Have you had enough of strong female characters?

[Benedek38]

I noticed this trend long ago, but it was hard to prove until now, as the agenda was more covert - politics and female empowerment was pushed into movies via female side characters, so it was hard to quantify it.

But in 2018 Hollywood went full SJW, so this is no longer an issue.

I admit, I no longer go to the movies - I totally boycotted Hollywood, not just because I want to, but because I simply find these movies cringy and annoying.
Arguably the worst trope of the recent years was the "strong female character" - that is, basically a wish fulfillment character in the name of "equality", usually shitting all over male characters.

So let's recap the most successful movies of 2018, to see if my suspicion was correct, and this trope IS as common as I think.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?p=.htm&yr=2018

Black Panther - T'Challa's sister is basically Tony Stark, just better, and with a vagina. She routinely mocks T'Challa.

Infinity War - the usualy strong female characters come with it.

Incredibles 2 - Elastigirl shits all over Mr. Incredible.

Aquaman - Meera acts as the brains, Arthur is irresponsible.

Deadpool 2 - Domino, Negasonic T. W., Yukio...

Dr. Seus - ...

Mission Impossible - Don't know much about it.

Ant-man and the Wasp - Only the second ant man movie, but Ant-man already has to pass the torch to a "superior" female character.

Solo - Kyra basically steals the show from Han all the way. She's a typical SFC

Venom - even in a mostly male-targeted movie, the female love interest is a lawyer, a bigshot - the male lead is a useless, unwashed, lazy journalist.

Bohemian Rhapsody - a biopic.

I could go on.

So, the question is:

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A POWER INBALANCE IN MOVIES IN THE FAVOUR OF FEMALE CHARACTERS, AND DOES THIS ANNOY YOU?

There is no bias towards female character in movies

There is a bias towards female character in movies, and I like it

There is a bias towards female character in movies, and I don't like it

[dantetheexplorer]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

I've read studies that have shown that when women speak up at business meetings and increase their input close to 50% of the discussion, men think that women are hogging all the speaking time.

We can have movies and TV shoes where every character is white. And no one blinks an eye. But have a show like Luke Cage or Black Panther, and you start seeing "Why is it always about black people this, black people that?" and "Why make it so political?" on Twitter.

Similarly, even though women-led movies are a minority in the film industry - 24% of Top 100 movies in 2017 have a female protagonist - we still have people like the Asker who think that people should have had enough of strong female characters by now, even though the figure is at 24% (and we don't even know out of that 24%, how many of the female characters are "strong" or just "typical")

womenandhollywood.com/resources/statistics/

No one complained for years when the movies had Strong Male Characters. No one complained for years when movies had an All-White Cast.

But now suddenly, show a couple of movies with a Strong Female Character (not even a Strong Female Protagonist), and people like the Asker are whining like a pre-teen child whose Posts on Social Media just got a thumbs down.

The fragility of the Male Ego knows no bounds.

[Benedek38]

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
The good old oppression narrative... I won't dignify this to a response.

"I've read studies that have shown that when women speak up at business meetings and increase their input close to 50% of the discussion, men think that women are hogging all the speaking time."
Probably because
1) Women usually don't make up 50% of boardrooms.
2) Businesswomen ARE annoyingly cattish and competitive. This is not me saying this, it's a well knowm phenomenom that women in keadership positions are very often more aggressive than men - especially with other women.

"
We can have movies and TV shoes where every character is white. And no one blinks an eye. But have a show like Luke Cage or Black Panther, and you start seeing "Why is it always about black people this, black people that?""
Make a movie that markets itself as "proud to be white!", "No minotirities or negros here!", and you'll quickly find yourself in a shitstorm. BP was marketed as a movie with no major white characters. It was the selling point. If that isn't racist, then tell me what is!

"Similarly, even though women-led movies are a minority in the film industry - 24% of Top 100 movies in 2017 have a female protagonist "
Who cares about the protagonist? Solo had a male protagonist, but Emilia Clarke stole the show. Scott Pilgrim of Kick-Ass had a male. protagnist, but he was an absolute whimp overshadowed by a stronger female character, which was a key element of the story. I could go on. Go ahead, fill movies with 76% whimpy, weak female characters who get humikiated on a regukar basus by make characters, and we'll see how female dominant and oppressive that is!

"No one complained for years when the movies had Strong Male Characters."
*Raises hand*
I did! Boring, one dimensional, Gary Stus always annoyed me.

If you can't put your sekf-hatred and misandry aside, and think objectively, do not even comment next time!

[LegendarySir]

I'm tired of the empty strong female characters. They're so focused on showing people they're strong, that forget to make to make them human.
There's really nothing going for them besides being female and badass. Ok, cool, but what else? They even remove any sort of empathy so that they don't appear weak. Like bro, her family's life is in danger (just an example), at least show she's worried. Even John Wick showed his humanity while killing hundreds of dudes.

Nobody minds that a main character is female, and that she's strong, we like that, nobody wants to follow the story of a whiny bitch, but make her believable.

[Benedek38]

Well, actually I DO mind that she is female, because it is weaponised. I DO care that she is strong, because it is used to make fun of male characters. I don't like that.

[LegendarySir]

Not all the time, man. If it's like that I don't dig it, but you can have a female main character without shitting on the male ones.
That being said, we're in a phase where it's all about smashing the made up patriarchy, so movies will try to appeal to that, hence the man-bashing.
But look at the movie Alien for example. Ripley was a strong female character that showed humanity, and there was no man-bashing. The thing is that the movie is from the 70's, not from an era where men are seen as inherently bad, like today.

[Benedek38]

"If it's like that I don't dig it, but you can have a female main character without shitting on the male ones."
Can you though? Usually the model for SFC is Ripley - but people seem to forget Ripley was a bitch most of the time. Also, in Alien 2, the space marines were deliberately displayed as whining, incompetent buffoons (with the exception of Vasquez and Hicks of course), and Ripley had to do everything. Maybe she wasn't that good of an example...

"and there was no man-bashing."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVn2HSHW1aI
No man-bashing...

"The thing is that the movie is from the 70's, not from an era where men are seen as inherently bad"
You DO realise that radical feminism and manbashing was the SHIT back in the 70s, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism
"The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution (1970): "[T]he end goal of feminist revolution must be, unlike that of the first feminist movement, not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally."

[LegendarySir]

You're gonna consider that man-bashing? It's just fucking banter between soldiers. Every soldier movie has that type of moment, even when it's all men.

It wasn't a mainstream thing like today, simply because there were no means for it to become mainstream. Today with the Internet those radical sexist ideals by feminists have spread like fire, reaching the media. Back then it wasn't this bad.

[Benedek38]

"You're gonna consider that man-bashing? It's just fucking banter between soldiers."
It was a prototype for the genderswap stereotype. It was the beginning of a slippery slope.
Imagine it like this - you're in a slide, and you start sliding.
You're going slow in the beginning. "Oh, this is great! Just thrilling enough!"
But then it starts to become faster!
"Hey stop this! This is scary! I want off this slide!"
You arrive at the bottom, your legs shaking. You hated that part that scared you.

Will you go back for the slow, pleasant tingly part again? Or do you say "fuck that, I don't need that high at this price!"?
And we don't even know what's at the end of the feminist slide...

So yeah. I might consider it banter. But when the badass space marines all act like idiot, I start thinking "maybe that IS what the characters are, and it wasn't just witty banter. Maybe there really wasn't a single ballsy man in that movie!".

"It wasn't a mainstream thing like today, simply because there were no means for it to become mainstream. "
Actually feminism was very much mainstream by that time. Roe v Wade happened n 1973, the Civil Rights act was in 1964. The Battle of the Sexes (an idiotic tennis match) was also in 73, which further spearheaded the feminist movement. And just look at James Cameron - he clearly had a domina fetish going on, with Sarah Connor and Ripley, and later on Rose in Titanic, and Netiri in Avatar... all female characters who saved their men or were in general stereotypical SFCs.

"Today with the Internet those radical sexist ideals by feminists have spread like fire, reaching the media. Back then it wasn't this bad."
You sure? Valerie Solanas's "SCUM Manifesto" was written and spread in 1967 - another cornerstone of radical feminism.

[MelaninDoll]

I HATE IT! I WANT TO BE EQUAL TO MEN NOT BETTER! and that's what hollywood keeps portraying, that Women are better than men! How do they think this will affect little boys? Or right THEY DON'T THINK! They think they're out here making a change but they just look stupid and they're pissing people off.

[alice55]

To be honest I rarely watch recent movie especially American one so I didn't really noticed they were that much strong female character.
I mainly like to watch old French movie and there the character are good.

[Clo917]

As long as they're well-developed characters instead of empty ones that are strong just for the sake of pushing an agenda, I don't mind it.

[Benedek38]

Can you give me an example of a well developed "strong female character"?

[Clo917]

Personally, I think Wonder Woman, Hermione Granger, and Black Widow are well-developed yet strong characters.

[Benedek38]

OK, let's see,

Wonder Woman - she is ridiculously overpowered; she has zero difficulties during the movie, and she defeats the final villain by... really wanting to defeat him, and then suddenly gaining the power to do so. Througout the movie the male love interest's inferior strength is made fun of, and he sacrifices himself just so Wonder Woman can have a dramatic moment - there was no reason to kill him.
This is a clear wish fulfillment - an inverted damsel in distress trope with a Mary Sue on top.

Hermione Granger - another Mary Sue. In the books she was a nerdy, bookish, somewhat ugly girl who froze during fights, and had no street smarts - in excahnge for being a great character (atleast initially). In the movies (and later on in the books) she turned into a one man army who knew all the spells, could put up a fight with anyone, and was there for everyone. She's once again, a Mary Sue. https://www.quora.com/Could-Hermione-be-a-Mary-Sue

Black Widow is a typical "femme fatale" stereotype. She's basically a bland character with a shitton of outdated tropes. For example, "better by example", beating up men, fighting with her legs (because as we know, women's thighs are deadly weapons, even though men have stronger legs on average)... And of course there is a bit of manbashing in there, withthe security guard sucking at fighting, and comparing himself to the awesome black widow.
What character does she have? She's... infertile. Whop whop. So who cares? It was a tacked on addition to try and save the character from being what we both know she is - a mary sue.

[Anonymous]

The fact that these marketing campaigns for these movies are so blatantly anti-white male is stupid. I'm not offended or anything. I don't care about your dumb movie and forced narrative but it's just really dumb from a business point of view. Why are you anti form of any consumer? Especially when it comes to big time summer blockbuster films? These people are literally stupid. Their political message makes no sense. They're a business and they value voicing politics over making money apparently. Pure incompetence.

[Benedek38]

"Why are you anti form of any consumer?"
Simple. Know how mob bosses often end up in politics? Same principle here - when you more money than you can possibly use, Maslow's pyramid kicks in, and you start to transcend yourself, create something grander. A way to do this is to get involved in politics.

Hollywood blockbusters rarely if ever fail. At least that is what the pattern shows. They tried subtle politics, and it didn't affect their numbers, so they decided to get involved more seriously.

So yes, politics is literally more important to them than selling their product, brcause the product will turn insane profits anyway.

[Phanta]

It's so idiotic to have every other movie star a woman character who beats up half a dozen men with karate and loves guns, cars, and black leather. Retardsville.

[Jersey2]

Yes there is an obvious bias. The characters though are ridiculous much of the time. Older movies have some quality strong female characters. I blame weak writing. Star Wars was ruined with this crap writing.

[Sweatyotterr]

I just dont like how they are all mary sues and they put down to build themselves up it ruined star wars for me and fucking love stars wats i read the comics and love the tv shows but im done with the movies

[Anonymous]

The main character in the majority of those movies are male lmao. I'm so confused as to why you're offended that female characters aren't helpless and poorly written anymore. Don't you think the typical damsel in distress is kinda lazy writing?

Also, Shuri, T'Challa's sister, probably makes fun of him because they're siblings lol. That's what siblings do. Nowhere in that movie are we supposed to feel like T'Challa is inferior to her.

[Leafpool2]

It's pretty clearly implied in the text both are very important to the country and each other lmao.
I smell an only child.

[Benedek38]

"Don't you think the typical damsel in distress is kinda lazy writing?"
Don't you think writing male characters are stupid, bumbling, cowardly, sex crazed dumbasses is a bit of a cliche too? Because that's exactly what's going on.

"Also, Shuri, T'Challa's sister, probably makes fun of him because they're siblings lol. That's what siblings do."
Then why doesn't he make fun of her too? Wotty banter goes two ways. When my sister comments on me having bad social skills, telling me im a joking fashion that I suck at talking to people, I tell her that at least I will have a degree that qualifies me higher than McDonalds burger assembly assistant, because I am smarter than her.

Banter is only fun when both sides hit back. In BP shuri is practically perfect - supergenius, great fighter, has charisma and leadership skills. So what's left for T'Challa? She lectures him like a teacher lectures a child. where is T'Challa's dignity?

[Opinion Owner]

LMFAO let's start with this- ALL of those movies you named were written by men with the exception of Venom which had one female writer and two male writers. Also, are any of the male characters in any of those movies like that? I don't think so? I haven't seen all of those movies but none of the main Marvel characters in Infinity War are like that. Can you explain to me which of those male characters are "stupid, bumbling, cowardly, sex crazed, dumb asses"?

T'Challa is literally the KING of Wakanda, do you really think it's appropriate for him to argue with his teenage sister. He's an adult, she's much younger than him and it's obvious he doesn't feel put down by her playful banter. He's a much more serious character and it would've been odd to see him insult her back. Have you even seen the movie? You act like T'Challa is some weak useless character jfc when he literally saves ALL OF WAKANDA from Killmonger. He's extremely serious about his duty and you act like he's a pushover when in reality he's just being an adult. If Shuri really didn't respect T'Challa she wouldn't have helped him as much as she did, or she would've protested to it.

[Benedek38]

"ALL of those movies you named were written by men with the exception of Venom which had one female writer and two male writers."
So? Self-hating men exist. Feminist men exist. I know plenty of men who would throw their fellow men under the bus to get female approval. And Hollywood is full of these weak men.

"are any of the male characters in any of those movies like that?"
Yes they are. Most of them would be referred to as "beta". Even Tom Hardy was kind of beta in Venom.

"none of the main Marvel characters in Infinity War are like that."
Sure, but all female characters are like that. And actually, Vision is like that. And Thor in his own movie (Ragnarok) was totally the bitch of Valkyrie. And Captian America was the bitch fo Peggy. Most of these characters appear alpha in general, but the moment a woman comes along, they become bumbling fools.
Tony Start, the supergenius, couldn't maintain his composure in the presence of Black Widow. THAT is bullshit!
But let's take the women!
Black Widow is a walking femme fatale girlpower trope.
Scarlett Witch is ridiculously overpowered, and saved as a character by the fact that she is useless.
Gamora is a typical SFC.
I could go on. Most female Marvel characters are annoying and sassy.

"T'Challa is literally the KING of Wakanda, do you really think it's appropriate for him to argue with his teenage sister."
If anything, it is inappropriate for his SISTER to argue with him. A real king would have demanded and earned the respect and admiration of his people, and Shuri wouldn't have dared insult him. But you said they were siblings firsr - so don't bring me the king card. By your logic, the king has to be the least provileged person who every can shit on. How is that logical to you?

[Benedek38]

"T'Challa is literally the KING of Wakanda, do you really think it's appropriate for him to argue with his teenage sister."
1) So what? This is the good old "be a man and take it, a woman can't hurt you" argument. I am tough as nails when it comes to emotions. But when my sister starts insulting me, and taking low blows at me, I tell her to stop it immediately before I do something I will regret. Why should men have to put up with horrible women?

"He's a much more serious character and it would've been odd to see him insult her back."
Is it any odder than seeing a king be insulted by his subject?

"You act like T'Challa is some weak useless character jfc when he literally saves ALL OF WAKANDA from Killmonger."
He's literally useless without his suit and magic powers. In both his fights for the throne (against killmonger and against the other tribe member) plot armor saves him. Face it, he's a shitty fighter. Anyone could be black panther on magic flower steroids in a magic suit.

by the way I just want to mention, Shuri is a universally hated character for her arrogance, so I am not alone.

"He's extremely serious about his duty and you act like he's a pushover when in reality he's just being an adult."
One of the first things adults have taught me in life is that it is easier to be a pushover than to swim against the current. Thankfully, I did not. listen to them.
MOST adults are pushovers. But you will realise this in time.

"If Shuri really didn't respect T'Challa she wouldn't have helped him as much as she did, or she would've protested to it."
If you respect someone, you don't insult them bavk knowing that it will hurt them inside, but they won't insult you back. That's not a sign of love. At all

[Opinion Owner]

I think your idea of a good male character is a character with no flaws who reigns completely superior to every woman in their movie. But is this an accurate portrayal? Absolutely not. Every well written character has some sort of flaw.

I haven't seen Black Panther in awhile, but does Shuri really INSULT him? She jokes with him and says "What are those?" but does she actually say anything ridiculously offensive? If so, I'd appreciate you telling me what it was again.

Anyways, this argument is getting really tiring. If you want to watch powerless, stereotypical women just stick to old movies. I guarantee you haven't watched all of them out there. Nobody's forcing you to watch these newer movies.

[Benedek38]

"I think your idea of a good male character is a character with no flaws who reigns completely superior to every woman in their movie."
Not really. Rather one that has flaws, but has consistency in its character. Captain America is a simple guy, a patriot, a man of morals. So why does he act like an idiot when a sassy woman plays with him?

I never said T'Challa has to be perfect either - but the fact that he is a king means he MUST put a fucking leash on his entitled brat of a sister before he causes more damage than good. She's already referred to a representative of a foreign nations as a "damaged white boy" - which is insanely racist, and would lead to tension in any other circumstance.

"Every well written character has some sort of flaw."
Funny you should say that.
Can you tell me what is the flaw of Shuri?
How about Black Widow?
How about Rey and Kyra from Star Wars?
How about Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider movie?
Hoe about Domino or Yukio in Deadpool 2?
How about Wonder Woman?
What are their flaws?
Because I can say a SHITTON of flaws about every male hero in the Marvel movies, but I can'r come uo with any for these female characters.

"I haven't seen Black Panther in awhile, but does Shuri really INSULT him?"
She chastises him for relying too much om technology, and for not bothering to upgrade his tools. She treats him like a child.

"If you want to watch powerless, stereotypical women just stick to old movies."
Strawman. On the ither hand, if you want ridiculously overpowered female character one-upping make characters in every movie - keep going tot he cinemas.

[Opinion Owner]

Shuri- She doesn't take much seriously due to her younger, playful nature.
Black Widow- In the beginning she lacked trust in other people and had her guard up, emotionally. She has also hinted that she lacked a moral compass in her past.
Qi'ra- "Solo director Ron Howard described Qi'ra as secretive, slippery, and morally questionable" I can't believe you don't see any flaw with Qi'ra (or Kyra, as you spelled it) because she cares only for her survival and completely lacks a moral compass (while Black Widow is able to gain one, we never see Qi'ra gain one).
Rey- medium.com/.../rey-not-only-isnt-a-mary-sue-she-has-one-of-the-best-character-arcs-in-all-of-star-wars-6bbff362f7b0
I won't comment on the rest of the characters because I do not know their movies well enough/at all.

If you really think Shuri is insulting T'Challa you're extremely sensitive and I'm sorry for that because it seems like it prohibits you from enjoying simple things like movies.

A strawman against you or old movies?

[Volb3at]

Who cares? If I’m enjoying it, and it’s a male lead then great! If I’m enjoying it and it’s a female lead, that’s great too!

I’d take a well written female lead over a bland male lead any day.

[bill_towers]

These strong female Charakters feel so forced.
Hollywood Always was a Propaganda Tool.

[BrownMouse]

With movies? I don't care but in video games we need more like Lara Croft from tomb rider and Chloe and Nadine from uncharted and Claire Redfield from resident evil and Ellie from TLOU. We always get men as characters but having those is something amazing and a good start for games

[BrownMouse]

* Clem from TWD 2, 3 and 4

[Benedek38]

Why do you need that? If anything, you should be advocating for customizable characters.

I remember when feminists said "it's not against men, it's for women" - but then you call for less male characters in video games...

[Benedek38]

Also, Nadine was literally a wish fulfillment character, and Ellie was turned into a dyke. Fuck off with that. Can't have her like men, can you?

[BrownMouse]

It's not like that but as a gamer I feel more involved in the character and i can relate to it when it's a female. I'm not saying that i hate male characters but it's good to have a change once in a while

[Benedek38]

"It's not like that but as a gamer I feel more involved in the character and i can relate to it when it's a female."
So damn how male gamers feel, right? How fucking selfish are you!

"I'm not saying that i hate male characters but it's good to have a change once in a while "
Well, I expressly dislike playing as female characters. So I will never play an FPS where I can't make a male character. Either character selection, or nothing. The only exception I give was TWD 1 and 2, but even season 3 became a feminist cringefest with Clem basically becoming a cartboard cutout strong female character. It's annoying as fuck.

Imagine if EVERY FUCKING MALE CHARACTER out there was Leon Kennedy, busting cheesy one liners, and beating everyone, even 30 foot tall monstes, with roundhouse kicks without breaking a sweat! Sounds annoying yet? Yeah, that's how I feel.

[BrownMouse]

Calm down

[Benedek38]

I'm calm.

[BrownMouse]

Okay

[alwayswrite]

You sound super butt hurt over fictional females... do you have something against strong females?

[Benedek38]

Actually yes I do. They are obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

No way, I love strong female characters like: Xena The Warrior Princess, Lara Croft, Rey, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Mord Sith Cara, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Red Sonja, Sheena - Queen of the Jungle, and many others.

[Benedek38]

Cuck

[Opinion Owner]

They are hot, what else can I say :P

[lofii]

there's no such thing as "strong female characters"

[Benedek38]

What do you mean by that?

[lofii]

they belong in the kitchen

[tartaarsaus]

I find it very hard to care whether there are more strong female characters or not.

[name_is_eric]

You forgot Lara Croft. A nonsensical character.

[Benedek38]

I went by box office numbers, and was afraid of running out of characters.
I could have added Lara Croft, Ocean's 8, Predator, and probably a few more I haven't heard of. But you are right.

[apple24]

I don't watch female movies

[Leafpool2]

37 male protagonists? But last year I had 38!!!

[Volb3at]

If this doesn’t get MHO, I fear even more for the sanity of this place.

[Benedek38]

@Leafpool2
1) You won't get MHO.
2) That's a fallacy. I didn't say protagonist. I said character, specifically because these SFCs are often inserted into the story as supporting characters BECAUSE they don't actually have any character arc or struggle - again, they are badly written Mary Sues, so they can't have a character progression, that would mean they are imperfect in some way.

An example of these supporting SFC is Hitgirl in Kick-Ass. She isn't the main character, but she's more memorable than the main character, and overshadows him in every regard. So the film technically has a male protagonist, but in reality she's the local badass.
Another example is Solo - Han was a complete wimp in the moviend Kyra ans the bounty hunter girl took the brunt of the effort.
Same with Black Panther - T'Challa's powers come mostly from his suit - the suit his sister developed. So while T'Challa is the main character, we know he is only strong because of the suit and the magic juice, both courtesy of his sister - she's the MVP.

Deadpool too. Deadpool is treated as a comic relief in his own movie, while the 3, main female supporting characters deal with everything.

I could go on and on and on.

But let me ask you - if 85% of protagonists were women, but they were all portrayed as incompetent, clumsy damsels in distress who need a man to save them, would that be MORE or LESS in favour of women than the current case? Because that's exactly how male characters are now. Only protagonist in title, but they are stupid comic relief characters who get tossed around while the women do the hard work.

[Leafpool2]

Who said I'm looking for MHO? I'm just making fun of you.

[Benedek38]

No arguments I see

[Leafpool2]

I don't owe you thoughtful discourse I've know you five minutes and I haven't enjoyed any of them.

[Benedek38]

Suit yourself. Must be fun being wrong and ignorant.

[Leafpool2]

Probably not. You seen miserable

[Benedek38]

Whatever

[MrMansonsPocketPssy]

I don't mind it.
xx
~ Mrs Manson