To have a discussion about what we "men" think are the traits that help define manhood.
The funny thing is, it isn't the women who resist this conversation at GaG. It is the males. And they can't even articulate why they are so resistant. Can you just spare just a couple of minutes to listen to Jack Donovan?
You are going to love it. It is hilarious. Deeply thought provoking, it really invokes these questions about being a man, what we consider to be masculine about ourselves.
It is weird that the alt-right loves the movie. But then again, most of them don't really know their heads from their asses.
If anything, it is going in the opposite direction. Most alt-right, incel, etc. types really dislike defining masculinity, talking about masculinity and dissecting masculinity.
"Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.
We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us."
What does Fight Club have to do with the alt-right? Again, the alt-right isn't very self-aware or self-reflective. That was the whole point of Fight Club. "We are a generation of men. . . raised by women."
The point of the movies was to reject these mundane roles that are assigned to men and pursue lives that are worthwhile and rewarding. That ain't the incel, alt-right nonsense. They want things given them because of their supposed status.
Fight Club was about empowerment and reclaiming our masculinity. A perfect example;
Yeah, so your point is that somehow the alt-right which wants to restore "White" males dominance at the center of American History, Culture, and Experience is the same as the Fight Club dudes who wanted to destroy all the shackles of modern society by destroying the credit system.
Uhm dude. . . those two goals are polar opposites.
And I quote;
Project Mayhem sets its sights on destruction. Sure, it's literal anarchy for a while, but after that, it has a purpose: Durden wants to blow up the credit card companies, undo the American Dream, and set everyone free from their debt.
The Alt-right don't know what they want I don't think. Altlt-right aren't racists, they are mostly rejecting Conservative/republican mainstream politics. There are many flavours of alt-right some reasonable and sensible and some crazy and racist, just the same as the alternative left in that there is some racism and antisemitism there.
Fight Club's portrayal of the paramilitary Project Mayhem represents a response to the feminization of America, and the portrayal is reminiscent of the creation of Nazism in response to the "decadent" Weimar Republic of Germany. In the film, the counter to the feminized male is a model of male that is "an identity-less, violent and destructively nihilistic cadre that intends to discipline a world gone too tolerant". The paramilitary members' processing of human fat from liposuction into designer soap is a Holocaust reference. The process surpasses in potency Soylent Green's premise of processing people into food. Dassanowsky writes, "it is not only possible and marketable in the real world, but the very concept of this postmodern self-improvement elitism derives from the most horrific inhumanity in human history."
The film's embodiment of the crisis of masculinity is former bodybuilder Bob Paulson, played by Meat Loaf. As a result of steroid abuse, Bob has lost his testicles, developed "bitch tits", and become estranged from his family. His body and spirit are crippled by failed modernity's science and technology. He embodies how traditional patriarchy is being lost and how his generation fears feminization. Dassanowsky summarizes
"Without his testicles and with female breasts Bob has become the extreme metaphor for middle-class, male-led panic in the postmodern era, a setting that features a recasting of the same factors of interwar German angst: dehumanization through (post) modernity and its technology: international economic and geopolitical instability; and lack of trust in social and political concepts and/or the national identity and role."
Paulson is killed accidentally while participating in one of Project Mayhem's "urban terrorist" operations. In his death, he becomes "a mythical icon" who receives his name back, having previously gone nameless like other members of the Project. The scenario retells how Nazi activist Horst Wessel's death by communist activists was exploited by the Nazi movement to portray Wessel as a fallen hero. Dassanowsky observes the effect of Bob's death and the response to it, "Mythology and the constructed enemy against which Bob perished in battle obscure the Fight Club's reactionary 'revolution.'"
Another member of Project Mayhem, Angel Face (played by Jared Leto), is disfigured by the narrator in Sadean destruction "of the 'normal' or ideal as sexual act". The disfigurement signifies how "there is no symbolic Other that is victimized or battles fascist oppression". The narrator himself is unable to recognize his actions as Tyler Durden. He attempts to rid himself of Durden, which is metaphoric of "the post-war trauma in dealing with fascist destruction". Fascism arises when humans fear inadequacy and losing social control. Audiences respond eagerly to the film's presentation of fascism, having a base desire "to experience the forbidden, to see the cornerstones of industry dynamited and collapse." Fight Club concludes with the narrator and his female companion watching Project Mayhem's successful detonation of buildings that hold credit card information to reset society's debt. Dassanowsky writes of the conclusion, "The ecstasy of a fresh start that can not be reversed... as the Narrator and [Marla] hold hands while the buildings sink, as potentially wish-fulfilling as any hyperthyroid promise Hitler may have made to a tired and bruised nation in 1933
What are your politics? My politics are about empowering the individual and allowing the individual to make what they see as the best choice. That’s all Fight Club was about. It was a lot of psychodrama and gestalt exercises that would empower each person. Then, ideally, each person would leave Fight Club and go on to live whatever their dream was — that they would have a sense of potential and ability they could carry into whatever it was they wanted to achieve in the world. It wasn’t about perpetuating Fight Club itself.
Honorable mentions; Fist of Legend, Posse, Training Day, Wall Street, Shane, Dirty Harry, Taxi Driver, Godfather II, Goodfellas, Tron, Wargames, Scarface, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, Braveheart, Casino Royale, Saving Private Ryan, Terminator, Road Warrior, Enter The Dragon, Reservoir Dogs, Blazing Saddles. . .
But honestly when i think of masculinity Kevin Spacey is one of the finest Hollywood actors i have seen. He delivered some of the mind blowing performances in movies like 21, The usual suspects, seven and not to forget the famous Frank Underwood from House of Cards ♠️
I don't like the Kingsman for this kind of list. I agree it was entertaining. But the Man from UNCLE? Maybe. And I could have included the Usual Suspects. I have to admit that one.
@mk200195 I can't remember which number/part rocky movie that is.. by the lettering instead of using a number with numbers hahah.. I actually have them all. I am in bed though. So can't look right now. I really like rocky 1 and 4 the best. I really dislike 5 a lot! I also don't really care for Sylvester Stallone except for rocky movies and Over the top. I also really like Keven Spacey-good looking heheehe and great at acting a natural.
@SandandWaves yeah i mean he's done a lot of movies which i enjoy and a lot of one's but i am myself not a huge fan of Rocky and Rambo movies. However, the last bit of the recent Rambo movie was definitely satisfying. All in all I don't really know what 'masculine movies' really are? Still confuses me. Is that defined by being macho or is it more about the class? Men are diverse in taste and needs and masculinity is the last thing they should be looking to define a movie. On that note i think we should add The Pursuit of Happyness as well. ( A beautiful father and a son relationship). And Kevin Spacey that guy is simply class apart. His work is precise and rich in technique showing both instinct and intellect.
But Rambo was a good guy flick. It really focused in on issues with men coming back from war overseas and not being able to fit into society.
Then after that it just became an action franchise.
Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can’t even hold a job parking cars!
Of course there are masculine traits. I just didn't know these were classified as "gUy mOvIeS". I was more asking why these are specifically guy movies. I've never heard of movies described that way and it threw me off.
I don't understand the issue with the labeling. We know their are traits we all consider to be masculine. If that is so, which movies do you think do a good job of displaying those traits?
I didn't say it was an issue. Just threw me off. There are masculine traits in the movies, but I don't understand how it would categorize as a "guy" movies. What's the spectrum of movies in relation to gender? Are there female movies too? When I think of movies for women, I usually think of chick flicks ig. But is there an in-between or?
In my opinion @kas19 and @RolandCuthbert, I do not think there are movies categorised for just guys or girls. Some girls really enjoy what people say are guy movies, and the same goes with guys really enjoy what people say are girl movies.
@SandandWaves I don't think you understand the point. It would be like saying I have never watched, "Precious" or "Miss Congeniality", etc.
You are being too literal. No one here would question does femininity exist and do women define it. But as soon as we start to talk about men and being masculine things get confused. When you reduce the conversation down to girls and guy movies, it becomes impossible to have a discussion about why men are attracted to these movies. It becomes impossible to talk about the masculine characteristics or traits we cherish, despise, or observe in these films.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
27Opinion
Too many to name and without ripping off your list, anything with Bruce Lee!
Hey, I would agree to that. I have Enter the Dragon on Honorable Mention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVgiu0p-qpU
I always thought was The Odyssey (tv movie) is the best love story for men.
Love story?
I guess you never watched it then.
You are talking about Odysseus. Of course, I read about it and watched the film.
But I wouldn't call it a guy movie.
I think it is. Don't know your definition.
You can think it is.
It doesn't break anything.
"guy movies" is just stupid.
What's "girl movies" then? Rom coms?
Oh goodness. One of these.
Come to my thread on masculine traits.
There you can pretend there is no way to define what is masculine.
What Are Masculine Traits? ↗
Nah, just asking for the definition of guy movies? Movies where these traits show up?
If there is a way to define what is masculine, surely there is a way to define which movies are examples of masculinity.
Gee Freaking Whiz. . .
And what's the end goal in that?
To have a discussion about what we "men" think are the traits that help define manhood.
The funny thing is, it isn't the women who resist this conversation at GaG. It is the males. And they can't even articulate why they are so resistant. Can you just spare just a couple of minutes to listen to Jack Donovan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-JWqHlKpU8
Nah i just wanted to know the point. And if that's the point them whatever.
Legit about to watch fight club for 1st time
You are going to love it. It is hilarious. Deeply thought provoking, it really invokes these questions about being a man, what we consider to be masculine about ourselves.
Your post reminded me I haven't seen it yet cheers. Yea I hear it hits deep.
Fight club is the poster child alt-right movie. I know a lot of extreme guys quote it. Love it.
It is weird that the alt-right loves the movie. But then again, most of them don't really know their heads from their asses.
If anything, it is going in the opposite direction. Most alt-right, incel, etc. types really dislike defining masculinity, talking about masculinity and dissecting masculinity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-JWqHlKpU8&t=190s
Makes sense to me.
"Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.
We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us."
What does Fight Club have to do with the alt-right? Again, the alt-right isn't very self-aware or self-reflective. That was the whole point of Fight Club. "We are a generation of men. . . raised by women."
The point of the movies was to reject these mundane roles that are assigned to men and pursue lives that are worthwhile and rewarding. That ain't the incel, alt-right nonsense. They want things given them because of their supposed status.
Fight Club was about empowerment and reclaiming our masculinity. A perfect example;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdwyAcJ8j2U
Yes. Then storm the capitol building
Yeah, so your point is that somehow the alt-right which wants to restore "White" males dominance at the center of American History, Culture, and Experience is the same as the Fight Club dudes who wanted to destroy all the shackles of modern society by destroying the credit system.
Uhm dude. . . those two goals are polar opposites.
And I quote;
Project Mayhem sets its sights on destruction. Sure, it's literal anarchy for a while, but after that, it has a purpose: Durden wants to blow up the credit card companies, undo the American Dream, and set everyone free from their debt.
The Alt-right don't know what they want I don't think. Altlt-right aren't racists, they are mostly rejecting Conservative/republican mainstream politics. There are many flavours of alt-right some reasonable and sensible and some crazy and racist, just the same as the alternative left in that there is some racism and antisemitism there.
Fight Club's portrayal of the paramilitary Project Mayhem represents a response to the feminization of America, and the portrayal is reminiscent of the creation of Nazism in response to the "decadent" Weimar Republic of Germany. In the film, the counter to the feminized male is a model of male that is "an identity-less, violent and destructively nihilistic cadre that intends to discipline a world gone too tolerant". The paramilitary members' processing of human fat from liposuction into designer soap is a Holocaust reference. The process surpasses in potency Soylent Green's premise of processing people into food. Dassanowsky writes, "it is not only possible and marketable in the real world, but the very concept of this postmodern self-improvement elitism derives from the most horrific inhumanity in human history."
The film's embodiment of the crisis of masculinity is former bodybuilder Bob Paulson, played by Meat Loaf. As a result of steroid abuse, Bob has lost his testicles, developed "bitch tits", and become estranged from his family. His body and spirit are crippled by failed modernity's science and technology. He embodies how traditional patriarchy is being lost and how his generation fears feminization. Dassanowsky summarizes
"Without his testicles and with female breasts Bob has become the extreme metaphor for middle-class, male-led panic in the postmodern era, a setting that features a recasting of the same factors of interwar German angst: dehumanization through (post) modernity and its technology: international economic and geopolitical instability; and lack of trust in social and political concepts and/or the national identity and role."
Paulson is killed accidentally while participating in one of Project Mayhem's "urban terrorist" operations. In his death, he becomes "a mythical icon" who receives his name back, having previously gone nameless like other members of the Project. The scenario retells how Nazi activist Horst Wessel's death by communist activists was exploited by the Nazi movement to portray Wessel as a fallen hero. Dassanowsky observes the effect of Bob's death and the response to it, "Mythology and the constructed enemy against which Bob perished in battle obscure the Fight Club's reactionary 'revolution.'"
Another member of Project Mayhem, Angel Face (played by Jared Leto), is disfigured by the narrator in Sadean destruction "of the 'normal' or ideal as sexual act". The disfigurement signifies how "there is no symbolic Other that is victimized or battles fascist oppression". The narrator himself is unable to recognize his actions as Tyler Durden. He attempts to rid himself of Durden, which is metaphoric of "the post-war trauma in dealing with fascist destruction". Fascism arises when humans fear inadequacy and losing social control. Audiences respond eagerly to the film's presentation of fascism, having a base desire "to experience the forbidden, to see the cornerstones of industry dynamited and collapse." Fight Club concludes with the narrator and his female companion watching Project Mayhem's successful detonation of buildings that hold credit card information to reset society's debt. Dassanowsky writes of the conclusion, "The ecstasy of a fresh start that can not be reversed... as the Narrator and [Marla] hold hands while the buildings sink, as potentially wish-fulfilling as any hyperthyroid promise Hitler may have made to a tired and bruised nation in 1933
I found this on wikipedia. It's close enough
Again, you are reading into the movies and what the writer meant. Maybe Wikipedia is a bad place to understand what Chuck Palahniuk was trying to do.
melmagazine.com/.../a-conversation-with-chuck-palahniuk-the-author-of-fight-club-and-the-man-behind-tyler-durden-2
What are your politics?
My politics are about empowering the individual and allowing the individual to make what they see as the best choice. That’s all Fight Club was about. It was a lot of psychodrama and gestalt exercises that would empower each person. Then, ideally, each person would leave Fight Club and go on to live whatever their dream was — that they would have a sense of potential and ability they could carry into whatever it was they wanted to achieve in the world. It wasn’t about perpetuating Fight Club itself.
The writer might have meant that but the guys in film are the same kinda guys that stormed the capitol recently
How about The Fast and Furious franchise
I could never get into them. I mean, I know certain folks love them.
Just not my bag.
Maybe something like “300”
I forgot 300!!!
Shit!!!
Lol...
Fight club , inception, the matrix and die hard 🤔
I was a little iffy on Inception.
And you're right and might want to add scarface 🤔
All in Honorable Mentions!
If I had the space, I would have done the top 50.
Oh yeah what are other movies in the list?
Honorable mentions; Fist of Legend, Posse, Training Day, Wall Street, Shane, Dirty Harry, Taxi Driver, Godfather II, Goodfellas, Tron, Wargames, Scarface, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, Braveheart, Casino Royale, Saving Private Ryan, Terminator, Road Warrior, Enter The Dragon, Reservoir Dogs, Blazing Saddles. . .
Hmmm I've never seen wall street and saving private Ryan I should check those out sometime
Absolutely. Wall Street with Martin Sheen and Michael Douglas.
Then Saving Private Ryan is just as Masterpiece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgHRj2-vvs8
The only reason I've haven't watched private Ryan is cause it's like 3 hours long but it's a classic for a reason
Worth every single second.
Ahh you missed Rocky I-V
Nah, I don't like the Rocky movies.
I don't think they are that well done. And I don't think they really focus on masculinity.
The flick I should have included was Raging Bull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fEIn_5OkoY
Kingsman: the secret service and there was another one The man from U. N. C. L. E
Ahh there can be a replacement for Italian actors. I like that one great taste
But honestly when i think of masculinity Kevin Spacey is one of the finest Hollywood actors i have seen. He delivered some of the mind blowing performances in movies like 21, The usual suspects, seven and not to forget the famous Frank Underwood from House of Cards ♠️
I don't like the Kingsman for this kind of list. I agree it was entertaining. But the Man from UNCLE? Maybe. And I could have included the Usual Suspects. I have to admit that one.
@mk200195 I can't remember which number/part rocky movie that is.. by the lettering instead of using a number with numbers hahah.. I actually have them all. I am in bed though. So can't look right now. I really like rocky 1 and 4 the best. I really dislike 5 a lot! I also don't really care for Sylvester Stallone
except for rocky movies and Over the top. I also really like Keven Spacey-good looking heheehe and great at acting a natural.
@SandandWaves yeah i mean he's done a lot of movies which i enjoy and a lot of one's but i am myself not a huge fan of Rocky and Rambo movies. However, the last bit of the recent Rambo movie was definitely satisfying. All in all I don't really know what 'masculine movies' really are? Still confuses me. Is that defined by being macho or is it more about the class? Men are diverse in taste and needs and masculinity is the last thing they should be looking to define a movie. On that note i think we should add The Pursuit of Happyness as well. ( A beautiful father and a son relationship). And Kevin Spacey that guy is simply class apart. His work is precise and rich in technique showing both instinct and intellect.
But Rambo was a good guy flick. It really focused in on issues with men coming back from war overseas and not being able to fit into society.
Then after that it just became an action franchise.
Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can’t even hold a job parking cars!
Why are these guy movies? I'm confused.
You are kidding.
Is there a such thing as masculine traits?
What Are Masculine Traits? ↗
Of course there are masculine traits. I just didn't know these were classified as "gUy mOvIeS". I was more asking why these are specifically guy movies. I've never heard of movies described that way and it threw me off.
I don't understand the issue with the labeling. We know their are traits we all consider to be masculine. If that is so, which movies do you think do a good job of displaying those traits?
I didn't say it was an issue. Just threw me off. There are masculine traits in the movies, but I don't understand how it would categorize as a "guy" movies. What's the spectrum of movies in relation to gender? Are there female movies too? When I think of movies for women, I usually think of chick flicks ig. But is there an in-between or?
movie*
In my opinion @kas19 and @RolandCuthbert, I do not think there are movies categorised for just guys or girls. Some girls really enjoy what people say are guy movies, and the same goes with guys really enjoy what people say are girl movies.
@SandandWaves I don't think you understand the point. It would be like saying I have never watched, "Precious" or "Miss Congeniality", etc.
You are being too literal. No one here would question does femininity exist and do women define it. But as soon as we start to talk about men and being masculine things get confused. When you reduce the conversation down to girls and guy movies, it becomes impossible to have a discussion about why men are attracted to these movies. It becomes impossible to talk about the masculine characteristics or traits we cherish, despise, or observe in these films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUp6d79WRVI
Top Gun?
Oh shit!!!
Yeah, I forgot that one.
How can I forget. . . ?
"Talk to me goose!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-xi_gUsQg
how about the movie... Days of thunder... ahh.. really good one
@SandandWaves. . . er. . . so so. Not my bag.
al.. right
The lack of edgar wright movies is disappointing
Don't really know his work.
Hands down the Rocky movies
Maybe the first one. The rest of them sucked.
I big-time disagree
OH, I know you do.
That whole scene when Stallone beats Dolph in Russia. . . when at the end, the Russians storm the ring and cover him in the American flag?
Haha!!!
I am sure you were like. . . this is real life!!!
Why are you such a Rocky hater? Ronin Puts me to sleep You got to be kidding too think that was an awesome movie you have awful taste.
So the first flick was a masterpiece. . .
But somehow I am a Rocky hater.
I guess that makes sense. . . somewhere. . .
just not in this universe.
After the first one you said they all suck but yet you watched everyone of them you don’t make any sense.
Rocky 3 rocked like Van Halen
I didn't see this.
WTF?
I did not watch every Rocky film. After 4 it was too fucking much. It was just stupid.
Terminator 2
I have to admit T2 was a better movie. I kind of question Terminator a little because of the prominence of Sarah Connor.
But she was pretty masculine so I let it slide.
I'll go with Heat (1995) & Apocalypse now (1979)
Oh shit. . . I forgot all about "Heat"!
1. The Dark Knight
2. Joker
Joker is a maybe.
But Dark Knight? Yeah I should have added that to honorable mentions.