When are you obligated to go from stage 1 of seeing lots of guys to moving to stage 2 and committing on one?

[Child_Of_Dust]

Presently, I'm in stage 1 of meeting guys for coffee without commitment. Guys I'm interested in, I'll continue going for coffee and getting to know them. I have been telling them I prefer to take things slow and get to know who I'm with for about 6 months before making a decision on dating. They seem to understand.

BUT here is the catch: I find after the first few dates guys want to start holding hands, ask for hugs, want to couch cuddle while watching a movie. This causes emotional bonding. It sorta creates a non-verbal singular commitment. I think this happens because people are lonely and starved for physical connection.

Right now there are two guys I'm interested in and want to get to know as friends on coffee dates. The first guy, though, has been more physical (holding hands, hugs, cuddling on couch) which makes it complicated when I want to also continue to get to know the second guy. Now it is getting to the point where it is difficult to reverse the physical with the first, but it might be the ultimate answer to this conundrum. Likely, those three things probably shouldn't have been started in the first place.

What are your guys' thoughts? Does hand-holding, hugs, and cuddles mean that much to a guy?

[Shamalien]

Look do whatever ya want, but in my opinion, seeing many people at the same time, once you’re at the third date, pick one. It’s not like you’re getting married. Date em and really get to know em

[Child_Of_Dust]

Three dates isn't enough to get to know someone. It takes more like 3 to 4 months. I don't have all day or year to get to know one person at a time. It makes sense to keep the doors open and keep meeting and networking as the long-term, then choose at the end of it. The last time I chose someone after the first 3 dates, it was 4 months later I noticed he was a red flag. At that point there was so much commitment and bonding placed into the relationship, it ended up being drawn out another year before the break up finally happened. It would have been way better to have remained friends for those 4 months, despite really liking each other, and not starting a relationship until I actually knew who I was dating.

[Shamalien]

Alright good luck with that strategy, you’re gunna miss out on a ton of potential dudes that could have been great by the signals you are sending. If a girl isn’t interested in any physical contact at all by the third date, guess who’s gunna look for another woman? That’s right, the dude. I’m not gunna be friendzoned while you’re off getting busy with some other dude. Fuck that

[Child_Of_Dust]

Exactly, my strategy filters out guys who are non-committal. I want someone who actually likes me for who I am, and not simply after the physical. This only comes through a guy who is interested in getting to know me. It is also a way of me showing respect to a guy by not wanting to move into anything without knowing him for who he is. The guys I date are not necessarily guys who are surrounded by women 24/7. They are also guys you sorta 'stumble into', pop-in to see each other when time allows. They tend to what serious long-term relationships that won't result in divorce and having half their possessions lost. Guys who are really successful with their careers have more to lose and are increasingly careful. My only thing, is I can't come across as a player. They need to know once they have my commitment, it is 100% in to the end. But the ground work and care needs to be put into place first. Ie, I need to know who I am dating. Three dates don't cut it. That is equivalent to dating a stranger. It is like rolling dice and choosing to commit prior to knowing if you had hit a six, but chances are it won't happen. If someone is a six, they have to prove it to me. I also think it is fair for me to prove to them I'm a six. This comes with taking the time to get to know each other and being open.

[Shamalien]

Look, women are our there friendzoning guys all the time, if you give no physical indicators that you’re attracted to us we are going to see you as a friend, and most guys looking to date are not looking for friends. You are gunna filter out lots of men that shouldn’t be filtered out. You will be left with only the most desperate low self esteem men

[Child_Of_Dust]

That's a pretty good argument, I'll give you points for that one. I take it guys don't really like being friend-zoned, cause they'd rather have the girl than another missed opportunity. Here is another caveat though, when you are dating someone you don't know it could be several months before you find out the relationship doesn't really work. Maybe they live too far out of town. Maybe they are too busy. etc. Guys and girls are often on their best behaviour when they first meet, this facade can normally be kept up only for 4 months or so. Going completely exclusive with a stranger after the third date may also lead to missed opportunities since you don't actually know who you are seeing. I find the first few months of seeing someone as being risky and not a good time to go exclusive.

[Shamalien]

You are correct, it can lead to missed opportunities and not work out. That’s called taking a small risk, and if you aren’t willing to do that, any self respecting guy is gunna walk.

Facts.

[Child_Of_Dust]

Okay how about this strategy. The numero uno guy, allow primary-basic physical contact for the first 4 to 6 months, while continuing to build only friendships with other guys I meet. After those 4 to 6 months have conversation with numero uno and decide whether a relationship is legit. If legit, whatever I got some guy friends and in a relationship. If relationship not legit, I still didn't lose any numbers. Since I'm presently not in a relationship, I'm not obligated with exclusivity, but technically I would still be meeting a non-verbal. I, personally, wouldn't expect numero uno to stop seeing other girls because there is no commitment between us.

[Shamalien]

Fuck that. So “numero uno” is supposed to be cool with you making “friends” (ya right, these are potential partners in your mind, backup plans) and there’s no exclusivity for 4-6 months? And these backup plan dudes who definitely have romantic interest in you are supposed to be okay with your “non exclusive” relationship with numero uno? Are you planning on telling any of these guys about eachother?

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. If after 3 dates you don’t wanna be exclusive, expect him to be looking for a girl who will. Plain and simple. Reality check.

[Child_Of_Dust]

The most successful relationships are with people you've known for the long-term. In a situation where you are meeting strangers, a psychopath could easily hide who he is for 4 to 6 months. I know people who got into abusive relationships with guys who hid their nature until the relationship went exclusive or to marriage, then the truth came out.

Within the first few dates, if I decide I want to keep seeing the person, I tell them I take things slow and am not interested in dating for the first 6 months because I'm still meeting and getting to know people. They tend to always agree. But I'm a very easy person to get to know and attached to. So things tend to naturally want to move forward which ends up in a hazy stage 1/2. I do always tell the people I'm with that I've met this or that person. I also encourage them if they meet other girls. It acts as a jealousy check as well. In my job 80% are guys. I always have foreman and whoever else flirt with me. But I think it is important for the person I eventually choose to date to know when I decide to commit, I'm 100% in and nobody can change that decision. When it comes to finding a for-life partner, you want to set the stakes high. I believe competition is a good thing, if he finds a girl that is better suited, great! I think people should have to prove themselves. The guy I'm seeing now, also wants to take it slow and really get to know me first as well before dating. A relationship is meant for exclusivity, but prior to being asked there shouldn't be any obligation. If he doesn't want me to meet other guys, then he can take me off the market. I think we both want to stay in stage 1 but our eyes are on stage 2.

[Shamalien]

Aight do it your way, I’m just saying that I’d never stick around to see where it goes with a girl like you, and any guy that does either has major self esteem issues or you are simply his backup plan. No self respecting dude will take you seriously when you act this way.

Plenty of low self esteem guys out there though so you can have your pick of the dumbest among them. I’m not saying sleep with him 3rd date, but there should either be exclusivity or not, and if not, his focus shifts elsewhere

[Child_Of_Dust]

So you're saying your not interested to have a girl want to take the time to actually get to know you, as who you are, and prioritize time to actually hear you out? So much so, she wouldn't want the physical aspect of hormones to get in the way of making the most of a friendship? So when you do date, you will have a 100% knowledge that this girl is completely committed and you know the relationship will work out, because not only are you guys good friends, you are now becoming great companions. You wouldn't have to worry about being vulnerable and have her trash it stomp on your pride or ego, because during the friend stage there was full honesty in getting to know each other person to person, and it was through that friendship came the realization that both of you get along really well. Not in the physical department, but in hobbys, interests, personality, cleanliness, etc. So when you finally do commit to anything physical, it is actually the icing on the cake. You know the relationship will work out with/ or without physical intimacy because you would be marrying your best friend. The time was taken to make the friendship legit. Out of how many different guys that were tested, this was the pair that made day to day life the fullest...

[Shamalien]

I am willing to get to know a girl and hold out on sex, IF she is not seeing anybody else. I am not going to hold out on hand holding, cuddling, and kissing for 6 months, and really no guy is UNLESS he’s busy with another girl. These are the facts. I’m not going to repeat myself again. Relationships are based around physical intimacy, that is the heart, the core. Sex is quite serious and smart women do hold out, but your approach is batshit, sorry, but it js

[Shamalien]

***is***

[Child_Of_Dust]

Yeah, except you are only describing a percentage of men raised according to a particular culture. I know tons of guys who held out and are not involved with other women. It depends upon what the guy prioritizes. I've seen lots of 'boys' try to convince girls they need sex, and tell them they won't get a guy otherwise, and it literally causes girls to lower their values to please what boys want. They end up sacrificing their sense of dignity to only being used. In my scenario, nobody gets used because everyone is being respected through with holding actions that cause pre-mature bonding before actually knowing who someone is as a person. The last thing I would want is to kiss a dude who turns out to be a complete loser and manipulator after the first few dates, just cause he is great at pretending. So Gross!!!

[Shamalien]

I agree with you on withholding sex, but I stand by my comments on your dating strategy. I think it’s not only stupid but dishonourable as well.

[Child_Of_Dust]

I've always done the friends things first. My system worked great. I think the problem is the present guy I am seeing, we hit it off really well, he initiated the physical, and that takes away from friendships. This goes against our conversation of taking things slow and not dating for the first 6 months. This is probably why I feel confused hanging out with other guys as I've always done until I'm in a committed relationship. I know sometimes guys push romance to loop a girl in for fear of losing her to other guys. This might be the case. -> Also could be a sign of a low self-esteem guy. The physical is sometimes a cover-up to avoid being vulnerable. This was definitely the case for a guy I knew last year.

Do guys stick around for me even though I'd prefer to keep things as friends? Without question. I think this proves the power of friendship. Some were low self-esteem guys, some were not. My system filters out the players who I don't want to spend time with.

I think chances are, between the two guys I'm interested now, I simply need to step back from the first since holding hands, cuddling, etc isn't really what I wanted. I think we were both lonely and made a Freudian slip (which we are both guilty of). But I'll talk to him and let him know to keep things as friends. Get to know each other first. See how things look in December for whether either of us are still single and still interested.

[RuthlessAggression]

When is it ever OK to see lots of men at once

Or are we calling that "just friends", LMAO

[Child_Of_Dust]

I'm calling it just friends with interests. Ie, both parties are interested in the other, but before jumping into anything, we are simply getting to know each other as friends. Cause when you just meet someone they always seem super great! It is 4 months down the road the truth comes out. So it is 4 months down the road is when a decision should be made whether to start a relationship, not after the third date.

[NathanDavis]

there is no such thing as "obligation"

people should be free to make their own choices... and if there's agreement between the two, good... it works

[Child_Of_Dust]

Once you are in an exclusive relationship, then there is an obligation to stick with only the person you are dating. If the person doesn't pull their weight and vice versa, than there is reason for discussion. If things are not sorted out, then it is break up time. At which, point, the individuals are free again to see who they like.

[NathanDavis]

you said "coffee without commitment" that is not an exclusive relationship

that's not even a relationship at all... it is just a coffee date

[Child_Of_Dust]

Yes exactly. That is the intention is for zero obligation. Though I'm finding the guy I'm seeing now is really into me, which makes it difficult to stay on my original projection. Perhaps that is part of the strategy? If you really like a girl who you don't want to lose, you may try to loop her in so she won't keep meeting other guys.

[NathanDavis]

I just do not think you can force something genuine...

commitment should happen naturally and it should come from both sides ideally

and not obligated as if it were some sort of contract