The Problem With Our Current Dating Culture

[Wild_Bill]

Scenario 1

Lindsey is a gorgeous 23 year old. She has an ideal slender, toned, sexy body. She spends several hours getting ready to go out. Society teaches her sex appeal is everything, so that is her focus. She routinely shoots down average looking men she does not find attractive and goes for the pretty boy who ends up being an asshole and only wanting sex.

Lindsey doesn't understand why all the men she meets are assholes. Lindsey believes she is amazing and puts herself on a pedestal because she is hot.

The rest of Lindsey's life is subpar. She dropped out of college, works as a receptionist at doctor's office, and is a waitress at Hooters on weekends. She bought a used car 3 years ago that she never once cleaned.

Her finances are a mess with $30k in student loan debt and and $10k in credit card debt. Her apartment is a disaster because she doesn't believe in antiquated female roles of women cooking and cleaning.

Lindsey is great for sex in the short term, but will likely make a lousy wife and mother. She will mindlessly live in financial misery and never grasp why.

Scenario 2

Steve is an average looking guy who works out regularly. Steve is in good shape but is of average attractiveness. Steve typically gets shot down by girls like Lindsey, so he doesn't even bother approaching overly attractive girls anymore. He admittedly is awkward and shy around hot girls, so he dates girls of average/modest looks.

Although Steve's dating game could use work, the rest of his life is great. Steve is professionally very successful and personally well rounded. He has 2 degrees, owns a home and several rental properties. He has several nice cars for different occasions. He keeps his home and vehicles in good condition but he's not obsessive ocd about it.

Steve manages his money very well and has many passive revenue streams which will grow to a point in which he could probably retire before 40. Steve is great with his neices and nephews and will make an excellent father one day. He is also very loyal, treats women with respect, and will make a great husband as well.

For some reason: our society glorifies the Lindseys of the world and shuns the Steves. That is what is wrong with our society today.

[Bluemax]

Most gorgeous women don't want to date assholes and those that do have mental problems. The reality of it is that people want to date Attractive people. Sometimes physical attraction can make other considerations take a backseat. But it is not that they actively see jerks.

As for the second scenario, I don't think the world shuns people like Steve at all. I think that gorgeous women occasionally reject Steve because they don't find him physically attractive, but that is not at all the same as shutting a person. You can reject someone and still admire them as a human. It only means that you are not attracted to this person, not that you think they were an inferior person. Furthermore people have every right to reject whomever they do not find attractive, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

If Steve is getting consistently shot down by women like Lindsay, then Steve should work on becoming less awkward and more attractive to women like Lindsey.

[dantetheexplorer]

Sorry. Steve is not entitled to "hot girls", no matter what his place on the social ladder is. He's not entitled to any woman, period. Nobody is entitled to another person's love.

Also, please show me how society is shunning people like Steve? Man with a stable job, passive income, and a good head on his shoulders? Where's the numbers, the examples, of society shunning people like Steve? I'd hate for you to have typed so much, only to base your premise on hearsay.

If by "society shunning Steve" you mean that Steve doesn't get "hot girls", please see my first point.

[Bluemax]

Amen! Steve ain't shunned. Being rejected isn't shunning. And if Steve wants a gorgeous woman, it might pay to make attempts at being less shy and awkward around them.

[dantetheexplorer]

@Bluemax The entire time I was reading "Steve's" part, I was thinking "This man feels shunned by society because he thinks he deserves "hot girls" ". If Steve's social standing and money is him being "shunned" by society, I shudder to think what the post-starter considers the homeless out on the street.

[Wild_Bill]

My point was quite the opposite. The Lindseys of the world should be damn glad the Steves are even remotely interested in them. The Lindseys feel entitled but have nothing to offer besides sex while the Steves may have everything to offer.

Remember looks fade over time. Hookups are one thing, but over the course of a life time, being hot is a liability not an asset. Forbes and the Wall Street Journal have many articles backing that point based on interviews with billionaires and why most billionaire men don't ever bother with the "hot girl" with nothing else going for her.

[Xoxocutekitty]

I want to see Steves FICO credit score. What kind of "normal" guy has 2 degrees, owns a home, AND several rental companies AND several nice cars. Either Steve is in A LOT more debt than Lindsey, or he comes from very family that is VERY wealthy. Also how old is Steve. Assuming he is Lindsey's age, how did he have time to complete his master's degree when most people graduate at age 22. That must have been a very short masters program. And how did he get that 20% downpayment on a house while attending university. I know Lindsey isn't perfect, but I didn't know there were so many average unicorns out there named steve.

[Wild_Bill]

Well, if you didn't catch on, Steve is just a younger version of myself. I used to be on the shyer side. I pulled myself out of poverty, I went to school, I obtained two degrees, I self educated myself. and became very good with money. I've been a firefighter / paramedic for 15 years on busy organizations. I've seen and done more than most people do in a lifetime. I've saved countless lives: pediatric and adult.

Granted, I didn't have balls when I was younger and I have way more confidence now.

My frustration has always been with girls like Lindsey who attack me as a person. I completely understand that not everyone is going to like me or be interested in me. But how fucking dare the Lindseys of the world judge me on a personal level when they don't contribute a damn thing to anyone and they don't have their lives together in any way, shape, or form.

[Xoxocutekitty]

good job as You must have worked really hard for those things... but as you probably know, a lot of people, not just Lindsey's don't WANT to work that hard in life. A lot of people want to be with the kind of person who isn't dedicating their lives towards something that may or may not actually benefit them. A lot of people want to date someone who has time. It's not "fun" or really that interesting to date the ambitious person when every single day, both parties know what is and who isn't a priority, because "it's a work thing". No one wants to be treated like they aren't a priority. No one likes to feel lazy because they dont WANT to work as hard as you. The Lindseys in the world want attention now, not later when you supposedly have all of these things. You can have all of these accomplishments, and still not have the skills to notice when someone had a bad day over something that you see as so menial compared to saving lives. There needs to be mutual respect.

[jellyroo]

Just one thing - why is it implied that Lindsey should be dating people she doesn't find as attractive, but Steve should be entitled to go after women "over" his attraction level?

I'm not sure which country this dating culture is meant to refer to, but I think both sides of the coin are pretty shallow today. There's more focus (publicly) on a hot body and pretty face, both when it comes to men and women.

Also, as long as men go for Lindsey because she's hot, they are helping to fuel this type of culture. It kind of writes itself, I don't see how society is to blame.

[jellyroo]

(this obviously goes for Lindsey as well who wants a good man in her life but also chooses to pick her dates strictly based on hotness)

[Bluedream13]

because steve put in actual effort to EARN it, lindsey has a big hole in her life that she attempts to fill with her looks

[jellyroo]

@Bluedream13 I don't think you can "earn" having access to hot people simply by working hard within your personal life. There are many things that factor into attraction, but looks will still always be a main component. Especially with an easily accessed dating climate that is mostly digital in modern western societies.

If men feel discriminated against in dating because they can't get hot chicks like Lindsey who they think don't have that much going for them ANYWAY, maybe they should promote to other men NOT to go after girls like her in the first place?
Or, you know, people have free will and can make dating choices at their own joy and disaster.

[Bluedream13]

have you never seen a successful man with a more attractive wife? You think online dating eliminates this possibility? Working hard with your personal life totally does gain you access to hotter people and there are examples everywhere

Also, steve is average looking but in good shape, that should be enough for most people if he's bringing a bunch of success to the table.

[jellyroo]

@Bluedream13 where have I claimed in any way that being wealthy and successful doesn't attract hot people to you? All I did was say that physical attraction is ONE main component, and that you don't automatically earn someone's attraction just BECAUSE you work hard - meaning you can't have the entitlement of thinking women above your attraction level MUST be attracted to you because you work hard or is a decent guy.

If a decent person wants a good partner, they should look for a decent person too, not the hottest one in the room. Just like Lindsey shouldn't be going after the "assholes" just because they're hot, neither should men, if they REALLY want to succeed in finding someone compatible.

[Bluedream13]

nowhere is it implied that steve 'should' be entitled to dating lindseys. It is a truth of this world that successful men simply do attract hotter women, so I don't know why it would even matter if this was implied as it is already true. If lindsey wants to be hot and an amazing person, then she can date someone who is hot and an amazing person. If she wants to be hot and vapid, she can date someone who's hot and vapid or an amazing person but not hot.

Get it?

[Wild_Bill]

I didn't mean to imply that Lindsey should settle. My greater point is that certain girls (not all by any means) are taught the sex appeal is everything. They believe being hot is the ultimate asset, when in reality, that one dimensional thought process is a liability because looks can fade in an instant or as she ages. Being a well rounded multidimensional person is not taught to everyone and paradoxically, the one dimensional sexually driven people are the one's with the biggest egos.

I don't like to blame society in general. I believe in individual accountability and responsibility. That being said, society is to blame to an extent for ramming sexuality into every aspect of western culture. Everything is sexualized, to the point that being friendly and sociable is misconstrued as intense flirting.

[jellyroo]

You have some good points, I feel like I underst and your original sentiment better now.

That said, I don't think all western culture is like you say - the whole taboo sex thing has always been very American to me (in terms of western culture, if you disregard religious areas in Europe).
My country isn't much like that at all, at least from my experience. Won't say anything about the dating culture though, since I haven't been part of it here.

[Knighted2170]

It's not really a dating culture thing. It's a societal thing.

Steve has given up because he believes he does not deserve to go out with the women he believes are 10's. Just to clarify, my idea of a 10 is going to be different than other guys.

Lindsey is a spoiled little brat of a girl. She acts this way because her parents never told her no, her popularity in school set her on a pedestal. The weak little boys gave her whatever she wanted, the "bad boys" gave her a challenge. She enjoyed the challenge, so she keeps choosing those individuals.

How is this a societal thing?
Society says that if you don't have Brad Pitts looks, Bill Gates money, James Bond's charisma, or Tom Brady's athletic ability you don't have a chance with the super hot girl.
The average looking guy, who enjoys nerdy things, and is overall the "nice" guy only gets the girl of his dreams in the movies. Even then she is more than likely average, and has been standing in front of him the whole time.

The exact reverse is a societal truth for women.

[Kiran04]

Trust me, the world is doing Steve a favor by having Lindsey shoot him down. In your own words, Lindsey would make a lousy wife and mother. What you didn't list on the scenario is John, the hotty asshole manboy who probably makes good money, but has virtually no other qualifications for a relationship. He spends money as fast as he can make it. He drinks. He parties. He sleeps around, but he always wraps it so that he doesn't get saddled with child support. He doesn't just get the Lindseys, but also the tier just under Lindsey, the semi-hot chicks. Like Lindsey, they've been taught that they deserve the world, so John's lavish lifestyle, abundant cash, and exciting night life are what they see. Not his inability to commit, his lack of functional society skills, his instability, his disloyalty, and his fickleness. They date John, they love John, they get dumped and heart broken by John, then they think all men are scum because they only men on their radar are Johns. They pass up Steve because he's not exciting, and John has Lindseys around. Surely a man that can get women that hot must be worth something.

[Trollfather]

Nowhere did he say "hotty asshole manboy who probably makes good money, but has virtually no other qualifications for a relationship. He spends money as fast as he can make it. He drinks. He parties. He sleeps around, but he always wraps it so that he doesn't get saddled with child support. He doesn't just get the Lindseys, but also the tier just under Lindsey, the semi-hot chicks."

That's just a bunch of assumptions you made about him based on your own experiences in life.

[Trollfather]

Ah misread. Thought you were talking about Steve again.

[Tay1410]

Can I just ask, why would Steve want someone like Lindsey anyway? If she's only attractive but undesirable in every other way? I feel like Steve's literally shunned all the nice 'modest' but probably great girls out there in order to try and find a 'hot' girl like Lindsey? Hmm.

[Wild_Bill]

At a younger age, guys like Steve are biologically drawn to girls like Lindsey and as guys get older, they worry less about looks and more about well rounded personalities.

[lilill]

Unlucky, because girls like Lindsey are biologically drawn to guys that are better looking and with higher perceived social status than Steve

[Tideo568]

Lol , the only people condemn g the Lindsey’s behavior are the feminists. The rest of society dose not care about what she does.

THE REAL ISSUE: No one has the balls to ever tell Lindsey that she has to work in life. From a young age she is encouraged to play victim. People could have told Lindsey why modesty is important but they think ogling at tits and a$$ is more important. Since Lindsey has been taught her whole life men are the enemy , she is as confused as a child starting puberty about what men are life. She has been tricked into beliveing me want to compete with her and that there’s an imaginary patriarchy. People refuse to let Lindsey hold responsibility for her actions

[Wild_Bill]

That is hitting the nail on the head! Thank you.

It's pretty much the point of my post.

Unfortunately, there are men that enable and validate the behavior of girls who act this way.

[Lance1965]

The problem is people still judge based on first impressions and don't want to get to know anyone first. If there is no instant attraction then it means an automatic rejection. A lot of people are simply not given a chance so trying to date is largely a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

I see your point and say you are right till some point. But don't you think we are also guilty of this charge? I mean if Steve has a chance to choose between Lindsay and an average girl, which do you think Steve would choose?
I see your comments on GAG Instagram page I think, am I right?

[Wild_Bill]

Oh, all day long. I wouldn't bother with the one dimensional girls who can't hold a conversation about anything other than sex ( as an adult ).

I am married and I don't cheat. I get aggravated with these young girls who are not taught any manners and lack emotional and social intelligence.

Sorry I'm not sorry, If a man or women cannot interact with the opposite sex in a non sexual manner, they lack emotional, social, and sexual intelligence. As an adult, you have to be able to engage professionally and personally with everyone if you want to be successful in life.

I grew up having good female friends and nothing more. Sadly, this seems to be coming a way of the past. Up coming generations seem to be lacking in those realms and think on a 1 dimensional level.

It concerns me, because I have 2 young girls that I can already tell are going to be gorgeous. I want them to see what's wrong with the culture they are going to be surrounded by so they can rise above it.

[Anonymous]

I’m a bit like Steve. 6 figure income, own property, in very good shape, educated, interesting hobbies.

However I made a decision to retire from mma fighting to focus on my career a few years ago. I used to be deep in debt, directionless professionally and just scrapping by. But that old persona was MUCH MORE appealing to women than the older and more established me.

I want a wife and kids now and I talk to many women as possible. Most single women my age are psychos. I usually date younger women but they get bored quickly.

But I did the right thing by being independent. But it’s boring.

[AmericanMuscle]

Lindsey is literally every girl these days. They are only good for sex. Also the Feminist thing is stupid because she has to clean and cook for herself, the feminists have issue when the women is the ONLY one in a relationship who cooks and cleans. A woman who doesn't cook/clean for herself is mentally handicapped.

[bubbatxman]

People look at the outward beauty and ignore inner beauty. Vanity!

[mathgirl]

"He admittedly is awkward and shy around hot girls, so he dates girls of average/modest looks."

An average looking man has to settle for average looking women? You mean he doesn't get the supermodel he's obviously entitled to? OH THE INDIGNITY OF IT ALL!!!

[Raveagite]

Could it be that Steve isn't happy with Stephanie the female version of himself who is also awkward and of average looks...

It seems Steve also looks down on the Steve's of the world and isn't happy with them... That's some deep issues Steve...

[lilill]

The problem is that Steve shouldn't be chasing after Lindsey and go after girls in his own league, like Jessica who is cute in a homely kind of way, has a boring personality, but is nice and caring and will make a great wife.

I'm not a Jessica, nor a Lindsey by the way

[Wild_Bill]

That's where the problem lies. Today's society puts Lindsey out of Steve's league, but in reality Steve is out of her league. Steve just needs to grow balls, grasp that distinction, and put Lindsey in her place with a reality check.

[Raveagite]

... uhhh or Steve could ask himself why he's got all this disturbing anger and thinks that solving his issue some how is related to putting "Lindsay in her place" ... Not with going after the sweet girl she suggested... You're scaring me man...

[keenmind2007]

We all want what we can't have, but that doesn't mean we should settle for less. Neither should Steve.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

But the point was not that he was struggling to settle at all. It's that even with modest expectations he's still finding it hard. And obviously there's such a thing as impractical expectations.

[hasrett]

Steve might as well be God himself, Lindseys of this world would still have every right to reject him. She's not into him, for whatever reason. End of story.

[Anonymous]

Maybe men should stop expecting all women to be thin like Lindsey? Average and curvy body types (not overweight) are just as attractive. Be realistic with the type of women you go after and can actually date.

[Wild_Bill]

I could not agree with you more! The men that enable the behaviors of the Lindseys of the world are just as much to blame and part of the problem.

I'm so beyond sick and tired of shallow social bullshit intruding on my life. That's why I come on here to vent and complain about it.

[Anonymous]

I doubt the Lindsay’s are that successful in dating. Also the Steve’s are probably not that unsuccessful either. Where is the middle ground where most of us lie?

[Anon-ymous1]

Yawn.
The "pretty" boy isn't an asshole for wanting sex.

[Wild_Bill]

No, but they are assholes when the play games with women and visa versa.

[Anon-ymous1]

"Play games" does not exist.

[Raveagite]

Notice somehow every girl in this example is incapable and a mess and every guy with above average looks is a dbag because... Reasons...

What about Steve... If some of these people with above average looks are also well adjusted and financially capable with even better prospect's than you? Would your head just exploded that maybe someone out there is out of your league? Would it be too much for your ego to bear?

Smh some people just can't accept that their place in the world isn't that of a peerless good either throwing a fit... Stupid take muting

[Anon-ymous1]

@Raveagite Have no idea what on Earth you're talking about dude.

[Wild_Bill]

@Raveagite There is always going to be an upward and downward comparison. Sure, many men can't handle rejection well and throw temper tantrums. There are beautiful, well rounded, successful women who by all accounts are 10s reality.

That's literally not the point of this example. My example is referring to a sizable portion of young girls who don't have their shit together, think" they are "hot" but are awful in bed, and somehow delusionally believe they are God's gift to men.

[Anonymous]

Yeah no this is extremely generalising. If Steve really was like that, he would easily be able to find a girlfriend because he has a lot of admirable qualities that people love in a partner.

[Bluedream13]

Bravo my good sir, bravo. This shit is completely fucked. I expect nothing but I do hope...

[castratedwhiteguy]

That's why I go MGTOW. The dating scene is a superficial meat market.

[SketchForger]

I think is a little telling that most myTakes about how "dating culture is dead" are men in their mid 30-50s.