Do you agree that illegals should not be given free CDL or automobile driver's licenses?

[NoDecision]

WHAT? G@G put this under DATING? 🙄

[msc545]

No, I don't agree. If these people can drive safely. there is absolutely no reason to not give them driver's licenses. That is a lot better than wasting legal resources on prosecuting them for driving without a license, which is what happens now. There is this persistence myth that illegal aliens drive more poorly and everyone else and that is just ridiculous. They have the same interest in not getting hurt and not damaging property as do the rest of us.

[NoDecision]

Yet quite a few do not have auto insurance so yours will have to cover them if they get injured.

[msc545]

Yes, that is true but that is also not my problem. It's a problem for the insurance companies and their business models account for those sort of costs. I believe. Again, I don't care about this because it's not my problem financially.

[NoDecision]

It will be when your insurance rates go up after an accident with an uninsured driver, even if it wasn't your fault. How many illegals have auto insurance?

[ohsheeT]

have you noticed when your question gets moved to some place.. it's because of your question. When they know, it's a good question but they know it could bring drama they try to hide the question and put it where it might not be seen.

[emeraldsaphire]

I'd like to see some statistics that undocumented drivers are more likely to get into crashes then citizen or green card holders.

I'm also not a fan of the two-tiered legal system, but I've never seen one that way so meh

[msc545]

Those statistics do not exist or if they do, they are carefully hidden because they contradict the prevailing right-wing model. That illegal aliens do everything worse than legal ones. Somehow the act of filling out some forms and being approved by some government. Functionary renders legal aliens much safer and law abiding than illegal ones. I don't think I have to comment too much about the absurdity of this. It should be self-evident.

[docster]

I agree that they should NOT get them free. They should not get them at all. When I got mine, I had to prove citizenship. When I got a job, I had to prove citizenship.

[DryGermanGuy]

No, from a law enforcement perspective you want people to have as much legal documentation as possible. They are going to drive anyway, so better to have them on record.

[emeraldsaphire]

Why is it good that everyone have documentation? Plus these IDs don't even have names on them. Like what's the point?

[DryGermanGuy]

I'm quoting law enforcement. They rather have a traffic accident situation (etc.) where they are handed official documents, instead of only hearing "no habla". And the definition of today's IDs is the combination of a picture with a name, otherwise they can't identify anybody.

[Chazmatazz269]

They shouldn’t be given anything, at all, ever. This country became a world power because people came here to contribute and mutually benefit. Takers have no place in a civilized society.

[msc545]

Yes of course. I suppose that means that the original colonists were takers to and they should never have been given anything like food or land or consideration from the native inhabitants. There may be something to this, given that in return for kindness, they proceeded to slaughter the native inhabitants over a fairly long period of time and continue to abuse them even now in many ways.

[msc545]

Are you now worried that the illegal aliens are going to somehow come after you and take your land and your women and slaughter you? Seriously?

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re not wrong. Why is it you can see the wrong in it historically, but now you insist that the only right thing to do is invite them in and give them everything without expecting that they enter through proper channels and contribute?
You are way deranged, fella. Seek professional help.

[msc545]

You think that "proper channels" somehow protect you? You think that when somebody fills out a form, that guarantees they're not going to do anything to you? Do you really believe this crap? Calling me deranged suggests to me that you truly are deranged if you believe the kind of garbage you're peddling here.

[DonaldDarko]

The shouldn't be here at all. The only car they should even be riding it is one driven by ICE.

[Jersey2]

No the shouldn’t have Commercial Drivers Licenses (CDLs) for big trucks or licenses for cars. They have killed a lot of people. Anyone caught helping them should be prosecuted.

[exitseven]

They should not be getting free anything except a ticket back to where they came from.

[Surely]

They should first become legal. Then go through everything that I had to go through. License, insurance and lastly. Speak English!

[Wiredone]

Yes I totally agree. I also think they shouldn't get free health care, schooling, food, room and board, and everything else.

[Pterodon]

No they shouldn’t get shit. It is a CRIME to cross illegally. They’re all criminals first. Get them out

[msc545]

It's very interesting to me that all the right-wing people on here continue to talk about illegal aliens with considerable venom and rage as if they were child molesters or the equivalent. These are simply people that didn't fill out forms and didn't do the things that were necessary to get the forms to begin with. I would remind you that entering the US illegally is actually not a federal crime, but instead an infraction very similar to a traffic ticket. This is why the federal government does not throw these people in prison, but simply deports them instead. Your overreaction to illegal entry is laughable and completely disproportionate to the effects of the offense. Who do they hurt by doing this?

[Pterodon]

They hurt taxpayers

[msc545]

In what way do they hurt taxpayers?

[msc545]

Actually in a very specific way they help you. They work cheaply at many jobs that Americans do not want to do, such as picking crops here where I live in California and because of this, the owners of those crops sell them to stores and distributors for a lot less than they otherwise would that they had to pay legal wages. In turn, the market where you buy your produce charge us less for the produce than in it. Otherwise would if the grower had to pay legal wages. As a result of all this, you get your vegetables and fruits for a lot less money than you otherwise would if the grower had to pay legal wages which he doesn't because it is possible to pay illegal aliens a lot less than anyone else for the same work. This saves you money and I know how important that is these days. It's also true for many other goods, particular clothing, and other things that were made by hand. You may not like illegal aliens being here but the financial effect of them being here has a very substantial benefit for many people. Probably including you if you buy vegetables or clothes or any other goods that are mainly made by illegal aliens.

[msc545]

Also, please contemplate the fact that your aliens statistically commit far fewer crimes than US citizens. Do. You keep complaining about criminal behavior on the part of illegal aliens, but I never hear you complaining about it on the part of American citizens who do a lot more of it. Maybe you should take a look at these statistics if you can tolerate it since they contradict your beliefs at this point.

[Pterodon]

Look your Biden enabled them to commit the crime. If they crossed on my land idve shot them and left them for the scavengers

[msc545]

This is not really the sort of question where your macho posturing is welcome. If you ever had the guts to shoot someone, you would quickly find out that illegal system doesn't tolerate murder very well. Be glad you've had at least the modicum of good judgment to not do something like this. Bragging about it instead is not attractive.

[msc545]

Also, I forgot that I asked you a question. You said that illegal aliens hurt taxpayers and I asked you how they did that. It was a genuine question on my part. Can you please answer?

[Pterodon]

It isn’t murder when they trespass and it’s posted. They’re all criminals. You love criminals and want to coddle them. Tell them it’s not their fault. I hate criminals

[msc545]

You cannot legally murder people for trespassing. If you do this you are going to be prosecuted for it and probably go to prison. Is it worth it to you?

[msc545]

Also, I'm going to ask my question again since you seem to be avoiding it. In what way do illegal aliens hurt taxpayers? You previously said this and I asked you twice now in what way they heard taxpayers and you've avoided answering it. I would really appreciate your answer. Thanks!

[Pterodon]

They hurt taxpayers by letting them have benefits at taxpayer expense such as medical in ER’s, housing in hotels, etc. Yes I would shoot and not report it and yes I’d let the bodies pile up. I’d take my chances in court

[msc545]

You keep treating this as a zero-sum game and it isn't. It's not like there is a palpable finite amount of medical resources and if we use too many of them we will run out or a palpable amount of hotel rooms and if we use them we will run out. There is a surplus of hotel rooms for sure right now and I can tell you from personal and professional experience we can expand medical Care almost infinitely. I say this to you as a medical provider. There is indeed some shortage of medical providers and certain specialties but in general medicine that is not true. Not at this point. The impact of illegal aliens on medical care is negligible. I personally care for them all the time and they don't impact the number of patients that I can see since there aren't that many of them really. And there won't be. And if there are they will receive care anyway and you will too if you need it. This is what we do as medical providers. I want you to understand that very clearly.

[msc545]

In regard to your ideas of shooting and killing people, I would urge you not to do this. I don't really think you would, but if you are ever tempted to do it, try to remember that the weapon has two barrels. One of them is pointing at the person you are shooting at. The other invisible one is pointing at you and when you fire the gun you won't feel the impact right away. But soon after you will and it will stay with you for the rest of your life. It's not worth it. You will be badly injured by any acts of violence that you commit.

[msc545]

I have spent much of my career caring for the effects of violence that were suffered by combat veterans fighting in US wars. They all have post-traumatic stress disorder and they are all very ill in the illness is very resistant to a treatment. Don't wind up with this yourself.

[Pterodon]

If there’s so many resources for them then why do we have so many Americans homeless in California. Why are you screaming about healthcare and closing the government because of it. According to you we have so much resources we can afford millions of illegal aliens

[msc545]

I'm very familiar with homeless people because here in Los Angeles where I live, there are many of them that come through our medical systems. Most of them have intractable psychiatric illness that we try to treat them for, but frequently it just simply doesn't work. If you are familiar with the effects of psychiatric illness, you know that disorientation and lack of volition are common effects of it that generally keep people from working or doing anything very effective. This has a lot to do with people becoming homeless. Also, we have a lot of homeless people on our street because our climate is not as punishing as it is in other places in the US. It doesn't snow here. It doesn't rain frequently enough and it usually doesn't get cold enough to kill someone. That being said, we do have people who die on our streets from exposure to the cold in the middle of the winter. I've seen too much of this. To just dismiss it out of hand. Depriving people of food and healthcare is a sure death sentence and sentence for serious disease which can infect all of us. I don't want the government to be shut down because we rely heavily on government funds to provide health care for everyone.

[Pterodon]

It’s simple. You want more for Americans? Then shut off all funding and services to illegal aliens and you’ll have more. America and Americans first

[msc545]

Everyone that lives here is an American. We don't have to shut off any services to provide more for others. We have plenty of services available. It is the costs that are prohibitive sometimes, but those two can be worked with. What cannot be worked with is the hatred that you seem to support.

[Dargil]

Illegals should not get any licenses.