Who is pro life and who is pro choice?

[Anonymous]

Updates

2 mo

Question for Pro life guys:

What do you think about what’s happening in Gaza to kids?

Starvation death.
Hunger death.
Etc

[nightdrot]

Put me down as pro-life.

The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.

A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.

We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)

Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.

This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.

Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.

Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.

[slatyb]

It's not the value of human life -- people who are pro-choice have a different of the idea of what makes a human. the notion that a 12-week embryo is a person is scientifically absurd.

[nightdrot]

@slatyb Then what is it and what else can it be? It won't become a cat. The outcome traces back to the origin and a thing cannot be other than what it is.

[slatyb]

It's a fetus without a shred of consciousness.

[Anonymous]

was pro-choice but later became pro-life after seeing pro-choicers acting like violent hooligans who couldn't be reasoned with

and also the pro-life arguments are logically more consistent i. e. double homicide for a murdered pregnant woman

pro-choicers make more arguments for pro-abortion than actual choice

I'd imagine a huge reason Charlie Kirk was hated and ultimately assassinated was for his pro-life views more than any of this other views

[Opinion Owner]

what's happening in Gaza shouldn't happen

[Crimsyjo]

Pro choice all the way. You can't be pro life without considering how to give that life a quality life and a meaningful one outside of just existing for the sake of existence.

Even majority of those living wish they weren't these days. Thats how miserable life is.

[katiesmuff]

Fantastic reply!!

[Kelley1]

In a free country, whoever makes something should own it. At least until others have an investment.

[Kelley1]

Thank you for the MHO.

[AviatorTom]

These two terms are often misused, have confusing meanings, and may even be hypocritical.

Pro life generally means anti-abortion. Many people who are pro-life believe in the sanctity of life, that terminating a pregnancy is wrong, yet many are in favor of the death penalty, and say there are exceptions (ex: rape, incest, health of the mother) where abortion is okay.

Pro choice generally means for allowing abortion. Terminating a pregnancy is okay, yet many who are pro choice are against the death penalty.

I don't use either term to describe me.

I believe that a decidion to abort or not is a very personal choice, a decision that should involve the pregnant woman and her doctor, and should be allowed up to the point where the fetus is viable, can survive on its own, outside the womb, without extraordinary medical assistance. That is typically around 30 weeks gestation. After that time, abortion should only be allowed in specific medical circumstances, as determined by the woman's doctor.

[Twalli]

All abortions at 28 weeks and later are to save the woman's life.

[msc545]

@Twalli No, they are mostly for the convenience of the woman at that point.

[exitseven]

@Twalli How about the ones that happen after the baby is born?

[Lliam]

100% pro-choice with limitations on abortions after the first trimester and penalties for using serial abortion as a form of birth control.

People shouldn't be ruled by other people's religious beliefs.
And I'm sick of people who don't care about human life but get emotional about fetuses.

[bddddd]

Am I allowed to be neither? I think governments forcing women to carry children they don't want is terrible for both the mother and the child. Choice is the only moral option. But... when you look at the number of abortions performed in Western countries it is hard not to conclude that large numbers of women see abortion as a first option, not a last option; that they do not value the life of the unborn foetus at all. There is something very immoral in some of those choices. Use contraception friends. Abortion should be a last resort choice.

[Tarifa]

Pro life. Abortion should not be regarded as an anti-conception method, although I understand the trauma involved with unwanted pregnancy.

I'm pro abortion in flagrant cases of abuse, like rape and incest. That would be condemning both the mother and child to a life they don't want.

[Twalli]

No other cases, like to save the woman's life?

[Tarifa]

@Twalli Yes, of course.

[DJB72]

Society is judged based on how it treats it's most vulnerable members.

Who is more vulnerable than a baby in utero?

If the world is still around a hundred years from now the holocaust of babies slaughtered in the name of convenience will be remembered as humanity's darkest time.

Not Mao. Not Stalin. Not Hitler.

[Twalli]

Really? How is organized killing of sentient life better?

[Sevenpointfive]

@Twalli it's not exactly the same without an example.

[Twalli]

@Sevenpointfive Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Armenian genocide? Take your pick. I have others.

[Sevenpointfive]

@Twalli not the same. we are talking only babies. war and genocide doesn't discriminate

[Twalli]

@Sevenpointfive A lot of people were killed, and nobody argues that they were legitimate people.

[Sevenpointfive]

@Twalli casualties of war and aborted babies don't seem the same to me.

[DJB72]

@Sevenpointfive that's because the propaganda of the last 60 years has been fed to you effectively...

[Twalli]

@Sevenpointfive a genocide goes so far beyond war casualties. Most killed weren't even part of the war.

[DJB72]

No aborted babies ever fought in a war. It doesn't stop their deaths being a genocide that is more extreme than anything in history.

[Apple1996]

Pro choice especially after becoming a mom i fully understand how risky and difficult pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child for 18 years really is. No women should be forced to keep a baby if she doesn't want to

[exitseven]

I used to be pro choice but I know somebody that had twins prematurely. These kids were born 12 weeks too early. They were barely 2 pounds at birth and had to spend the next 10 weeks in the hospital. Two years later and these kids are healthy and happy and running around like any other kid.

It made me think about all the babies that have been aborted 12 weeks and less before their due date. I have changed my mind on the issue.

[Amy10223]

Those twins being born early are not unwanted. They are wanted by parents, but came too early. Not the same as a woman carrying a fetus after being raped by a criminal.

[exitseven]

@Amy10223 I visited these little guys in the hospital. The barely looked human but they were able to squeeze my finger. Just because somebody is born to somebody who does not want it should not be a death sentence.

[msc545]

"Just because somebody is born to somebody who does not want it should not be a death sentence."

VERY well said!

[katiesmuff]

Pro Choice which in no way makes me pro abortion! I believe women should have the right and make that decision between themselves, their heart and their god!

As for Gaza it is a whole different shit show and I can't imagine any human being outside of our president wanting to see children maimed and killed in a terrible war, however that is what happens in war.

[Shiprex]

It should be pro choice and there should be no expectation that a man who doesn't want a child should pay for a woman who gets pregnant "accidentally" on purpose when it's safer to terminate than go through with a birth.

Child support should only be when a parent chooses to be involved

[Anonymous]

Pro-lifer who opposes abortion (mothers life is in danger) and the death penalty. You're update about Gaza, I do NOT support Israel and what they are doing to Palestine. No unborn fetus should suffer because someone was careless during sex. While I'm pro-life, I'm also pro-birth control.

[Tamera952]

Pro CHOICE. Pro ABORTION — the more the merrier. Abort, abort, abort!! We should be paying for peoples abortions. We should give them out like candy. There’s already too many people, you should worry about the ones that are already here.

[Twalli]

That's my view, if you are unable to adopt because you're seen as unfit to be a parent (we need to get rid of the criminal record part of denying the ability to adopt), you shouldn't be allowed to procreate.

[Tamera952]

I could literally care less. I have no idea why people obsess over this. I thinks it is nobody business, that women should have them whenever, however, as many as they want/need without any interference whatsoever. I trust women to make their own decision about their body, without any outside input.

[Celticwolf78]

I'm pro-choice what ever she decides I'll be there with her all the way

[Anonymous]

Pro-choice people are religious fanatics who want to impose their dogma upon women. They are out of step with the vast majority of the rest of people on the planet.

[Opinion Owner]

@TheWombRaider I mistyped. We all know that pro-lifers are the fanatics.

[foxsquirrell]

With reference to abort you mean? If that is the case my answer is that it depends on which stage the pregnancy is when there is no reason to terminate the pregnancy. Such as health issues, in which case it is obvious to me that the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy at any stage.

[FunkyMonkee]

Well, the pro-lifers think abortion is wrong and don't like it when women get one.
The pro-choice people think it's up to the individual in pregnancy to decide if an abortion should be performed.

[matchrestore]

I'm pro-choice and regularly donate to a local non-profit that helps cover travel and lodging costs for women who would otherwise not be able to access abortion care at our local clinic.

[JohnnyB123321]

I’m a little of both. Abortions late are not ok with me. But I’ve had some pig choke down plan b because she didn’t say I had to pull out. That’s not exactly pro life. Way early is ok to me. It shouldn’t be birth control though. Especially when it’s got a working brain etc. I would never have asked a girl to get an abortion but I’d also not tell her she can’t. I’d want to have the child and I’d just take it if she didn’t want it. I’d figure it out.

[ohsheeT]

For me and me only I'm pro life.

But I still believe a woman has the right to do what ever she wants

I would tell her what I would do but that's me she has the same right

[Twalli]

Most pro-choice people are like this. My mom is pro-life in her personal life, but it is her choice, and not anyone else's. She feels that everyone should have that choice.

[ohsheeT]

Yes i agree I have 2 of the most beautiful kids well adults kids. And they are bother the best thing in the world that has ever happened to me

For what ever the reason is a women doesn't want to carry her child to term is her business

But can can also say for rape victims have that right

But a girlfriend boyfriend that before they started made a choice or 2 people just out fucking around and use it as living birth control are totally wrong but they have to live with the choices in life they make

For me it's wrong

And for any young girl reading this you are the boss of your body today and forever just because a boy says he love you and doesn't want to wear protection. He is a liar. The boy that truly loves you will always protect you and you will do the same for him

There are millions of girls that had to find out the hard way they were just being used

[ohsheeT]

I would probably die if I seen the things that happened or happening to kids in gaza.

[Anonymous]

Pro life is a misnomer - they're pro-"birth". After that you're on your own, and so is the kid. I'm pro bodily autonomy. Women do not easily decide to have abortions as portrayed, and no, I don't think it's murder so if you come at me with that argument, you're wasting your time.

[Titanic1912]

I’m pro-life and I’ve always been pro-life. Babies don’t choose to die. If a woman doesn’t want a baby, she shouldn’t have sex! Abortion clinics need to be defunded and unborn babies should be defended!

[Twalli]

And when women who could have survived if they had abortions start dying, tell me how that is better.

[mysteriousNicholas]

@Kelly6 I'm not American, yet I'm pro-choice. Abortion is legal in my country, as far as I'm aware, even with the states and (the) territories

[mysteriousNicholas]

@Kelly6 surely Kelly had you been British or Australian, or even Californian, you'd have been pro-choice and proudly caucasian like me 👀😋 with multiracial friends , as I know I have (only two of my friends are white) 😁

[Hardon-Collider]

I am pro closet. Do your think but I do not consent to seeing castrations and abortions. Make abominations gross again.

[Bricealan]

I am always for life, but I am also in favor of a woman's right to choose if she wants to, bear and unplanned pregnancy.

[Twalli]

I support lives that have already achieved sentience. So pro-life in that sense. I also think that I shouldn't have any business in anyone else's reproductive tract but my girlfriend's.

[msc545]

Define "sentience".

[Twalli]

@msc545 conscious brain activity. The ability to communicate wants. Babies can, but all they know how to is by crying. They are still communicating want.

[msc545]

Define "conscious", and define "brain activity".

[Twalli]

@msc545 Do you need a dictionary?

[jahaims]

I'm both. I think it is morally wrong to kill a baby but it is also morally wrong to get pregnant when you are too trashy to raise a child in a healthy way

[BCRanger10]

I am staunchly and firmly pro-life.

[WonderingManII]

Pro Life, and I'm not going to argue with anyone about it.

[RedInnocent69]

Pro choice is pro life, it’s a matter of perspective

[whiskeyontherocks]

Personally I’m pro life…
But politically pro choice.

[blackeagle007]

Pro choice. Who am I to tell a woman what to do with her body?

[dougeats]

Pro Choice as in her choice to do what she likes in her life

[leahzrc]

I am pro life but I had an abortion before it

[Twalli]

And it was your choice. You weren't forced into it.

[WhatIsYourZodiac]

It has to be pro choice. A person should have the right to choose what's best for them.

[Anonymous]

Pro choice, always have been, always will be.

[Opinion Owner]

We can't allow religious fanatics to impose their rules on the society.

[Opinion Owner]

Women have rights, and I support them.

[XXblack88]

Pro life

[OlderAndWiser]

Pro-life

[Flower2006]

Pro choice is the only way

[Anonymous]

Pro life always..

[douride2]

Pro choice.

[blondfrog]

Pro life with very rare exceptions.

[Sal_Monella]

I oppose abortion, with certain fine print.

[Sal_Monella]

When you bring war to an enemy, you cannot restrain what he does. To the extent that there is truth to any of your dribbling. Hamas brought this hell y Margo Cheney's house to Gotta be. It couldn't be anything else. Gaza.

[Sal_Monella]

delete y Margo Cheney's house to Gotta be. It couldn't be anything else. Loud TV

[dustybiker2]

Pro choice always

[Jerre]

Pro Choice for me

[msc545]

I am pro life. Abortion is murder.

[Enginn]

I'm a pro overall :D Pro lifer

[FenixG45]

Pro-choice generally speaking

[FenixG45]

What does Gaza have to do Pro-Life?

[jshm2]

Depends.

[Braylee]

pro choice

[Ninania]

Pro choice.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Pro life

[Anonymous]

I’m pro-choice.

[DrPepper12]

I am both.