Why is American society so idiotic? Maybe hating Russian folks in America for something they did not do, is just plain stupid.

[RolandCuthbert]

What is the point of harassing Russian-Americans? Even if they are Putin supporters? I mean, racist, bigots, insano fruitcake xenophobes are a dime a dozen at GaG. But for those folks who have an ounce of sanity, it should be easy to not get caught up in this nonsense. There is nothing logical about harassing Russian-Americans. Consider this;

1. Most Russians, either here or overseas, once they have independent information are against the war.

2. Even if they are Putin supporters, harassing them only reinforces their belief that Americans are unfairly biased. I know it is really hard for many folks at GaG. I know online trolls pretend that if you treat folks with respect, if you treat folks the way you wish to be treated, that if you get to know folks personally, culturally and get some knowledge about their group identity, that is like the most uber-liberal commie socialist thing you can do. In truth, it isn't. It might just be common sense. Then if you assess a belief system that is repulsive or repugnant, you can at least dislike or hate the basis of something real, rather than some superstitious nonsense you watched on youtube.

3. Then even if you are boycotting restaurants of owners and employees who are Putin-loving, that isn't doing a thing to help Ukraine. Send some money. Befriend some Ukrainian refugees online using instagram, facebook, or vk and send money personally. Join some Ukrainian American groups. Meet with them, get their updates on the war, on the need for food, water, medical supplies, etc. And don't just stop there. Join some Russian groups too!

There is a difference between loving Russian culture, which I do, and loving Vladimir Putin. You don't have to agree with the Russian government to have a Russian friend. You don't have to blame an entire culture, race or grouping, because of the actions of a few. That is a choice. So make better freaking choices. Stop just going along with the crowd and have the courage to meet Russian people in your community, city, etc. face to face. Because this nonsense, we have been doing for centuries, this whole ethnic group race bullcrap. And all it has done is sown misery, death, destruction and sorrow. So before you start cursing out Russian folks, try getting to know them first. So at least when you get angry, it will be about an actual disagreement. Hating someone over superstition is just stupid.

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/russian-american-workers-harassed.aspx

Some Russian-American employees in the U.S. are being discriminated against and harassed based on their national origin following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and many state laws prohibit discrimination on the basis of national origin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/07/antirussian-hate-putin-europe/

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2022/0310/Russian-Americans-face-misdirected-blame-for-war-in-Ukraine

As the smell of beef stroganoff swells before a lunch-hour rush, Halina Yatskevich reads recent reviews off a smartphone. Behind the counter of her cozy Masha and the Bear Russian Cafe, she revisits a few one-star posts that say “the whole world is against Russia” along with a call to “go home.”

The posts don’t even mention Belarus, her actual home country, which has sided with Russia in its war against Ukraine.

Though customers are largely supportive, the posts leave her “disappointed, upset,” she says softly, finding the right words in English with the aid of a Ukrainian worker. A small blue-and-yellow flag stands nearby. “I support Ukraina,” says Ms. Yatskevich.

Alona Kolesnyk, from Ukraine, and Halina Yatskevich, from Belarus, stand together in Ms. Yatskevich's Masha and the Bear Russian Cafe, in Aurora, Colorado, March 4, 2022. There shouldn’t be hate, says Ms. Kolesnyk. “It doesn’t matter what nation you’re from.”

This is a perfect example of what I mean. Ms. Kolesnyk and Ms. Yatskevich actually come from different cultures. They actually can have substantive disagreements, yet they figured out how to get along and understand each other. But in the insano world of America, we simply parrot lies about different groups of cultures, races, ethnicities, etc. When does this crap stop?

[Msputiton]

Sadly this is just the American way.

They struggle to judge people as an individual but as a race, nationality, religion or sexual orientation.

Many Americans feel the need to have a group of people be evil so they can feel like the hero.

[Appleby33]

People are heartless.

[blundernuts]

I believe it is a case of ignorance. We need to expect more from our educational systems from Mr President on down.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, perhaps people are. But American society seems to be the only one where people rationalize their heartlessness.

[OctopusEars]

Roland, this is a fabricated problem. In a world where a huge portion of the world lives by the motto “death to America”, you are living in a false reality. There is no massive anti Russia movement in this country. There’s a base line backlash because they’re so obviously in the wrong in this situation, but you are an overly emotional little girl.

[RolandCuthbert]

@OctopusEars Dude, I will take the word over my Russian friends over yours any day. You are nameless account on the internet. My best friend and I have known each other for at least 12 years. We travel together and even before this he was being harassed. Now it is out of control. And the comments are not just anti-Putin or anti-war. They are anti-Russian and anti-Russian culture. If you want to join my discussion group, I have no issues with that. I am trying to get him to present for a meetup about this issue. We have had numerous discussions with my Ukrainian friends talking about their ordeals.

But I am not going to take what you say seriously when I have the opinion of the Russian folks I count as loved ones and dear friends.

[Friendlybro79]

@RolandCuthbert The right wing and right wing media is most likely to portray this hearltessness. It's a large part of our society but not the entire society. This is everywhere not just here. We definitely get more attention for stuff to make you feel like its the entire American society but it's not.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Friendlybro79 Well, in my discussion group, I imagine we will be talking about this stuff for the next year or so. I am reaching out to more Russian/Russian-Americans. I just want to give my members a well rounded view of Russians living in America. Because you are right, it has nothing to do with American politics. Both folks on the right and left use this language. And it is hurtful. But we have been so well trained.

[numscul]

I find it odd that someone that talks about "independent information" from someone trapped inside a liberal propaganda information bubble and refuses to even approach new information with an open mind and without liberal bias dictating what is and is not true or false even when evidence is provided to them

You really are a something... you speak some truth about "once they have independent information they are against the war."

but you personally reject any information that you personally disagree with and avoid all information that might make you rethink your establish and incorrect ideas along with your unwillingness to even try is contradictory and hypocritical... almost like you have now fucking clue what you say half the time
Very interesting psychology happening in that confused head of yours you know that?
It must be nice existing in a world of your own where you are always right even when you are so so so very wrong... You need to take your med's too don't you?

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, I find it pretty standard to hear the same old conspiracy rant from another cowardly troll on the Internet. I find nothing about you compelling or interesting. You and yours believe in absurdity which is why we have atrocities in this world. Your belief is that people can and should be slaughtered over your extremist nonsensical beliefs. And that folks deserve to be arrested or punished simply for disagreeing with your politics.

Then you post me ranting nonsensically about your bullshit that has nothing to do with my stated premise.

AND THAT IS TO STOP HATING FOLKS BASED UPON THEIR ETHNIC IDENTITY AND HATE THEM FOR THEIR VIEWS.

And I know you are starving for attention, so consider yourself ignored. You are not worth the 30 seconds it took to type this.

[numscul]

YOUR "PREMISE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE... IT SAID IT ALL IN THE FIRST SENTENCE
besides abstract points of view are meaningless
The you claimed that if they had some kind of different information the people from the attacking side would feel different

Now look at the situation me and you are in right now... and tell me how you are not acting like the Russians are to the Ukrainians...

You think the Russians just refuse to listen to the Ukrainians and they are just attacking and killing
And refuse to hear the other side out... exactly like when you refuse to even do a simple search even on a liberally biased search engine... NOPE do you see a connection you acting like Russia?

what side is acting irrational?

you get what im sayin

probably not ok whatever

[TDDMS]

My comment is more directed at the people in the comment section who have this bipolar view of the Russian/Ukraine war where they see Russia=bad and Ukraine=good.

Firstly, this war didn't just start out of no where, remember: Ass whoppings don't just fall out of the sky. For over 10 years now Ukraine and NATO has been antagonizing Russia into either starting an all out European war and/or restart the cold war. With what is now known is there were bio-weapons labs throughout Ukraine, as an aside, who in their right mind wants bio-weapons labs at their doorstep? Shit, just look at what happened in China 2 years ago.

And then we have the ever so called progressive notion of sexual degeneracy that has been creeping ever east in Europe. And then we have our psychos in Congress the likes of Mitt Romney, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, the Biden Crime Family, and Clinton Crime Family, Lindsey Graham, and the like, they want war because they have personal financial interests. Or have you noticed how Fauci disappeared once info emerged at the UN and elsewhere of the bio-weapons labs. I'm quite confident we will find out that he and others were doing far more fucked up shit than many of us could conceive.

And Ukraine they have other illicit going ons, are you aware that even though child pr0n is illegal in Ukraine, it's still one of the biggest hot spots for such, probably why Lindsey Graham is nervous. . . . his supply is getting disrupted.

Lastly, for about 10 years now, Zelensky and his tribe have been ethically cleansing Russians in the east. So once you put all of these facts together, it no longer looks like Ukraine was this innocent country sitting all by itself and Russia came along and attacked them. I know for people who have this bipolar view of the world don't understand that on the global scale, life doesn't operate anywhere near how school yard fights begin.

[RolandCuthbert]

I just want to make sure that everyone knows that while most Russian people may have a different view of history, the role of the government, NATO, etc. they are not any where near as batshit crazy as your post.

Most do not believe Ukraine has any biological weapons. Most do not believe Ukraine all of a sudden, has abandoned the core traditions, morality and ethics typically associated with Slavic cultures.

As for your nonsensical accusations, trumpturd land has nothing on pedophiles, liars, thieves, murderers, racists, and freaks. The only difference is you excuse the behavior anyone you think is apart of your narrow insane political platform.

And if our world ends, it will be because of the pathetic pitiful folks like you who have nothing to live for, therefore if the world ends in fire and death, it is no skin off your back. Just like any religious extremist who cannot stand being miserable and lonely whil others are happy and free. You invisible nameless cowards are indeed, the new American Taliban. But after thinking about it, maybe you are as old as time.

[TDDMS]

It's kind of hard for me to be a "trumptard" when I didn't even vote for him during either election. Now regarding "most do not believe Ukraine has any biological weapons." Did you not pay attention to the recent hearing as lead by Marco Rubio and viruses they were working? Even they engaged in word play about what was discovered in Ukraine. Moreover, the viruses they even said that were being worked on in Ukrainian biological labs are viruses that we already have known proven effective treatments and cures. We have 400 years of proven experience with small pox vaccine, so why are they working w/ that virus when we already have a solution to that virus? Also, why are they working w/ bubonic plague when we already have again proven effective treatments for such? now, the US government doesn't have the greatest track record, so I'm going to err on the side that they were engaging in nefarious behavior. Regarding the remainder of your comment, you're just a dumb arrogant nihilist who freaks out at anyone who has ideas and information that goes counter to your ideology.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, you can pretend to be whatever you wish. Crazy folks are famous for loose connections to reality. And what you post is so nonsensical it does not deserve a response. Somehow someway, there are these biological labs in Ukraine creating viruses, because we just like creating viruses in Ukraine.

Wow. . .

[TDDMS]

yawn lol

[Jay3344]

I have not encountered Russian hate from any Americans I know but most people I associate with, I consider more or less sensible. They are concerned about the events, reasons, and ramifications of what the Russian government is doing and has been doing in Ukraine but I would not say they blame the general public of Russia. Manufactured consent is as big a thing there as it is here so usually the public that support atrocities are just being duped anyways. But I would not say that American culture which represents sooooo many people is one way or another. I mean even city to city the culture can be drastically different, so American culture is not idiotic in my opinion. Just maybe the outlets of information or sections of society that you have observed. Consider this, New York culture vs Texan culture vs Floridian culture. Three very different areas that are all “American” but are they really that similar? They have different state governments that follow federal rules but make up their own within the state and the climates are different, the people that live there are very different and so the beliefs are different. If you’ve read this far, don’t mind me I’m just going on and on…. on GaG

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, I can't question your personal experience. As for your claim about American society. . of course this is not about the multiculture, right?

Think about American society in terms of Muslims. Then compare. Would you make the same claim about folks from Iran. Would you say that we do not have a significant portion of our society who believe Muslims are fine with terrorism and other extremist beliefs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y4tXROzQe4

[dragoblack]

Americans are not taught by everyone to be accepting, we as a society are shown bad parts about every skin color & culture based on bad intentions of those around us and the tv information network that feeds on diversity & lies while hiding truths. Because the government, their corporations, and their shareholders, manipulate our society to their whims for profit. Our government doesn't manage the country's stability anymore, it's all about profit and control over the populis. Granted, not all of us are like that and want unity, acceptance, stability, and a well informed society... sadly that is a struggle to work toward. If the United states people were not so groomed to be so egotistical, selfish, gluttonous, hateful, and consumeristic, we wouldn't be so idiotic and be more analytical about the situation and understanding... sadly that is only but a dream and the United states is closer to an economic bubble collapse that will destroy the country leaving people suffering and the rich the only ones thriving as they designed

[RolandCuthbert]

It is all I want man. I am not saying folks can't hate me, hate others. . . but if you are going to hate, do it for the right reasons. Because you disagree with a person's views.

This crap is just crazy.

[Avicenna]

I don't think most ordinary people in the US hate Russians, and I'd wager that most are concerned about the treatment being meted out to Russians (you didn't mention the seizure of property they are being subjected to in some places, which is extremely worrisome and does not appear to be legally justified). It seems to me that your criticism would be best directed at the elites in the media and government who are pushing the anti-Russian rhetoric and property seizures.

I hope you're able to apply what you've expressed here to other contexts and to other groups of people you aren't as sympathetic to.

[RolandCuthbert]

I am not at all concerned about the seizure of property of oligarchs. They are partially responsible for this mess. i am concerned about folks who have no responsibility for this craziness, who never wanted this war in the first place and who probably count many Ukrainians among their family and loved ones.

Your weird anti-liberal rant has nothing to do with understanding the situation and holding folks responsible for their views and beliefs and not the culture or group identity they claim. Your post is another in a long line where folks can't just do the most simplistic thing. Just make the right choice.

[Avicenna]

You may not be concerned about the property seizures, but you should be. Property rights should be sacrosanct. If the oligarchs have broken laws, then by all means deal with that in accordance with the law using due process; however, the fact that their money has until now been welcome suggests that they haven't, and we don't want to do anything to damage foreign investment as well as uphold the right of property owners to not be subjected to illegal property seizures.

There are Russians who are losing jobs due to their nationality, and whether or not they are Putin supporters, that's just wrong, and as you point out, illegal. And the property seizures fall under that as well.

I understand the situation quite well. If you're calling for tolerance for Russians, I agree fully, but that should not be limited to the Russians who hold the viewpoints currently deemed in compliance with a corrupt US elite. Again, if they are violating our laws, then by all means do something about it, but merely supporting Putin doesn't mean they should lose their property and/or jobs. And nor should anyone else. If we don't have property rights and free speech, we don't have a free society.

[RolandCuthbert]

Look I am not a sociopath. I have a female friend who cannot leave Ukraine. She is in Kharkiv with her 18 year old son and husband. Her son can't leave. He was born in Ukraine. Her husband isn't Ukrainian, but they are going to stay with her son. And now they are doing whatever they can to survive, day to day. I have a gofundme setup to send them money and I have already sent thousands.

I do not care about some Russian government oligarch who has made his money in an oppressive totalitarian state. When he can simply buy another 100 million dollar boat. Putin has the Russian military committing war crimes. And the losing some property is hardly penance for the death and destruction being wrought. I get it. . . you don't have anyone over there. You are not listening to your friends crying in despair. You are not worried when you get a message at 3am saying "they are firing missiles in Dnipro, me and my niece are in the hallway on the floor. I am scared."

I get it. You are just the nameless and the faceless of the internet. You make political philosophical arguments just like they have something to do with real life. Just like it can address folks who are starving or me trying to find money for 2 and 3 year olds who have not had a change of clothes since leaving Kharkiv.

But that is my life and it is about 3 miles past silly to try to convince me that these are not my experiences.

It is wrong to die in a nonsensical war. It is wrong that children are dying, are homeless, are hungry. And in the most galacticly stupid conflict where there is no possible way Putin can win. We have to sanction Russians indiscriminately because Ukrainian citizens are dying indiscriminately. And if there slightest chance that some of the bigshots will start confront Putin over this nonsense, then we will sanction them until the end of time.

The funny thing is, I don't know a single Russian who does not agree with sanctions.

[Avicenna]

It's not mutually exclusive to have concern for the Ukrainian people while simultaneously being concerned about due process and property rights in the US. IMHO, Putin has to suffer battlefield defeats to get him to stop- the oligarchs do not hold that kind of sway over him. It's similar in a larger scale to Milosevic in the Balkans. Let's continue to supply the Ukrainians, also for guerilla warfare against a future puppet regime.

It's good that you're helping people there and that's something we as individuals can do, but a government that violates property rights won't stop at Russian oligarchs (as we know from abusive civil forfeiture actions that have been around for decades). Due process and property rights aren't mere abstract philosophical arguments. A free democratic society isn't supposed to violate them. Does anyone think the federal government will stop with Russian oligarchs' property if they're permitted to do it for the duration of this conflict?

[RolandCuthbert]

Uhm, you are telling me to have concern about due process for Russian Oligarchs. When they are not American citizens. They are not covered by our Constitution. But then when it comes to International law, Putin is killing women, children, the elderly and non-combatants indiscriminately. You obviously do not care about due process for them.


As for your assessment of the authority of Oligarchs, I don’t know anyone who would agree with you. Putin can’t rule Russian society alone. He needs support. He has to give authority of his economy over to economic experts. He has to give authority of his intelligence apparatus to his intelligence experts. He has to give military authority to generals who have military expertise. To pretend that sanctioning these high-level officials won’t affect their calculus for what is a viable future for themselves and their families, is not a rational position.

So we will sanction Russia back to the stone age. The funny thing is you are wholly obsessed with sanctions from the U. S., when there is little interaction between the U. S. and Russia economically.

The sting from the sanctions come from Europe. That is why the Russian economy is in freefall. They are Russia’s number one trading partner. The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, France, etc. Collectively, they outpace even China.

Again, due process is for American citizens. Right now, Russia is guilty of war crimes. And to sit by without doing anything makes criminals of us all.

It would be like claiming we were too hard on Hitler for seizing his assets on American soil. It is a nonsensical view. You are here talking about what the American government will or will not do. We have done this to Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. with no push back from the public. It seems as if your concerns are very specific.

[Avicenna]

I think you misunderstood. I’m talking about due process within the US, where the Constitution applies to everyone, or the equivalent in other jurisdictions like the UK. That’s separate from sanctions on Russia. As far as sanctions go, they can be effective or not so effective depending on the circumstances. And sanctions on Iran have proven quite effective, although I’m not aware of property belonging to private Iranian citizens being seized without due process, which would be the correct analog.

So you’re conflating a lot of unrelated things with a very specific concern about due process within the US, a concern not limited solely to the case of Russian citizens.

Oligarchs who haven’t played ball with Putin have paid the price in terms of a loss of freedom and/or wealth. They can’t be expected to overthrow Putin, nor can his intelligence apparatus be expected to do it. That’s wishful thinking. Putin cleverly knows how to compartmentalize the various interests he has to balance.

EU countries’ sanctions haven’t been as harsh as those of the US. And you can guess who came up with the idea of exclusion from SWIFT. And, again, I’m not talking about sanctions, which are justified. Yet strangely, the US still has Russia making giveaways to Iran for us despite the sanctions.

[RolandCuthbert]

But the Constitution does not apply equally to everyone. How could it? It was written to define our rights. U. S citizens have freedoms and rights defined in the Constitution. Those rights do not extend to non-citizens. Then when it comes to sanctions, there are specific provisions defined within the Constitution giving Congress the right to not only target nations, but specific citizens within those nations.

We are talking about provisions that are centuries old. Again, this is settled Constitutional law. While Congress cannot do this against U. S. Citizens, it can do this to non-Citizens.

You are confusing criminal law with U. S. Foreign policy and the Constitution gives the Federal government supremacy in deciding U. S. Foreign policy. No one actually thinks you can charge a Russian Oligarch with violation of a U. S. criminal statute committed off American soil.

As for expectations, none of that should be our concern. We take a foreign policy position that Russia has become a totalitarian state. And that position should be reflected in our policy. Disagreement with that policy has to do with your politics. So to pretend this is about your principles is being disingenuous. There is no violation of Constitutional principles. The Constitution could not be clearer on this matter.

Again, you are mistaken. The European sanctions are the ones that hit Russia the hardest. And we only partially enacted Swift, because too many European nations have dealings with Russia. They are still buying Russian gas/oil. They buy machinery, metals, equipment, etc. all from Russia. So they could not enact Swift totally. When they do, it will have an even bigger effect.

[Avicenna]

Well, you're clearly more interested in falsely defining me than actually seeing that it is about principles. The beauty of rights is that they aren't arbitrary and aren't supposed to depend on being in the good graces of whomever holds power in society. And people getting fired from jobs or banned from playing tennis because they are Russian and won't or can't denounce Putin loudly enough also are having their rights violated (equal protection as well as due process). As for property seizures, this quote from Joe Biden is illustrative:

“We are joining with our European allies to find and seize your yachts, your luxury apartments, your private jets. We are coming for your ill-begotten gains.”

If there is a genuine legal justification for this allegedly dirty money, why were we perfectly willing to accept their investment, purchases and to give them residency which put them into the US tax net in the first place? Why are only Russian citizens being singled out for these violations of due process and equal protection? It can't be that it's due to Russia being a dictatorship- it has always been one, and certainly always under Putin, plus we don't do this to the citizens of all dictatorships (cough, Mainland China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If US laws have been violated, why weren't they enforced until now? And if they weren't violated, why is the government now violating its own laws to violate property rights?

Russian exports are primarily energy products, with metals, wheat and weapons systems also being relatively prominent. China is the Number 1 trading partner, and Belarus is Number 3, and in a world market, energy products are fungible (I'm sure India is going to take Putin up on his offer of discounted oil).

I

[Avicenna]

If you want to continue to insist, despite clear evidence to the contrary, that my opposition to the lawless current administration's policies is due merely to politics, there's nothing I can do about that. There are better ways to support the Ukrainian people than to seize private property within the US, thus throwing away one of the great advantages we offer and discouraging foreign investment (arguably, the property seizures are not in fact intended to help Ukraine). And it's not hard to imagine illegal actions to target property owned by domestic political opponents.

The ends do not justify any and all means.

[RolandCuthbert]

Let’s not be so dramatic our rights are meant for all citizens but that is not true many times in practice.

As for banning Russia from sports again these are the same things we did to Iraq, Iran, Libya, etc. So you can pretend to make this about some principles. You are only fooling yourself. These are all apart of the traditional sanctions we enact on any state we feel is in violation of international law.

You keep lecturing me about what effect this will have upon Putin. Your position is simply not rational.

You are asking why didn’t we enact sanctions long ago? Are you kidding? It was a political decision.

If trump were in, Congress would have to what it did before. Pass veto proof legislation and hope trumps handpicked Supreme Court did not rule it unconstitutional. The court sided with them before. But who knows what could happen in the future. As for Bidens response, it was nonsense. We would not be sanctioning Russian oligarchs if Putin did not escalate his war on Ukraine. This has nothing to do with ill-gotten gains.

But again that is a political discussion. Not one about constitutional principles.

As for people being singled out, stop being dramatic. Russians are not the only ones being singled out. When trump sanctioned Iran did you whine about innocent Iranians? Of course not. We sanctioned Venezuela. Did you post about that? Of course not. So again stop being disingenuous.

I never attempted to claim these actions were beyond the purview of the federal government. And the funny thing is those nations were not invading or attacking anyone. We just disagree with their foreign policy.

[RolandCuthbert]

Really quickly about sanctions and trading partners.

I don’t know if you understand your own argument about trading partners. You seem to have forgotten your point was that we were drastically hurting Russia with our sanctions. When Europe is Russia’s number one trading partner. China is number 2. You do know that the European Union is one trading bloc, right? It is the largest trading bloc on the planet. Maybe you need to agree to some basic objective facts first before trying to make these arguments.

[RolandCuthbert]

No there is no clear evidence to the contrary. You offer no evidence as to why sanctions against Russia should be different than sanctions against any other nation. Like I said you are only fooling yourself. I know all about devastating sanctions we have enacted against other nations. We caused the collapse of Iran’s economy.

I didn’t say a word about it. And neither did you. Only one of us is consistent.

So if Biden is lawless when even Congress is passing veto proof legislation for sanctions maybe you aren’t really being all that rational.

Just a thought.

www.politico.com/.../house-ban-import-russian-oil-00015865

[Avicenna]

Well, surprise, surprise, these wonderful sanctions you touted haven't worked, and they've been very counterproductive to our European allies who rely on Russian energy resources. The point is not that one country has to be sanctioned because others were. The decision to do sanctions should be based on our national interests. I don't see what US national interests are served by sanctioning Russia, but they certainly serve the interests of the Biden Administration in camouflaging the fact that it has deliberately raised the price of fossil fuels through its policies.

I also don't think you should assume what position I have on sanctions on Venezuela and Iran, which are two very different situations. Iran is the world's foremost sponsor of terrorism and there's their nuclear program as well. Sanctioning them made sense. I would not sanction Venezuela.

It wouldn't hurt you to admit that you're wrong sometimes.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, you don't seem to know your own argument. Sanctions by America can't really do anything to Russia. The only entity capable of exacting real pain upon Russia is Europe. It is like you can't remember your original premise. That the U. S. was wrong for sanctioning Russia, even as our sanctions can't really impact the Russian economy.

I am going to tell you again, to remember your whining about what the U. S was doing to Russia, when Europe has place an a travel ban on most Russian citizens.

I don't have to assume your positions. You have stated them quite clearly, whether you know that or not.

[Avicenna]

It’s pretty obvious that the real pain being inflicted is on Europe by Russia. Russia has other markets for its energy and it’s not greatly affected by European sanctions that were done at the behest of the US. And I’ve never suggested the sanctions on Russia were really hurting it and preventing it from waging war. If they were effective, it would be a different analysis.

As usual, you don’t care about US national interests, meaning you continue to miss the forest for the trees. But illegal
property seizures aren’t a good policy. And the never-ending amounts of money and weapons being funneled to Ukraine would be better spent at home. Ukraine is not our national interest, nor are the current sanctions on Russia and poking the bear, pushing it ever closer to China and Iran.

And assuming things is what you do all the time.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, then you have successfully destroyed your own argument. The sanctions levied by Europe has done nothing to Russia.

:D

Illegal seizures of property? That is hilariously absurd. Putin has invaded Ukraine, killing men, women and children. He is sacrificing tens of thousands of his own troops. I can't talk about equipment as your analysis is that the war, Europe's sanctions have done nothing to the Russian economy..

I just got back from Germany visiting with my friends who are refugees. So I am not sure why I care about some anonymous poster's worry over the seizure of an Russian oligarch's boat.

[Luopio27]

This is madness. This is the world we live in. Hardworking entreprenuers and employees pay the taxes that pay the bills if the weapons of death thst the governments require the same people to fight each other for a political power play. There is no war crimes, because war itself is a crime against humanity. Soldiers dont get to vote peace in times of war.


The sanctiona against russia will not end the war. It only fuels hatred towards russian civilians. Here in my country, even 5 year olds are told not to play with russians by their parents, according to the child protection union's report. Another case is 21 year old woman attacked on a bus station for speakin the wrong language.


This war is wrong for all.

[RolandCuthbert]

No sanctions do not make you hate someone else. You choose to do that.

And I am going say again, make a different choice. Nothing prevents an American from talking about what their views are. America seems to be the only nation where people are trying to shrug off responsibility for their own ignorance and stupidity.

Even in a closed society like Russia people bravely do what they can to get access to the truth and to dissenting opinions. You would think in a society where you can access multiple news sources, facebook, instagram, tiktok, etc. that you would hold people responsible for their own ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD_d9j0Rod8

[Luopio27]

You are right, government and company sanctions are like guns and bullets. Its the choice of the people to shrug off their ignorance on innocent civilians, not just in America but all over.

Your post is an important reminder of humanity in these times of crises.

[Djaay]

In my entire life long perspective of America concerning the melting pot of its people ; The original places on earth where most family's and ethnic groups started before imigrating to America they're cultures and country and the people are so interesting to know. But in America , the first to engorge that nation believe they're suprior over all the others regardless of the contrary. Every country on earth , they're government is way more corrupt than its people. Except in America i'm starting to relize the people are begening to superceed the corruptness of they're own gov. I feel they've taken the liberty of the free to be free in a way of they're own accord even being free to be an asshole , talk big shit , act stupid and juvenile and relenlessly be a f... n idiot and stand united as a queer.

[Кураж]

Yeah, have to disagree.
Every Russian I know is a fucking Putinist vermin.
The only good Russian is a dead Russian.

Do you try to understand and sympathize with the KKK or people who wish slavery was never abolished?
That's what Russians are, and this is not the "actions" of a few, the Putinist vermin is 70~85% of them.

[Tyrael]

That's not even a valid comparison. You're not born KKK, that's a choice. Nationality is not.

[Кураж]

Putinism is a choice.
Electing Putin was a choice of the Russian people, terrorizing and enslaving Eastern Europe for nearly a century now was the choice of the Russian people.

They are fucking scum, and the cowards who ran away instead of fighting against the crimes of their nation are just as guilty too.
Deport them back to the backwater shithole they crawled out of so they can enjoy the glory of the USSR the way they always wanted.

Russians don't deserve to enjoy the freedoms and prosperity of the west.

[RolandCuthbert]

But I don't recommend trying to understand the KKK. I don't recommend trying to understand racists. Or even the Russians and other insane freaks who support this war. But if you are going to hate folks based upon ethnicity, then there is simply no hope at all. Because that is nonsensical. You are not hating folks based upon a voiced opinion, you are hating them for their identity,

[Кураж]

Of course I despise their identity, to me and my people the Russians are what racists and the KKK are to you.
They have terrorized my people for decades, sent our grandfathers to gulags, bombed our homes, starved us and deprived us of our sovereignty.
Your slave owners are long gone but ours are our neighbors and there is 140 millions of them.

What is there to like about "Russian identity"?
For the past 70 years Russia was a totalitarian, ethnofascist shithole of which the only claim to fame was threatening the world with nukes, invading peaceful countries and committing Slavic, Georgian, Moldovan and Chechen genocide.

The fact that they hate the west, democracy, liberal values?
That they collectively think foreigners don't belong in Russia or that LGBT rights are a "degeneracy"?
Yeah, beautiful "Russian culture", lots of things to love.

My Ukrainian family and friends now don't have a home to return to, their own Russian relatives are calling them "Nazi accomplices", their former social media friends are sending them wishes "hope you will die".
That's not Putin doing, that's "Russians culture".
They don't have a culture, they are a malignant tumor that needs to be cut off.

[RolandCuthbert]

So you know that does not make any sense, right? 140 million people have all persecuted you and yours. Every single Russian has participated. Even Alexei Navalny, who is sitting a jail for standing up to Putin. A man who was poisoned by his own government and is being forced into silence. There are the members of pussy riot who are constantly harassed and arrested. And they even survived an attempt at poisoning. So many reporters, columnists and media folks have been killed or jailed. I was in Moscow when Putin invaded Crimea. Tens of thousands were in the streets risking arrest to protest.

Russia is an extremely brutal and oppressive regime. And in order for that to change Russians may have to endure a whole lot of bloodshed.

So you judge a people under threat of death because of their leadership. It would be like hating all Germans. Even the survivors of the Holocaust limited their hatred to the Germans who committed the crimes.

As for American society, you are absolutely wrong. We have hate groups on the rise and on the march. And I can't hate whole groups of folks for the beliefs of some.

I can understand Ukrainians overseas hating Russians now. But this is America. At least get to understand how a person feels before you hate them. It would at least give your hatred a real foundation.

[Кураж]

... Alexei Navalny is a an ethnofascist who believes immigrants don't belong in Russia and he supports the annexation of Crimea and wouldn't return it to Ukraine if he was elected a president himself.

Thanks for confirming how little you actually know about the topic.

[RolandCuthbert]

And why do I care his views on his own society? He confronted Putin over the wars he has been waging and risked his life. If he and Russian people choose fascism for themselves and his country, that is up to them. My issues only begin when those beliefs leave their borders.

Now i know you are not serious. In this thread, we have genocidal psychopaths excusing and justifying genocide against Ukrainian citizens. Making excuses about how this is hurting some Russian billionaire. Or that Russian folks can't buy some shoes.

Innocent people are dying.

But you are not confronting those freaks. You are confronting me.

And I quote;

(you didn't mention the seizure of property they are being subjected to in some places, which is extremely worrisome and does not appear to be legally justified).

(You may not be concerned about the property seizures, but you should be. Property rights should be sacrosanct. If the oligarchs have broken laws, then by all means deal with that in accordance with the law using due process;)

[Кураж]

It was you who brought up Navalny as an argument.
A dude who attends and organizes ultranationalist rallies, likens immigrants to cavities that are a cause of "fascism" in Russia and openly calls for deportation of foreign nationals- THAT is second best option Russia has.

I'm pointing that out so you understand Putin is NOT the problem in Russia.
Before Putin it was Lenin, then Stalin then Brezhnev.
They hated Gorbachev and Yeltsin because they let the USSR peacefully dissolve and shifted their politics towards social democracy.

When Putin came along, they welcomed him with open arms because he brought back the values the Russians promoted for the past century- xenophobia, hatred of the west, religious bigotry and militarism.
Whenever Putin goes to war, his approval ratings skyrocket, when Russia went to slaughter people in Crimea, his approval ratings jumped to 85%.

Why is that? Why is it that Putin's ratings are rising RIGHT now while Russians are bombing Ukrainians? ( www.atlanticcouncil.org/.../ )
Because those people are swines, that's why.

They gobble all that shit Kremlin churns out, because they hate the west, they hate democratic values, they want the oppression of the USSR to be restored.
Because in the minds of these demented Russian fuckers, LGBT rallies are "Nazism", democracies are "illegitimate coups" and autocratic swines like Yanukovich who had hundreds of Ukrainian people shot are the "rightful leaders" of people.

Don't lecture me about some thousands of Russians who protested at some point, MILLIONS of Ukrainians went to the streets during Euromaidan to fight against Russian oppression in SPITE of being shot at.
The Russians are only two things, scum and spineless cowards.

[Кураж]

I'm not confronting the other freaks because where I'm from I'm used to seeing russofascism on a daily basis, they are no different from any Russian or Russian sympathizer that plaster my social media.
But at least those people are honest in their degeneracy, I find your intellectual dishonesty and Russian apologetism way more offensive.

There is nothing to like about "Russian culture", it's seeped in oppression and anyone who is proud of that is pile of garbage in my book.
Your friends should feel discriminated and ostracized, because all they have achieved for the past century is to make everyone else around them feel that way.

[Кураж]

As for your information, we have forgiven the Germans for the Holocaust because they made amends, they have denazified their nation and to this day harshly crack on those who think fondly of that legacy.
How many nations has Nazi Germany invaded since then?

The Russians? They have genocided more people in Ukraine alone during holodomor than the Nazis killed Jews in total and to this day they deny all of it.
They have been enslaving surrounding nations for 4 decades following the WW2 and to this day communist symbols stand proudly in Russia.
They elected a leader who wants to bring back the glory of USSR and they cheer every time he invades another territory that "belonged to them".

Russians are way, way worse than the Nazis ever were.
You don't understand because you are a russophile with some friend in Moscow or whatever and you think you know the Russians.

The same year the USSR fell apart they invaded Georgia, another year after that Moldova then Chechnya, in the meanwhile they have destroyed Belarus and tried to do the same to Ukraine but failed so they have chosen to burn it to the ground instead.

Russian crimes are not centuries old, they have been happening to this day.
What's "tens of thousands" of protesters in a city with 12 million people? Nothing.

[Кураж]

Also, I'm not "American", I thought that would have been obvious to you due to my location and the fact that my screen name is literally in Russian.
I live 40 miles from the Ukrainian border and half of my family currently lives in Uzhhorod, Ukraine.

[RolandCuthbert]

You still have to explain why I have to care about Navalny’s politics. And understand this, I take everything you post here with a grain of salt. If you want to come to my meetup to be confronted on your views by the Russians I know, then let’s do that. I am no expert on Navalny, but I know some folks who are.

But besides that, even if he was Hitler reborn, why do I care what he does in his own country? I never even had an issue with Putin until he invaded Crimea and Donbass.

Of course before Putin there was Brezhnev, Stalin and Lenin. WTF? We just said that Russia is a totalitarian society. So I am supposed to hate every Russian because of their leadership? And not because of their individual actions?

They welcomed Putin because they wanted to have pride in being Russian again. He took that want and twisted it. Nationalism does the same thing in every single society. To fuel ethnic pride into a blame game and hatred of everyone who is different. To pretend Russia is the only one guilty of this is to miss the this recurring theme that has caused death and destruction throughout human history.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, Russian society is totalitarian. I don’t believe a single poll. Everything parroted by their state media has to be suspect. How can you take a society seriously when their legislature always votes 100% ratifying whatever Putin wants. You cannot be serious.

And yes, I will lecture you. In America, no one is going to arrest you for whatever insane crazed conspiracy or politics you have. You can call Biden a pigfucker. No one is coming to arrest you. In Russia, right now, you can hold up a blank piece of paper then get arrested because they think you are protesting. It takes courage to protest in a fascist state. They do not have the rights and freedoms Americans have. So the comparison in courage does not apply.

[RolandCuthbert]

So let me get this straight. It isn’t productive combating the misinformation and propaganda being spread both here and throughout American society. When we both know it is for the sole purpose of changing public opinion in America in terms of this war. It is better to fight with me over the nonsensical position that we should hate every Russian and even the Russian identity itself.

Even as that act, fuels the propaganda that we don’t just dislike Putin. We don’t just dislike the idea of puppet regimes, totalitarian states, or war crimes.

It gives the propagandists all the ammunition they need to say this is all about ethnicity. That all one needs to do in order to deserve scorn and hatred is to say they are Russian. It doesn’t matter what they believe.

[RolandCuthbert]

I know all about the Holoomor and Stalin. I have spent a great amount of time in Ukraine and Latvia. I have had guided tours of the history of Russian/Soviet Union brutality to other Slavic ethnic groups.

None of that explains why anyone should hate a person simply because they claim a group identity called “Russian”. All you are doing is making the case for Russian propagandists.

And maybe that’s the entire point. To make this seem like a war against the Russian identity and not against a freakshow wannabe dictator.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, why didn't you say that?

I am not here to challenge a Ukrainian man on how he feels about this war or the Russians invading his country.

I am sitting here in tears talking to my loved ones in Dnipro at this freaking second. They have been launching missile attacks for several days. They do it to induce terror. And this family has to get up in the middle of the night to go to the basement when they begin around 2am or so. And we get on facebook messenger every single time so I can comfort them. Those attacks will probably start in about 2 hours or so. And I will be sitting here in this chair for the rest of the day talking to them until those attacks stop.

I have another family in Kharkiv, the mother/father cannot leave because their son is 18. They are staying with him no matter what. But they have sent all their other children to Poland.

A third family has just made it to Berlin. But now their life is day to day. As they are applying for refugee status, but no one appears to want to help them. That is just a fraction of the folks I am talking to.

Do you think I correct them when they scream how much they hate Russians? Do you think I cannot understand that rage, fear, and helplessness?

What do you think this is?

[Alexandrubaschet08]

All putin suporters need to face jail for life for suporting a dictator who is claiming the same place like Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Kim-Jong-Un and many others.
Only the anty Putin russians should be left alone but whit the eyes on them.
Russia is a criminal state who had never been judge for theyr crime like Germany.

[RolandCuthbert]

Russia is a criminal state because of its government, not because of its people. Don't you know any Russian people? I don't know if you are American or not. But I am quite certain that if you met any outside of Russia, you would find painfully few supporting this war.

As for supporting Putin, why is that such a crime? Before all this mess started, he had rebuilt the Russian economy. He was actually growing a Russian middle class. He seemed to be a rational man, even as he was merciless dictator who would kill or arrest political enemies and dissenters. He brutally crushed Chechnya, etc.

But you could at least see why those who benefited supported him. Even if they refused to see the truth.

Of course I can understand your statements, if you are from Latvia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc. But as an American, I don't support silencing folks simply because they like Putin. It is only when their views lead to violence do I support action against them.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

The middle class did not rise at all during Putin's time. On the contrary, the class gap in Russia is huge, the oligarchs are many and the world is overwhelmed by high prices and low wages.
I'm not from the United States, I'm from Romania and I live in London.
I also met Russians, most of them in Turkey (Antalya). I socialized with them and I also follow a youtuber from Russia.
I believe that the citizens of Suri are guilty of this situation together with the government because of their ignorance and their exaggerated tolerance for corruption.
They are lax when it comes to initiatives, in the whole history of Russia there are not as many riots as in other states. But Russia's history is full of wars, invasions, betrayals, systemic overthrow. But it does not have many revolts, which shows exaggerated tolerance for systems.
They elected a former KGB member to lead a democracy, A FATAL MISTAKE.
My parents were educated and they were right, any former communist or collaborator with them is only worthy of execution. They have been telling me since the 2000's, "He worked with the KGB, he's going to kill them all."

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Putin has entered politics illegally, through threats, bombings, assassinations and the oppression of the press.
Russia is the country where most journalists disappear, the number of protesters against the war is very small compared to the population. The protests are extremely peaceful against a brutal and lack of transparency police.
The police arrest whoever they want without being afraid of the crowd.
The Russians have been and will always be a nation of frightened cowards. From Napoleon to Hitler, the Russians feared that no one else would die, that they would die.
A Russian will sacrifice the last gram of freedom to live in his misery for a lifetime for an extra second.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Russia invaded my country while calling itself the sole protector of the Orthodox Christian countries.
They deserted the battlefield in World War I, leaving us in a war in which we had not pledged to fight from the beginning. Accepting the insistence of the great nations to enter (England, France, RUSSIA).
As an ally, they stole our national treasure, and it is not returned to this day.
They destroyed our country with their Bolshevism / communism, the Russian citizens did nothing to earn their respect in the world.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

They are just like Hitler's Nazis, the difference is that Germany and the Germans were tried and punished, and Russia and the Russians suffered absolutely no consequences.

[RolandCuthbert]

Why would I argue with you when it is objective fact? Putin grew the Russian economy from every objective standard. The average Russian's standard of living rose. Period.

www.themoscowtimes.com/.../long-read-russias-economy-under-putin-in-numbers-a66924

As for your hatred of Russian folks, again, it is just misplaced. You can recite all these historical issues. I can cite similar issues in British history, American history, Chinese history. . . again, trying to justify hatred of an ethnic group or culture is just nonsensical.

You are stating that Putin is a bad guy. Yes, I agree he is a bad guy. Why would I hate someone simply because they liked him? Especially if I have not even had the chance to talk to them about their support for Putin?

Oh, so Russia invaded Romania? Well, mayhap that is a reason for hating the invasion, what was done, etc. But to carry that hatred over hundreds of years? Mayhap that is wrong. I am an African-American. . . a lot of wrongs have been committed against my community. But I just can't hate "White" people simply because of stuff that happened decades ago. . or because some hate me and mine nowadays. What is the point to hating people who don't hate me?

Can you explain that?

[Alexandrubaschet08]

That is shit propaganda all russian complain about theyr money. Even my country is more rich then Russia.

[RolandCuthbert]

And I never said Russia was rich. Obviously, Russians should be reaping the benefits of a free and open society. If that ever happened, they would have a robust economy. But the elites there seem to believe the only way to have a society is to have one where people are strictly controlled. It is going to take a lot to change that

Americans should be able to empathize. The biggest war we ever fought was with ourselves to change our society.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

I think USA show to much merci for Russia. In my opinion from my nation Russia should be brake apart.

[RolandCuthbert]

Russians would never agree to that. They are a very proud people. I just disagree with their government.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

They have no reson to be proud. They had alwase been ruled by dictators and they had never been a democraty.
They are the same, exactly the same as nazy, but the nazy had face justice, Russia never face justice, they are runing away from it.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think the pride comes from their government past or present. It comes from their language, their history and their culture.

If you have had exposure to the negative aspects of Russian culture, then I understand where you are coming from.

But if you expect for Russians to abandon their culture, I will advise you, that will not happen.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Theyr history is a history of crimes, persecutions, oligarh, starvation, lack of reform and poor progres in anything else then army.
I don't give a S.. about theyr culture.
Ther is no good thing about theyr culture.
Even theyr Cyrillic alphabet had been invented by Bulgarians.
Russia invade and destroy the future of more then 200 countrys/nations who whas nativly in thous regions.
Russia is, had been and will alwase be an empire of evilnes.
The best for the world will be that Russia to be brake apart and lose the right to own army, same like Germany and pay for theyr crimes from ALL THEYR HISTORY.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, what you propose isn't rational. Russia won't be broken up. They may become a pariah state for a while until they have another restructuring of government.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Russia will create to much stres for many nations because its size, Russia will die soon.

[bean2k21]

The point of the sanctions isn't just to punish oligarchs. It's to starve the Russian people to the point that they realize they are the ones responsible for having a leader that behaves this way. So, if you don't support the sanctions, then you don't support democracy and you're a hypocrite just like all the other libtards.

[RolandCuthbert]

And you are nothing but a genocidal psychopath. A Russian person having an issue buying some new boots is equivalent to actual Ukrainian starving to death, being bombed in hospitals, schools, and shelters.

Get that nonsense out of here.

[bean2k21]

No, Putin is a genocidal psychopath. And if you support him, then you are too. See, you're a hypocrite.

[RolandCuthbert]

Weird. I have done nothing but post support for Ukraine. You seem to be confused. Trumpturds call Ukraine the "woke country". And Russia the "conservative" country.

You might want to look around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdC7udb1haI

[JustiReno]

Because it’s the American 🇺🇸 way
people will make up their minds
with the information they have
maybe send money or a letter to their senator
but who knows the truth?
the same government that gave us gulf of Tonkin and spilled Americans boys lives in the jungles of Vietnam and the desserts of Iraq over lies lies lies

riddle: what’s the truth behind the Loch Ness monster

…he fucked goats

[RolandCuthbert]

What does that have to do with talking with folks to get an understanding of what their view is? My friend says there are Ukrainian people he knows in Chicago. Folks are boycotting their restaurant because they think they are Russians.

The thing that is incredible about ignorant people is, they beat you up. . . with everything they don't know about you.

[JustiReno]

I thought you asked why people harass Russians.. do you have to ask yourself how normal people can be swept up in emotional and often violent fervor targeting a specific group? It has happened throughout history. Tulsa, Pogroms and the like.

There is a Jewish joke that goes something like a young girl is killed and the towns Jewish people gather in the synagogue undoubtedly worried that there will soon be another pigeon, suddenly the rabbi bursts through the doors screaming, “good news! The girl is Jewish!”

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh, well, I guess we can agree on that. It is totally unreasonable.

But something we need to deal with.

[JustiReno]

they could use Jesus I heard the Coptic church got nominated for the Nobel peace prize in 2018 odd to nominate 20m people

[RealMarek]

A elites want this war but are unwilling to directly intervene. As a result, they are taking extreme economic measures that will financially harm most Americans and ordinary Russian citizens. They must whip these people into an anti-Russian frenzy such that people will not question policies that hurt ordinary Russians and their own families. However, I doubt it will work. I suspect that the greatest anti-Russian intensity is found among the managerial class that is most supportive of the elite.

[RolandCuthbert]

And this is the extreme opposite view. The only choice we have is to enact sanctions. Because it is only ordinary Russians who can change the course their government is on. We are not killing Russian citizens. But right now, the Russian military is killing Ukrainian citizens. And in your sociopathic understanding of the world, I get it. . . it doesn't matter to you.

But to compare acts of genocide, homelessness, starvation, and people who have lost everything with Russians paying more money for food and clothing is symptomatic of a pathological condition.

But going back to my original point, I can still disagree with your views without hating folks who are Russian. I can still have Russian friends and loved ones.

[ragooo8]

So much for Obama's post racial society. The same protections need to be put in place to protect Russian Americans as was put in place to protect Muslims after 9/11. Russian are being targeted because of their ethnicity, country of birth and religion. Russiaphobia needs to stop but with the president spouting Russiaphobic hate thats impossible.

[RolandCuthbert]

@ragooo8 I just forgot to let you know. I am done corresponding with you. You don't have any rational point. And it is senseless to keep talking to a genocidal psychopath.

I mean it is kind of hard to talk to people about death, destruction, etc. when they have little regard for another person's humanity.

I get it.

[ragooo8]

Got it. Russia bombing civilians bad, America bombing civilians for 20 years good.

[DarkWinterNights]

I saw an article from Reuters yesterday that claimed that:” Facebook & Instagram will temporarily allow calls of violence against Russians”
Not Putin, not the Russian Government, “Russians”. And as soon as you try to be the voice of reason people call you a Putin Apologist. Putin is a horrible person, but maybe more blind hatred against people who don’t have any say in the matter or may even not even live in Russia is the last thing this world needs right now.

[RolandCuthbert]

It said that facebook and instagram will temporarily allow for calls of violence against Russian soldiers over the Ukraine war. Not Russian citizens.

Stop lying.

www.theguardian.com/.../facebook-and-instagram-let-users-call-for-death-to-russian-soldiers-over-ukraine

Facebook and Instagram users in some countries will be allowed to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, after parent company Meta made a temporary change to its hate speech policy.

The company is also temporarily allowing some posts that call for death to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, and his Belarusian counterpart, Alexander Lukashenko, in countries including Russia, Ukraine and Poland, according to internal emails to its content moderators.

[DarkWinterNights]

Hm, well I guess that’s why you don’t just read headlines. But I suppose they phrase them this way in purpose.

twitter.com/.../1502036658979495940

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't understand trolls like you with no honor, no dignity, and the ability to lie with every single sentence. You are truly a disciple of Lenin, Stalin and now Putin.

The link in the tweet leads to the article stating what the policy is.

And I quote;

"Facebook allows war posts urging violence against Russian invaders"

No lie can change that fact or the truth.

[DarkWinterNights]

I wasn’t trolling. I was agreeing with your whole post. I don’t have Twitter, the tweet was screen-capped and shared around. I made some incorrect assumptions and didn’t do my due diligence. I didn’t post here to have an argument with you. You don’t have to trash my character, just show me where I was wrong.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well let me apologize then. This is an emotional issue for me, as I have friends on both sides of this conflict. And I keep running into folks who either don't do their research or beat others over the head with their ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Same thing they did to Asians. Same thing they do to Blacks in all countries. Same thing America does too Native Americans. Native Aussies too. Most people are trash. A few people push the world along. And I don't mean that in a gloomy way. People just dont know any better because they were never taught it. It isn't their fault. They dont know any better.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, this shit has to stop. I don't know how. But after speaking with my friend, I decided to start talking about it everywhere.

[Anonymous]

I live in the US and ALL people who I know do not blame any of this on the Russian people. I certainly hope these kooks who are taking it out on Russian people living in the US are in the small minority. I wouldn't think of blaming them in any way. I would imagine even the Russian people IN Russia don't buy into this aggression on Ukraine. So yeah, wherever this is happening in the US, it needs to STOP.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, in my neck of the woods this was already happening last year. We went to Dallas and my friend was putting up with all kinds of nonsense. We would talk about it as length. Now, it is just out of control. Folks really have a hard time separating Putin, the Russian government, military, etc. from Russian people, Russian history and Russian culture.

And yes, I don't know a single Russia person, both here and abroad who supports this war.

[Opinion Owner]

Man that is just sad that this is happening. Sorry to hear of the discrimination.

[Waldoe]

it takes 'Time and Effort' to know another person, People are Lazy... so they just Jump to a conclusion without any evidence... and we all agree that is wrong

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh, I know. And I think it is beyond being lazy. People defend this behavior as though their very lives depend upon it. It is as if they learned how to get to know people personally, it destroys their entire worldview. Thank you for that post.

[Friendlybro79]

This is so well thought out. I think ignorance plays a huge part in many of your concerns. How can ignorance stops is a good question. If we can't agree to disagree at times (without violence), or agree on factual news vs opinions or straight out fake news, I don't know how or when we come out of this bs.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, in this thread while I am trying to defend Russian people, but I keep running into trolls parroting Putin's narrative.

I don't know if it is on purpose or what.

Well, thank you for posting. All I can do is hope that folks don't jump to conclusions about Russian folks, just because we have some insane trolls at GaG.

[Friendlybro79]

I think there could be a portion of people here on gag that are just trolls with no real opinion on the matter. Just here to upset people. Plenty of Americans understand the Russian people aren't to blame for this. Their leader is.

[RolandCuthbert]

It seems like it.

I have to remember to keep that in mind. Some folks just like to stir the pot.

[Friendlybro79]

I totally understand what you mean and we all need to remind ourselves of these like this regarding other topics too. It's hard not to feel these ways with how the media portrays things plus the fact terrible things are happening around the world.

[Mossberg500]

Because Americans have been feeding off Jew propaganda for over a century (at least.) But worry not, the pendulum is quietly swinging back. Even the Trumpanzees will become us (or die.) Lemmings can't fight back when they still think the Dems and Repubs are against each other.

[RolandCuthbert]

Why do we have so many Jew haters at GaG?

Maybe stop watching youtube so much dude.

[Mossberg500]

Because Jesus Christ named them as the children of Satan.

Because of the info I recently showed you about the reach Zionist-Jews have, due to their control over the Central banking cartel.

Because people like myself are not afraid of you hook-nosed bastards destroying our white countries with the extremely evil intention of eventual white genocide through miscegenation (That's race-mxiing, for the dumb people on here.)

We're onto you Roland, and there's not you can do about it. Your Jews-News recently put PF on national media after we've been active for over 4 years, because Joo Rogan himself attempted to slander us, then CNN and MSNBC had no choice but to put us on and mock us, and slander us too.

I found it amusing; Amusing in the sense that you think you can challenge a group of men who's convictions run so deep we are willing to die for our people, and call out the Global tyrant Pariahs of "Multi-Culti-Globo-Homo." All the "MSM" did was give us free press for National recruitment.

Because as studies show, most white people do not want to live in a "Multi-Cultural" world. These nations belong to us, and were given away by the Zionist-Jews, we didn't get to vote on this did we? No I don't recall that happening.

[Mossberg500]

You only wish this was a "GaG" issue. GaG is a traditionally left-wing hub. You should be worried. I came here to tell the truth to my people, primarily, whilst also engaging in some of the typical Q&A here, as not to rock the boat, nor to be a troll. But when opportunity presents, you are damn right I will slander the primary enemies of my people any chance I get. G'day.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, your standard for not being a liberal is hating Jews.

That is just how insane you are.

[Mossberg500]

What's "Liberal" The modern Liberal is nothing like the version from the 70s. Same as the modern "cuckservative" By today's standard's JFK would be a Republican.

But, of course, I see what you're doing and it ain't going to work. This Jew, thinks he can steer me back into the Uni-Party Soap Opera. "Pick (((One of our sides))) stupid American! We call it #ThirdPosition in our circle for a reason. And that doesn't mean the Green party or even the Libertarian, although this is probably what we'd be closest too.

But no, besides "hating Zionist Jews" aka "Jewish Supremacists" (not the run of the mill average Israeli.) The ones who run the world through international finance, and all the luxuries (propaganda) that go with it. I oppose Multi-Culturalism in White Nation states. And, seeing as how we already self-segregate, as the natural order takes hold, people want to be with their own kind (generally speaking.) I can link you a scientific study that shows this, or you can just look up what's known as the "dot map."

But I digress, I do not think it unfeasible to peacefully (or as peaceably as is possible) separate along ethnic lines. We at PF, would even offer Black Americans and some Latino Americans, assuming their generations go back at least a few decades, citizenship in a part of the United States. And quite possibly even a mixed section for those that prefer a mush-mosh of uncultured muttery.

Offer me something thought-provoking or kindly sthu. I presume this is some ploy to get me banned? I got 3 letters for ya V-P-N.

Here's a "Gotcha" for you. How come there can be "White Supremacists" as my org is constantly smeared as being... but not "Jewish Supremacists?" That oughta be a quandary, bet I won't get an answer, and if I do it won't make much sense. Take your time. Maybe try a whole short-paragraph this time.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, I told you I didn't hate Jews. I refuse to hate Jews. I refuse to spread conspiracy theories about Jews.

And you called me a liberal..

That's how completely fucked your brain is. And also why people are running screaming from your belief system.

It is because you are batshit insane. And anyone who tolerates such talk, is also batshit insane.

[Mossberg500]

If it's a "Conspiracy theory" to you then you are one of them, or you live with your head in the sand, and are basically saying your mad at me that I don't.

You're mad cause I don't support White Genocide?

You're mad cause I spread "truth" that they themselves admit in their own writings, in the Talmud, and the power they hold in major corporations including government, media, hollywood, and academia, and BANKING?

I've proven most of this to you before in another thread, I cannot help that you live with your head in the sand, bu I will not sit idly by why my people are displaced from their own lands. How is that difficult to understand? It's only a "conspiracy" because you don't research as I have researched for 10 years, but it only takes 5 mins or less to find some nasty Jewish Supremacy articles written by (((They))) themselves.

"Truth sounds like hate to people who hate truth."

[Mossberg500]

By the way people are not running from us, on the contrary, our numbers have doubled in just a year. We're expecting 10 times that now that the MSM was forced cover PF. Last I heard they've had more applications than they can even get to in a timely manner in order to properly vet the applicants.

Running from us? You're being purposefly obtuse. YOu just said in your first response "Why are so many jew haters on GaG." Bro we're prominent in 47 States. Look at our channel on Bitchute. Look at the old videos and look how many march with PF now..

I recently saw an article from a left wing news outlet "Why are so many women joining the 'alt-right' as they call us?" I can answer the question, because those women are smart enough to stand behind their men instead of multi-culti, globo-homo crime ridden cities. THANKS DIVERSITY. Or should I say "Fake Diversity." Real diversity requires the separation of cultures and people's. That's not "Hate." Because of the "Jim Crow" era, "segregation got a bad rep." But it won't be like that. Blacks and Hispanics who have been in America for along time will have as much power and freedom to do as they please with their piece of the pie. The Jews will be kicked out (again) as they have over 109 times in history.

[Anonymous]

You're a fool if you think this is an American thing. This is human nature, nothing more and nothing less. The same behavior exists everywhere in the word. Always has.

The real question here is why some groups of people try to make their own country seem worse than others.

[RolandCuthbert]

No, it is not a human nature. We are taught this. We are taught the nonsense of race. We are taught the nonsense of group responsibility, group guilt, group punishment.

And it is all nothing but a bunch of lies.

It is time to own this and stop pretending we are helpless to change our own thinking. That's nonsense,

[Opinion Owner]

Wherever you believe the notion of race comes from, the fact is that it exists literally everywhere in the world where different races coexist. It's not just an American phenomenon, as you suggest.

And the fact that some people think America is the only place it happens and feel the need to drag their own country down is absurd.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, the statement does not make any sense. If you actually refuse to read the scientific proof that destroys any mythology about race, then I cannot do anything for you.

And to coexist with anyone, you must figure out how to accept the beliefs they have about themselves. If a person thinks they are Ukrainian and you keep insisting they are apart of the "Russian race", then you won't get to know them or be able to co-exist with them.

[Opinion Owner]

Dude, racism exists everywhere where different peoples and cultures coexist. That is a well studied and well documented fact. That includes Australia, Brazil, China, South Africa, England, Sweden, Germany, and yes, the US AND Russia.

It's sad, but it is absolutely human nature. We can and should teach people not to be racist. But to pretend the US is somehow worse that everywhere else in the world is idiotic, to borrow your term.

[RolandCuthbert]

No dude, racism is not everywhere. According to the batshit insane theory of race, Ukrainians and Russians are apart of the same race. Even as Putin is committing genocide against Ukrainian people.

I mean, the statement is kind of. . . well. . . crazy.

Race exists. . . racism is everywhere. . . Russians/Ukrainians are racist against each other, while being apart of the same race.

What more do I have to say? By the way I am not saying you are sane. Just posting for whomever else is reading along. Because that is not even attempting to be logical.

[Opinion Owner]

Educate yourself... dude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia

[RolandCuthbert]

Educate myself. Haha! Dude sends a wikipedia link and calls that education.

Son, I have been to Russia, twice.

What does ethnic issues in Russia have to do with your batshit obsession with the concept of race. Or do you not know what race mythology says?

The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

[strateguy632]

your misuse of a platform to make accusations is disgusting if trolling means "dont write mean stuff" then accusing people "idiotic and haters" is the worst trolling. you would only do it if you had those same issues.