Does birthright citizenship actually harm anyone, and if so, how?

[Anonymous]

I ask this question because while I know that birthright citizenship is offensive to racists who are worried that non-whites may gain citizenship, what I'd really like to know is how does it cause any harm?

[abc3643]

Well, it does incentivize "birth tourism" which is a real thing. That can be a problem.

I knew a young man of Mexican descent; his parents were illegal aliens.
However, he was born in Texas making him what we now say is an "anchor baby" and, per the 14th Amendment (and upheld last week by the US Supreme Court), a US citizen.
He was a fine kid, very smart and went to MIT, and we worked at an aerospace think tank in the summer of 1992 or 1993 while he was on break from school. Anchor baby or not, he was a fine young man and worthy citizen.

What birth tourism does is create another process to immigrate and live here. The normal, legal process involves vetting - evaluating the prospective immigrant - and then processing them so they can live as permanent residents and eventually citizens. (This is called the naturalization process.) But, with birth tourism, the child born to illegal immigrants is automatically a citizen. The parents thus stay even though they are unvetted and unprocessed. And, of course, since these parents were unvetted, a significant number of them may have been ineligible to immigrate to or even enter the US.

This is all unfair to those who are immigrants via normal immigration and naturalization process. And, equally bad, it affects planning and resource allocation and infrastructure usage although I don't think it's too bad other than what we are experiencing at border crossings where we have to secure and keep alive all the caught illegal immigrants in ersatz jails and that is a big, expensive logistics problem. This isn't a birthright citizenship issue, but birthright citizenship does incentivize more illegal immigration thus leading to these logistics problems.

[slatyb]

It doesn't, people only imagine that it does. The people afraid of immigration are the losers who are not doing well economically. Rather than figuring out how to improve their lot, they blame it on externalities, but on the wrong ones. The loss of manufacturing jobs is not caused by immigrants here, it's a result of automation and globalization (think shipping containers). Sadly neither Democrats nor Republicans did much to mitigate the impact on communities reliant on manufacturing jobs.

[exitseven]

@slatyb Years ago roofers used ot be able to make a decent wage, enough to buy a house and raise a family. Now all the roofing companies are hiring illegals and paying them cash. I had a new roof put on my house and only one guy in the crew could speak English

[slatyb]

@exitseven That's true. It's true for a lot of occupations. I grew up in a blue-collar town. Young men could graduate high school, get a union job in a local steel mill or foundry, buy a house and car, raise a family on a single income. They had health insurance and paid vacations. The houses were small, and they vacationed on the Jersey shore, but it was a generally stable life. Sadly those jobs are gone due to automation and globalization.

[exitseven]

Sending all those jobs overseas was a mistake. President Trump is bringing those jobs back to America.

[Asker]

@exitseven it's actually illegal to hire illegals or people without a work permit of some kind. So who's committing the crime here? The illegal immigrant who's just trying to feed himself and his family, or the business owner who is trying to reduce his costs so he can increase his own personal profits? Who should be arrested in this situation and why?

[slatyb]

@exitseven We didn't "send them", the manufacturing firms moved them and they aren't coming back. The world supply chain is too complex to just move the jobs back. American manufacturers had two choices -- produce crap for quick sale in stores like Walmart, or remain onshore producing high quality goods. American manufacturers mostly moved the work overseas and produced crap. The Europeans and Japanese raised their standards and produce premium products sold at premium prices. Smart American consumers buy the high quality products from Europe and Japan because they are a joy to use and they last. Have you used German plumbing fixtures? German or French kitchen appliances? There are a few great American brands. The classic Kitchen-Aid stand mixer has been the standard for decades. I have All-Clad cookware and it's world-class. It's expensive, like $150 for a skillet, but it will last a lifetime. You never see it at estate sales because the heirs take it home.

But the last time I was in Paris the apartment had a Miele cooktop and a Phillips oven and they were brilliant, easy to clean, easy to use, precise time and temperature. At home I have a Breville toaster oven (French) that we use multiple times a day and love it -- precise time and temperature, multiple functions, consistent results. I have a Japanese rice cooker and it's the same, perfect rice every time.

[Asker]

It's really the same thing with cars. Almost nobody buys an American car anymore, except for the guys who have to have those huge F150 trucks that fall apart in 50 or 100,000 miles.

[slatyb]

that's because the American car manufacturers were making shit and continued making shit after the Japanese started importing vastly superior cars. They lost two generations of car buyers.

[exitseven]

It creates a situation where there is a large segment of the population that is dependent on government handouts. Money that should be spent on our elderly citizens or veterans goes to feed, clothe and provide shelter for a group of freeloaders that contribute nothing to our society and in a lot of cases they create crime and chaos.
Illegal aliens can come to the United States and have a baby and suddenly they are allowed to stay here and collect welfare benefits forever. Eventually they bring their whole family here and they all become a burden for the people that have to go to work every dsy and pay taxes.

[Asker]

I see, so it's your contention that everybody who comes here is dependent on government handouts, correct?

[exitseven]

absolutely Where I live there are entire communities that are collecting some form of government assistance and do not work or pay taxes and refuse to learn English and the more kids they have , the more money they get.. Eventually it becomes a multi generational family lifestyle.

[Asker]

So what? Who is harmed by this?

[exitseven]

taxpayers and impoverished citizens. Illegal aliens are given benefits that citizens can only dream about.

[Asker]

No, illegal aliens are not given increased benefits. You exaggerate as usual and also lie as usual.

[exitseven]

They get more money for every baby they have.

[Asker]

If we were doing it your way, we'd grind the baby up for dog food.

[Asker]

We simply hate immigrants because many of them don't have white skin, and according to you, anybody who doesn't have white skin isn't worth anything.

[darkcloud1945]

It is not just a baby; it is an anchor baby, so it is the baby that the mother, father, brothers, sisters, aunts, and uncles are anchored to the baby to get access to this country. Your racist linking the baby to a color, the family child can be any color, but it happens that most of the birthright babies are, as you put it, non-white.

[Asker]

You are wrong.

A child’s U. S. citizenship does not automatically grant legal status or citizenship to their relatives.

Every individual’s immigration case is evaluated independently. For the parents, a U. S. citizen child cannot “sponsor” them for a green card or legal permanent residency until the child reaches the age of 21. For extended relatives (such as siblings, aunts, or uncles), the waiting periods to obtain legal status through a U. S. citizen family member are often decades long.

[darkcloud1945]

Never said it made them citizens, it just gives them access to this country.

[Asker]

It does not. Stop lying.

[Just_Ken]

Yes it harms citizens. For instance im living in America and we couldn't send our eldest to the local school because its so overcrowded with the children of ilegals, litteracy in the school is seriously low.

One anchor baby represents as many as 20 ilegals all of whom compete for jobs, lower wages, raise healthcare prices, raise house prices and rents, raise crime

[Asker]

Actually, it sounds like your children are not bright enough to compete. I'm sorry to hear that, but you know what? That's just the way it is.

[Just_Ken]

They are well schooled because they are now homeschooled rather than continue in those failing schools were the literacy and math rates are non existent due to all the dreamers. I mean 40-50 in a class with one teacher, ludicrous.
We recently put our eldest through the 11 plus, passed with an A. A real vindication because its not even an American test.

[Asker]

I hope your wife is a lot smarter than you are. Those kids deserve a decent education.

[Just_Ken]

@IamRight yet he's silent on south africa kicking immigrants out.

[Asker]

I live in the US not South Africa. What happens in South Africa is not my business and I don't care about it.

[Asker]

I told you before, in case you didn't bother reading it: I live in the United States. I don't give a fuck what happens in Africa.

[Just_Ken]

"I live in the United States. I don't give a fuck what happens in Africa."

You sound racist. Don't non-whites deserve you to give fuck?

[Asker]

Has nothing to do with the color of their skin, unlike you, who is actually a racist. There is so much going on in the US right now that is horrible that, to be honest, I don't really have the bandwidth to worry about what happens in other countries. If you aren't pleased by that, too fucking bad.

[Just_Ken]

Denial not just a river in Egypt but you wouldn't care because Egyptians are non white

[Asker]

Oh, I don't care because Egyptians are an Americans, asshole.

[Just_Ken]

Some Egyptians are you racist.

[IamRight]

Seems like my response went missing again due to asker thinking I’m a leftist like the racist European leaders who in askers opinion refuse to introduce birthright citizenship to their countries due to racism, unless he thinks we can exclude American Republicans from being labeled racist for learning that one thing from the European leftists.

[In_Trance]

The birth of a person in the eyes of the government is a commodity; an asset to the home country and a liability to the birthright.

[Asker]

In what way is it a liability?

[In_Trance]

Because in your home country you're paying taxes. In the Birth country you're relying on the system for survival

[Asker]

So what? Who's harmed by this?

[In_Trance]

The State

[Asker]

In what way?

[In_Trance]

Because in your home country you're paying taxes. In the Birth country you're relying on the system for survival... Did you miss this?