Are average guys just out of luck when it comes to LOVE?

[coachTanthony]

Are average guys just out of luck when it comes to LOVE?

Also... what can average guys do to increase their dating market value? Let us know below.

YES

NO

It depends

see poll

[englisc]

No, I don't think so. There are many things that an average guy can do to increase his success.

When it comes to dating market value:

1) Lift weights

Lifting weights is one of the easiest things a guy can do to improve his success. You don't need to be huge, just get into good shape.

2) Dress better

The average guy dresses like shit. Sometimes they try to dress well but they dress like children or they end up looking gay. Often they also wear clothes that don't fit well.

3) Get a better job. This is an obvious one that most people are already trying to do.

4) Have hobbies if you don't have any. Some kind of sport, martial arts, music, art, outdoor stuff. Whatever you think you'd be genuinely interested in.

Basically you can become slightly above average looking and be viewed as more of a catch if you have other stuff going for you. The average guy works a boring 9-5 job, goes home and watches TV, maybe plays video games, and maybe goes out for a drink at the weekend.

In general though I think that too many guys today focus on "status". Men are naturally more logical than women and this is just an example of that, and I think it's a projection of the male way of thinking onto women. A proper understanding of women and female nature helps a lot, and that means snapping out of this mindset.

It's a bit of an autistic way to look at it too, like some guys think that everything is math. A man has to earn a certain number, a man has to be a certain height, a certain number of men have sex with a certain number of women.

It seems logical that women would want a guy with those things, however attraction doesn't always fit that kind of logic. When I first met my girlfriend I was living at home and I didn't have much money because I'd just quit my old job and started a business. At the time I was driving a beat up little van that cost me £500. Before dating me, she'd gone on a date with a rich guy who showed up wearing designer clothes and drove a brand new sports car. She ended up with me instead.

Autistic red-pillers would be baffled by the above because like I said, they think too logically with everything being math. Women think more emotionally than men do. That guy was higher in status than me, but he was unable to make her FEEL attraction, and the reason she ended up with me despite this was because I was able.

As StingRayxoxo said in her comment average looking guys can have better personalities, be funnier, intelligent, more likeable etc. A girl who isn't just a gold-digger is more likely to choose a man with these traits over a good looking rich guy who does nothing but try to impress her with his money and things, but who otherwise is quite boring or maybe even a bit of a dick. Because those things she mentioned have to do with the way the guy makes her feel.

You've mentioned in response to someone else that women don't NEED men anymore, and I assume that what you mean by this is that women don't need a man to provide for them. This is true. Maybe using things such as wealth worked better in the past than it does now because of this.

Now it's more about emotions. Not so much being this overly sensitive, kiss-ass "nice guy" who "shows her that he cares" with romantic gestures and whatnot. But a guy who is confident, who can make her laugh, perhaps challenge her a little bit, tease her, create sexual tension etc. This is what game is basically.

This is why "bad boys" win over "nice guys" who according to the whole "status" idea should do better on paper. It's not because they're better looking or earn more money and make better long term partners, it's just that their "not giving a fuck" behaviour creates more of an emotional reaction for the girl.

You don't have to be a "bad boy" to succeed, but just understand that it's less about the logical stuff.

[coachTanthony]

average looking guys can have better personalities, be funnier, intelligent, more likeable etc.

This is true and myself and my clients are proof of that. The problem is it's only a fraction of what is really going on out there. Most average guys don't have better personalities, have a sense of humor, or are more intelligent.

Most average guys don't think they have to improve or even get to that level. They just think because they are a MAN they should be able to have anything they want with no effort. And when that happens to not come true then soak 100% of their energy into MGTOW.

Which is fine by me. That is where they belong.

Great comment... great detail. Much appreciated!

[Robertcw]

Annnd rep pill saves the day. Honestly, we need more red pill guys out helping black pill guys.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

I don't agree with the men who have the "don't think they have to improve" mindset.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Average guys belong with average girls, its as simple as that
Most guys when they are young have an idea girl in mind, but they aren't able to get her, because she is out of their league

Men need to have realistic expectations when dating. I am average, and I dont have too many problems when it comes to finding love.

[coachTanthony]

You really make pizza?

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Not anymore, but I used to. Right now I make Gyros, Shwarma, and halal food

[coachTanthony]

Love me some good shawarma!

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Yeah man, I got all the street foods mastered at this point. I even worked in a taco truck a few years ago haha.

[coachTanthony]

I have always wanted to run a food truck. I once went to Ohio University and they had a bake bean food truck. Basically a hot dog bun with baked beans, bacon, mustard, and cheddar cheese was their staple. The lines were endless. I was like.. baked beans? Really? but it was good.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Food trucks are tough. Originally our taco truck was a hot dog truck, but all the workers in the area were mexican.
So I convinced my boss to let me make tacos. It worked out for 3 months, but I quit because the conditions sucked.
We didn't have the logistics down. You need a good business model to make it worth it.

[coachTanthony]

Yeah no doubt! Makes sense to me.

[purplepoppy]

I don't follow your logic. Most people fall in the average category and simply observation proves most of us average people don't have problems finding partners. We'd have countless average single men chatting to single women about how they never meet single people.

[coachTanthony]

Women are much more successful these days and don't really need MEN to be honest. So of course their standards and expectations are much higher now. Average women are not going for average guys. They feel as if they deserve a much higher status guy now and let's face it they can afford to be picky.

Women have great careers, great social lives, and certainly aren't going to settle anymore for the average guy.

[StingRayxoxo]

Not at all. I tend to think average looking guys have better personalities-- funnier, more intelligent, and generally more likeable.
Are average looking women out of luck?

[coachTanthony]

Average looking women are scoring 9's and 10's. They are successful, they have their own life, their own social life... average looking women today aren't going for the average looking guys. This is why I am trying to shine the light here... men need to step up it's a different era.

[StingRayxoxo]

To clarify, do you mean that average women are seeking and scoring 9-10 looking men? Or the women themselves score higher because of those factors you mentioned?
by the way, when I was single, I preferred average looking guys.

[coachTanthony]

Well both. Average women who have a great career, great social life, who are an all around great catch are YES scoring men that are 9's and 10's. Men who are 9's and 10's don't want HOT, coke addicted, gold digging floosies. It's a myth that they do.

[Logorithim]

A woman who has a great career and the rest of what @coachTanthony describes is not merely average, even if her looks are. She's above average and that is why she doesn't want to settle for an average guy, who is not average because of his looks.

[coachTanthony]

@Logorithim You ain't wrong. The point I am trying to make is that most men who are average don't see an average woman in looks any higher just because she has a great career and an awesome social life. Only the 9's and 10's can appreciate that. That is what needs to change.

[Logorithim]

They absolutely should though. I'd rank a woman with a great career much higher than a very attractive woman with poor earnings prospects.

[coachTanthony]

@Logorithim Well you are ahead of the bell curve. Most Men are not. Looks are 99% of what they care about and judge themselves based on just that. It's sad but true.

[Logorithim]

I don't doubt it. My sister is a doctor married to another doctor so I've seen how this works.

[ChiTown33]

@Logorithim lost in all this is length of time together.
I don't look at women with a checklist. And i would steer clear of any woman that would. I'm not a revenue stream, i'm not a social status symbol, i'm not a nanny, and i'm not an accessory. What i am is a man of my word. I don't have all the answers but i never quit searching for them. I'm blue collar raised, and will always be blue collar regardless of my financial situation.
These women coach talks about i'm sure they find the guy they're looking for and i'm sure she checks a lot of hos boxes as well but the minute he finds a woman that is a better fit he moves on. And sometimes she does as well.
I'm sure these people will have a lot of "successful" relationships. They may even marry a few times. And if that is what we deem as success in this world than i want no part of it. :)

[Tannhauser]

Absolutely not, average women tend to be more humble and intelligent, which are both attractive traits.
And not to mention, plenty of smart and beautiful women think of themselves as "average"

[Logorithim]

Of course it's harder than for "above average" guys, but there are plenty of possibilities for them as well.

[Logorithim]

They can get in better shape, become a more well-rounded person or improve their financial situation.

[SueShe]

No, nobody serious would ever say something like that.

You just must not rely on the answers here on GAG where a lot of people post just anything and where trolling is the game.

I just hate this term "market value". You, just like me, are not objects that you put a value on. You have a personality and it is up to you to make the most out of it.

Average looking guys can get superb looking girls without having a full wallet or be famous. It all lies in the character and how this character is perceived by the opposite sex.

Since you put a value on yourself, then go out on the market, take a marketing course and know how to sell yourself to those that have ignored you till now.

[Unit1]

You are at it again 😊 i love that!

[SueShe]

@Unit1 thanks

[Unit1]

You have my full support, young lady! 😀

[SueShe]

@Unit1 you're very welcome (still) young lad!

[Unit1]

You are one of my favorite young ladies since you mentioned being so privacy oriented and career oriented 😀😀😀

[SueShe]

@Unit1 111000000111101100000111000111100000 ;-)

[Unit1]

01101001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100011 01101001 01110000 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00101110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01101101 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01110000 01100001 01100100 01100100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 00100000 00111000 00100000 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 01110011

01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01110010 01110101 01100101 00101110 00100000 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101101 01101001 01110100 01110100 01100101 01100100 00101110

[SueShe]

@Unit1 I disagree but we are not supposed to agree on everything, are we?

[SueShe]

@Unit1 I have my issues with the "carnal pleasures" part of it.

[Unit1]

Sure thing!

[Miss_Savanna_Dry]

It depends the way they carry themselves. If they cry in a corner saying why does nobody love me then girls will be turned off by that. But if they carry themselves with confidence and not let rejection get to them, girls will notice and some might be interested then. Oh and most average looking guys I know are either in a relationship or married. It all comes done to how they carry themselves, girls will even then view them attractive and not even average.

[RetroAlpha]

The very definition of the word "average" basically means "most of us".

According to science, there are around 7 billion people on Earth, from a population of around 10,000, after the YD Impact event...

That means there are a whole lot of women boning "average" guys, because Ghengis Khan isn't related to everyone :)

I'm average, I think - I'm in better shape than average, but I'm aging, my face is crooked from years of violence as a kid, and I have a tiny chip in one of my incisors... It has never stopped me from finding love - for one night, or 3000 of them in a row.

[Dopayou]

Had to sure my honest opinion in this. It's actually average girls out of luck since attractive guys won't go for them and even average guys funny right. It goes like this all types of guy are attracted to attractive girls and attractive girls are only attracted to attractive guys (only in movies they attracted to average looking its like a best-case scenario thing lol ) and all types of women are attracted to money (which can get you any girl most girls will deny this but I call bs). my friend is average looking and he also keeps complaining why he can't get a girl when he only got eyes for attractive girls even when there are other, girls, eyeing him I notice it a lot he just doesn't care about them.

[anon1903]

personality wise, they've a higher chance in finding love. looks just keeping dragging people back to lust. average people just have a hard time entering the dating feild, once they're settled they score in long term!!

Just saying, I myself look cute😃😘

[anon1903]

I think its a good thing, since guys who confessed to me I'm sure are after my curves and looks😩 As a average looking, at least you can be sure people are attracted to more than that aspect of yours

[Anonymous]

Absolutely.
Or how will you explain, that 80% of women pursue the top 20% of men?

What the average guys can do? Earn over 6 figures salary. Then try again. They'll come around like mosquitos.

Until then just forget about love and girlfriends. These are not real. It's like Santa Claus! They are too good to be true.

[coachTanthony]

Average guys? How about BE BETTER.

[Opinion Owner]

BETTER HOW are you suggesting?
The most effective way to BE BETTER is making a ton of money!

Make no mistake. Comparing yourself to others is an insult.

[coachTanthony]

When guys see this chart they think well I can't reach that level. You don't have too you just have to be better then the guy next to you. Go workout, get a haircut, get some nice clothes, work on your passion and purpose in life.

it's not black and white.

[Opinion Owner]

I do most of that already.
And I did say, that comparing yourself to the others is insulting.
But some of them will come around for sure when I have something to offer... materialistically. Just not right now.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

Isn't there a bit more opportunities for earning that much money today?
You may not realize it, but I kind of see it that way.

[Opinion Owner]

@UncleJessieRabbit money is everything.
Women will be attracted to men with money like mosquitos.
And if you can't find one in one area, then you just move to another place and find one there.

[AcidT0y]

I feel like a lot of the guys who are having no luck are in that situation because they're only going after the kind of girls they can't get.

It's not so much about "market value" as it is about knowing your market

[coachTanthony]

That would mean going below the market value. Because average girls nowadays who have a great career, great social life, and are being snagged up by 9's and 10's. Because 9's and 10's don't want the gold digger, coke addicted floosies that everybody thinks they do.

Times have changed and women have more power over who they attract more then ever.

[AcidT0y]

I wouldn't consider a girl with a great career and a great social life to be average. Not where I live at least. Average here is more like works in retail and has less than 3 kids xD

[coachTanthony]

Well I would describe what you are saying as below average. Women who have children can still have everything I mentioned and still attract a 9 or a 10. Average guys have their work cut out for them.

[AcidT0y]

I can see what you're saying. I've been pretty lucky in that sense. I'd say I'm pretty average but I've had a lot of right bar on the right night kind of situations. Outside of that it can be a lot of work sometimes to get someone good

[coachTanthony]

You haven't been lucky. If you are successful with women then you are not average. Saying you are average makes the real average guys feel even more stupid. Don't do that. Average guys "like you" who have figured some stuff out should shout it from the roof tops to help others.

Most guys who are average wouldn't consider you one.

[RationalMale]

It seems a lot of people are average.

But most people can improve. Work out, dress well, get a good haircut, practice talking and approaching girls and being interesting.

[coachTanthony]

I agree. Problem is average guys think they are entitled to average looking women. Average looking women now command the attention of men who are 9's and 10's. Can't seem to get through to these guys that times have changed.

So instead of doing what you say.. they just complain on the internets! As Al Gore would say.

[SvanUlf]

So, basically, average guys need to wake up and realize nobody is entitled to the attention of another person?

[coachTanthony]

@SvanUlf Well that is true for everyone. Average men though have been doing just fine with other average women for decades. Times have changed. Better wake up.

[RationalMale]

Kinda like how women think they are entitled to get a date just because they put out... Its too funny.

[RationalMale]

So are male 9's and 10's now dating plain janes and female 9's and 10's left with average guys? 😂 you're drunk go home.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

"Problem is average guys think they are entitled to average looking women."
Not really "entitled" because the guy is average looking himself. That part is rather dumb.

[Liam_Hayden]

I'm average and I do fine. Of course, I have great and happy attitude. If you go out there with a defeatist or desperate attitude then yeah, you are probably sunk.

[coachTanthony]

Totally agree!

[Y3llow]

No, I actually go for average guys 90% of the time. Simply because I find that a lot of really attractive guys feel like they don't have to try very hard and put in much effort because their looks make up for it. But in reality I don't care who's more attractive, I'm going for the man who treats me better.

[Kby_A]

Because they’re accesible to you, so their value increases artificially for you. That’s simply how it goes.

[J2ohhhhh]

Being average is a choice. Nobody was born to sit 8 hours in the office then go home to watc tv shows and having a social life discussing TV shows, talking about fucking food colouring or whatever other passion they have.

[Robertcw]

I like that man. ‘Average is a choice.’

[CandacePerry]

It all depends on a woman is or isn't attractive to male. I prefer shorter guy since I they quieter and will probably have a learning disability. My current boyfriend is shorter and I like it better than average man. I only had a relationship with one guy and he was too busy.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

"will probably have a learning disability"
You are stereotyping short men. Don't do that.

[CandacePerry]

So what. You are nor be so I can do what I. Guys that to snow. I didn't comment that all short guys have learning disabilities. Most of my guys that I have met in uk. Some of them all have a learning. Thanks being a idiot.

[CandacePerry]

Not me

[CandacePerry]

Snowflake

[infinitybreaker2018]

Feels like it to me. I'd say I'm average, and I struggle to get dates...

[coachTanthony]

I struggle to get dates too but I am way above average. The two have fucking nothing to do with each other. You decide what kind of man you are.

[infinitybreaker2018]

I know I'm a good person and a good man. But I find the shittiest women...

[coachTanthony]

You attract who you FEEL you are. You feel you are average so your brain makes sure you sabotage yourself with crappy women. Self worth is key to getting everything you want.

Women can smell it on you.

[infinitybreaker2018]

Then I dunno what I feel. I mainly attract mormon girls who want to convert me. But the last girl I dated, she just led me on and treated me like garbage because she wasn't over her ex.

[coachTanthony]

Nobody attracts MORMON GIRLS. Pay attention.

The best daters do one thing that is better then the losers who can'f figure it out. That is they cut off the fucking idiots with red flags before they can become stories like yours. The girl didn't lead you on... you allowed her in your life too long knowing there were red flags. Take ownership of who you are and your choices. No woman can DO ANYTHING to you unless you let them. Women don't treat men like garbage. It doesn't happen. Men allow women to treat them like garbage. There is a big difference.

Get some standards and fucking stick to them and never let this stupid shit happen again. understand?

[infinitybreaker2018]

Yes sir

[coachTanthony]

I was 32 before I learned this lesson. I didn't have the internet to go to. embrace the advice you can get online. It will save you a lot of heart ache.

[ChiTown33]

Why ask this question if your mind is already made up?
I mean i could tell you "some are, yes" but you'll just tell me i'm wrong. That the guy can, he just needs to change completely who he is. I'll disagree and say any woman that expects a guy to do that is a woman a guy can do without. We'll squabble a bit you'll tell me you're wasting your time and that will be the end of the exchange.
So we'll just save time and pretend like i didn't even respond :)

[coachTanthony]

You ARE WRONG Sir. I don't squabble. Thank you for your comments.

[es20490446e]

https://youtu.be/TlZXOa7d9Oc

[coachTanthony]

Thanks for the video response! Do you not own a shirt? Asking for a friend?

[es20490446e]

https://youtu.be/RWkvThl1zSo

[coachTanthony]

I just checked out your Youtube channel. Very cool you can speak different languages. Where are you if I may ask?

[es20490446e]

https://youtu.be/byaPp9_V4nY

[coachTanthony]

You are lucky you didn't tell me. I was about to hunt you down and give you a couple of T-shirts. Ha

[es20490446e]

https://youtu.be/QrfZCV1YxJQ

[crazy8000]

You have never thought of that over average females are usually damaged goods on the inside that repulse the same exterior looking males.

Have seen that those goes for those that are as fucked up because they can't get better (they have to settle for what they can get not what they want with a pinch of self destructiveness) .

[GraveDoll]

I hardly doubt it.

I like to think it not even the looks that are truly taking into account if a guy has the grit that put him at the top of the line.

[Kby_A]

The average boy gets the ugly girl because of female hypergamy and because of the high demand of males so they got the choice and their nature encourage them to pair up with someone better than them. So yes, the average boy is unlucky when it comes to dating.

[UncleJessieRabbit]

What are a few pictures of what you personally consider "ugly girl"?

[cth96190]

MGTOW monk, then enjoy the schadenfreude when the females are ejected from the carousel, so go looking for ‘good men’ to marry them.
Those would be the same good men who were too ‘boring’ or not ‘exciting’ enough for the females when they were 20.