i fully do. never in my life i have defended a man so hard. he's handsome AND he cares about other people's welfare? ofcourse imma back him up
Not as a protest against capitalism. But that CEO had it coming.
Health insurance is the only business model where the more you don't deliver on your service the more money you make.
I hope the rest of them live their whole lives in paranoid fear.
I won't say it was 'right' per se but it was an inevitable consequence to these shitty health care companies and i totally understand why people see him as a hero. I'll very interested to see what happens at his trial.
yeah there's no way the elite will let him out lol.
i hear he's well respected in jail though so he's not getting beaten up by other inmates or something.
he still hasn't been tried yet. he's got a great lawyer though we will see
Yeah, calm down with prayers, or I'll spot another contradiction 😏
Opinion
34Opinion
United Healthcare denies their customers’ claims at a higher rate than other Health Insurance Companies, their rates have been on the incline for decades.
These companies are publicly traded on the stock market. To investors, their customers are the product and the investors are the real consumers.
During the time of the tragic shooting of the poor CEO, we had a situation where a healthcare company wanted to cover anesthetic for HALF of surgery not even the full surgery so, customers would have to pay out of pocket for the rest after paying years to decades for coverage only for the policy to change and left with nothing they could do about it.
Insurance in this country is more than anywhere else, the cost of Healthcare from hospitals, doctor’s offices, urgent care, and so on is too damn high, practically growing everyday compared to other countries.
FOX NEWS (A Corporate Owned Mainstream Media Channel Like MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, and more) pushed recently that HIV Vaccinations came about thanks to Big Pharma . Literally last week on live broadcast they thanked Big Pharma.
The media wants us to be divided, unaware of issues plaguing our society, not be open minded, not wanting us to talk to one another or stand up for the little guy because when we unite, unionize, speak up, stand in solidarity, call out shady business practice, etc. WE WIN lower healthcare costs, lower rent costs, lower grocery prices, 5 day work week, early retirement, fire safety codes, and so much more. The power is in our hands so, utilize that power for good not evil. Stand for your fellow man and fellow woman, the time is our time! There is nothing outside our reach when we have determination and people willing to put in the effort to make real positive change.
Note: The only good protest is a peaceful protest, an effective way to make your voices heard is by voting and sharing issues that matter to you + being open minded to solutions, speak up for others, and continue putting in the good work at your local communities to protect the most vulnerable. I do not comment specifically on Luigi, rather than shift the conversation to a meaningful forum since this issue is bigger than one man or one CEO, it is about how f-cked up our systems are in place and how we can go about fixing it.
You want lower heathcare costs? Universal Healthcare and adequate hospitals. Doctors have to treat people who don't and can't pay. So the costs of those who can pay goes up. Insurance means you'll go for preventive care, which means fewer emergency room visits and therefore healthier people. I once went to the ER and since I wasn't visibly in danger of death, I was told that I might be seen in 14 hours.
@Twalli 1. Universal Healthcare like European Nations have implemented, agreed 100% agree with you
2. Adequate hospitals, damn straight.
“he's handsome AND he cares about other people's welfare…..”
He is handsome. Yeah that is always extremely important when it comes to determining if someone “acted right”.
So what if he was hideously ugly, old and overweight? Would you “support” him as vigorously as you do?
And shooting people in the back (and that CEO was a husband and father) and running away like a true piece of sh*t coward is always “caring about other people’s welfare”. Right?
You know a far left democratic politician in Minnesota and her husband were both murdered by a far right nut job. While I personally hate the democrat party I would never condone murder. Ever.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna212831
I wouldn’t care if it was a beautiful female supermodel who blew AOC’s head off. I do not condone political violence.
But modern leftists are beyond deranged and absolutely disgusting. They justify anything and everything when they don’t get their way. And you are completely one of them @anon1903
your feelings are a symptom of the wealth coagulating to fewer people. It's a real problem and is a symptom of the corrupt currency system we've had in place for long time that drives wealth to the hands of a few.
If you keep following that logic emotion, eventually it's ok to chop off the heads of a bunch like they did in france, or shoot whole families like they did in russia and all over the place, etc etc.. You'll be ok with what Hitler did... depending upon whom the whipping persons are.
It may seem ok until it's someone you know being successful gets shot for whatever reasons of the other.
We really need to deal with the wealth disparity. That will be the challenge of your lifetime. You didn't ask for it, it is a matter of timing in your life. So study up on equitable solutions.
I'll give him this, it appears Luigi understood what is going on and takes some awareness to do that. I don't agree with what he did.
I have to believe AI will do even more damage. Maybe Andrew Chang is right conceptually.
God help us all... history of these patterns is not good... hopefully we can do better.
In a ideal world there should be a better way but in the American system I feel like he did what he could.
I'm glad I live in a country where health care is affordable. If you have literally no money and you go on welfare they will pay for your rent, food and health insurance and some extra for other living expenses. And the insurance actually pays for your expenses if you get sick. There is some paperwork and stuff involved at the start but once you're in the system and if you follow the rules they will pay you every month. I even was able to save up some money while I was on welfare because I only spent money and food and pretty much nothing else.
Regular people will have to pay but it's not insane if you just need basic coverage.
And yes I have seen V for Vendetta one of my favorite movies.
u I don't think it was right, I don't support it
but... BUT, but...
but... what he did was less worse than the things that CEO did... and that company will continue to do so, by the hundreds and thousands of cases every year, but yes, that's American capitalism
i'm not against capitalism per see but i do support him. health corporations should serve the public interest before profit. brian was actually a terrible person and his company is more of racketeering scheme than a decent healthcare provider, he deserved it. if the evil greedy selfish elites feared for their lives more and could be taken out at times if they didn't behave more ethically, society would be a better place.
u Yes. What he did is so incredibly tiny in comparison to the evil that CEO’s like that have done. I couldn’t care less about his appearance though, I think the people who send him love letters while he’s in prison are strange lol.
I'm actually a fan, not because of the dumb commie shit he had in his head but he knew that corporations are our enemies even if he got his ideology out of a box of cracker jacks. Mangione gets it on a basic level. Too bad he didn't aim a little higher like high up in the banking field. That would have been legendary.
If he'd actually achieved something, then you could make the case that the ends justified the means, but absolutely nothing has changed.
All he did was murder some random guy, who was basically just doing his job. Expecting the CEO of any company, in any industry, to prioritize ethics ahead of profits, is simply unrealistic - it's up to regulators and lawmakers to force them to (that's why they exist). People should be asking why regulators have allowed the insurance companies to behave in this way, and should be more worried about Trump's attempts to do away with industry regulators.
Killing is wrong. Including killing the CEO, but Luigi was right in that the CEO had killed more people by denying coverage for profit than anyone with a firearm ever could.
Not unlike Trump killing millions by cancelling USAID, which also ruins decades of goodwill to the US in the world, and tens of thousands of Americans every year with the Medicaid cuts, even before the Medicare cuts happen.
The right-wing talking point is that "everybody dies"; I ask them: so what's wrong with abortions, again?
Support him? I recognize that he is inevitable. As the wealth gap increases because the 1% want more, people like Luigi will become more and more common. Until finally the 1% are dragged into the streets and dealt with. The cycle will complete itself the same way it has always completed itself.
@Twalli ,
And it's true Luigi wasn't poor. His family is only upper middle class. Not filthy rich billionaires. And that should scare the crap out of you and anyone in the middle class. Being "better off" doesn't get you in the club. Being "much better off" doesn't get you in the club. They want all of you to pay health insurance premiums and then die. They aren't just fucking over the powerless poor and lower middle class. They are fucking over and killing anyone who isn't part of the 1%. Because profits must increase to raise share prices. That's the the system we live in. Is that the system we should be living in?
I am ofvthe 1%, but the 1% is different than most people think. We're more than comfortable financially, but we don't all have massive displays of wealth, especially if we aren't old money. What people think of as the 1% is really the 10% of the 1%. The richest of the rich. They're the ones you see as the upper class, but they're even the minority of us.
It was bound to happen and I don't blame him, because Government is the one to blame. They've fixed the system and stopped such practices but they didn't. So it's no shock someone is going to go kill for it, and kill the guy ahead of a company that thrives on a broken system.
Sorry, but I'm a hard 'No' on this one. In most areas, anyone who needs medical care can get it, without paying a dime. It's called going to the emergency room. I've never had health insurance in my life, and I've been treated for various reasons in multiple cities.
I mean, don't get me wrong; I wish a lot of services were more affordable and more readily available, but once you go out on that ledge, conceding more and more control over things like healthcare to the government, it never ends well, and you up with people like this 'Madman-i' character in NYC. I know everyone's tired of hearing it, but socialism has never, ever even once in the history of humanity, worked. Not once. In fact, from what I understand, countries that have adopted government sponsored healthcare, like the U. K. and Canada, have actually seen their longevity rates decline, due to shoddy care, and many Canadians who can afford it come to America for their medical care.
Why not just become more successful yourself? Depending on where you live, you may not need as much money to be happy as you think. I don't have a day's education beyond high school, and I've done alright. I'm not wealthy, by any means, but I'm healthy, happy and living on a beautiful tropical island.
When we get out of school, we see older folks who live in nicer neighborhoods than our own, who drive late model cars that seem unattainable to us, and we're angry. We say it's not fair. I said it, when I was sleeping on floors and living on cheap junk food in Chicago, in the mid to late 80's, trying to make it as a musician. I said, 'Old men have everything, and young men have nothing', but you have no concept of time when you're 21 years old. You don't realize that those old guys worked for decades and saved their money, while still owing tens of thousands of dollars on their homes. Now. I read the same complaints from young guys today that I made then, but when we try to redistribute the proverbial pie, the size of the pie never stays the same, because the incentive to be successful has been taken away. One of the smartest decisions I've ever made was to skip college, because I don't belong to any tribe.
Nope. Violence is not the answer. Murdering people in cold blood because you don’t like them is how civilization crumbles. We have laws for good reason.
He’s nothing more than a murderous thug. There is no “cause”. He should spend the rest of his life in prison. Where his cell mates will appreciate how pretty he is more than you ever could. Ell oh ell!
@anon1903 You support murdering someone, shooting a man in the back, and running away like the fucking coward he is... as a protest against anything? Especially capitalism?
Honest to god, I cannot really believe you wrote such an insane statement?
@anon1903 My brother was a nurse working at Wellstar in Atlanta, Ga. I have been in hospitals... and have never seen 'inhuman' treatment of anyone, by anyone
and you still want us to believe that you think cold blooded murder is justified because some idiot thinks the CEO of a health insurance company has the sum total responsibility for everything wrong with the healtlhcare system?
@anon1903 My brother was a nurse working at Wellstar in Atlanta, Ga. I have been in hospitals... and have never seen 'inhuman' treatment of anyone, by anyone
and you still want us to believe that you think cold blooded murder is justified because some idiot thinks the CEO of a health insurance company has the sum total responsibility for everything wrong with the healthcare system?
I don't generally support murder. So there's that.
But like I don't feel as upset about it as I might have if the guy wasn't like crazy rich from having failed to provide people the care they literally paid for in the first place. So there's that.
Suffice to say, I would prefer other methods (again, murder = bad), but I agree that there's a problem that deserves significant public attention and that was certainly one way to go about it.
Let me get this straight you support a man killing another man for 2 reasons. The first reason is that he’s cute and the second is you are a firm believer in 2 wrongs make a right, is this correct? This is what you just wrote and I just want you to confirm with you that this is indeed how you justify a murder.
It’s a wild take but I will wait for your confirmation before I get into it.
Man, there is a lot to unpack with this whole thing. I usually would go pretty hard on something like this. It’s just… I honestly am struggling to find the correct words. You do understand that nothing that he did would be protest against capitalism, right? And please don’t get me wrong, I normally would not be leaning towards a CEOs side. I think large corporations are typically filled with executive scumbags. What I do have a problem with is a man thinking he can just shoot another man in the back. It doesn’t really matter the reason. That’s a very cowardly way of dealing with a problem you feel that strongly about. No one has the right to end another persons life unless they are a direct risk of hurting you, your spouse (if you have one) and your kids. I feel if someone breaks into your house or something, you have a right to protect your family. I don’t think shooting someone on the street is honorable at all.
I am sure he has a lot of great qualities. I am sure there was a ton of stuff that he did in his personal life that were admirable. I wouldn’t want to take that away from him. But there isn’t that many things in my opinion that are inexcusable. My top 2 things is harming children and cold blooded murder. I know you feel strongly about what he did but that’s just not the way to deal with things you don’t agree with. You can’t take another persons life because you don’t like the decisions he made. I think he could have actually made a difference if he would have handled that situation properly. That’s not how you make change and that’s not a protest against capitalism.
Well I definitely don’t want to argue with you on your post so I will just add one other thing to your last reply. I don’t want to assume you’re just fucking with me now because I am unsure really. But if you’re not fucking with me and you are serious about your last reply I really want you to understand it honestly, truthfully, zero bull shit has absolutely nothing to do with perspective. It really doesn’t. It’s written and taught countless times absolutely everywhere you look. Cold blooded murder is about as serious of a crime as you can get in eyes of the law. That’s a no bullshit crime. Again, I don’t want to push all this too hard on your post so I’ll stop now. I just can’t stress this enough.
Anyway, I hope you have a good night.
I mean, yes. I suppose we can.
It is very much a historic rhyme of French revolution with the saying "let them eat cake."
That is the beautiful nature of jury of peers. It's an uphill battle to justify the action of insurance companies with how evil they are.
Not one bit. Killing someone is not a valid form of protest. The CEO was trying to reform the company he was in charge of to provide better service to their customers. Now Blackrock is trying to undo those efforts by suing the company. So if anything he made it worse for the consumer.
Talking about government hospitals , I seen how they look like outside the western world and been inside them , shortages of medicines , how the government hospitals look old and how the private hospitals have better services. It’s unfortunate and unjust there’s inequality of healthcare.
This was bound to happen, and bound to happen again a lot of fragile and elderly populations are about to lose health insurance because of the big beautiful bill
I hope the people who voted for it are aware everyone and their dog has a gun and is mentally ill
That’s not how you “protest”. He could have raised awareness of the isuue (s) without committing murder.
We should not be legitimizing murder as a tool resolving disputes or ameliorating perceived social or economic injustices.
Even if someone is very evil, it does not excuse assassinating them. Luigi was completely wrong
In this case? The system needs to be changed, and there should law aganist practices that which are currently allowed.
I'm pretty sure in any view, at the moment all the law does is allow those to profit from others health issues.
Which I don't think anyone in good faith would aruge that's a good thing.
Therefore why does the government allow this to happen?
Whether it be merely one person effected or thousands it shouldn't be an allowed practice.
And if the system was different, this wouldn't of happened in the first place.
As to other cases, there is to many to say. But I think in general we should always strive for the greater good right?
If killing said person stops others dying then seems to be a positive.
In this case that didn't happen since ya know some other Ceo will just carry on in his place. However that don't mean we should just accept it.
We should be blaming the government for allowing it to go on. Not luigi or even the Ceo, though the Ceo is part of the problem. Luigi was not. He was a victim who acted out, which shouldn't be a susprise to anyone.
I like how you are approaching this. The question is not what is legal or not. The question is what is moral? And if the government is doing immoral things then they should be stopped. 100%
I think that's our duty and responsibility as citizens to hold the government accountable. We can never do it perfectly, but we are the only ones who can do it.
So what moral system would we use when judging whether the laws and the government are doing the right thing? How do you pick?
Hmm no actually, it's not a separate thing I'm not arguing for a moral system really just pointing out that the law still has harmful laws.
Law has progressed far with outlawing bad ethical practices, and it's decided this over the course naturally by lawmakers and voters etc. And it's fairly obvious when something is a bad practice because all one has to do is figure out what effect and cause does this have.
Which to go back to this case... what cause and effect does the law have by having Healthcare Insurance ran by for profit companies?
It gets people killed, it creates stress, it creates violence, it creates wealth for those who value money over lives, creates unstable outcomes, etc.
Seems to me these aren't a good thing for society so why would our laws stay to protect this? And law along with society which this is a big point likes stability, yet this seems afront to it even if one decided to not care it hurts people, objectively it creates chaos.
Then for whatever reason, the Media or Government want you to blame The Effect not the cause. Which I assume is amounted to corruption because I don't see much logical rational reason why one would want The Cause in the first place unless it puts profit into their hands.
Which for Media it clearly does more chaos, more to report on, more fearmongering headlines. As to Government I imagine private lobbying.
With this all be said I would like to return to the very original point, of you saying Luigi was completely wrong, was he tho, or was he a natural outcome of what others caused? Which then who can blame him really. And if corruption is happening, typically and as shown through time only loud responses change things.
Though it's annoying too because it creates the divide Media wants, and it's just a repeating cycle. It even pushes people to then somehow defend these for Profit Health Insurance companies. Because extremism goes both ways.
You said you're not pushing for a particular moral system, but spent a lot of time saying what is good and bad. That seems contradictory to me unless I miss understanding something. So isn't there an actual moral standard you're using even if it's not fully defined?
As for Luigi, I don't think his actions can be justified. Even if the healthcare CEO was completely corrupt and personally decided to screw Luigi over, it doesn't mean killing him is the right response.
I explained why it's bad and why it is even without morals. I don't see how that contradicts it's self. Even AI void of emotions would calculate for a society of humans to live together the outcome is negative to have Health Insurance for profit companies.
The answer to laws need to be objective first then emotional. Which is why I don't aruge for a moral system really. Otherwise we would get It's a law you can't cheat and if you do prison time for you. Easiest example I could think of, but there would be much more even dumber reasons to arrest people etc by such metric of a moral absolute laws, and highly subjective.
It's justified by the fact it was made to happen, by psychological circumstances and manipulation of law and society.
If you backed an animal into a corner and it attacked you, would you blame the animal?
Humans are just animals after all. Not saying we don't have choices because we do. But in certain circumstances the choice is heavily bias to a natural outcome that something else caused. Which applies very much to this case. It was bound to happen by us letting this being allowed. So we can't be shocked or say woah that was so unpredictable, and wrong, because reality is, we should've seen it coming?
And the fact government didn't prevent this, makes it their fault very much in this case.
I think the issue is that it makes no sense to say anything at all is 'good' or 'bad' unless you are appealing to a morality.
Do you think if something is objectively morally wrong, it needs to have a law forbidding it?
Oh, yeah I totally agree that when you back someone into a corner they will lash out. That makes it understandable, but not necessarily excusable.
Good and bad are not synammous with morality at all. Otherwise hey I guess me thinking pizza is good is somehow a moral point?
Good and bad have nothing to do with morality. It has to do whether the outcome is negative or positive to the perspective given.
And... Tbere is no such thing as objectivily morally wrong. That's an oxymoron.
There are several meanings when we say the word 'good'. A thing can be good because it functions towards its proper end. Eg, a good car drives well, a good house provides quality shelter, etc.
Then there is the sense of good whereby we mean that something is appealing to us in some way. Eg, a good orchestra was one we liked, a good meal was tasty, etc.
You'll notice that these two are not mutually exclusive, and often can be said of the same thing. The first one is usually a prerequisite for the second, but not always.
The next sense of good is moral. An action is called good when it is susceptible to judgement and in line with upright behaviour. This is also where we get the sense of the word when we call a law good or a cultural practice good. It's parts of the custom that encourage good behavior and discourage and/or punish bad behavior.
So the words good and bad absolutely are part of the way we describe an action to be moral or not. The question then becomes, what is the standard of what is good and bad?
It can't just be something as simplistic as positive or negative because what is considered positive by one person could be a negative to someone else.
If one person makes money by exploiting someone else, then it's a negative for the second person but a positive for the first person. Whose to say if it's good or bad?
I don't see where the oxymoron is in that last sentence. Can you explain it?
Actually yes it can. That is good based on the perspective of the scammer and bad on the one who got scammed.
Like I said it matters on the perspective. Which my point was about the perspective of government control and running a society. To run a society the negative is lack of stability and funding.
Which you'll find letting a outside company, that been a health insurance for profit letting those die and cause suffering, leads to chaos which in turn is negative for that stability. And leads to Luigi another not stable outcome.
In the perspective of running a country you want stable predictable outcomes. It's not much different to investing. You would rather have stable growth than random swings.
As to the Oxymoron... Good and bad are dependent on our perspective. They wouldn't exist without us. If we go back before creatures with social intelligence exist what would be deeming good or bad?
How would gas or rocks or bacteria think something is bad or good? The answer is they don't. Without our adaptive thinking good and bad cease to be.
So unless you're a god believer the idea of good and bad been objective makes no sense. If you do believe in a god and think the universe is designed to be good... Well I don't speak on beliefs I go by facts so I can't and won't bother to aruge on that.
Only teenage girls and broke ass people glorify him, you sound like both.
This is as ironic as it gets.
You dislike how the poir are treated in your (some friend of yours works at?) hospital? TREAT THEM BETTER. The CEOs aren't the ones providing care.
Assassination like that is obviously not right; If people assassinated anyone they disagreed with, we'd have no one left. This is why we have laws.
If you disagree.. I'd have the right to assassinate you.
Well if anything its a warning CEOs who practice buisness like he did. That if you destroy people's lives that just because you did it legally it doesn't mean you won't be held accountable one day.
Yes, the CEO killed far more people, he just didn't do it in broad daylight or an illegal way. So idiots justify it.
If he can decide for himself whether he takes the life of another, I suppose I can decide for myslef whether I can take your life, then? Or what makes it okay for him to do it but not others?
I suppose it's no coincidence you aren't engaging with the point, though.
The point is that you're likely being selective. You likely aren't okay with random people deciding go kill people because they think they should, but you support this guy doing it because you happen to agree with his perspective. You don't want to live in a world where it is legal for people to kill people that they think they should.
Absolutely not, it was murder plain and simple. You can protest without resorting to violence, but most "activists" don't want to admit that. They would rather just incite violence
Yes he was right but insurance is not capitalism. It's the pinical of communism
Yes he was right in what he done, but there are many more to go.
Sure do, and if I had real money, I'd lay a couple of thou on him.
What kind of depraved asshole supports cold blooded murder?
What he did was no different to what pest exterminators do every day. One less parasite.
He didn't shoot the CEO for anyone else but himself. If you think this was selfless and for the benefit of others, you're delusional.
He is a rich daddy’s son and a coward. For shooting someone in the back!
Because he murdered another human in cold blood! The Democrats haven’t released him yet.
No, that does not make sense. So if someone assassinates the socialist leader of Venezuela as a protest against socialism you would be okay with that?
You are sick & need help
Nope. He’s just a murderer
MURDER ONE? NO.
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