Paying for the first date, feminism, and being a gentleman

[alonzoslade]

First of all, I am tired of being told that men should be gentleman. Feminists don't believe in the term "gentleman" because it defines male masculinity.

There is definitely a societal expectation on men to be a gentleman. Feminist will argue that being a gentle man means being courteous. Well, my masculinity should not be defined by anything. My masculinity is what I say it is, even if it does not involve me being courteous.

That is the equivalent of the vast majority of men expecting women to cook for them because it is a feminine thing to do. That would be sexist.

Men are still mostly expected to pay for the first date and onward in the United States. Women keep telling me that this is a sign of courteousy, NO THE FU#$ IT IS NOT. That ideology comes from a sexist era were women couldn't pay for the first date. If my masculinity is different for not paying for the first date then it is SEXIST. My wallet should not define my masculinity.

If women are suppose to be chivalrous as well then with that logic we should split the bill because women should be chivalrous as well. If I am expected to hold doors open for women then women should do it for me to, BUT THEY FU$%ING DON'T, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EXPECTED TO BY SOCIETY.

Some men see chivalry as a sign of respect

Then Logically she should also respect me and be chivalrous toward me as well, but the thing is, SOCIETY DOESN'T EXPECT THEM TO BE.

Feminism and dating expectations don't mix

Women will argue that feminism isn't about dating. However, the definition of feminism is "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes", according to webster's dictionary.

I am so tired of women attempting to tell me what I should and should not be. SHUT THE FU$% UP. I am what I say I am.

[LightsOff]

"Feminism and dating expectations don't mix"
I think you've got it kind of backwards, dude. Most of the gals who are traditional like this tend to not be feminists at all.
I'm a feminist, and I don't think being a gentleman has anything to do with masculinity, nor anything to do with paying on dates etc. I think it's about treating people well and being kind. Just as being a lady or lady-like is seen as being someone with manners, someone who's kind and helpful.
I'm a feminist and I would gladly split the bill, or pay for the whole thing if I feel like it. I'm a feminist and I'll happily hold the door for everyone and anyone. I would happily drive a guy places if I had a car and a license. I'm a feminist, and the only things I expect from men is the same kind of respect and kindness that I'm giving them already.
Feminism is for the abandonment of gender roles and stereotypes, meaning that guys shouldn't be the ones to always have to pay and girls shouldn't be the ones to always have to cook/clean etc. I have never met a feminist who claimed that she wants to get rid of gender roles, while in the same breath claiming that men should always pay for her shit. That's not really how it works.

[AleDeEurope]

If I go out on a date with a girl and she doesn't wanna split the bill, I will call the waiter/waitress and tell him/her to put what I consumed in a separate bill and I pay for that, and then the girl pays what she consumed.
I was a firm believer of "the guy pays on the first date" but after all the shitty women I've seen, I don't wanna risk spending my money on a girl that may not call me back after the first date, may cheat on me, may keep dating me for my money... I'm not gonna be the stupid guy that gets used by them.
If they want equality, which I support 100%, they will have to be equal in every single aspect of life, no exceptions.
It feels like most women that want equality don't want it when inequality favors them.

[SweetLily89]

You sound a little upset lol

I get what your saying, but keep in mind that the gender role of a "real man" isn't just something that "all women" believe in. This all goes down to preference and how we're raised. There are some men that like the role of a "proper gentlemen" and like to pay for dates and open doors. I don't appreciate you generalizing women or men for that matter. This is coming from someone who's asked men out, holds the door when I get the chance and has offered to pay or go dutch countless times first date and beyond, and only a few times did I actually pay anything for the date because, the man insisted that he pay (those men were traditionalists).

Some woman and men like traditional roles, and other's want to break them and either way it's fine. I support equality for both genders, it shouldn't be any more of a big deal for a man to be a stay at home dad, cooking and cleaning while the wife is the bread winner and paying bills than it is for the traditional male "bringing home the bacon" role. Although, you are ranting about gender roles "women" expect of you, I do believe the vast majority of men would cringe at the idea of being a stay at home dad/ househusband because, it's the "woman's job", while their women make the money. People should be able to do what makes them happy. For every person that tries to fit the mold that society paints for us, there is another that breaks it. There are plenty of modern women out there that are independent and don't expect anyone to take care of them or pay their way and there are plenty of men that don't mind taking a step back and letting the woman take the lead. Generalizing a whole gender does nothing, but insult and piss people off.

Also, being courteous isn't just about being polite and respectful toward women, it's about being respectful and showing some manners towards others in general. Call me crazy, but most people male or female, don't like assholes.. I've never heard of courtesy being a negative quality in anyone.

[9mfeo]

I congratulate you on defining yourself on your own terms. Many people are not able to do this. Good on you!

I personally believe that whoever does the asking should do the paying. In a committed relationship, it's a good idea for one person to treat one day and the other some other time (or split the bill or whatever you feel comfortable with). There is a caveat to this - if one partner makes significantly less money than the other (like a quarter or less than the other person's salary) they should contribute what they can but not be expected to pay for things equally.

One last thing: I would caution you not to fall too far into bitterness with regards to social equity because it's very hard to reclaim a more positive view after that point.

[alonzoslade]

the real question is do you ask to take him out an equal amount?

[9mfeo]

As I am currently single, it is impossible. However, my last boyfriend and I used to fight over the bill. He wouldn't LET me pay most of the time, despite my wanting to do so.

[Bonnie12I27I12]

you are not what you say. you are what you do. i can say that im selena gomez but am i really her? no. i do think that bills should be split. you shouldn't just blow money on someone you hardly know. it can also make it difficult if you're just dating around for fun. i open doors for people and its not weird. i hold them open for both men and women. its not about being a "gentleman" its about being a kind and respectful human being.

[alonzoslade]

yet many women still expect men to pay for the first date

[Bonnie12I27I12]

i dont expect that. i can only speak for myself not other women. we all have different expectations

[awesome_possum]

I didn't expect the guy I'm dating to pay for the first date-I was the one the one who asked HIM out. I protested, but he insisted and I thanked him. Second date we went dutch, third date he paid for the movie and I bought dinner. It's all about reciprocation.

[Dtegesd123]

honestly I think , we ever invites the other, they could pay. But if the female invites, I'll pay for half. Like she can pay for dinner and I'll pay for movies and desert

[Maverickj]

Nice take. Chivalry needs to die, anyway. It's a sexist tradition that belongs in the 1950's. Women can open their own doors, pull up their own chairs, and pay for their own stuff.

[9mfeo]

(chivalry was an honour code for knights in the Middle Ages. There is one rule about helping women, children and the infirm and the rest are rules of honourable combat).