Should Obama be impeached?

[gotc147]

Impeachment can only happen when a political figure has broken the law, there is much buzz around Obama's health care bill getting passed was unconstitutional and as Americans we all know that the constitution is what everything answers to.

Under the tenth amendment the states are not required to follow any non-constitutional legislation passed by the federal government and I've heard rumor that a number of states have announced they will use this to their advantage. The tenth amendment in my interpretation says the buck stops with the people, if a local community chooses not to follow a state or federal law, they are not required to (considering the proper procedure is followed) unless it is protected by the constitution.

I see two aspects of the law that could be considered unconstitutional, the first is the fact that it requires the people to buy something out of their own pocket from a private company (which was my main gripe when my oh-so-lovely home state of Massachusetts passed it's own state-run forced health care bill).

The second part is how the bill itself was passed. Reconciliation before now has been used for budget matters only, not for a huge legislation such as this.

This begs the question, if brought to court and ruled to have broken the constitution either by the clause requiring people to purchase something from a private company or by his method of getting it passed (or both), should Obama be impeached? And what about the senators who voted yes?

For the record I consider myself an independent, I am by no means either liberal or conservative as my political views come from both sides (A good example is I hate big government, but I also hate big corporation).

Yes, he should be impeached.

No, he should not be impeached.

Updates

+1 y

Ok people, please read the question very carefully (especially the 5th paragraph). I'm asking if the proper procedure is followed should he be impeached, I'm not asking anything about Bush or Iraq or the federal debt or the economy or any of that.

[Anonymous]

To the first person who commented, I read this earlier today:

You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy.

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.

You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.

You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq .

You didn't get mad when you saw the Abu Grahib photos.

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.

You didn't get mad when the national debt doubled under the previous President from $5.674 trillion to $10.024 trillion.

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans and the President lied about it.

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden in Tora Bora.

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city drown!

You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.

You finally got mad when.. when... wait for it...

When the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.

Yes! Illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all ok with you, but helping other Americans... well that makes me mad!

[somethingrandom]

+1

[secondbestkiller]

I freaking love this, haha. +1

[armyant]

Actually tons of people got mad about all of that sh*t that you listed.

[Delahatesyou]

Obama voted for the pat act.

You don't get mad when your pres spends 2 trillion on just two useless bills

You don't get mad with 12 trillion dollars from the fed reserve "disappears"

National debt? 13 trillion and counting (thanx Obama :P)

Talk about deficits, lol, 1.4 trillion last year.

Obama is the most corrupt socialist who at the same time is in the pockets of both wallstreet and the Unions.

Change, right? Last time I checked America was the land of opportunity not a babysitting nation.

[sa230e]

The patriot act was passed in 2001. Obama began serving as a senator in 2005. If you're calling Obama a socialist you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. He can't be both in the pocket of wall street and a socialist at the same time.

[papasmurf]

Dela let me guess, you were an European immigrant who worked his way out of his famished country with ideas of freedom and opportunity in America only to find yourself in a coal mine for your entire life along with your children and grandchildren? or maybe a slave who worked for little pay, yet still saved his little amount of money to buy freedom for himself and his country? No you're a white boy who has been born into countless opp (youre going to argue this but compare yourself)

[papasmurf]

To be clear I give you my full respect for what you do for this country..i think you have the right to say what you want above anyone like me, all I am saying is its hard to reach such a simple answer to everyone who thinks it black or white. anyways beyond all this political bullsh*t, thank you

[gotc147]

I am mad with the patriot act, though I was 13 years old when it got passed so forgive me if I wasn't too concerned about it at the time. Most of Bush's moves while he was in office were terrible but I didn't really get a hold of what it meant for me until about 3-4 years ago.

[Littletad]

Lmao, oh please. Blame Bush? When has Obama ever admitted to anything he's done wrong? Nothing. The debt increased more than Bush's entire presidency, within just one year in office. A stimulus bill that didn't do sh*t. Iraq did pose a threat. Ever heard what they did to Kuwait? Read up, wise up, and learn. You hold some good arguments, but for the most part, your just putting up a blame tag.

And one thing, did we ever get attacked again after 911? Didn't think so.

[gotc147]

@Littletad: I cannot agree that Bush invaded Iraq honestly thinking that it posed a threat to us, everything was just fell in place too conveniently (Saddam tried to kill his father, we had intelligence that said Iraq had WMDs, we invade Iraq and catch/kill Saddam, suddenly we found out our intelligence is faulty and then suddenly we invaded Iraq in the first place to free their people, um, yeah).

Though Bush was not 100% to blame for our economic crisis, he just pushed all the dominos over.

[DanielSan]

We let a city drown? floods have happened there since prehistorict times...maybe those niggas should evolve and move?

Clinto dropped the ball on osama and we did get mad...Wiretapping international calls to suspected terrorists, waterboarding TERRORISTs isn't torture and it protects american lives by giving us info,That covert agent wasn't even active nor did she ever have real covert status, about abu grahib..well that's war..their terrorists....debt under obama has trippled in one year took bush

[DanielSan]

Took bush 8 years to do that...anyways I could go on but your an ignorant girl whatver

[Delahatesyou]

Sa230e: Excuse me, he voted to REINSTATE the patriot act https://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/01/clinton-slams-o/

papasmurf: So this is about race now? Btw I'm multi racial, though since I look white I guess I have to feel guilty and apologize all the time for all the slaves I owned right? Or indian tribes I killed off. BS ahole, I have all the opportunities any other american has and I'm making good use of them..... Ok thanks for ur appreciation.

Littletad: yep you are exactly right.

[Friends_Alibis92]

I would get into all the reasons I hate him and how he's throwing our country into disarray and destroying it, but I'm gonna keep it simple... Yes he needs to be thrown out of the white house and more importantly, the country.

[Littletad]

I think he's a horrible president, especially in this time were in. They seem to be a government who feels their way is best, and anyone who opposes is "wrong". There is no bipartisan, they won't listen or provide any transparency even for the general public. We never had any input on the health care reform topics, just a 2,000 page bill rammed into congress for a vote.

No one should be forced to buy health care reform, and it should be done with a bipartisan agreement to satisfy at least both sides somewhat. Do I need to mention we don't even have the money for this? All he has done is given the government, his gov., more power. That's all. Making us more of a ward of the government, than freedom citizens. Thank God for the Tea Parties and people willing to stand up and oppose them. It's not racism, it's not sedition; it's alarming concern for the path this president has taken us. He's not a socialist either, he's a radical progressive.

With that being said, despite it all, no he cannot be impeached. Since they made the healthcare bill into law, they can pretty much get away with it. But what can be done, is the lawmakers can be voted out this November. Only then can we limit his power.

[gotc147]

Seems to me republicans should be in office during times like this and when times are good the democrates should be there (speaking as generally as possible).

The problem with this coming November is people are going to calm down about the healhtcare bill and then might vote in more supproting drones.

I really need to get involved with this tea party thing, maybe that group can acctually be the first in history to get the government under control without being called terrorists.

[Littletad]

The Tear Parties would not be the first. It's happened many times before in hour history. Quite amazing it's happening again, in this day and age.

[sa230e]

Obama alone cannot pass anything and the ramifications of the healthcare bill are not to be laid entirely at his feet. If the mandate is unconstitutional then the appropriate response would be to repeal the bill. The Congress was as much involved as anybody in the use of reconciliation to pass it. Whatever you think about reconciliation the bill was still voted for by a majority of the people's representatives in both houses and there's nothing undemocratic about that. Reconciliation was a necessary because the republicans would have filibustered it indefinitely otherwise. Is it not undemocratic to require legislation to get 60 votes pass in the senate?

The constitution limits impeachment "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". I think it's a big stretch to say that the passage of a bill meets that standard. Look I'm not a huge fan of him either but passing a wimpy, watered-down piece of healthcare legislation is not a good reason to overthrow an administration.

[gotc147]

Major legislations are supposed to require 60 votes, reconciliation is for budget matters only or at least it was until now. You're right that the republicans would've killed it through a filibuster but that's what is supposed to happen, that's why Scott Brown was voted in (by a considerable margin btw), to be that one killer vote.

The passage of the bill seems unconstitutional to me and breaking the constitution is grounds for impeachment if the supreme court deems it has been done.

[sa230e]

No that was amended in an 1892 supreme court case. A bill needs only a simple majority to pass the senate under current rules. The magic 60 votes that the media loves to blather about is only a formality and not a requirement. And no it's not what's supposed to happen. That would amount to the minority blocking the will of the majority which is by definition undemocratic.

Scott Brown was elected because his challenger was arrogant and ran a p*ss poor campaign.

[gotc147]

I should've known better than to go to bat for a conservitive viewpoint with a Canadian.

Which ammendment are you talking about? I don't recall learning about this in history class. Even the highly liberal media made the point about reconciliation being used only for budget matters up until this point.

[sa230e]

Er that case only applies to changing senate procedure. My bad. Nonetheless a bill in the senate only requires a simple majority (51 votes). If there is a tie the Vice President casts the tie-breaking vote. It does require a 3/5 majority (60 votes) though to overcome a filibuster though so threat of a filibuster can effectively kill a bill. Look I'm not a huge fan of the bill or the mandate either. But impeachment would be a gross overreaction is what I'm saying.

[gotc147]

The bill is just the first step in the government taking control of everything and so to prevent more government takeover wouldn't impeachment be a good step?

Think of it like what happened on 9/11, we should've dropped a small nuke on Afganistan and then said to the world "Anybody else want to play?"

[sa230e]

No. This bill is exactly the opposite. It gives loads of new business to the private insurance companies. I'm from Canada where we actually have single payer health insurance run by the government. You don't see the hammer and sickle flying from the Peace Tower or military parades in Ottawa do you?

And we should have nuked Afghanistan? Tell me you aren't serious. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people would be dead and you wonder why there's nuts like Bin Laden who hate you?

[sa230e]

https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/mar/19/republican-party-florida/florida-republican-party-claims-democratic-health-/

[gotc147]

Your system of healthcare in Canada is far different from what we just got handed here in America. Your healthcare isn't private at all, it's all government run and you pay out the ass for it through taxes.

Of the developed nations, America is the least taxed because we have mostly private buisnesses instead of government run everything. But you'll never see to reason, just like all the other Canadians I've met you're brainwashed like crazy. I'm sure you think guns are bad.

[sa230e]

Yes it is. Our doctors are private. It's health INSURANCE that's private here. And we get taxed out the ass? As opposed to paying out the ass for outrageous insurance premiums? On average Canadians only pay 5 percent more of our incomes in taxes than Americans and we get so much more.

But yes, I must be brainwashed. Somehow even though I've done my own research and formed my own opinions the "evil liberal media" must have got me. Everyone one is brainwashed but you. Sounds reasonable.

[sa230e]

Oops typo. Our doctors are private. Our health insurance is run by the government.

And by the way I'm done with you. I've done nothing but attempt reasonable debate with you and your comeback is that I'm brainwashed. If you want to be a philistine (look it up) then you're free to do so but I'm done wasting time with you.

[papasmurf]

Obama under the Constitution and what you are referring to yes defiantly could be impeached, should he be? well it doesn't matter because everyone has their loud opinion that no one else really listens to, so they keep arguing until a bunch of them group together. In our country we have only 2 options to choose from (2 party system)...the same goes for bush, with getting Congress to go to war without proof, As well as granting him unconstitutional presidential powers in the Bush doctrine and Johnson in Tonkin Bay. Its a democracy, and freedoms not many others recieve love this country for that or we are going down divided.

[mike5150]

Looking over this page this is exactly why I never talk politics over the internet. All the republicans/democrats just thumb up the answers that best suites there party and thumb down the one that best suites the other. I'm neither Republican or Democrat and the way I see this issue is really what would be the point? Obama gets impeeched then what Joe Biden? And don't tell me Mcain or Pailin would be any better either way the 2008 election went down this country was going to lose. The entire senate The House and the presidential administrations have been a cluster **** the last 10 years on both ends democrat and republicans. It has gotten to a point where I think we need to just start over completely.

[gotc147]

I'dve taken McCain over Obama any day, lesser of two evils. It is clear our system is broken, too much loyalty to a particular faction, even if one doesn't agree with some things that faction wants to push for.

The ENTIRE government should be torn down, all politicians removed from power, the process of election be stripped to popular vote only (no more of this electoral bullsh*t) and we get all new people.

But that'll never happen.

[Professor_Zoom]

If Obama is impeached, then Bush and Cheney will also need to be arrested and serve time in prison. But tell me this, we all know the health insurance companies are screwed up. We do know that there are people out there, with no insurance, who do not go to the doctor when they should, because they are worried about the bills that will come after that. What do we do about the health insurance companies and the uninsured? I have an idea but I just want to see if anyone is on the same page.

[gotc147]

I agree something should be done about the insurance companies and their deceptive practices, but the bill did nothing to limit how much they can charge a person for insurance. It is morally wrong to do it, but they are in it to make money so they won't give coverage to people who will cost them more than what their clients monthly premiums will bring in.

[gotc147]

Say you drive a taxi for a living and you pick up a person who asked you to drive them accross the country, would you do it?

Unless you're an idiot no you wouldn't because any profit you made off the ride would be spent on gas and accomidations for the ride back. The customer will be p*ssed off, but you will still be in the black and not the red.

Is it right? No, definitly not, but it's the nature of buisness.

[Professor_Zoom]

Which is why the health insurance companies should be non profit businesses. It is morally wrong for the insurance companies to do what they do, but that's business and sometimes what's morally wrong is what's in the best interest of the company. That's why they shouldn't be in the business to make money because it means they have to screw people over.

[gotc147]

Whether or not the insurance companies are making money is irrelevent, the healthcare has to be paid for from somewhere.

Your train of thought can be applied to any industry. An airline cancels a flight because 1 of the 4 engines isn't working, the plane can still fly on 3 engines but they cancel it anyway causing people to miss weddings and funerals and meetings and whatnot, the people get screwed there too.

[Professor_Zoom]

Okay, I'm not getting the analogy and I don't see how my train of thought can be applied to a plane engine breaking down and people missing their flight for safety reasons.

[gotc147]

You're right, bad example.

But whether or not health insurance companies are private or non-profit the money has to come from somewhere. If they're private it comes out of the client's pocket, if they're non-profit it comes from taxes (high taxes). Don't confuse so-called "universal healthcare" as free healthcare, one way or another you pay for it and frankly I don't want the government to be involved in it in any way.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely. He has turned this country socialist. Enjoy your first amendment right while you have it. I'm sure I'll get an email from the Pentagon about this post, considering you can't speak out against Obama or any of his policies.

OBAMA= One Big Ass Mistake America.

[palek]

I don't suppose people will wake up before it's too late, and I'm all but certain we've passed the point of no return. Our Constitution is all but a blurred memory. Our "elected" (what a joke) Presidents are no more than figure heads with no real power of their own. I mean, how blind can people be? After all, our last President was mentally retarded! Yet he did his part to further erode our Constitutional rights under the do-good guise of 9-11 retribution. C'mon and wake up!

[palek]

I suppose any nation wherein a boorish, half-witted moron such as Rush Limpjaw could conjure an audience of more than seven or eight mentally-constipated outcasts, might as well stick its head between its legs and kiss its butt goodbye.

[papasmurf]

I ask you if you still go on about this "socialist" in my eyes your still stuck in 1960's soviet propaganda, tell me what's wrong about government providing for its people, if not what's the point. I think you're ignorant that's my first amendment I don't consider myself liberal, as neither party is doing what it should, but this is disgraceful

[gotc147]

@papasmurf: In a perfect world the government would control only basic services (paving roads, building new airports, fire and police services, etc.) as well as national security. But when it comes to the people's daily lives, the government should have no buisness, why should they decide what kind of healthcare I can have? What kind of foods I can eat? Next they'll be telling me what kind of vehicle I can drive.

[Professor_Zoom]

Gotc147, at the same time though, it is in the insurance company's best interests to not pay out claims. You may not want the government saying what kind of medical treatments you can and can not get, but insurance companies already do that. This is all one big game and one day you will see that. What this is all about is who do you want telling you what to do?

[gotc147]

Insurance companies can be brought to court or you can cease being a client of theirs in favor a company that will give you what you want. I'm well aware that all insurance companies only want to maximize their profits and the hell with everything else (they couldn't care less about their clients) but at least you can use the legal system to get them to do what they're suppoed to.

You can't do that with the government because they ARE the legal system.

[iamranga]

By the time a lawsuit has reached its conclusion you will either be dead or well again.

[gotc147]

That's because people don't use (or know how to use) their right to a quick and speedy trial, they let the insurance companies use all their stall tactics and prolong the case.

[blah52]

Does it really matter, its not like things are going to be that much greater without him. If you want things to improve we need to get rid of most of the government. They have things set up where they get us all worked up about moral issues, and while we fight they rob us blind. Things won't get better till we get power hungry greedy whores out of washington.

[gotc147]

Agreed, but we have to start somewhere don't we?

[Littletad]

Agree

[blah52]

Yeah, but they wouldn't impeach him, they put him there.

[Delahatesyou]

Violations of the constitution are not the same as laws with sanctions. It is up to the supreme court to interpret the consti. IF they say its unconsti. then great, if not "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Impeach him.

[AlanHB]

Well gee whiz, he is trying to help you guys. It would be much simpler to invalidate the legislation rather than overthrow the government if you really think it's unconstitutional.

[gotc147]

Not a comment I expected from an Austrailian. I'm well aware he's trying to help us, but all he's doing is proving how much of an idiot he is every day, his approval ratings are getting on par with Bush's and if he keeps trying to get the government to control everything the great visionary that most people thought he was will end up being a one-termer.

[AlanHB]

Obama and Hilary Clinton proposed several health care changes years ago, before he was president. This was part of the proposed changes that he had when he came in. The US Health System is flawed, he is trying to fix it. Not sure what your problem is considering the massive amount of warning and the positive effect it may carry.

[gotc147]

I never said our health system isn't flawed. But Obama in reality had no hand at all in the acctual creation of this bill, he just told Nancy Pelosi to make a healthcare bill, so she did and without reading a word of it he said "OK America, this is what's best for you!"

Yeah everybody (who can afford health insurance) gets to go to the doctor when they need to, if there will be a doctor to see and the treatment for whatever they have is there. Half BILLION dollar cut to Medicare remember.

[martyfellow]

He should be impeached because of illegal colonial wars he wages without a declaration of war, which he couldn't get.

Exactly like Bush who also should have been impeached!

[gotc147]

Oh I agree Bush should've been impeached too, I was simply too young to really have a grasp of that bumbling administration, now looking back at it I'm surprised we're in as good a shape as we are now.

But now we have Obama who seems to want to Europeanize Ameica, and he's doing a damn good job so far.

[Professor_Zoom]

"Europeanize Ameica"? How so. Even with everything he's done, America is not close to being like a European country.

[gotc147]

Europe has basically every industry controlled by the government and if you listen to Obama all keeps wanting to do is control, er, excuse me, "regulate" more and more industries.

Now he wants to "regulate" the banks, he also wants to "regulate" how our food is made, soon he'll want to "regulate" our vehicles.

[Strait_Shooter]

Impeeched? He hasn't even done half the sh*t those draft dodgers Bush and Chaney did. Including invading a foreign country for there own profiet. As for this health care bill I didn't want it but you guys are over reacting majorly.

[gotc147]

You're not understanding my question, I'm asking that if he were to be brought to court and the court ruled the law unconstitutional, should he be impeached for it.

We're also not talking about Bush, believe me, Bush was the worst president we've ever had (who has completed his term(s)) but the question isn't about him.

[Strait_Shooter]

You do know if he is impeeched the vice president will basicly just do the same exact thing?

[gotc147]

Not if he's smart, we impeach Obama maybe Biden would sit down for a minute and say "hm, maybe Obama's direction wasn't the best idea..."

Professional suicide I believe it's called?

[Strait_Shooter]

Yeah but hate to say it but if Obama does get impeeched their would be massive riots

[gotc147]

Obama keeps trying to get every industry under government control there are going to be massive riots.

[gotc147]

Wow, it took me three days to discover that typo... lol.

I meant to say: "IF Obama keeps trying to get every industry under government control there are going to be massive riots."

Sorry for any confusion.

[North]

I don't think you really understand how the government works.

[gotc147]

Then why don't you explain it to me.

[North]

The President is not going to be impeached over Congress passing an unconstitutional law. That is so far outside of how things actually work it sounds crazy.

[North]

Unless of course

"The President, Vice President, and all other civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors." Article Two of the United States Constitution Section 4

You think that somehow applies to this. (It doesn't.)

[gotc147]

Well for one what do you think he was doing with all those secret meetings with stubborn democrats to get them to change their minds?

Even giving him the benifit of the doubt about those meetings, breaking constitutional law seems like a pretty high crime to me.

[North]

Its illegal for the President to meet with members of his own party?

[gotc147]

If he's bribing them to vote a certain way yes it is.

[North]

Do you have any evidence that that happened at all or are you just making that up? Right.

[gotc147]

All I'm saying is why did Obama have to bring them in behind closed doors, not allowing anybody else in, no media, no cameras, no word of what was discussed made public with those senators? If all he was doing was legitimetly trying to talk them into voting yes, why all the secretcy?

[North]

So none. Politics happens behind closed doors.

[gotc147]

So according to you if you have no evidence of foul play none happened?

What would you do if you came accross a dead body on the sidewalk, the body is clearly an elderly person with no signs of external injuries, do you just say "oh, they must've expried mid-stride, too bad, oh well nothing unusual here"?

People who don't ask questions are forever ignorant, even when those questions yield no response knowledge is gained.

[North]

You have to have evidence to accuse someone of a crime. Yes that's what I am saying. You are accusing the President of corruption. You have no evidence that he did anything wrong, at all. But you feel like he must have.

[gotc147]

I don't claim to posess something I don't have.

But to simply ignore the circumstances is foolish, 16 months of deliberations and these Senators still either weren't sure or were opposed to it, then after a short meeting with Obama suddenly they thought it was a great idea.

It just seems fishy.

[North]

But its not enough to impeach him over. Not even close. There is no crime its just politics.

[gotc147]

I don't recall forming a faction to get him impeached. But read my question again, especially the part where I said IF he was brought to court and convicted should he be impeached. I'm asking if the supreme court were to convict him of passing an unconstitutional law should he be impeached, not should he be impeached generally.

[North]

He was elected on a platform of major reform. Of course he worked to push the legislation through, And with the current makeup of the House and Senate it was only a matter of time.

[gotc147]

Yes he was, but not at the expense of what the people want. The government answers to the people or at least it's supposed to and the vast majority of people (more than a 3/5 ratio, less than 30% of the public supported the bill) didn't want that bill to pass in the form that it did.

Maybe had they listened to the people and made a large number of major changes to the bill they'dve had more support for it.

[North]

Well the majority do think its a good enough idea to get it through. It happened. Everything that is going on is just political theater. Health care reform was going to happen.

[gotc147]

Only a simple majority of the Senators believed it was good enough to pass, very little of the public shared that thought.

Do not confuse the majority of of the elected officials with the majority of the public, there is a difference.

[North]

You can't be this obtuse for real. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen. We got it, its law. it happened. Good idea, bad idea, anyone's idea. It happened.

And anyway the president won't get impeached over it, as to that the patriot act is pretty much a laundry list of constitutional violations. Politicians argue about it and then move on to the next hot issue. Maybe its abortion, maybe its border security and immigration.

[gotc147]

I never said he would get impeached over it, I'm asking simple opinions of whether people think he should be impeached or not.

The Patriot Act should've gotten Bush impeached but it didn't because nobody stood up and said "hey, we don't want that"

That's the problem with this country, everybody just bitches and whines about things they don't like, nobody acctually DOES anything to try and change it.

[iamranga]

Ask the question, but like any trial if you don't have evidence you won't get very far.

BTW this is politics. If bribery happened it wouldn't be the first time.

You're so p*ssed off about the debt, you do know Americe has been fighting 2 major wars for nearly a decade and has suffered the biggest financial meltdown since the Depression right?

The GFC would not have occured if the markets were regulated.

[gotc147]

And this meltdown is whose fault? Politicians. Every single problem this country as a whole has is the fault of politicians trying to stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Have you ever noticed that every time the government tries to "help" the people they end up doing more harm than good? Look at what just happened with US Airways and Delta's PRIVATE buisness proposal, they tried to help each other and all the DOT and FAA did was screw everybody (their competitors included) over.

[DanielSan]

REVOLUTION.

the war for independence was started for less.

[gotc147]

This modern age the government thinks the people won't stand up with an armed response (and if fate has any sense of mercy it won't come to that) but there is a large faction of people called the "Militia movement" that have vowed to form an armed response to any government attempt to sieze civilian firearms.

Violence is that last thing I want personally, but with the tea party and militia movement being the way they are I greatly fear we might be heading for it.

[DanielSan]

Violence is always terrible. But it is folly for the sheep to make a peace with the wolves....just so we can live in harmony.

[Curiouskevin]

Afghanistan atrocities alone are reason for impeachment

[Rainbows]

No, of course not. Are you retarded?

[Littletad]

Of course he isn't rainbows. Really read what he said, and try to understand the reason why so many are upset about this president. Should be impeached? Maybe, maybe not. But there's no denying people are p*ssed.

[gotc147]

He went against what the people wanted, forced a massive takeover of our healthcare down our throats, forced us to pay for our own insurance which the only reason people that didn't have it in the first place was because they couldn't afford it (catch 22 anyone?).

How would you like it if I told you you need to go buy a brand new Toyota Prius every year or pay a fine that's about as much? It helps the enviroment, but could you afford it?

[Littletad]

Read the book "Nudge" by one of Obama's followers. Yeah, horrifying.

[cjwright79]

Exactly. You say right in your question that states may overrule the federal plan if they wish, so how is the proposal a problem for you?

[gotc147]

@ cjwright: The state I live in is not one of the states that will overrule it.

BTW, my favorite firearm is an FN2000 followed closely by a G36C

[Spikes105466]

He went against what the people wanted...

You cannot please everybody, lets not get ignorant. Just because he went against someones beliefs does not mean that he went against "the people". The way you frame that is a connotation that builds up something out of nothing.

Under the health care you pay and you get covered. It's better to be covered then not and face the risk of being bled thousands that you don't have. I rather pay a little to insure I don't get screwed by insurance companies.

[Spikes105466]

Again you are taking things out of proportion. A new Prius every year? That's a laugh. To be honest to have people buy a efficient vehicle is the easiest way to allow some environmental thought to people... Sad as that sounds and anyway have you any knowledge of the oil crisis? Do you know that our precious oil will be scarce around 2015-2020? Its best to have a good fuel economy opposed to spending billions of oil... Can you afford $14 a gallon? Look at Europe.

[gotc147]

Ok Spikes, it's nice to see that you admit you're arrogent.

First off, I am well aware that you cannot please everybody, but fewer than 30% of the American people were opposed to it, usually you'd want to keep the majority happy.

Secondly, I fully agree that our healthcare system sucked before and agreed that something should be done about it, but forcing people to buy insurance is unconstitutional and isn't going to help anybody but insurance companies since they were not limited in how..

[gotc147]

... Much they can charge a client for coverage. This law was passed and if the government can force its people to buy insurance it can force them to buy anything, the Prius was just an example. In my opinion a government forcing its people to buy ANYTHING is more than socialism or even communism, it's a lot like naziism.

It's obvious you're a bleeding heart liberal, buying the whole global warming and oil shortage bullsh*t that the media is throwing around. You want to use alternative fuels..

[gotc147]

... Be my guest, but until (and if) hybrid and alternate fuel engines are on par with today's modern diesel engines, I'm not sacrificing vehicle performance for effecintcy.

That being said, this whole "go green" idea that the liberals are trying to push the world (yes, the world) into is nothing more than a hoax, do some research on the Builderberg group and Maurie Strong, then take a look at some of the ideas floating in the United Nations, especially the one about a "world bank".

[gotc147]

I'm sorry, allow me to fix an error in my typing, I meant to say fewer than 30% of Americans SUPPORTED the healthcare bill.

[Epiphanies]

Thank god I live in Canada

[gotc147]

Why do you say that?

[Epiphanies]

That's all that needs to be said.

[gotc147]

Canada has it's own set of problems.

[Epiphanies]

I admit that but I'm still glad :)

[gotc147]

Well, can't argue with that attitude lol.