3 Big Misconceptions about Liberalism and Liberals

[Waffles731]

There are a lot of people who think that Liberals are evil and some people just don't understand what it means to be a liberal or that there are different forms of liberalism like there are different forms of conservatism. So here are several misconceptions about what liberalism is.

1. Liberals automatically hate guns

I like guns. When I move to Washington State I'm planning on doing a lot of hiking, camping, fishing, and a little hunting. However I do not want to be caught unarmed when encountering a Caribou, an Elk, A Wolf, A Cougar, A Bear, ectera so I'm planning on getting a Concealed Carry License and a six shot .38 snub-nosed revolver. Now despite Washington being the first state to legalize all three of Recreational use of Marijuana, Assisted Suicide, and Same Sex Marriage and generally being an ultra-liberal state its gun laws are similar to Nevada or the Carolinas and it accepts permits from the Carolinas. The state that happily elected the democratic socialist Bernie Sanders has looser gun laws than Texas.

See here is the thing, when it comes to Democrats and guns, the Democrats actually have a conservative stance and the GOP has a liberal stance. (Mind-fuck I know) the attitudes on gun's and marijuana are why the Libertarian party is more socially liberal than than the democrats yet their attitude towards welfare and healthcare and more fiscally conservative than the GOP. You see

The definition of Liberalism is, "Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality."

The Definition of Conservatism is, "Conservatism (or conservativism) is any political philosophy that favours tradition (in the sense of various religious, cultural, or nationally-defined beliefs and customs) in the face of external forces for change, and is critical of proposals for radical social change."

So the right to own guns is actually liberal (And make no mistake I'm not a democrat and am a Registered independent.) is something the Democrats need to stop saying that 'liberals support assault weapons bans' and shit, because by definition, that is not liberal.

2. Liberals hate America

I fucking love this country and people like Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz make me Angry about the corruption and people trying to hold us back. I am pro Universal Healthcare, Tax-payer funded education, expanding welfare and social security. I'm a democratic socialist. (I'm not a communist though I do think that communism might be one day achieved properly when we reach post scarcity in a hundred and something years, till then I'm a democratic socialist)

I want to end the exploitation of ANYONE. I want people to be valued because they are human not because they are wealthy. I love America and I just have a different view of the direction we should go in.

3. Misconception; Liberals love political correctness

Despite not really being sure of what people talk about when they mean political correctness. I love freedom of speech. I think that you should have the right to say what you want as long as you are not threatening or slandering someone. I might think its racist or bull-shit in which case I will use my free-speech to call your racist comments or bull-shit out but you do need to remember what the 1st amendment actually protects.

[somebodysaycheese]

I waa once a liberal before i startes thinking for myself. No offense but this exactly what they are like whiny little babies who throw fits when people dont have views like them but we live ina place of freedom of speech and equality right? No, no such thing as equality , to give someone more equality is to take away someone elses freedoms. oh and a socialist is pretty much the same as a communist its wanting to take away individual freedoms to get what you want. So, i kinda disagree with this.

[Waffles731]

No, its actually not, the same as communism,
Communism the state owns everything, Socialism has everyones basic needs met but the state owns everything, there are a great many varieties of socialism but communism has only a handful

[Waffles731]

"Socialism has everyones basic needs met but the state owns everything, "
But the state does not own everything

[somebodysaycheese]

Socialism is where a few people threw enough fits to get everything handed to them so they force their ways upon the masses through govt. Communism is socialism are the same thing is a super fine line. You cannot create free anything without taking from someone else by enforcing your feelings onto others

[Waffles731]

It just changes who gets shit I. E the people like the Waltons lose a couple billionto pay for peoples healthcare yet the average persons life becomes better.
Money isn't a luxary, its a necessity and some people have way too much and some people don't have nearly enough

[Waffles731]

I'm perfectly fine with paying more taxes if it means more people live,
Weren't you like born in germany, how did they handle this

[somebodysaycheese]

Noone should expect the wealthy to spread their health but hope. Plus the wealthy giving to the poor is a Christian moral so if you aren't a Christian i dont see why athiest agnostics hold onto the Christian morals they like.
Socialism doesn't work look at Europe. They are collapsing

[Waffles731]

"athiest agnostics "
I'm NOT an atheist nor an agnostic, I do believe in a deity

[Waffles731]

Are you, an atheist or an agnostic, is that what you meant?

[Waffles731]

"Noone should expect the wealthy to spread their health but hope."
Your right,
it'd probably be better to simply take it from them by force, more fun

[Waffles731]

"""Noone should expect the wealthy to spread their health but hope."
Your right,
it'd probably be better to simply take it from them by force, more fun"
But the point at I'm getting at there, if they are only out for themselves, and someone else is hurting, how is it any different to take from them

[somebodysaycheese]

No i wasn't clear thats my bad. I mean the bernie supoortersandd democrats are mostly athiest even though so are the republicans mostly but yea.

[Waffles731]

So, your an atheist and you don't care that people are suffering in their only life?

[Waffles731]

But seriously if this is a dog eat dog world in your worldview, what is morally wrong about taking what the majority need to survive from the ultra rich

[Waffles731]

That doesn't make a lick of sense

[Aria2020]

For sure

[Aria2020]

That was a reply to waffles not cheese girl. These reply Windows don't seem set up right.

[madhatters4]

great take. agree on each point
i'm liberal. i don't hate guns at all... only the actions a minority of people use them for
i'm liberal... i've traveled to many places and can say that even with its flaws america is the best place on earth
i'm liberal... and think we are often too sensitive to things people say. there are things that cross lines but most people should be able to look past the simple words a person uses and understand their intention

[gotc147]

In regard to number 2...

Donald Trump is not corrupt, he's just an ass, there is a HUGE difference.

Also, expanding welfare and social security is blatantly anti-American. Americans not so long ago prided themselves on getting essentially zero help from the government in their day to day lives, people succeeded and failed entirely on their own merits.

To define an entrapreneur, imagine jumping off a cliff and building an airplane on the way down. Expanded social programs kill this attitude because there is no reason to take the risk, the government will just take care of you. This has the long-term effect of less competition in business, which is the key to a capitalist society, which drives up prices, kills jobs and increase the burden the welfare state must take on. The result is a death spiral of more and more people in the wagon with fewer and fewer people pulling it.

Many other countries have learned this lesson the hard way, Venezuela, Greece, Italy, Spain... America does not need to suffer through failed economic experiments and there is no need to try to reinvent the wheel when we have a very good model already.

Equality is great, but I only support equality of opportunity, whereas liberals want equality of results.

[Waffles731]

"Also, expanding welfare and social security is blatantly anti-American. Americans not so long ago prided themselves on getting essentially zero help from the government in their day to day lives, people succeeded and failed entirely on their own merits."
Really, When was that, the 1950s or the 40s back when the middle class was created, cause that is untrue

[Waffles731]

"Venezuela, Greece, Italy, Spain... America does not need to suffer through failed economic experiments and there is no need to try to reinvent the wheel when we have a very good model already."
Yeah, cause Denmark, Sweden are really struggling economically, Hell the U. K used to be doing very well before brexit

[gotc147]

It can cost up to 180% of the value of a car to actually register it in Denmark, like most who praise socialistic systems you fail to do your homework.

The UK is going to experience some turbulent times yes, but they'll be much better off for it on the back end. The UK basically jumped out of a disabled airplane with a parachute with a few holes in it. Yes it's going to be a scarey ride down and the landing is going to hurt but you know what? It's better than still being on the plane when it hits the ground.

[JRH1991]

There's a difference between a real Liberal and these fake, special snowflake commies that mascaraed around as liberals. Real Liberals really don't care what another person does or is into as long as they don't get in the way of your life or try to drag you into their issues against your will (Basically live and let live). These communist liberals on the other hand are not Liberals, they say they are for everyone being free to be themselves and that we must accept everyone: But not the people who believe in the right to bare arms, people who don't believe in certain things because of their religious beliefs, But yet think that islam is a religion of peace and can do no harm even though they openly they will kill all non believers and do kill homosexuals. These so called liberals also push political correctness because they think that we should not be hateful towards others because we might offend them, Yet they turn around and are spiteful, Violent and flat out hateful to others who don't agree.

[godfatherfan]

It doesn't say how old you are. I have been a Democrat my entire life. Although officially since 1984 when I watched the entire Republican and Democratic conventions and realized I identify strongly with the Democrats.
I have never heard anyone say anything that you listed. So not sure where you came up with those.
I have been a hunter since I was 7 and just started walking along side my dad and grandpa. I have had a Concealed pistol license since 1994. I shoot regularly and have many guns. Democrats are for common sense reform of gun laws, not one Democrat has ever said they want to take away guns.
I cannot stand people that are politically correct.
and I don't even understand number 2 so I will just ignore it.
the best way to understand the difference between a Democrat and Republican is the following: (I hope it shows the pic. It rarely works when I try and post pictures.)
[IMG]https://i64. tinypic. com/34eqdc3. jpg[/IMG]
https://tinypic.com/m/jl5tva/4

[godfatherfan]

I don't understand how people get graphics and such to show up in posts. They never work for me.

[QuestionMan]

I hate to break it to you Waffles but you're not a liberal. Not in the modern sense that is.
A modern liberal is someone that thinks like the Young Turks.

We agree on some issues like free speech, guns, and tax payer funded education. Our views diverge when it comes to healthcare since I believe in a two tier system (one government funded for the poor and one private for whomever prefers it), I don't believe in a safety net instead I believe in a safety trampoline which would be a system in which the government would help you back up and into the workplace as quickly as possible instead of you sitting on welfare.

I consider myself a centrist. Perhaps I should give my ideology a name. Haven't thought of one yet.

You are most likely a social democrat.

[Waffles731]

Lets be honest here I'm kinda bi-polar with my thoughts

[QuestionMan]

Look up social democracy I think it matches your economic views perfectly.

[Dargil]

You have me on 1 and 3, but lets look at 2.
Free stuff is great, but who pays for it? The average annual income per taxpayer in the USA is about $52,000 and pays maybe $4,500 in federal income tax. The average in-state tuition and fees for a student is $9,400. My most recent Obamacare quote (I pay the penalty, instead and am uncovered) was $4,600 with a huge deductible. So for those freebies for your snowflake, my obligation is $14,000 or another 9,500 out of my earnings if I earn about $52,000. That's another $182 out of my weekly check. Lest we forget, you want to increase welfare and social security. Who pays for the stuff I now can't afford? There aren't enough "the rich" to cover more than a fraction of what you want if you strip every cent from them. Everyone should take Economics 101 so they don't think the USA is their personal horn of plenty. I don't care who you fuck or what you smoke, but I have a right to the fruits of my hard work, not you.

[Dargil]

In-state in a government school.

[Waffles731]

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that obamacare is HEAVILY flawed and needs A FUCKLOAD of improving

[Waffles731]

I mean you got punished for not having healthcare,
That is exactly the opposite of the point

[Dargil]

Your socialist fantasy is absolutely unworkable, The USA is already $20 trillion in debt that it can't pay back. Your kids and grand kids will inherit the debt without the benefits of it and that's when the Second Amendment will come into play.

[LiveFreeorDieHard]

Look at most of the problems facing us and see its conservatives who are ruining America but liberals have given them a helping hand. Obama basically let the pharmaceutical companies write obamacare instead of actually establishing a single payer system. Enough of these so called progressives who don't actually walk the talk. Look at Hilary who supports just slightly amending ptt, I'm assuming to better hide the shitty details lol. We need real change. Combine food stamps, all welfare period, Medicare and Medicaid and social security I tithe garenteed income. Anyone living under 25000 gets 12000 a year tax free to pay for their own needs, that's just enough so they survive but if they want a better living standard they are going to have to work for it.

[Redstang88]

Some fair points, but I still find that liberals tend to more of the naïve optimists. I'm mostly on the liberal end of things when it comes to social issues, but one thing I have and always will take a liberal stance is on finances.
I do not believe in handouts or free rides. Supporting those who cannot support themselves is one thing, but those who just don't fell like it is wrong. I refuse to support punishing those who work hard to earn more. I was raised to earn what I received and it will always stay with me. Competition breeds success, and that's what keeps the world going- hard work and success. That is why socialism/communism will never work. Why work when you have the same standard of living if you don't? There will always be winners and losers; rich and poor.
If people want a good life, they should go out and earn it.

[AlphaMale1]

I am non-committed to any political belief or agenda. So I can read this with an open mind.

This was written by a liberal. If any political party would try honest journalism I doubt they would win many elections. The population is being brainwashed by the liberal-controlled media. This is why I no longer watch TV or read news from major sources.

6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America. FOX News is the only conservative news outlet. Ironically, FOX has a larger viewing audience than all the rest.
www.foxnews.com/.../...etworks-for-first-time.html
Be very careful in what you believe from any news media source.

[JRICHARDS1996]

Regarding point #1, I believe that you are guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy. If you are going to argue that gun-control is not a liberal idea, then inevitably you are going to be forced to concede that all of the self-proclaimed liberals who do support it are not truly liberal. In which case, what makes you any different from the Muslims who say that ISIS is not representative of "true Islam" or neocons who say that environmentalists are not true conservatives despite the fact that it was Republican Richard Nixon who started the EPA?

[John_Doesnt]

I'm a liberal who hates political correctness & I enjoyed this take.

[ginny_weasley]

I am fairly liberal and I hate political correctness. I have however been called politically correct but I just call that respectful of other people.

[HeWhoPonders]

"I am a Democratic Socialist."

scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/.../...26135460_n.jpg

I rest my case.

[ModernDayCrusader]

I am a national socialist. I like universal healthcare, but it won't work with our current economy. We need to dismantle the federal reserve and print our own currency, interest free, and controlled by Americans. Not zionist Jews.
Democracy is tyranny (Will of majority controls minority)

[PT1911]

That literally means you are a Nazi.

Nazi is the abbreviation for "national socialist"

[ModernDayCrusader]

Is that all you got from my opinion?
Also between 1933-1939 unemployment in Germany was almost non-existent.
The country had recovered from the depression WW1 and the Versailles treaty.

Sounds like what the USA needs, of course without all the eugenics and genocide lol.

I am not a nazi. I am a national socialist

[TheFlak38]

The reaction of the indoctrinated brainwashed biological ruin "You are Nazi"
without any knowledge about this degrading term or the ideology. Just following his programming and what his marxist school teacher taught him.

[ModernDayCrusader]

@TheFlak38 any true student of Hitler or nazi Germany's understands that Hitler hated Marxism and Bolshevism, he saw them as Jewish creations. Which they were.

[PT1911]

Well considering that members if my family saw it first hand...

"Nazi" is literally the German abbreviation of of the translation of "national socialist".

Also I fought hard against my Marxist professors to prevent them from brainwashing me.

Hitlet himself was on the left of the politiical spectrum, but just to the right of stalin and his regime

And that's why America isn't a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

[ModernDayCrusader]

@PT1911 You still believe the united states is still a Republic? That is very naive
We are a socialist democracy... Nvm, actually we are an oligarchy. the republic died a long time ago, December 23rd 1913.
Thats when the federal reserve act was established.
My grandfather died in WW2, he was an Italian Soldier. He was on the other side...

Yeah fuck marxism, i think everyone should agree on that.

[PT1911]

I still believe we are, as all of the corruption is finally coming to light.

And I feel you on that. My grandad fought at Odessa in the Romanian army

[ModernDayCrusader]

@PT1911 Hopefully one day, we can re-establish our "Republic"
I hope my kids, or their kids will live in a republic, and be intelligent enough to understand its value, and why it must be maintained

[PT1911]

And then retake Constanstinople from the Turks?

[ModernDayCrusader]

@PT1911 hell yeah!

[PT1911]

This is what happend when we sit down and talk.

We disagree, we hammer out our viewpoints

And the we agree on what needs to be done!

[ModernDayCrusader]

@PT1911 Sadly, not everyone can be as mature lol
Cheers!

[bloodmountain1990]

That sounds like socialist-fascist-communist-totalitarian-Nazi-Stalinist-Al Qaeda talk to me.

lol just kidding, great take. Another misconception is that liberals want government taking over and controlling EVERYTHING. I'm pretty liberal and am for free market capitalism but you have to have restraints somewhere. You can't just make it so companies can have their workers and society in danger just so they can make a profit.

[Anonymous]

I am a conservative, but found this to be a very interesting read. I like seeing things from different points of view, and there are actually a lot of things I agree with on here. I think there is a happy medium between very far right and very far left, and a lot of people have a hard time finding it.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty liberal, and I didn't even know those 3 things were misconceptions about liberals. Usually the only misconceptions I come across are things that nutty ultra conservatives believe, like we have no religion, we're trying to destroy the nuclear family, we're all hippies and communists, and so on.

[amandaaxo]

if liberals love america so much then why do they want sanctuary cities and to steal from americans who actually work hard so they can just give more to illegal immigrants who dont care about our country?

[Waffles731]

If conservatives love America so much why do they base so much of their policy off the bible when the constitution guarantees separation of church and state

[amandaaxo]

ill answer your question after you properly answer mine

[Waffles731]

Fine, I'll call your ignorance.
First off, if people want to immigrate to this country then let them, we should make it easier.
We are built on the backs of immigrants, steve jobs is the son of a syrian immigrant.
Silicon valley heads generally lean liberal so don't give me that economy bullshit cause Tech companies are the future, mining and manufacturing is the past.
Third, you can complain about liberals hating America when you spend twelve years in the military like my liberal father

[Waffles731]

cdn.someecards.com/.../...YjQyMzM4NjViODZkZTc4.png
See the big three founding fathers, Jefferson, Franklin, and Washington were Deists not christians

[amandaaxo]

if immigrants wanted to come to America legally, learn to speak English, get an education, contribute to society and BECOME American, then I would be more than hsppy to welcome them. But when people are bringing their corrupt cultures into my country illegally and then demanding rights and money from Americans who do their jobs, thats when I have a problem. Living in a country as great as America is not a right, its a privilege. Yes, some of us are lucky enough to be born with that privilege; and I have as much disdain for those who waste that privilege as I do for those who illegally steal it.
And Benjamin Franklin was a complex man. Though he did have doubts about certain aspects of the Bible, he maintained that there is an omnipresent, benevolent and personal God. He raised his daighter a Christian and he went to church. He never dissuaded anyone from Christianity and when people claimed he was not a Christian he would take offense. Everybody has doubts about their beliefs at some

[Waffles731]

He was a deist like the others

[Waffles731]

https://www.deism.com/deistamerica.htm

[Waffles731]

"if immigrants wanted to come to America legally, learn to speak English, "
We don't have an official language,
Puerto rico speaks both Spanish and English with Spanish as the primary yet everyone knowing English

[amandaaxo]

point in their lives. Was Ben Franklin a great man? I like to think so. But was he a perfect man? There is no such thing. Ben Franklin may not have been certain of his religious beliefs, but the Constitution is still heavily imbedded with religious values and morality.
The first amendment in the Bill of Rights grants all Americans freedom of religion. Gay marraige inhibits that freedom in circumstances such as the Kim Davis issue earlier this year I believe. Its not as though people can just practise gay marraige behind closed doors; once the law is changed to accept something like this, all people are required to accept it regardless of their religion. And when i say "liberals hate america" (your words not mine) I dont mean that in a direct and literal sense. I just mean that liberal beliefs seem to be changing America from what makes it so great into something that I find almost abhorrent.
by the way, i hope we can keep this debate in good spirits. i dont mean to be insulting i just want

[amandaaxo]

answers

[Waffles731]

" Kim Davis issue earlier this year I believe. Its not as though people can just practise gay marraige behind closed "
Kim Davis was a government employee who refused to do her job.
Second, OF COURSE I'M INSULTED,
My father is liberal and he spent twelve years in the military, when you do that, you can say he hates america,
Third, ", but the Constitution is still heavily imbedded with religious values and morality. "
Not at all really,
Separation of church and state is very heavily present. Then add in freedom of speech which includes the right to blashphemy.
:once the law is changed to accept something like this, all people are required to accept it regardless of their religion."
You don't like gay marriage, fine then don't get gay married,
I disagree with 'pray a way the gay camps' and make no mistake they are child abuse.
So does that mean I have to accept it.

[amandaaxo]

i dont think your father hates america and i dont think you do either. im sorry that you got that impression although i guess i understand why you would. its not that i think liberals hate america. i just think that many of the general liberal beliefs are unethical and unjust and go against what i personally think our country stands for.

[amandaaxo]

www.increasinglearning.com/...klin-conversion.html
ben franklin struggled with religion; he was certainly not just a cut and dried deist. and a couple of the several founding fathers being deists doesn't really affect my argument at all. i mean, i think there's a more overarching debate here and thats kind of a nuance.

[Waffles731]

"unethical and unjust and go against what i personally think our country stands for."
I think those very things about conservativism

[amandaaxo]

okay but why? I've been trying to explain to you my thought process on why i take issue with liberal standpoints. And I un-sarcastically would love to hear your issues with conservativism.

[Waffles731]

We stand for individual rights, yet conservativism want to take away things like abortion, gay marriage etc, they claim states rights but the very fact is that states rights are inferior and lesser than the rights of an individual

[Waffles731]

The fact they constantly try to inject religion into poltics when we are a secular country.
The whole patriot act was passed by a conservative congress.
Citizens united which gives corporations power to influence elections

[amandaaxo]

but liberals want to take away money that I earn and give it to people that dont work for it. if you can tell me that all the people that my tax dollars are benefiting are honest hard working people who put in all the effort they can to support their family, then ill be the first to help them out. i donate $50 a week to impoverished people through my church. but i know those are a minority and i get upset about 40 cents of my every hard-earned dollar get taken away to give to people who dont deserve it. About abortion and gay marraige, im not trying to take things away from people. i just dont want my money going to things that contradict my religion, and I dont want to be forced to support those types of lifestyles. Hey, if you dont want kids dont have sex. thats your right.

[Waffles731]

"but liberals want to take away money that I earn and give it to people that dont work for it. if you can tell me that all the people that my tax dollars are benefiting are honest hard working people who put in all the effort they can to support their family, "
So we continue being the only western country that lets people die of cancer because they can't pay.
How very un-christian

[amandaaxo]

i "inject" religion into politics because both have to come into play when morality is concerned. if i take my morals from my religion, how can i make a moral decision in politics without consulting my religion?

[Waffles731]

Hypocrisy like that Is why I turned away from organized religion, well that and the whole.
Suicides go to hell thing, actually the latter mostly.
Now I've found spiritual comfort

[Waffles731]

Simply, you follow this rule, if it isn't hurting others, then I need to allow it even if It goes against my beliefs, mix that with basic science, and compassion,
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with belief in a deity, I do myself, but you just can't let it influence you on your vote cause thats what Iran is and
what led to te salem witch trials

[Waffles731]

Fuck its one am here I'm out of here

[PT1911]

Saying democratic socialism isn't socialism is like saying statutory rape isn't rape.

[Waffles731]

I said, I'm not communism

[Anonymous]

" political correctness" is just a conservative porte manteau term used by conservatives for anything liberals say or do.
Analyze it:
'political' means it's about political stances or ideas.
'correct' means it's about being honest and respectful.

So, what's wrong about political stances or ideas being honest and respectful or aiming to be that?

[Accipiter]

Liberals only like political correctness when they can use it against their foes on the right and center.