Islamic Jihad Versus Christian Crusades: There Is No Moral Comparison

[MementoMori_]

Let's cut right to the chase:

The purpose of Islamic Jihad was (and still is) to enslave people, the purpose of the Crusades was to free Christians from enslavement by Muslims. There is NO MORAL COMPARISON between the two.

You want history? I'll give you history.

Here is the history of the last 1,400 years illustrated on a dynamic battle map of both the imposition of Islamic Jihad during that period and the imposition of the Christian Crusades.

Keep in mind that Muslims had been brutally attacking Europe for 450 to 500 years before the Crusades even took place.

If you can see this history and still believe there is some kind of equivalence between these two movements, you are irredeemably brainwashed.

There is no moral equivalence. Islamic barbarianism stands alone as the most evil force known to mankind in the last 1,400 years at least and still is to this day. There is no religion more intolerant, more violent, more militaristic, more tyrannical, more evil or more dangerous on earth.

Watch and learn the truth.

[RainbowSmile]

The difference is the Bible never promoted or encouraged the crusades and anyone acting violent on behalf of Jesus or Christianity is going directly against its teachings and is actually violating the commandments. The Bible never taught its followers to go out and kill non believers but instead to turn the other cheek and to forgive and love thy enemy.

The Quran contains many versus that are a call to action to bring violence against non believers. Many versus teach aggressive non tolerance and even though there are other verses riddled throughout which also teach kindness and love, these violent versus are dangerous and can be taken literal by followers of this religion.

[MementoMori_]

Excellent point. I'll also add that the Bible forbids suicide whether by your own hand or the had of a Jihadist. To fail to DEFEND life is a sin.

[morrowlow]

the only problem with your comment is that it's wrong. Islam only allows Muslims to fight oppressors and those tyrants. Now if some so called Muslims don't have a clear definition for those terms< it doesn't prove anything wrong with Islam.

[MissPeach35]

Do you even know what Jihad means?
Jihad's original Islamic meaning: "The struggle to be a perfect Muslim."

Also, your source was just making statements not backing it up with any proof. To be honest it seemed really biased. He claims they're facts but where is his proof?

If it was true, then it wasn't right, and they should not have done what they did.

You seem so bothered about what has happened 14,000 years ago, yet what happened in Iraq 16 years ago, doesn't seem to bother you at all.

In my eyes, you are just as biased as your source.

[akihon]

But then aren't you ignoring groups like isis using the crusades as a rallying cry. So it's a bit of a fallacy to claim one person is doing that but ignore that an entire group is doing the same thing from a different point of attack. Either condemn all or nothing.

[MissPeach35]

1400 years ago**

Why would I condemn 2 billion people, for what a few thousand are doing? The few thousand wouldn't listen to the other billions of people, they believe the majority, who doesn't use crusades as a rallying cry as traitors.

[BellumEtPacem]

Thanks @MissPeach35

[MissPeach35]

@BellumEtPacem No problem :)

[akihon]

You've missed the point and your getting defensive I just point d out that one person us d the crusades and another group does to you argue against one but ignore the other. Why is that the case. Frankly I care neither for Christianity nor Islam if you ask me they're both from the same pot of brainwashing 101.

[MissPeach35]

@akihon I don't understand what it is you're trying to get at. Perhaps be a little clearer?
If you interpreted my reply to you as being defensive, then you interpreted it wrong. I was clearly stating my opinion on your bias. If you really are interested in religion, and it's history, I suggest you read multiple books on the subject from credible, unbiased historians. Not some random man on the internet who makes statements but has no kind of evidence to back it up.

[akihon]

And that's where you're wrongly attempting to nullify the acts of followers of Islam against Christianity frankly you're wrong the video which is correct and accurate if you know any actual history will back up what you know. You're argument is coming from an emotional standpoint mine isn't. The ottoman Turks were following Islam and decimated the Balkans with their push to spread Islam killing far more than the crusades. But are you going to ignore that fact

[MissPeach35]

@akihon If it was true, then why isn't the man in the video referring to credible sources, to back himself up? He's blatantly making statements without using unbiased reliable sources to back himself up, and yet he's calling his statements facts. Until he uses a source, which is reliable and unbiased he cannot call his statements facts, they are just statements.

That's one of the first things history class teaches you.

I do not know whether this is or isn't true, I will have to look into it myself, but if it was true then that is not right, but you cannot blame Islam for it.

Tony Blair allegedly claimed, it was his Christian faith which influenced his Iraq war decision. Do you blame Christianity for the massacre of those people in Iraq? Or do you blame Tony Blair?

I think any person knows the answer. Blame the person. Not the religion they follow.

[akihon]

I agree with you here I don't blame Islam but followers of Islam there is a distinct difference between the two that is also clear in the video. I've seen it many times so don't have to watch it again. What your argument seems to be based on is that these aren't facts but they are sorry but they are now as for any comments made on the video well I don't care about them.

[MementoMori_]

"... I don't blame Islam but followers of Islam there is a distinct difference between the two..."

Not sure what that difference would be. The Koran is the playbook for Islam. It explicitly instructs its followers to kill those who will not convert to Islam. So how can you separate those who commit the genocide from the religion that commands them to commit it?

[MissPeach35]

@MemetoMori_ you have to look at the context in what it tells Muslims to do. It does have violent verses, I'm not going to deny that but those verses are for when in war and only in war.

[Nadim171]

No it doesn't mean that. Jihad means fighting or batteling in Arabic. And it's always wrote "jihad in the sake of Allah" meaning fighting and conquering in the name of the Islamic God. Fighting non believers until they pay the jizya. But over my dead body. If muslims come to the west again we'd shoot them with bullets dipped in pig's blood

[MissPeach35]

@Nadim171 It can mean what you are saying to "fight, and battle, holy war." But what are those things?

"Fight, and battle" do not have to mean violence. If people said "fight racism" does it have to mean beat up every single racist person you see? No. It could mean educate racist people, that racism is wrong.
One definition of fight is: "struggle to overcome, eliminate, or prevent."
When it is referring to fighting non-believers, it could mean, Muslims do not get tempted to do haraam things, which non-believers do (by haraam I mean acts which are forbidden for Muslims) that in itself can be a struggle, because when you tell people not to do something, it is incredibly tempting for them to do it anyway. That is human nature. Isn't that a struggle to be a perfect Muslim?

Holy war, means to defending Islam, and you can only defend something if it is under attack. So that meaning is only used when Islam is believed to be under attack. If Islam is not under attack then it means what I said previously.

[Nadim171]

What you're saying is right but in the case of Muhammed it literally meant fighting with swords and killing enemies.
And it doesn't mean to defend Islam but to spread Islam throug war. That's why Muhammed and the khaliphates conquered non Muslim cities to spread Islam in it such as Egypt

[MissPeach35]

@Nadim171 " What you're saying is right but in the case of Muhammed it literally meant fighting with swords and killing enemies. "

Which sources do you have to back that up? And not a biased one, which just aligns the quotes which look bad at face value. Actual authentic sources.

"And it doesn't mean to defend Islam but to spread Islam throug war. That's why Muhammed and the khaliphates conquered non Muslim cities to spread Islam in it such as Egypt "

I am a Muslims and that is not what it means to me, let it mean to you what it will interpret it how you wish, interpretations can say a lot about a person. Thank you for this discussion.

[Nadim171]

Again my sources are the Quran, the hadith and history of Islam. Why did muslims conquer non Muslim places if that's true? Why did Muhammed kill non believers if that's true, why do ISIS claim to follow Islam and has many followers if that's true?
Islam = khaliphate's army = ISIS = satan

[MissPeach35]

@Nadim171 "Why did muslims conquer non Muslim places if that's true? Why did Muhammed kill non believers if that's true"
This happened but the prophet soon realised he made a colossal mistake and force was not the best way to spread religion, and he changed.

"why do ISIS claim to follow Islam and has many followers if that's true? " I can claim to be a cat. Does that make me a cat? I cannot speak for ISIS because I am not ISIS and I do not agree with what they are doing. All I can do is condemn their actions and hope they learn that what they have done is immensely wrong.

[Nadim171]

But they did the same things as the khaliphates, does this mean you also hate the khaliphates?

ISIS:"force non muslims to pay jizia;have sex slaves;thought women should Veil their face;Christians and Jews are 2nd class citizens

Khaliphates:force non muslims to pay jizia;have sex slaves;thought women should veil their face;Christians and Jews are second class citizens

[MissPeach35]

@Nadim171 I will look into Caliphates myself, I do not trust what you tell me, because you seem incredibly biased and display your views through hatred.

I'll get back to you when I have done so.

[Nadim171]

I have no reason to lie, the things I tell you are from history books written by muslims. Yes but please get back when you do so. And I'm talking about the first 4 holy khaliphates

[InTimoreDei]

@MissPeach35

Shi'a Muslim here.

Jihad doesn't just mean "internal struggle" like what many Muslims love to tell non-Muslims. It also was used as an excuse to capture Jerusalem and the Ottoman Empire when they invaded non-Muslim lands.

[MissPeach35]

@InTimoreDei The LITERAL meaning of jihad is struggle, or effort.

It can mean holy war- and violence should only be used as a last resort.

[MementoMori_]

Yes, I know what Jihad means. I learned the meaning from religion of peace organizations such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and about 200 others on the the international list of designated Islamic terrorist organizations that are destroying the planet around the world. Frankly I couldn't give a shit what the word means, I am not interested in learning anything about a religion whose central theme is to destroy civilization.

[MementoMori_]

No offense intended. ;-)

[Nadim171]

That's not literal meaning. Literal meaning is batteling.
And in Islam when Muhammed weighed jihad it was phisical fighting

[MissPeach35]

@MemeToMori_ You didn't offend me. Your misunderstanding just makes me pity you. If you think the religion central theme is to destroy civilisation- then I pity you. And see you pointed out your own problem right there, right then. You're not willing to learn. How can you know the religion's central theme is to destroy civilisation when you aren't even willing to learn about it? How do you know your interpretation of that religion is true if you're not willing to learn about it? Your ignorance is at the stem of your problematic views.

[MissPeach35]

@Nadim171 In some instances the literal meaning can be inferred as struggle.

[Nadim171]

"I have been made victorious with terror"(bukhari 52:220)
Sharia law says:
•stone adulterers
•non believers, Christians and Jews are 2nd class citizens.
•apostates must be killed
•women need a guardian to travel or drive
•women need to veil their face or hair.

[MementoMori_]

Two of my friends lost parents to animals masquerading as human beings on 9/11/2001 who performed their barbaric acts in the name of Islam. That's all I need to know about it.

[Nadim171]

@MementoMori_ Christians did bad things too like the KKK.
But what's the difference? The Quran justifies 9/11 but the bible doesn't justify the KKK.

[MementoMori_]

I agree and I love that point. It is exactly right.

[MementoMori_]

Islam is the only significant religion I know of whose founding document commands them to murder innocent people who refuse to bow down to their god. That is the essence of Islam. There is no escaping it and no justifying it. I have no respect for anyone who would belong to a religion that has that in it's holy documents. So they say, yeah, but "We don't believe in that. That's not Islam." That's like saying you are a Christian but you don't believe in Christ. I have no respect for anyone who would belong to such a barbaric, evil cult.

[Nadim171]

@MementoMori_ however I disagree with that, many people including people I know are muslims but don't know anything about they're religion. Some of these people are the victims of brainwashing of their parents. One of my relatives wife was an ex Muslim, I know lot of ex muslims and they really brainwash them since they are kids.

[tearout]

GOD is above the dome Jesus Christ
so yeah this fight will go on till the end bro

and GOD will deal with them
what I wonder and hope is there are good muslims who do not want to kill or force

I just hope they make it to heaven
but it's only hope

[MementoMori_]

I wonder how there can be such a thing as a "good" Muslim if they associate themselves with a "religion" whose founding document commands them to murder anyone who doesn't believe the way they do, whose fellow members of the "religion" are committing daily atrocities in virtually every country all over the world and whose "religion" has a 1,400 year history of the most barbaric, warlike behavior known to man. Can anyone who chooses to call themselves a member of this subhuman club really be a "good" person? I would immediately renounce my religion if it was like that. If I didn't, how could I consider myself a "good" anything?

[tearout]

so if a child who is 5 years old is raised muslim
that 5 year old child now should be murdered
cause it's his fault

remember they are raised into a lie
they don't know any better
once they become adults

NOW THEY HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE

[MementoMori_]

"so if a child who is 5 years old is raised muslim
that 5 year old child now should be murdered
cause it's his fault "

I don't see where anyone who commented here called for murdering Muslim children. Can you provide the quote that called for that?

[tearout]

what other option is there?
cause trust me there are many Muslims I would kill

and guess what when GOD comes down from the dome
what do you think he will do with them?
most of them are killers and brained washed very few Muslims are not
I live in an area full of Muslims they are nice

BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST LOL
that's a different story

[MementoMori_]

I don't support killing Muslim children. What I do support is policies to force Muslim countries to stop teaching their children to kill non-Muslims in their schools. This is where terrorism is taught to go from one generation to the next.

[tearout]

the only way to do that is to KILL lol
and take over
if you wanna leave the kids alive
sure but the adults and grown teenagers JUST KILL

[BeHappy1985]

If you look at the numbers this video and your post are a load of bs en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

[MementoMori_]

Have no idea how anything at the link you posted supports your conclusion but here is a documented list of battles of the Muslim invasion just of the Iberian Peninsula (doesn't include the Middle East or Africa, other parts of Western Europe or Eastern Europe). It's a list of the battles in which Muslims invaded the Christian lands in the Iberian Peninsula and the battles where Christians in that area finally pushed them back hundreds of years later. As show in the video there were hundreds of Islamic assaults on the Christians during that period.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Timeline_of_the_Muslim_presence_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula

[BeHappy1985]

Do the death count, how many people got killed by muslims and how many by christians. Crusades alone took 1,000,000–3,000,000 lives. No one beats the christians when it comes to killing people, well maybe Genghis Khan, but look at how many native americans are left, Islam still has a few milion to go before they catch up.

[BeHappy1985]

Also Islam is 570 years younger than Christianity, that's a lot of time when it comes to taking lives.

[BeHappy1985]

the purpose of the crusades wasn't to "free the christians" it was to kill everyone who was agains christianity, and this went on all across Europe not just in the middle east.. you got fake news here nothing more..

[BeHappy1985]

Everyone who is white and in Europe had two choices, join the church or die.. to which I say fuck off mate with your propaganda.. Fuck you and fuck all religions..

[Jager66]

Acrtually.. Muslims are reponsible for more murder than ww1, ww2, American Civil war, Communist Russian, Communist China, The Inquisition, The witch Trials and the crusades combined. It's estimated that the Muslims murder count is between 670 million conservatively and 890 million on the high end.

Islam is also responsible for the 2 largest slave trades in world history, The Slavic slave trade and the North African slave trade, even today they still practice open slavery.

Islam is also responsible for by far the largest genocide ever committed in human history.

[MementoMori_]

If it's considered immoral to exclude Muslims from living in your country, how can the spread of Islamic terrorism be prevented?

Let's assume that most Muslims are not violent and also assume that when you let in non violent Muslims you are also letting in violent Muslims who will murder innocent people.

Is it more moral to allow all of them in and let innocent people die, or to exclude all of them to prevent it?

[Jager66]

It's not an issue of morality, so lets not make this a false dichotomy.

It's an issue of weather or not the imported culture is compatible with the home countries culture, and weather or not the people being brought in are needed in the destination country and if those people are capable of fitting in to the new home country.

[thatguyfromtoronto]

You are by far the dumbest idiot with your question. Because of your stupidity, I will send a lengthy response and then block and mute this conversation so that neither you nor any noob on GAG can reply with racist rhetoric. I am a Muslim, and to paraphrase when Islam says stand up and kill it means when needed, Islam and the Quran also teaches that "love thy neighbor" regardless of what religion you are and help people the Quran SAYS THIS so how come none of y'all say that? It's like watching a movie half way and then you have a pre-conceived notion that this is how the movie will end so you walk out without knowing, that's the ignorance of how people view Islam. If you don't know if you don't talk to other Muslims then keep your mouth shut.

When I go to the mosque there is no mention of hurting Christians or Jews so I don't know where you or others commenting get your weird sick, twisted thinking then go check yourself and check your facts. I am no one special, yet I will be willing to help and donate to Christians or Jews or whomever. Common arguments about Muslims is that Prophet Muhammad had sex with a 6-year-old girl he's a pedophile - WRONG! Aisha was actually 17, 18 or 19 years of age, Aisha's eldest sister passed away who was 10 years older than Aisha when she was with the prophet.

Why does the prophet (God's messenger) get demonized when the fact is, rich white kings who were old as fuck would marry young girls as young as 11 or 10, yet that shit doesn't get talked about. Let's move to Sharia law, Sharia law is associated with Islamic principles/values, throughout time after Prophet Muhammad had passed men along the way have changed Islamic principles that went away from God. Islam never says, beat your wife, oppress your wife, I mean women are still oppressed around the world today. Islam has an entire chapter dedicated to Mary (Jesus' mother). During the time of Prophet Muhammad, women played a role in Islam as being hard-working, Prophet Muhammad first wife Khadija was a businesswoman who had more money than the prophet and she accepted him and loved him and he loved her and allowed her to do her thing as well, these are facts. Are people that stupid that after the prophet dies and regular men who pretend to be "Islamic" don't share the same values as he does which is honesty, courage, nobleness, prayed, fasted, didn't commit any sins. Let me repeat this again, God appointed and chose Prophet Muhammad as his only messenger.

Getting back to women and Islam, I am a Muslim guy, I am not going to force my wife to wear a hijab that is her choice, that is the choice of any woman, just like a nun wearing something that covers her up. Y'all talk about how Islam oppresses women and what example is that? Saudi Arabia? The same Saudi Arabia the United States continues to do business with for oil and money purposes? Saudi Arabia is NOT an Islamic country if Saudi Arabia is the definition of what an Islamic country is why would the royal family and government use Hajj money from millions of visitors doing the Hajj pilgrimage for the government and royal family's greed? Saudi Arabia jails and kills Muslims whether male or female, Shia or Sunni for speaking up against there oppression. Don't believe me have the balls and book a flight and go there then to see for yourself. If Saudi Arabia is such an Islamic country why would their government and royal family order to destroy Islamic history and Islamic gravesites from Prophet Muhammad's family? I mean in the U. S people who are Christian are good people but doesn't mean America in general is all filled with good because the US government is corrupt.

Which leads to my next point, the United States government created/funds for terrorist groups like ISIS, this is a fact. After 9/11 US invaded Iraq/Afghanistan costing the US $2.4 trillion on a war for what? Steal their oil? Kill innocent civilians? That war led fucked the US because it led to the 2007 recession how'd that go?

[thatguyfromtoronto]

Stop calling it Islamic Jihad, you don't even know what Jihad is. Vladimir Putin even said that the US created and help pay these actors so of course, these thugs/gang members will choose the most corrupt side like what the US pays them to do these evil things. Putin isn't Muslim, he follows God is own way but yet, Putin has close ties to Iran 'The Islamic Republic'. Yeah the United States funds and created terrorist organizations, US gives billions of dollars to Zionist Israel and lets its people suffer from obesity, high education debt, immoral laws (ie: fining someone $1 million, sent to prison for being pro-BDS), how the oppression Black people face and etc. That's a democracy? That's not a democracy.

[thatguyfromtoronto]

The time we are in now was predicted by Prophet Muhammad over 1400 years ago, and yes all the events that have happened since then have come true and the major signs are already in the process (ie: Netanyahu and his Zionist regime proclaiming Jeruselum belongs to Israel) mind you it is not anti-semitic saying this on my end because Jews who follow Judaism despise Netanyahu's Zionist dictatorship of government vs religion. I showed solidarity with the Jewish community after the Pittsburgh attacks, Muslims have helped the Jews especially for centuires and into today. When White extremists destroyed grave sites in a Jewish graveyard, the Muslim community raised thousands and thousands of dollars to help the Jewish community fix them. Yet you don't talk about that right? The end times are approaching, and yes the Muslims and Christians will fight, unfortunately, but the 12th imam and Jesus will come back to spread peace, unity and that oppression is expelled and that no person in poor. Jesus will proclaim I was never crucified, God lifted him to heaven and this will shock the Christians and non-believers, Islam and the Quran STATE the coming of the 12th imam and Jesus.

[thatguyfromtoronto]

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=ohrkhZnG4Ww&list=LL7hvI8_CrDgtWNfW5bZSz5w&index=33

www.youtube.com/watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTzmtzCKTNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wOG7o5OnKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Pk0ljmR04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjqqWxWpfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXCBUoIudc

[thatguyfromtoronto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Pk0ljmR04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjqqWxWpfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXCBUoIudc

[thatguyfromtoronto]

And to Christians out there understand Jesus was a prophet, he was not the son of God, why would Jesus be the son of God when Adam was the first man ever created and sculpted out of God's beautiful hands himself and blew a soul into Adam. And again as a Muslim, I agree that even with the LGBTQ community they should not be harmed or killed, however, there's a reason why God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and John. We as a world, as a society have forgotten God to simply act like ignorant, superficial, animals and the time will come until the 12th imam and Jesus come back to set this world straight, we have fallen astray this world is bullshit, this system is bullshit, why the fuck should my hard work or someone else hard work allow the rich not to be taxed. May God (Allah) hasten the return of the 12th imam and Jesus, they will return, I promise everyone that, I promise my life that they will return one day.

[thatguyfromtoronto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0zMifYVcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXCBUoIudc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjqqWxWpfo&t=20s

[thatguyfromtoronto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTzmtzCKTNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wOG7o5OnKg&t=81s

[thatguyfromtoronto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU6RG6Dk890&t=43s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVwuLDYONDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7BMk4AUls

[RainbowSmile]

I respect you and I know you and many other followers of Islam have good intentions are are kind and loving people. The overwhelmingly vast majority of devout Muslims are very peaceful non violent people HOWEVER the problem arises when versus such as the following can be interpreted as a call to violence. This verse is not merely a story in the Quran describing past events but can be construed as instructions and since the concept of “repressing faith” is vague, we have seen followers act on this.

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

Furthermore here Allah puts limits on peace and seemingly approves of hostility under vague circumstances “let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression”

Like I said previously very few people use these verses to conduct violence but you have to admit that even these small suggestive passages can have a big impact and innocent people have fallen victim to their interpretations

[ENTP_EMO]

""On Balian's orders the Crusaders surrendered the city to Saladin's army on October 2 1187. The take-over of the city was relatively peaceful especially in contrast to the Crusader siege of the city in 1099.

Balian paid 30,000 dinars for freeing 7,000 of those unable to pay from the treasury of the city. The large golden Christian cross that had been placed over the Dome of the Rock by the Crusaders was pulled down and all Muslim prisoners of war taken by the Crusaders were released by Saladin who according to the Kurdish scholar and historian Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad, numbered close to 3,000

Saladin allowed many of the noble women of the city to leave without paying any ransom. For example, a Byzantine queen living a monastic life in the city was allowed to leave the city with her retinue and associates as also Sibylla, the queen of Jerusalem and wife of the captured King Guy. Saladin also granted her safe passage to visit her captive husband in Nablus. The Native Christians were allowed to remain in the city while those of Crusader origin were allowed to leave Jerusalem for other lands along with their goods through a safe passage via Akko by paying a ransom of 10 dinars. Saladin's brother, Al-Adil was moved by the sight and asked Saladin for 1,000 of them as reward of his services. Saladin granted his wish and Al-Adil immediately released them all.

Heraclius upon seeing this asked Saladin for some slaves to liberate. He was granted 700 while Balian was granted 500 and all of them were freed by them. All the aged people who could not pay the ransom were freed by orders of Saladin and allowed to leave the city. He then proceeded to free 1,000 more captives upon request of Muzaffar al-Din Ibn Ali Kuchuk who claimed they were from his hometown of Urfa. In order to control the departing population he ordered the gates of the city to be closed.

At each gate of the city a commander was placed who checked the movement of the Crusaders and made sure only those who paid the ransom left the city. Saladin then assigned some of his officers the job of ensuring the safe arrival of the Crusaders in Christian lands."

[HomoFuge]

You should read books written by credible historians rather than shit made up by ignorant people on the internet. I recommend reading books written by Thomas Asbridge, who is a credible historian in Medieval history.

I'll give you a piece of history. When the First Crusades retook Jerusalem, they killed, raped and pillaged all the Muslims living there. They also massacred Jews on their way to Jerusalem. Women and children were not spared. When Saladin re-took Jerusalem, he told his followers to spare the women and children, giving the Christians living in the city time to leave. He also forbade his followers from destroying and pillaging the churches in Jerusalem.

Also, Pope Urban did not call the First Crusades because of Christians being persecuted by Muslims in Jerusalem (a lot of historians state that Alexius may have exaggerated this to convince Urban to help him). He called it because he wanted to heal the Great Schism of 1054 and believed a crusade could help achieve this.

[BellumEtPacem]

Thank you

[MementoMori_]

Nice try but the video was made by Dr. Bill Warner who holds a PhD and is a college professor.

[MementoMori_]

"You should read books written by credible historians rather than shit made up by ignorant people on the internet. "

Who you going to believe? A highly respected author and college professor or some anonymous 21 year old on the Internet?

[HomoFuge]

Nice try but Dr Bill Warner holds PhD in physics and is not a qualified historian.

[HomoFuge]

A PhD in physics is not the same as holding a PhD that specialises in Medieval history. This guy holds as much historical credibility as holocaust deniers.

[MementoMori_]

Credentials don't change facts. Muslims invaded Christian held lands and attacked and brutalized Christians in the Middle East and Europe for about 450 years before the Crusades even took place. That is a fact.

What is also fact is the battles that took place and the timeline that they took place in on the dynamic battle map posted.

Doesn't matter what a person's credentials are, it does not change any of those facts.

Which of these facts do you dispute?

[RainbowSmile]

Again these are acts committed by bad people and have nothing to do with Christianity. Anyone committing these acts are clearly in conflict with the direct teachings of the Bible. The Bible leaves no room
For misinterpretation about the subject of treating your neighbors and enemies with love and one of the commandments is not to kill so anyone who murders can claim to murder in the name of the Bible but are false members of the true church.

[MementoMori_]

Sadly that is an argument that falls on deaf ears. Muslims use the same argument about Islam, i. e. the terrorists are not real Muslims. Of course the Koran tells them to slaughter non-believers and the Christian Bible tells Christians to turn the other cheek. But never mind the facts, facts never count when you are on the wrong side of the truth. The bottom line is I will leave the academic debate about what the real Islam is to Muslims. Who cares. All I care about is killing the Muslim terrorists before they kill me.

[Electric_Dreams]

Beautiful take.. sadly.. wish something like this didn't have to be beautiful. Hard-hitting truth in the face of oppression of freedom to express opinions, freedom to breathe and freedom to live is beautiful to me though.

You are right. Many people, many extreme liberals, will not accept it for whatever reason. Often I find because they are devastatingly out of touch with the inherent savagery and brutality of the world, out of touch with reality, living lives that are too safe and privileged. However, myself and many others who live quite safe, privileged lives are not in denial of this obvious truth, so that's not all it is. It is also.. and this is where I may be seen to invite name calling upon myself.. it is also naivety, and yes, stupidity.

Something that so many people are either too stupid, too naive, too much in denial or too delusional to accept, is that the recent horrors caused directly by Islam are reminiscent of events that preceded and directly caused the crusades. The crusades was not a hate campaign, it was a campaign to unite and fight against hate.

The rampant stupidity of the masses, often seemingly caused by selfishness, a lack of interest for much outside of their narrow existence, never ceases to astound me.

[Trojan35]

My family is muslim but I am not, however I know history well and no buddy you can't give us a history from your brainwashed, edited European sources.

First of all both religions had mistakes, both sides tried to enslave eachother. Christians were pretty barbarian when it came to their 11-12 crusades, they were aiming to invade Jerusalem but they sacked&looted Constantinople in spite of it, they killed many people. Again Christians came to Muslim lands and they built Kingdom Of Antioch also Kingdom Of Jerusalem, however Salahaddin Ayyubi kicked their asses back to their land and they couldn't come back for about 800 years.

On 1299 Ottoman Empire was established, and they slapped Europeans again and again until mid 1700s then they started to lose lands because European powers were pretty much compared to Ottomans. Then slowly Europeans invaded North Africa where Muslims were living ( still living ) and when it came to WW1 they invaded whole Middle East except Turkey, since Turkey isn't Middle Eastern anyway.. they tried to take it too but got an ass kick on 1922. Still today USA is at Afghanistan, they invaded Iraq now trying to make plans over Iran and shit. We all know who's more barbaric, you are the reason of 2 biggest World Wars lmao.

[PillowThief]

When you brainwash children from a young age to believe in your religion, you're shit on the other side of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. We need to shed both religions and all of their denominations. They hold back science, they cause social and political unrest, and historically, they've proven diabolical in their own rights and to this day they still do. There's your moral comparison, sir. We get rid of both, not one of them. Christianity is as big a sadistic joke as Islam is.

[morrowlow]

As a Muslim i'd never justify the blood that was shed by Muslims in those invasions. But if you think about it objectively both these Muslims and the crusaders were a bunch of blood thirsty lunatics who thought that killing people would get them closer to god. Please don't tell me that no innocent civilian was killed in crusades and all those crusaders were saints. people do stupid things. Don't put it down to their religion! some Christian priests sexually abuse little kids but is it okay to assume that the ultimate goal of Christianity is pedophilia?

[MementoMori_]

The difference is that Christians who murder infidels are violating the written commands of their Bible. But Muslims who murder infidels are obeying the written commands of their Koran. The former is a violation of their religious calling and the latter is the prescribed practice of their religious calling.

[MementoMori_]

Allow me to anticipate your response as it's probably pretty predictable. You will deny that the Koran commands Muslims to murder non-believers. I have seen arguments on both sides. I am not a religious scholar nor do I wish to become one. I will leave that debate to those who are interested in having it. It really doesn't interest me. What does interest me is the worldwide massacre and wholesale genocide of innocent people that is taking place RIGHT NOW at the hands of Muslims who believe the Koran commands them to undertake these barbaric acts. I am far more interested in putting and end to that by any means necessary than debating the fine points of Islamic religious belief. It's not about what you or I believe, it's about what THEY believe. I'll leave it up to scholars to debate who the "real" Muslims are. I have no interest in it at all. While that is being debated, Muslims are slaughtering innocent people worldwide and so far I have not heard a peep from a single Muslim condemning it here, only attempts to justify it.

[morrowlow]

believe me we Muslims are in no way allowed to hurt those who don't follow our faith let alone killing them. Muslims are prohibited from starting wars and we can fight "infidels" only if they start fighting us. anyway i can't really support what some fanatic Muslims are doing around the world.

[morrowlow]

i get your point. first of all i need to point out that most of the victims that were killed by these extremists were muslims so it's not christianity or judaism they have problem with. I also feel that someone should stop those terrorists. Koran is a real complicated book and you can translate it in any way that you want. The terrorists that you here about in the media aren't even that religious. They're more like a cult. but hating all Muslims because of a couple of terrorist groups is the same mindset that held by many dictators throughout history

[MementoMori_]

I appreciate your attempt at least to be open minded. I find most Muslims I encounter are not including one here who wrote a gigantic list of nasty posts about me and other non-Muslims and then blocked so that I could not respond.

However, I think you still attempt to minimize the characterization of the problem. It's not a "couple of terrorist groups," It's a worldwide consortium of HUNDREDS of terrorist groups who are slaughtering people in the name of Islam. Again, you say they are not the real Muslims. But they differ with you on that. I don't care who is right, that's not the issue. The issue is that there is a significant percentage of Muslims who are committing terrorist acts, another significant percentage who are funding these terrorist acts, another significant percentage of Muslims who condone these terrorist acts (either openly or tacitly) and another significant percentage of Muslims who try to minimize the threat.

[MementoMori_]

I also want to respond to this:
"so it's not christianity or judaism they have problem with."

Muslims don't have a problem with Judaism? The only reason they have not killed every last Jew in the Middle East is because they can't. The Jews finally learned to defend themselves after at least a million of them were murdered or driven out of the Muslim countries of the Middle East where they lived since before Islam even existed. While 20% of the population of Israel is Muslim, virtually no Jews are still living in the Muslim countries of the Middle East because they were murdered and driven out.

[MementoMori_]

I'd hate to see what would happen to Jews if Muslims DID have a problem with Judaism!

[englisc]

Everybody is arguing that their side was the more moral side. In reality, all war is horrible. Every side does things that are considered "evil" - you don't win a war by treating your enemies kindly. People just like to paint their side as the "good guys".

[N192K001]

True, they were defensive, but their execution was Hell!

Eastern Orthodox Constantinople fell because the Catholic Crusaders who came to their rescue back-stabbed the already-battered Eastern guardians, massacred/raped/raided the "heretics" and presented them to the Muslim forces on a silver platter.

[Curmudgeon]

THIS. The Fourth Crusade robbed the Crusaders of any net good to history, and led to the hordes almost reaching Vienna centuries later.

[TheWormGuy]

I think you're mixing up jihad with islamic extremists. islamic extremists are just as bad as the christian crusaders. the christian crusades wasn't just 'freeing christians from muslims' but was also about slaughtering muslims, jews, and any non-christians to take the holy land for the christian church. The difference being islamic extremism effects the world, the crusade effected whatever land the christians found themselves in.

[MementoMori_]

I agree with most of that. The Crusades were not without their own atrocities. But it is true that Europeans were brutally attacked for almost 500 years before they turned the tables and went into the Middle East to fight back against the Muslims who attacked them. And it's also true that Islamic terrorism has been going on for 1,400 years and continues to this day all over the globe whereas the Crusades lasted less than 200 years and ended almost 800 years ago. There really is no comparison between the two either in duration or in the scope of the geography they cover. Nor is there any question about which one represents the biggest threat TODAY. And by the way, it wasn't only Christians who were slaughtered and enslaved by Muslims throughout that period, it was also Jews who lived there since antiquity. Rarely mentioned are at least 1.5 million Jews who lived in places that were invaded and taken over by Muslims during those wars and then either murdered or driven out of their homes and lands. No one ever seems to talk about that.

[TheWormGuy]

I 100% agree with this

[9teen]

Don't believe everything you read on internet kids. Read books and listen to speeches of those who actually studied history in depth instead.

Here we go again with the ignorance and naiveness. Person #66478. Next.

[MementoMori_]

Name ANYTHING in this video that is not a true fact.

What is ignorant is to make a statement like you did without giving any case to support it.

[BellumEtPacem]

The video is quite biased.

[MementoMori_]

That's a statement of conclusion without a case. Are you going to give a case to back it up?

[BellumEtPacem]

😂😂

[MementoMori_]

I'll take that as a no, you are not going to back your statement up with any factual case.

[BellumEtPacem]

It's basically a piece of persuasion. It just lists supposed facts and expects you to believe them

[BellumEtPacem]

It's easy to tell he has something against Islam

[BellumEtPacem]

That's a basic observation.

[BellumEtPacem]

It continues to state the word "Jihad" and expect you to conclude that it's bad

[Anonymous]

The crusades were the resistance, the first real fight back against the violent invading hordes of Islam.

[MementoMori_]

The Crusades only happened after Christians were attacked, raped, pillaged and enslaved and had their lands taken by Muslims for almost 500 years. How much were they expected to take?

[Opinion Owner]

I agree completely. The first time they were stopped was by Charles martel in france at the battle of your 732.

[Nadim171]

Exactly, the crusades were a response to over 400 years of Islamic attacks on Christians. If the crusades didn't happen there wouldn't have been any catholic church nowadays. It was the only way to protect the Christian west from Islam. And still today islam attacks us. Muslims conquered Christian cities and took it's women and even kids as sex slaves. Islam is the most immoral religion.

[Anonymous]

Forget about the Christians or even Religion for a moment. I dare Islamic Jihadists to try enslaving hard core Chinese Communists.

[MementoMori_]

You make a good point, but unfortunately when you intentionally try to die for your cause, lethal response is not a deterrent. A year or two ago ISIS was threatening China. Ironically, when President Trump nearly wiped ISIS out, he also reduced the threat of terrorism to China. Not sure where the threat level of Islamic terrorism stands towards China today, but it does indeed exist. Nowhere on the planet is safe from the cancer of Islamic terrorism. It is the scourge of the planet.

http://i.share.pho.to/13f5f6c6_o.png

[Opinion Owner]

While we're on the topic of terrorism, here's another Gag member's question you might find interesting.

[Opinion Owner]

"BRING THE TERROR TO THE TERRORISTS!!" Big thanks to a Pink Anon who expressed this awesome rant in another question! Should Trump use it? ↗

[loveslongnails]

As Samuel Clemens once said " “I can understand perfectly how the report of my illness got about, I have even heard on good authority that I was dead." And later in the letter: "The report of my death was an exaggeration.” Your assessment of the Jihad is spot on. As to "Trump nearly wiping out ISIS", I would have to say the "the report of their death is an exaggeration".

[MementoMori_]

Okay, since we are using word plays I should amend my statement:

"... when you intentionally try to die for your cause, lethal response is not a deterrent."

By adding that lethal response is a deterrent, but it is only a deterrent after they are killed. Generally that deters them from further acts of murder. So the object of the effort against Islamic terrorism is to KILL THEM.<also emphasis on the PERIOD. A lot of people mistake THIS for an immoral response when in fact the immoral response is NOT to kill them before they have a chance to murder more innocents. And the even more immoral response is to try to dismiss and minimize the threat that Islamic terrorism poses.

[MementoMori_]

Not as good as Mark Twain, but I hope I made my point.

[loveslongnails]

Oh, I don't have a problem with that. I was just saying that I don't think ISIS is almost wiped out. I believe they have hurt and compromised, but as you know, they are like cockroaches. I have no moral dilemma defending ourselves against and hence killing jihadists, Muslim or otherwise actually. But I must also point out, even though I think the whole religion is bullshit and founded by a con man/pedophile, I don't want to wipe out all non-jihadist Muslims. However THEY need to understand, that the freedom to "practice" your religion in this country in NO WAY means you are going to be turning this country into your religious state. No effin way.

[emmily2396]

While Islam is really bad, I wouldn't defend Christianity. How many people were urned alive by the church for heresy? Being a scientist or simply being viewed as a witch are not reasons to kill someone, but for the church they were...

[MementoMori_]

Okay... but let's talk about TODAY. Here is a documented list of 110 Islamic attacks, committed in the name of Islam, in 23 countries, in which 544 people were killed and 715 injured JUST IN THE LAST 30 DAYS.

Let's compare that with a list of Christian terrorist attacks during the same period. How about Jewish terrorist attacks? Hindu? Buddhist? ANY other religion?

The answer is the same for the 30 days before that, and the 30 days before that, and the 30 days before that and so on going back HUNDREDS if not in the THOUSANDS of years.

There is no comparison between the 1,400 year Jihad of Islam which is STILL going on today and the acts of violence committed by any other religion. Islam stands alone in both the magnitude, scope and duration of their atrocities. And most importantly it is the ONLY religion on planet earth today that is committing such atrocities on a wholesale basis.

[MementoMori_]

www.thereligionofpeace.com/.../attacks.aspx

[emmily2396]

yeah, but Christianity is 600 years ahead of Islam... 600 years ago Christianity wasn't better. While we live in modern age, the level of intelligence of many of the believers aren't much greated than that of the people who lived in the 1400s

[MementoMori_]

I don't dispute that Christianity committed atrocities in the past. And just like any other group of mortals they also make mistakes that when viewed in hindsight are not moral. But if we move on to the here and now, instead of debating academic history it cannot be denied that Islam represents the biggest threat to civilization of any religion on earth today. And I think that is the most important point to those who care about the future of humanity.

[emmily2396]

Yes, today they are a bigger threat

[MementoMori_]

Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed talking to you.

[InTimoreDei]

Christians were burned alive by Muslim invaders as well, you know that right?

[RainbowSmile]

Yes but these are bad Christians and it has nothing to do with the religion or teaching of the religion itself because the Bible teaches that murder is always wrong and should never be done. Anyone who kills is in direct conflict with the teaching of the Bible. Islam on the other hand has verses from the Quran which can justify heinous acts. Two completely different teachings. Good and bad people follow both but the Quran implies violence is acceptable and in some cases a responsibility and the Bible clearly rejects it

[liburnia]

You're telling the truth, but the Church admited, and has apologized for all the wrong they did in the past, but I didn't hear the Muslims apologize for the acts of extremists. And I live in town where Ottomans were defeated in 1593 on their way for Vienna. And you have no ideea what they'we been doing to the people on this areas for 2 centuries (14 - 16 century). And all in the name of religion and spreading Islam in Europe.

[MementoMori_]

As to the debate about which is the "real" Islam, the Islam of the terrorists or the Islam of the non-violent Muslims, I will leave that to the religious scholars to sort out. It's hardly a concern to those who are being decimated by Islamic terrorism on a daily basis. Ask them if they would like to join the academic discussion. Seriously, who cares. And if you are going to engage in that discussion let's start off with the ubiquitous commands to terrorism in the Koran. My personal view is that anyone who would associate themselves with Islam, a religion whose founding document calls for the intentional slaughter of innocent people, is immoral and an enabler for terrorism at minimum.

[pleasestopthis]

You can say whatever you want but Christian crusades were everything but christian. They didn't ever convey the real message of Christ's gospel, it was pure slaughter

[MementoMori_]

Christians were brutalized by Muslims for almost 500 years before they fought back. How long is long enough before you fight back? Did Christ say you should just let people murder, rape and enslave you without defending yourself?

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Oh cool another diatribe trying to convince us all the killing one group did for their fairy tales was better than all the killing some other group did for their fairy tales, which are slightly different.

*golf clap*

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

And then I realized this thread is 6 months old. Golf clap on me

[Anonymous]

www.foxnews.com/.../president-obama-comparing-the-crusades-to-muslim-terror

Never forget this.

[ObscuredBeyond]

I'd say Marxism has trumped Islam in this regard. Muslims have killed a LOT; but Marxist ideology and its numerous flavored variants have killed hundreds of millions.

[markscott]

How about the "crusades" in the Americas, where natives were forced into religion, and many were killed.