Is there a moral equivalence between abortion and the death penalty?

Question

Is there a moral equivalence between abortion and the death penalty? Or, for that matter, immigration, climate change, or other such matters? If so, what is it?

A few weeks ago, Pope Leo XIV made this statement while weighing in on a controversy involving Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago and Senator Dick Durbin...

Long story short, I can and do - in good faith and conscience - disagree with this statement, as do many previous popes, saints, and moral theologians and philosophers.

For one thing, the object, moral weight, and circumstances are not the same. And for another, quite simply, 99 times out of 100, you will not hear the language reversed from supporters of this way of thinking, often called the "seamless garment theory" or "consistent life ethic"; here's an article about the latter point.

But maybe I'm wrong? What is the moral equivalence between abortion and other issues?

contentious · Accepted Answer

Leviticus 20

Punishment for Child Sacrifice
20 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3 I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. 4 And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, 5 then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.

6 “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people. 7 Consecrate yourselves, therefore, and be holy, for I am the Lord your God. 8 Keep my statutes and do them; I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 9 For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

Punishments for Sexual Immorality
10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of[a] his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

17 “If a man takes his sister, a daughter of his father or a daughter of his mother, and sees her nakedness, and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace, and they shall be cut off in the sight of the children of their people. He has uncovered his sister's nakedness, and he shall bear his iniquity. 18 If a man lies with a woman during her menstrual period and uncovers her nakedness, he has made naked her fountain, and she has uncovered the fountain of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from among their people. 19 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister or of your father's sister, for that is to make naked one's relative; they shall bear their iniquity. 20 If a man lies with his uncle's wife, he has uncovered his uncle's nakedness; they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless. 21 If a man takes his brother's wife, it is impurity.[b] He has uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

You Shall Be Holy
22 “You shall therefore keep all my statutes and all my rules and do them, that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them. 24 But I have said to you, ‘You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.’ I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean, and the unclean bird from the clean. You shall not make yourselves detestable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground crawls, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. 26 You shall be holy to me, for I the Lord am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine.

27 “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

Levin · Accepted Answer

So we are dealing with moral nuance here.

The death penalty is problematic for a number of reasons. The major issue is it's administered by an agency of the state, and I would not trust the state to run a bath. Also, there is also the risk of killing an innocent person, which no matter no small, it does happen.

I don't get the general obsession with killing people. It seems brutish, bloodthirsty and based on revenge. If you're better than those who have committed these most heinous crimes, I don't see why you would need to call for blood. Just stick them in jail and let them rot. Recently we had a case where a teenager had killed another teenager and got 16 years. He brought a knife into school. Should have got double that. More the problem in the UK is there is no such thing as justice. Ordinary hard working people are harassed and harangued by the state. Those who have committed grave crimes will be out before they know it.

Abortion is an interesting topic and I can definitely see the 'right-wing' perspective on this. Through meditation practice I got a flashback of my own 'ensoulment' and birth. Obviously when you have that experience, I'm quite convinced of the sanctity of life. The problem is scientific materialist philosophies are the unconscious lens through which all of these questions are seen. If it's just a 'clump of cells' then obviously it seems less of a moral decision. I also find it curious, I heard a statistic recently, that there are 250000 abortions each year in the UK (I'm not sure if that would include the morning after pill). I find that an incredible and unbelievable amount. But we seem obsessed with importing the third world and then creating such a hostile environment where we kill our own. Society is really falling. But again, moral complexity. What if people are raped or groomed? Why should they have to endure that birth? Personally, and this is the other incredible thing. In the UK, I believe you can abort at 24 weeks. Well, I know someone who has a child who was born at 23 weeks. So 24 weeks is a 'viable' life as far as I am concerned. Clearly that needs to be slashed to say, 12 or 16 weeks at most. Also, we need far better education, far better society. We are we aborting so many children. Why does it seem to be used as a birth control. There is quite an incredible clip of this minor former celebrity/popstar who admitted to having 5 abortions. Watch it because it is quite something. This is the sickness in society.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/RlyDQ-nfjy4

Obviously, I'm not particularly interested in anything the Pope says, but it seems like another woke Pope.

Kelley1 · Accepted Answer

Not even close. Abortion is if you made it, you own it. The death penalty is to murder people you did not make and do not own.

Syntosi · Answer

I think the idea that this is about "moral equivalence" is perhaps the wrong way to phrase this. What Pope Leo is grasping at is not equivalence but your own morality and positions.

For example, if you are saying that you are anti-abortion then you generally say that you are "pro-life". Now that sounds like a policy position but its more of a moral position on the value that you put on human life. If this is your true moral position, as you claim when you support anti-abortion, then you must be consistent in your moral position on other policies such as the death penalty.

If you can't value human life in the context of the death penalty then your argument that you are against abortion based on your value of human life is a hollow statement. It exposes a contradiction and makes you a hypocrite.

This does not mean its impossible to hold these two views independently of each other but you need a different argument. Saying its based on valuing human life is contradictory and is as such not a valid argument.

Ariesman81 · Answer

The statement itself just illustrates the Pope's own struggle with murder.

At face value, murder of an innocent child takes away the innocent's ability to sin. While the killing of a murderer takes away the sinner's ability to repent.

While both sin and repentance are part of life, and being saved, the Pope isn't necessarily incorrect. Though, would suggest that he takes issue with condemning sinners to hell.

Anonymous · Answer

You're either believe in the sanctity of life or you don't. You're either pro-life and against the death penalty or you really don't believe in the sanctity of life.

Now, having said this this is why I think the Vatican should agree to take every criminal condemned to death and the Vatican should work on rehabilitating them.

Anonymous · Answer

For me it's simple, abortion is the murder of an innocent life, never having had a chance for potential. The death penalty is the murder of someone who has taken a life or multiple life's, who squandered their potential and is utterly useless to society.

To me one is justified, one is not.. The one that is, is the criminal murderer. I also support expanding the death penalty to child molesters and rapists.

Chazmatazz269 · Answer

No. Most people are dumb though. So they fabricate false equivalencies in order to bolster their ignorant arguments.

DonaldDarko · Answer

You can't kill someone who never lived. This guy is a communist anyway not an actual Pope.

loveslongnails · Answer

I think this tends to lead to pretzel logic, whatever you choose to believe. It's all based on "belief".

Anonymous · Answer

maybe the Pope needs to tell us what his actual stances are instead of his hypothetical what ifs

Anonymous · Answer

he's not wrong.

beefcakebradybatson · Answer

RIGHT ON, YOUR HOLINESS !!!

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