keeping it my pants.

[Joshydavid25]

"A black on YouTube stated"

I don't know if that was a typo, but it definitely sounds funny.

But it only harms the people that actually got in because of DEI, not the people who didn't.. Only thing it harms for them is their ego.. I get it could be disheartening for people not to take you seriously because they might assume you were given preferential treatment, but it's not the job of the people around them. to determine that.. Just treat everyone the same and the weak links will show themselves..

[adventurous-1]

It's an obstacle for many people and many racist believe that that's the only way a black person could gain admission, never believing in that persons abilities or intellect. Its sad but present in many people of questionable ethics and closed minds. Color does not now or ever has had an impact on a persons intellect and abilities, just on how some people view them. DEI was designed to combat racism in all its forms and some times it got abused which caused bad publicity as well as claims from people that lost out to a person of color due to that persons superior intelligence and they needed an excuse to validate their failure rather that face the truth they were inadequate in meeting the requirements to proceed. Such is the world we live in. IMHO

[CheeseMonster]

That's not a DEI problem, that's a racism problem.

Even before DEI, the same people assumed black people were less qualified or undeserving of those same positions they were hired for. DEI just gave them a new word to use instead of just "black".

And if you care, you can look into what DEI actually is, and see that it is not lowering scores or requirements but rather training against and discouraging that kind of racism that makes qualified black people less likely to be excepted than equally (or less) qualified white people. And the same for other minorities and protected groups—and the same for everyone.

I'm sorry people you know don't care what DEI actually is and just use it as a slur to call black people dumb. That is not a problem with DEI. That's a problem with them being racist and not caring to question why they think that way.

[Ariesman81]

@CheeseMonster So, the intelligent black person is wrong? His views on it are invalid? Stop with the racism and DEI. There are only two types of people in this world... those that get it and those that don't. Race and gender has nothing to do with it.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 black people disagree with each other often. They are not a monolith. Some black people are bound to be wrong some of the time. Sorry you disagree with facts.

[CheeseMonster]

Someones view of something is different than their opinion of it. Me saying "this looks like x" is different from "this is x." One of those is valid because it's my view. One of those may be true or untrue, depending on if the thing actually is x or not.

[Ariesman81]

So, I as a white conservative believe and agree with the black man in this scenario. The man is dealing with the unintended consequences of DEI. To relegate his accomplishments to race. Liberals and DEI are racist ideologies. Meritocracy removes all limitations and relegates accomplishments to the individual.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 how is other people assuming he only got hired because of his race the fault of DEI? DEI doesn't mean people get hired because of their race, it in fact supports meritocracy. And he didn't even get hired because of DEI. So how is other people's wrong, racist assumptions (that he must need lowered standards because he's black) DEIs fault?

[Ariesman81]

Without DEI policy no one would question his merit. The assumption would be he is qualified. Which is why you don't see conservatives questioning people like Kash Patel and Tulsi Gabbord's qualifications. Race and gender means nothing to us. Only merit and values.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 really? Nobody assumed black people were less qualified or dumber than white people before DEI? I don't believe you're really that unaware of American history...

[CheeseMonster]

And if that was really the case, why would DEI change it? Again, DEI does not lower standards for black people. The assumption should still be that they are qualified. So why would people's assumptions suddenly change?

[Ariesman81]

DEI does actually lower standards. it is a manipulative policy designed to give undeserving and under qualified individuals a leg up. And based on the qualified black man's testimony from the above story, it is working as intended. All men are created equal, that doesn't guarantee equal outcomes.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 no, it does not. Sorry facts don't care about your feelings. That's not what DEI is.

[Ariesman81]

@CheeseMonster Part of your reply was correct

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 yes, and so was the other part. If you can't acknowledge reality, we can't have a productive conversation.

[Ariesman81]

Whose reality? The reality of the man in the story above is that his accomplishments are being second guessed because of the creation of a liberal policy known as DEI. I'm not saying the intent of DEI is malicious, some might suggest that it is, but the outcome of it is what the gentleman is experiencing. Policy creates culture. The man worked hard, made the right choices, and is being labeled unfit because of the creation of an evil policy.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 there is only one reality. The man in the story is having his accomplishments second guessed because people assume less of him. That is their fault, not his, and not DEIs. That was also going before DEI was implemented, so obviously that's not because of DEI. The only difference would be what word they use to second guess him. He worked hard, made the right choices, and is being labeled unfit by people who don't believe black people can do that. That's not DEIs fault. That's just racism. I already explained all this. This is reality, not just his and not just one. It's the reality.

[Ariesman81]

It's usually liberals saying they can't. And your idea of one reality is flawed. What it displays is your solipsism. And I've already stated that liberal DEI policy is racist ideology. Mandating someone be considered for a position based on race, gender or religion is like your mother telling the other mothers at the park that their kids need to play with you.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 again: you stating something doesn't make it true. DEI doesn't mandate people be considered because of their race, gender, or religion. People have different perspectives, but the things they see are all the same things (just viewed from different angles). You either do not understand reality or you do not understand metaphors. Either way you, at this point intentionally, do not understand DEI.

It is racist to assume black people need lower standards and need to be considered because of their race to get a job. It is not racist to try to ensure black people are considered equally with equally qualified white people in the hiring process, and that they are not dismissed because of their race.

[Ariesman81]

Agreed... it is racist to think people need help because of race, religion or gender. Which is what DEI does. Maybe not the intended outcome, but the outcome none the less.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 that is not what DEI does. It protects against privileging or discriminating against people because of race gender or religion (among other things).

[Ariesman81]

@CheeseMonster Yeah, I'm sorry but we just can't hire you at this time. We have a strict no dumbass policy at this company.

[CheeseMonster]

@Ariesman81 back to square 1: if you can't acknowledge reality, we can't have a productive conversation.

[hahahmm]

It's worse than that because if a black person is conservative then liberals will try to harm them, not hire them even if they're very qualified. For people who actually work hard it's an insult for someone to give you stuff without you earning it.

In the old days when some of this started it was different because if a University gives preference to people who have relatives who graduated from that university and 99.9999% of the graduates where white, well that wasn't fair to someone qualified who comes along and isn't white. But it wasn't called DEI back then and we're beyond that point now. They could have also just ended the preference for everyone too.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

It's harmful to everyone. They should be judged on merit to begin with, not a crutch to get into a university just for a "diversity quota".

It has actually been scientifically proven that diversity actually hurts people's rate of learning beyond 2 or 3 races in the same place too. Too much diversity just leads to racism, ironically.

[exitseven]

I went to a big urban college. Most of the black kids were there for free. They had their own student union and they had access to free tutors and counselors. It was pretty obvious that they got preferential treatment.

[SmokinAces2000]

DEI was created to ensure equal opportunities for all people. It wasn’t meant to last forever but I do think it’s far too early to get rid of it and most of the arguments I’ve heard for getting rid of it show a clear ignorance of the concept or are bias driven.

[abc3643]

Getting into college is one thing.

Succeeding in college is something else.

Test scores and grades aren't influenced by DEI.

[Kelley1]

Ideally, that is how it should work. Harvard and other elite colleges refuse to flunk out all the blacks with significantly lower IQs so they change the grading system.

[abc3643]

IQ is not a requirement for a degree. Passing all your necessary classes me getting a sufficient number of credits is the requirement to get a degree. That's all it is. Harvard and a lot of colleges are not diploma in the mills. If you don't do the work to get the good grades then you don't get the degree.

[abc3643]

God I hate shit speech recognition systems...

IQ is not a requirement for a degree. Passing all your necessary classes AND getting a sufficient number of credits is the requirement to get a degree. That's all it is. Harvard and a lot of colleges are not diploma mills. If you don't do the work to get the good grades, then you don't get the degree.

[Kelley1]

High school grades and SAT scores, (in effect IQs) are requirements to get admitted to many colleges. Moreover, you can't pass the courses without an adequate intelligence to complete the exams within the allotted time.

[abc3643]

You equate success with IQ. Nothing can be further from the truth because that doesn't account for other factors. For instance, if you have an IQ of 200 but live in squalor as an Untouchable in India, you're not going to have a good life. Simple hard work and a bit of luck are also critical to success. Trump's birth into his family was his #1 trait for success. Same with the Kennedys.

High school grades and SAT scores are also not IQ. Studying and preparation are examples of the hard work that helps achieve success in those when IQ is not there. Furthermore, IQ is not a very good metric; if you speak English but take your IQ test written in Mandarin, you're not going to do very well... That's also a counterexample of your assertion of "you can't pass the courses without an adequate intelligence to complete the exams within the allotted time." (*)

Regardless, once you are IN college, no matter how you got in there, you have to work to succeed. Having a higher IQ may help, but that's no guarantee of being more successful than someone with a lower IQ.

(*) Keep in mind that there's a difference between intelligence and knowledge.
Here's how I define them:
Knowledge is the collective body of facts that you possess.
Intelligence is the ability to assimilate new facts you become aware of and/or the ability to create new facts from the knowledge you possess.

[Kelley1]

All of that is true. Nevertheless, regardless of the exceptions, Grades, SAT scores, and success, including incomes, are highly correlated with IQs.

[abc3643]

Intuitively, I won't disagree with that assertion exactly.

But intuition is insufficient.

So... Do you have any evidence to support this:
"Grades, SAT scores, and success, including incomes, are highly correlated with IQs."
is so?

This social scientist's essay at the website for the Institute for Family Studies is something I agree with and was basically my point:

TITLE: Can Intelligence Predict Income?
Nicholas H. Wolfinger is Professor of Family and Consumer Studies and Adjunct Professor of Sociology at the University of Utah.
ifstudies.org/blog/can-intelligence-predict-income

"
I sometimes encounter people I’ve come to think of as “IQ truthers.” IQ is the magic social science variable that explains virtually every observed correlation. Racial differences? The intergenerational transmission of wealth? The effects of parenting or family structure? All of it must boil down to differences in IQ.

As a social scientist, I’m naturally resistant to single-variable theories. The world is just too complex for that. But it’s much more persuasive for me to respond with data.
...
Does IQ affect income and other measures of human accomplishment? It does—but so, too, do a lot of other things. The foregoing results suggest intelligence is not the cardinal social science variable...
"

[Kelley1]

There is plenty of proof showing that grades, SAT scores, and success, including incomes, are highly correlated with IQs. IQ tests have established that Blacks are one standard deviation below Whites and Asians. Compare that to high school grades, SAT scores, poverty, and the average incomes.

[abc3643]

Maybe that's because they live in poorer districts and, since schools are paid for by property taxes, they can't get such a good education. This is exactly one of the things the social scientist was talking about. You can't disengage things like education from IQ and success.

Young lady, you really need to keep your racism in check. I sincerely hope you do get your Mrs degree at SMU, a famously racist college, because you're not going to be able to survive in the real world. You are so racist, that it oozes out of you and you can't control it. Potential employers would consider you radioactive. To them you are a future lawsuit waiting to happen. They won't hire you, or if they do and then discover your rampant racism, they'll find a way to get rid of you. And eventually you won't be able to get a job at all.

So, yes, get married and move to Harrison Arkansas which I believe is north from where you grew up. You can feel safe being a racist in Harrison since it is the home of the KKK and has the reputation of being the most racist city in America. I've been there a few times, it's livable. Of course it's a lot more livable if you're white and racist.

[Kelley1]

Maybe this, maybe that, maybe any of a dozen arguments that have been debunked time and time again. The truth is never racist regardless of how much the truth is called racist or how much the truth is hidden and punished.

[abc3643]

May God have mercy on your soul. The real world will not

[Kelley1]

I do just fine, because knowing the truth is more successful than having false beliefs and, even more, denying the truth in the face of overwhelming evidence.

[TallAnon]

Yeah, we even had a hispanic guy that was like "I'm sure I was only hired for diversity reasons", at my last job; He was right too; He sucked at the job.

[Bklynbadboy12]

You want to hear something crazy the group of people that benefits most from DEI is middle age white women. The just did a pole on it and I was shocked by the results

[Uglygaypoorcoward94]

I don't know im a fage and I've never gotten any privileges in fact just the opposite. Nobody in my community wants to hire me

[Ladsin2]

Yes. Even if they deserve the job nobody believes they do. If you put someone in a job they're unqualified for they'll fail.

[grega239]

Its also tecnically illegal since anti disxrimination laws are a thing

[beefcakebradybatson]

WHO THE FREAK CARES? SCADS of unqualified white boys get jobs over FAR more qualified blacks !!!

[DrPepper12]

That ignorance ASSumption is on them.