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He was ABSOLUTELY in the right!!!
Furthermore, he didn't fire the first shot until AFTER she hit him with her car!! So, how do we know he wasn't PLANNING to shoot but, BECAUSE she hit him, his finger clenched on the trigger causing her to die! Basically, a second-hand suicide!!
Who the fuck CARES if he called her a fucking bitch? I would've called her that, too, had she tried to run me over!! Or EVEN for MAKING ME shoot at her!! What the fuck are you SUPPOSED to say, "Spring is here!!"?
She WAS a fucking bitch for being there in the first place, for doing what she was doing, for trying to run him over AND for MAKING HIM SHOOT HER!!
She SHOULD'VE been HOME WITH HER KIDS!!!
Agreed 110%
Its the Law, if you use your vehicle as a weapon (a weapon to push him out of the way is still using a weapon) then its self defense and is perfectly legal.
Protest legally and you will be ok
If you decide that your going to participate in criminal activity and use your vehicle as a weapon to flee getting arrested then nothing good is going to happen to you.
What is it with the left that they hate following the law now and always side with the criminals?
*investigate.. stupid autocorrect
@goaded they gave her a legal command to get out of the vehicle thats called being detained and you have no legal right to leave at that point.
And no you can't shoot people who annoy you, but if they try and use their car as a weapon against you, then yes you can.
Bottom line here Goaded is you are on the side of the criminals. When your side is demanding you side with criminals then maybe its time for you to jump ship.. come to the middle, its great, you get to still point out the stupid stuff Trump does and will say and also call out the stupidity of the left for the things they do and say..
They also gave her the command to leave the area. Disobeying even a lawful order is not a reason to be killed.
Stepping in front of cars to justify shooting people has been a BP tactic since before 2014.
www.latimes.com/.../...illings-20140227-story.html
"Understanding Officer-Created Jeopardy
Officers can be criminally prosecuted for using force when their actions led to escalation during contact with subjects."
www.policemag.com/.../understanding-officer-created-jeopardy
Their actions did not lead to escalation. Hers did.
@goaded
Here are the facts
She was breaking federal law
She was given a lawful order to leave
She refused a lawful order to leave
She was given a lawful order to get out of the car (she is legally detained at that point)
She illegally tried to flee using her suv as a weapon to do so.
Thoes links do not change any of the facts here.
Telling someone to leave is a great example of an officers attempt to de-escalate. rather then accepting the offer of de-escalation she chose violence.
Again Goaded you are on the side of the criminals here.
No, see, this: "using her suv as a weapon" is a lie. BP agents stepping in front of cars to "justify" shooting is a known tactic, and has been for well over a decade. It's also deliberate escalation.
They knew her face, her car, her licence plate. They could have arrested her at home at any time without anyone getting killed. They'd have had all the same video evidence there is today, just without the body of a mother without a face.
If I'm on the side of criminals, you're on the side of murderers. Lethal force is for when someone is in imminent danger of death, not deliberately risking a slight bruise to their leg.
Oh, and here's a video of ICE agents dragging protesters on their vehicles. All they had to do once the detainee was in the car was sit still and wait. That would be deescalation.
According to your logic, it is attempted mass murder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LxNM4FCnQ
@goaded nope we have laws and you are ignoring them. Citizens do not have the legal right to stop traffic, Citizens do not have the legal right to interfere in officers duties.
The police and federal agents DO have the right to stop traffic, they also have the right to use deadly force against citizens.
You are on the side of the criminals, not a single point you have tried to make here is a legal point.. your wrong, spectacularly wrong.
Didn't you see all those cars driving past as she waited for a gap? "stop traffic" my arse.
Nobody has the right to use deadly force against someone who's not a imminent threat to life. Everyone knew she wasn't, otherwise other agents would have pulled their weapons and Ross wouldn't have put himself in front of the car.
Except it would take an investigation to determine whether she was using her car as a weapon, and they don't want an investigation because she wasn't. If it were above board there would be a proper joint investigation with state authorities and the FBI and they would determine the facts of the case.
Your problem is that everyone who isn't wearing MAGA blinkers can see the facts of the case, which include that a federal agent chose to shoot a woman three times in the face rather than take a step to his right.
"using her car to flee" yes, but "hitting the officer", literally not in any released video.
An investigation would include eyewitness accounts under oath by the bystanders and agents, a medical examination of the shooter, consideration of all the training he'd had and what the guidelines say:
Did he follow department policy? No. DHS policy is very clear.
Did he attempt to deescalate the situation? No. That's obvious.
Did he follow the law? No, he shot a woman to death unnecessarily because he didn't follow department policy or attempt to deescalate the situation.
@goaded she hit him so hard he had internal bleeding..
www.google.com/.../
Cars are deadly weapons, she used it and paid the price. The shooting was justified.
There is ALWAYS an investigation when there is an officer shooting.
@goaded the international bleeding is irrelevant to the law so there is no need to lie. Pretty much every police shooting a car attempting to run over police they also walk away and thoes are also completely justified. When your argument had devolved into "its all lies" when there is video evidence, your really should just give up on the debate.
If the supposed "internal bleeding" is irrelevant, why did you and they mention it? They are telling the lie that he was a victim, rather than the woman he chose to shoot instead of taking a pace to his right.
There is video evidence that she was "using her car to flee", but "hitting the officer", is literally not in any released video. The killer didn't even drop his phone and whatever contact there was with the car was apparently not enough to put off his aim. Then he shot her twice more, while out of danger, and they left her to die without any first aid.
I guess, strictly speaking, a bruise is "internal bleeding", so maybe they weren't entirely lying. Just being extremely misleading, just like you.
Did he follow department policy? No. DHS policy is very clear.
Did he attempt to deescalate the situation? No. That's obvious.
Did he follow the law? No, he shot a woman to death unnecessarily because he didn't follow department policy or attempt to deescalate the situation.
@goaded i mentioned the internal bleeding because you do not care or understand the law and you are basing your whole argument on feelings
Department policy is NOT a legal argument.
Yes he DID follow the law because the shooting was justified.
They attempted to deescalate by telling her to just leave. She didn't
Once the command to get out of the car was given its moved into arrest time, and de-escalation is officially off the table.
Im sorry you dont understand how the Law works in the US, but you have been completely wrong about everything here
Oh, I care about and understand the law, you're the one who says there shouldn't be an investigation and we should all ignore the woman being shot by an ICE agent ignoring the guidelines he's supposed to follow.
The shooting was not justified because he wasn't following department policy. Even you have admitted she was trying to leave. Nobody had to get hurt, let alone killed that day. She could have been quietly picked up at home at any time, they had her face on camera, her car number and her wife standing right there.
The shooting was a choice. It was a murder. If it wasn't, they'd be happy to hold a full investigation instead of trying to DARVO.
@goaded i never said there shouldn't be an investigation.
I said there already was an investigation.
Every single officer shooting automatically gets investigated, every one.
I have already explained that department policy is not LAW or a legal argument, why are you bringing this up again? Are you not reading my posts?
You continuing to provide irrelevant information that has already been corrected seems like a waite of both of our times dont you think?
I agree nobody had to get hurt, what she should of done is protest peacefully and she would be alive today.
Instead she decided to not do things legally and decided to go the criminal route and payed the ultimate price.
Taking two minutes to look at a video is not an investigation. There's a reason the FBI was going to have a joint investigation with state law enforcement, then backed off. It's because there's obviously evidence that shows he murdered her in cold blood.
Department policy is important because not following it removes your justification for the use of deadly force.
I am reading your posts, but they're generally a joke when it comes to the law; just look at you thinking a failed appeal from three years ago was still active, and linking me to the evidence!
@goaded if there is a video of me pulling out a gun and firing it at officers and they shoot me it would be a pretty quick investigation for it being justified dont you think?
The only time you can legally fight with the police is in court, its not complicated, her choice was to use her car.. you can't use a deadly weapon against any officer. Sorry if this hurts your plans but thats the Law
@goaded she was fleeing, and you can shoot a fleeing suspect if you have reasonable fear of death or bodily harm.
Sorry but if an officer fears he is about to be run over he has the legal right to use deadly force to stop it.
If he was standing behind the car and shot her then that would be murder, but unfortunately for her he was in front of it and he was justified
So have a proper investigation. You realise you used the word "reasonable", there, right?
Let's see if his right to shoot a suspect includes putting himself in harm's way to justify it. Or, for that matter shooting someone in a moving vehicle, which is directly prohibited by department policy on the grounds that it doesn't make anyone safer.
Not so much in harm's way that if or when he got hit the harm is more than a bruise (sorry, "internal bleeding"), though. That would be silly.
"Except in the limited circumstances described in Section V. B., “Exceptions,” DHS LEOs
are prohibited from discharging firearms solely:
1. As a warning or signal (“warning shots”) or
2. To disable moving vehicles, vessels, aircraft, or other conveyances (“disabling fire”)."
(The exceptions are not relevant here.)
www.dhs.gov/.../...-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf
Thanks for posting that he did not violate department policy. The clause for deadly force is as follows
A DHS LEO may use deadly force only when the LEO has a reasonable
belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious
bodily injury to the LEO or to another person
The threat of being run over by a suv qualifies as possible death or bodily injury.
Thanks for proving he followed the law.
@David318578 There's a video from the officer's POV that has this fantastic loving women who left a wife, a 3 month old in the car (yes she fucking did all this WITH the 3 month old and her wife in the car) that shows that she looks at the agent, then turns back, then looks at him again, only then to continue to drive irrespective of the fact that she KNEW the agent was in front of her car the entire time. SMH Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
*woman
Opinion
23Opinion
u I am sure that I do not have access to all of the evidence and I have no need to form an ill-founded opinion.
Thank you. Exactly what I have been trying to say
i said good thing only because I wopuld not want a person like you on a jury. They've competant people looing at the actual shooting to determine if the officer was justified to "discharge" his firearm. That is the key question. If he was justified in shootint the fact that she is dead is he did what he should have done. She's dead yes and his bullet killed her but he didn't know that. He was "shooring" at her.
Then you could easily say, why was she there? She was there harrassing fedeeral offficers. That's illeagal but no one in Minnesota is smart enogh to get it. You might not like IOCE now, why did tiy when Obama was in office. I've heard people say it's because ICE didn't act this way. Yes they did. They didn't have a bunch of people guilty
of obstruction.
I'm and independent, I only care that Democrats are not what they wweree 10 years ago nor are republicans.
It's bad because when you stick a small explosive into a container it gains more power.
It makes the next reaction, worse.
The social bomb gets bigger.
My advice is we get ride of ICE and replace it with drones that swarm on a person like a bunch of bees, shoots them up with drugs to make them happy and slow and then someone comes and takes them away to be processed.
Or maybe rather than arresting people we are "inviting them" to a dessert and coffee party and theya re the special guest? thats' better than being detained for deportation.
then process and deport.
or something like that.
It really sucks honestly... these people been here a long time, this is their life, noone here would want to go back to the mess they came from, if they can even go back. And as well, get apprehended by masked large people with guns in a surprise action. It's just bad.
Nobody's attacking police. Police (more accurately, Trump's brownshirts) are attacking people. They've shot them in the head, with lethal and "less lethal" weapons, they've used chemical irritants, and driven away with protesters literally (genuinely, unlike Ross) in front of their vehicles.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=M9LxNM4FCnQ
@goaded never been allowed to interfere with police like that, it's on the edge. one thing standing on a corner with a sign talking. other to do what they are doing.
Amplify the issue and it's goes bad more often, exactly what the left wants and the media wants... chaos. weve seen this script before.
In my area we had "peaceful" protestors that for the most part were and you haven't heard about it for one reason and one reason only... it was peaceful! The only small problem was a safety risk where they stood on the bridge.
This is largely a bunch of generated drama, promoted by the left and gets out of hand, by the left. the inverse of Jan 6. Most people are not involved.
Bring the orangizers forward whom are writing the emails, coordinating... review it all in front of congress.
That is different than accepting if they can wear masks or their methods. those are legit issues.
No, you've always run the considerable risk of being arrested. You've never run the risk of being shot three times in the head while clearly identified and trying to flee.
"That is different than accepting if they can wear masks or their methods. those are legit issues. " Who are you talking about here? The protesters or the federal agents who never take off their masks or identify themselves?
@goaded always been a risk of being shot trying to flee (Officer Kimberly Potter). my judgement is officer should not have fired, didn't have cause. That is possibly a shift in govt viewpoint, favoritism.
All I can say is, be very very careful around police always.
I also question if they had a right to try to unlock her door, but I haven't studied the prior footage of her and friends "jacking" with ICE.
Noone should be wearing masks, not officers/ICE, unless it's for warmth. There may be real threats though I've not considered that the govt has to deal with. I would not want masked people showing up at my door saying they are ICE/police nor at my car, I think that's wrong... from what I know.
That was to be expected. This could be another case like George Floyd’s though. They didn’t initially press charges on those cops either. They changed their mind after a great deal of public outrage. I fairly expect to see Minnesota push something. Any reasonable judge will slap it down though. The facts don’t support any of the lies and rhetoric that the mainstream news and lunatic lefties are spouting.
Now, a civil case might go somewhere. The burden of proof is lower. It’s all about feelings, maybes and probablies, and that’s where the overgrown children who call themselves democrats shine.
I don’t think it’s over and it’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
Not only are there not going to be any charges, there isn't even going to be an investigation (by the DoJ, at least). 10 federal prosecutors have resigned in protest because “Investigating officials to determine if they broke the law, defied policy, failed to deescalate, and resorted to deadly force without basis is one of the Civil Rights Division’s most solemn duties” - Kristen Clarke, who led the division in the Biden administration.
Instead, they're going after the victim's widow.
They resigned because they no it was murder
I'm going to be brutally honest here, I've seen the video footage with my own eyes, ICE agent Mr Johnathan Ross practically committed first-degree murder IMHO, he should face criminal charges for shooting and killing an innocent US citizen, I don't care what excuse he has, MAGA has, or Mr Trump and his corrupt lying criminal administration has for justifying what the ICE officer did, there's bodycam footage and video footage from other angles, no-way was he being threatened, no way was his own life under threat too, I have utter contempt, and absolutely no respect for Mr Trump and his whole administration of corrupt lying criminals, they have all failed as a US government, failed dismally, they all need to go ASAP, Trump included.
He did not break the law nor violate any procedures. Yes, its sad. Rebecca got her sister killed. They were both training others to obstruct justice Renee attempted to murder officer Ross.
Don't bother splattering.
good thing. He was stopping a threat. It is never a good thing when somebody loses their life but getting in the middle of a law enforcement operation is not a safe thing too do.
Yeah, if you don't learn your lesson from one killing, maybe seeing someone shot in the eye at point blank range with a "less lethal" weapon will.
Someone has. Someone else was shot to death. 40 people have died in ICE custody, not including the dying people they "released" as soon as they realised they were going to die.
None of this is "fun and games", this is a dictatorship in the making, and you're cheering it on.
"Fascism, the U. S. government document explained, “is government by the few and for the few. The objective is seizure and control of the economic, political, social, and cultural life of the state.” “The people run democratic governments, but fascist governments run the people.”"
Dude, even Rasmussen isn't saying that.
www.rasmussenreports.com/.../trump_approval_index_history_second_term
www.realclearpolling.com/.../approval-rating
"Just 38% of U. S. adults approve of how Trump is handling immigration, down from 49% in March. The poll was conducted Jan. 8-11, shortly after the death of Renee Good, who was shot and killed by a U. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer in Minneapolis."
www.fox4now.com/.../one-year-in-trumps-approval-rating-shows-little-movement-despite-major-events (Fox News, mark you!)
"About 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of how Trump is handling the issue of foreign policy, and most Americans, 56%, say Trump has “gone too far” in using the U. S. military to intervene in other countries."
it is a good thing. A woman for some reason who has children is blocking traffic all day long and getting involved with stopping ice from doing their job when they went over to her and told her to stop and to get out of the car, she chose to put her foot down on the gas and run over an ice agent, she went crashing into him. Luckily, he jumped to the side and the car hit him on the side and he did what he’s trying to do to shoot. If this woman wasn’t acting like a 14-year-old brainless child she would still be alive and her children would have a mother. Hopefully the father has more sense than the mother did
Ideally after all evidence is captured and reviewed an open inquest would be conducted so there is no appearance of bias if charges do or do not proceed.
In this case the first shot would seem justified but the second shot is more questionable.
It's exactly what I knew would happen and expected from this kakistocracy; a fucking disgrace. It's one of those things; he may never face justice in Trump's America, but the Universe knows what he did. I guarantee, he WILL pay, and karma will see to that. When it happens, he'll wish he'd paid by man's law alone.
You know nothing about the incident. Stop pretending like you do. Put politics aside for once in your life please
@Kingofkings1992 Politics? Nothing political about 2nd degree murder.
So, a great big warm " fuck you, as if you know something no one else can see?" The entire video sequence is available now, start to finish, from multiple angles. It's been digitized, analyzed by third parties, experts in their fields. There's one analysis about what's known as "the potato part" due to it's blurred quality, where the analyst shows that some footage being circulated is sped up and edited as well to give the impression he was hit. Look it up before you cry " it was liberal analysts, not unbiased ones".
I'm not going to waste my time pointing out what everyone in their right mind can see. Don't waste yours trying to tell me they were doing their JOB and she posed a threat. You appear to be suffering from a really bad case of needing to justify an untenable position. It's probably because you can not, or choose not, to assimilate an obvious truth due of your belief system, so you have to accommodate whatever you see and hear. Like or not, that's textbook cult behavior.
Save your energy on this one. Sin itself was never as guilty as this asshole.
Refer to my previous comment. You. Know. Nothing.
People were harassing him and then tried to run him over. Why should he face criminal charges?
The other one, the wife, she should face murder charges as she set the whole thing up.
It's a good thing although i think his actions might have been too excessive his life was in danger which can make you react unknowingly so i certainly hope he does not face any criminal charges.
Under the present regime no judge is going to give a verdict against Trump. Ross could have shot a baby in a pram and not face charges.
Drumpf has lost a bunch of cases in court. He will lose more. Your hyperbole is not helpful.
ICES Has gassed little babies already ,
Stay out of our business Brit
Since the investigation will most likley not be impartial and thorough there is very little chance of justice being done in this case.
Its always a good side when the rights of the innocent is protected.
I feel like there should at least be an investigation. That would normally be routine procedure. Does no investigation mean there's no defence? It certainly looks that way.
There is no Statue of Limitations on murder. They will get him. Demicrats in House will Help Minnesota every way they can. He will end up in prison one way or another. Murder or Manslaughter. I expect a Trial by June 2027 .
Republicans will go Ape when it happens , I guess they can just mow them all down with a Machine gun because protesters are so dangerous.
u It's a good thing.
Everyone has the right to self defence
He was acting in self defense. 100% good
Another day in America.
Justice is being served.
Ah yes, Fascism is great, eh, honkkkies?
Honkies? Good grief, you are an idiot. All of the people involved are white. What does race have anything to do with this?
@Kingofkings1992 Because, genius, authorities slaying unarmed protesters (regardless of race, though these ICE pigs would have indiscriminately fired on demonstrating POC) is one sign of Fascism. PLEASE stop blowing your Orange Messiah 24/7/365/366, boy-o!!!
Good! Give him the chair!
Why would he get the chair? He didn’t do anything wrong, hence there is no criminal charges
lol miss read. He murdered someone
Who did he murder?
She deserved it
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