What do you think about how 'strong female characters' are being portrayed now in books and media?

[AmyHew1tt]

I'm an avid reader, and also movie watcher when I find something that grabs my interest, but something that's coming up repeatedly is bothering me a lot.

The so-called 'strong female characters.' Strong as in cut-throat, bad-ass, can fight four bad guys at once and still have perfect hair, flawless deliverer of witty comebacks, epic man-butt kicker.

I don't mind the odd James-bond-esque female character, but I'm gradually finding them tiring and really hard to relate to. There seems to be some social pressure, especially around woman authors, to write their girl characters as rebelling against almost anything traditionally feminine as possible, and yeah. . . as someone who writes and is decidedly not anti-traditionally feminine things, to me lots of the stuff churned out nowadays is just not fun or even inspiring anymore.

Basically, they've taken all the traits we see as 'toxic' from the male characters, such as stoicism, aggression, dominating personality, etc, and put them on the women. Suddenly, they're not 'toxic' anymore, which is so annoying to me.

It also feels contradictory. So much of the media is telling girls 'you're perfect, accept your flaws, you're a queen even if you cry when you see a dead animal on the side of the road.' But on the other hand, we're shown, 'bitch you aren't perfect unless you're literally, check-the-box perfect.'

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this, and I'd be interested to hear yours. If you do like those characters, obviously, that's fine. Everyone has different tastes. I'm not judging yours. (Not that much.)

[MrOracle]

What you are describing is what big corporations call ESG, HR departments and colleges call DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion), and what normal people call Wokism.

There has been a big push, greatly accelerated in 2016 in response to Trump being elected, to push the WOKE agenda, even at the expense of the product or the revenue of the company. All that mattered was The Agenda.

But more and more, people are rejecting this and are voting against WOKE with their wallets. Companies that have gone woke have lost massive sales, though most publicly blame those lost sales on anything else they can think of - COVID being a popular scapegoat. But investors are finally panicking in big numbers, and as much as Blackrock and State Street and other massive investment companies want to push the WOKE agenda, the companies who have been are facing financial ruin.

Those wheels turn slowly, especially when the news goes against the agenda, but most companies, faced with bankruptcy, will choose to abandon WOKISM to save themselves. Some will refuse to give it up and will crash into the ground at full speed, but most will fire their WOKE board members and try to save the company, and their investments.

But understand that Blackrock and State Street don't care about the financial losses - they are the ones pushing the agenda and will happily destroy their investors' money to keep pushing it. For them, it stopped being about money and started being about control a long time ago.

[AmyHew1tt]

I agree, it's so, so stupid.

[MrOracle]

The word you are looking for is EVIL.

[abc3643]

There are plenty of female characters who are strong yet still distinctly feminine.

Look at Ellen Ripley, the central character in the "Alien" movies.

Ellen Ripley was the original strong female character and one of the most important characters in film history.

There was nothing unfeminine about her, she just got tough when the chips were down. James Cameron always loved strong female characters which is why, when he made "The Terminator" and "Terminator 2", he created Sarah Connor to be a strong woman. He ended up marrying the lead actress, Linda Hamilton, although they later divorced. He also wanted to make "Aliens" and extended Ellen Ripley making her tougher and yet not once made her unfeminine. Indeed, a significant understory was her becoming Newt's de facto mother. Newt was the 8-year old girl who survived the alien slaughter of the colonists. We didn't know in the original release, but in the "special edition", we discover that, while Ellen Ripley was in hypersleep for 57 years, her 11-year old daughter grew up and died shortly before Ellen was resurrected. So, Ellen lost her only child and that anguished her. This is why Newt became so important to her.

If you think about it, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were tough because they made it their job to protect others... and the future... Their children... all future children. That is so primal. Strong, but still feminine.

[abc3643]

[AmyHew1tt]

I agree there are some, but for the most part these days, they all seem to share the same base.
I've never actually watched Alien. Would you recommend it then?

[abc3643]

Yes, "Alien" is considered a great movie. Just look at the opening titles and sequence which was fucking scary seeing in movie theaters in the summer of 1979.

Watch these full screen with the lights off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C106qUJx8VY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2p3pM0NKg

Here's the opening for "Aliens"...
Even more ominous...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SNuPBWC81I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMkV_NkiZjE

As for current movies, keep in mind, most of these movies are being written by men so the strong female characters are often written as men who just happen to have boobs and vaginas.

[CheeseMonster]

I think it's been a mixed bag. There's been movies like Everything Everywhere All at Once, which star great "strong female characters" who are actually strong personalities with flaws who grow and overcome obstacles. These movies and the characters are great, even without considering gender. But it is refreshing to see more women in those roles.

Then you have ones like the live action Mulan who, like you say, must be perfect immediately and permanently and make every man look incompetent. But this isn't a "strong female character," it's just a Chosen One trope. People just notice it a lot more when there's a woman playing the chosen one, because they have to be so much stronger so much faster than men chosen ones to be taken seriously (or so writers apparently assume).

I've only found two movies with strong women main casts so far: EEAIO and Annihiation. But I'm looking for more. I like movies that have mostly women and you hardly notice because you're enjoying the movie. But there aren't many majority-women movies even, and it's especially hard to find ones in genres that I like.

[AmyHew1tt]

How did you know I was thinking about Mulan? Jk. But yes. Marvel movies too, for me, I find don't have the best female characters. I get why people like them, but at the same time they're just annoying to me.

[CheeseMonster]

I know what you mean. Marvel in general has started mixing light banter too much with serious situations for my taste. I feel like none of the characters take anything seriously except themselves, if that makes sense. Although they do have good plots and I like the character arcs. I wish they would go all in with the tone more often.

[Tyrael]

I feel much the same way. And whenever they have one of these strong female characters, they have to double down and write the male characters as dumb as shit.

Why can't you have both? Competent man, with a strong female. I guess that would detract from how amazing the woman is. Not to mention I find it hard to suspend my disbelief at a 90lb woman with no superpowers, ragdolling guys twice her size.

[Berethor]

Yea I don't like Feminist Mary Sue type of characters, like Rey from Disney Star Wars, nothing against the Actress herself, it's Disney's fault. To be fair Conservation of Ninjutsu Trope is not realistic with male characters too, in real life a human being would most likely going to lose fighting four men simultaneously, even if he knows martial arts, but it's more unrealistic with a woman doing it, because men are stronger and faster than women.

[NostalgiaSenpi]

What I don't like is the crazy amount of Lifetime movie cutout ladies on television and cinema.

[Anonymous]

It's setting unrealistic ideals for females, and ones that will hurt them more than help them.

[AmyHew1tt]

Exactly

[Anonymous]

It's creating role models for young girls that will create a generation of very undesirable women.

[es20490446e]

I don't watch such movies to begin with.