Does Sparing the Rod Really Spoil the Child?

[Anonymous]

I distinctly remember going over to babysit my neighbors kid as a young teen. I knew from my interactions with his mom, that he got a lot of spankings. During one such baby sitting session, I remember the kid fiddling with a lamp that would probably shatter if he didn't stop playing with it, so after 2 warnings, I stood up and raised my voice at him to get him to stop, and the kid literally backed up into a corner and cowered in fear like a scared dog. I remember being so taken aback by the look of absolute terror in the kids eyes at the thought I was going to beat him. Instead, I took him by the hand and led him away from the lamp and had a conversation about what he was doing wrong and why it was unsafe, and that was it. Re-directed him to something else, and we moved on with our day, no belts necessary.

I've never understood why it's okay to beat a child that is a third of the size of their adult counterpart. All this kid knew from his interactions with his mom, was fear, but that didn't stop his bad behavior. He wasn't now a model child who never did anything wrong or stopped getting in trouble. To hear people speak about spankings like it's the holy grail of discipline is odd, because if it worked so incredibly well, why would you have to keep doing it over and over again? It also is a walking contradiction to what parents tell their children about how one shouldn't hit someone else if they are fighting over a toy or they shouldn't punch someone if they skip the line, but yet, the child's own parent is an absolute hypocrite by beating their own children as a means to a solution to a problem. I mean explain to me how a parent can be called in by a teacher to discuss a child hitting another child, and then that parent takes the kid home and tells him how wrong he was for doing it...by then hitting him?!?

When a parent says, beating a child is the only way, clearly it isn't. You want to institute discipline and set boundaries for your children where they know, once they cross a certain line, enough is enough, but that doesn't mean pull out a shoe, or a switch, or the hand to beat them down. My mother in particular had "the look." From across the room, if she sensed we were doing wrong, she would shoot "the look," and my brother and I knew, if we kept doing what we were doing, we'd be without tv, without video games or any other fun thing, without dessert, without social activity or anything until we understood very clearly that you don't mess with the look.

My mom didn't get that power from beating us down. She got it from constant discipline, teaching us about respect, and from consistent follow through---if she said we were going to be grounded and/or have stuff taken away, it happened, and it suckkkkeedddd! A beating lasts a few minutes, but not being able to go to your best friends birthday party that all your friends talked about afterwards for weeks...a tragedy.

I think parents who believe in beatings as the only true way to get their kids to comply, should really ask themselves, why is it that they, in all their adult age and wisdom, can't seem to figure out how to discipline their own 6 year old child without resorting to violence? This also pertains to any aspect of dealing with other people---if you can't figure out another solution other than beating someone to a pulp or physically putting your hands on them, why is that? People who do this end up in jail. We don't allow other adults to beat or spank children, men to beat women (and it should also be women to beat men), bosses to "discipline" bad employees, and on and on, and yet, somehow, in some people's worlds, it's okay that they should be able to do it to small children. Something is wrong with that picture.

[rjroy3]

"I think parents who believe in beatings as the only true way to get their kids to comply, should really ask themselves, why is it that they, in all their adult age and wisdom, can't seem to figure out how to discipline their own 6 year old child without resorting to violence? "

This I 100% agree with, but your overall conclusion I disagree with. There are parents that fuck up by choosing spanking as the punishment of choice, rather than a choice. And some parents fuck up by how they go about doing it. But it's also true that there are many cases where a child who has never been spanked is more likely to act out and be defiant of authority (whom they should be listening to) than those who have been spanked.

Spanking is a form of discipline that should never been done while you're angry and should only be used for outright defiance. It's also a form of discipline that a kid grows out of as an appropriate form of punishment. Spanking shouldn't be the first choice, but if you have a kid that you told to do something important that you need them to do and it is vital that your child listen to you in the longterm and they outright say no. That is the time where spanking should be considered, because grounding doesn't work for that.

The only time I was ever spanked for anything other than outright defiance to my parents was when I was super young and running into the street. They pulled me aside and expressed to be verbally 3 times how I can't run into the street, because of cars coming and if i'm not careful I'll get hit by a car. Me as a little kid I would get all excited from playing and forget, then run into the street again. My dad ended up giving me a spanking for it, because he needed me to remember and respond when it came down to it. I never ran in the street after that, because I had the emotional connection to that action.

Obviously it's a case by case basis on the situation. That's why I say spanking should never be the exclusively form of punishment, but sometimes it really is the best options. Too many parents just fuck it up and that's the bigger issue. Poor parenting decisions.

[HOAAH]

some parents just don't know any other way to help the child learn from what the child is doing that is wrong.
It's not as easy as it seems, and it can be frustrating.
I don't think beating works, and it is an act of violence. I barely use it, and only have hit my kids a handful of times (my older one more than my younger one) but I found it was wrong and it was out of anger and rage more than it was out of trying to teach him a lesson. I have toned it down and barely done it. I was beaten as a kid and if I do beat my kids, it is out of my childhood anger that I was beaten.
I have read numerous books on how to raise kids, including my current book "have a new kid by friday" and the problem I have with raising kids is this: CHARACTER and BEHAVIOR is CAUGHT not TAUGHT. I caught it from my parents who were mentally, physically and psychologically abusive and I don't know how to unlearn it. It's not as easy as it seems for some, especially for me.

[yoshi_wanna_ask]

Okay, a lot of people misunderstand what this phrase means and even what 'smacking' means. I've worked in childcare of some kind for almost 20 years and I can tell you smacking is (pretty much) internationally agreed on is:
* A flat, open palmed hand connecting once or twice that is NOT hard enough to leave a mark or injury (open skin or otherwise) of any kind. Acceptable locations are hand, buttocks or fingers.

Also the exact phrasing of "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is a verse from the Bible misquoted and taken out of context. The full context is talking about the willingness to *correct* your child. Now I'm not sure about you but correcting sounds a lot different than smacking to me. That's not to say I *don't* believe in it but my youngest brother is a great example for this situation. He was the youngest of five & has always had a happy sense of mischief about him. Whenever he did something wrong, he has 5 or so people around him to tell him off & it normally took only a few seconds for him to change his behaviour. So when he was really bad was really the only times he was ever smacked. Afterwards one or both of my parents would always talk to us about what we did wrong, there's always consequences for that & that they still love us. My little brother was rarely smacked & real correction, involves far more than just 'the rod'

Having seen, probably thousands, of different children in many different moods and situations I can unequivocally tell you the children that don't have enforced boundaries or limitations are nearly always the most anti-social, the most demanding of attention & the least sympathetic children in the room. The parents often have professionals or workers talking to them about their childs behaviour & a common response I get from parents that don't correct their children or enforce (good) boundaries is that the whole concept is overwhelming so they avoid discipline as often as possible or "oh they're just a bad kid". That one breaks my heart. It's outstanding to see the changes in these kids once they're given direction & boundaries. I always advocate that there's many ways to correct a child most of which don't include smacking but it all hinges on educating yourself, being aware of what the child is like, learning to manage your own emotions & always offer explanation & reassurance.

[rocksongwriter]

I think the key is there needs to be discipline in some form. I have a friend who has a daughter who is now 11. This kid has been basically allowed to do whatever she wants. Like she was allowed to stay up until 11, sometimes midnight, even when she was around 4 or 5 years old. Her dad will tell do to something or else she can't receive some reward (like going to the zoo). She will do 10% of what he asks her to do, and my friend is like "well, you did do [whatever the 10% was] so we can go to the zoo". This all stems from my friend attempting to avoid any confrontation or conflict whatsoever. He doesn't want to fight with her -- but this actually leads to her acting up, because she knows that all she has to do is show a little resistance and her dad will cave and let her have her way just so he doesn't have to listen to her complain.

When this kid was about 4 or 5, I predicted that she would be smoking pot and shoplifting by the time she is in middle school (I haven't told anyone this prediction though). Now she's in 5th grade and she has struggled in school over the past few years, so her parents (who are now divorced) have been enrolling her in a math & reading tutoring program over the past few years to get her caught up, but I recently heard she's failing most, if not all, of her subjects (even with the tutoring program).

Side story: I remember when this girl was in preschool her dad said that the teacher told him that his daughter was a bully in class and he said something like "can you imagine that? She's not a bully." I thought to myself "she beats up on you and you're an authority figure. I can only imagine what she does to her classmates".

As I mentioned before my friend is divorced, so he moved in with another friend and in the first week or so my friend's daughter was over there and I was too, and the roommate saw how my friend was not enforcing any discipline and he said basically "Isn't [friend] the parent? Shouldn't he be parenting?" and I was like "you have NO idea...".

[Tukindz]

You guys are part of the problem. You need to tell your friend.

[rocksongwriter]

I'm not a parent but I've heard that telling someone how to parent (or that they're parenting wrong) is the worst thing a person can do.

[Tukindz]

People don't like to hear incontinence, but sometimes they need a friend who tells them the truth as it is.

[Being_a_good_Indian]

assets.entrepreneur.com/.../...ks-your-people.jpeg

Thanks for sharing.

Our parents and grandparents accepted many things that we no longer find acceptable today. It is possible to accept that they were doing what they believed to be right at the time while simultaneously choosing not to do or believe those things.

Parents are physically bigger and stronger than children. They also know more than children and, because their brains are fully developed, they are capable of greater self-control. When a parent tries to get children to behave better by hitting them, that parent is telling them that hitting people who are smaller and weaker than you is an acceptable way of getting what you want from them. Why should it surprise that parent when their children beat up smaller children at school, or grow up to be wife beaters?

We haven't the patience to deal with what our kids may be dishing out. Once you begin hitting the child who is pushing your buttons, you will experience enormous relief. And that pleasant relief can drive you to hit even more, even harder. Hitting children turns them into angry, resentful adults with psychological and emotional problems.

They are also more likely to suffer mental health problems, such as anxiety, depression, and substance abuse problems, and less likely to empathize with others or internalize norms of moral behavior.

So do yourself a favor: Use your fully-developed adult brain to figure out clever, non-abusive ways of getting your children to do what you want them to do.

mygraphix.files.wordpress.com/.../great-work.jpg

[itwasmelaniasfault]

I think the same.

[Being_a_good_Indian]

@itwasmelaniasfault

That's Good. We all should think for our future generation. 😊

[Paul09]

What the actual fuk? I got my ass spanked when I step out of line many times. I never once beat a kid smaller than me. If anything I knew how to take a beating by bullies. And mental health problems were caused by yet again bullies! Kids are the worst, kids are the reason why all of this happens. Spanking should be accepted, beatings , brusings should not obviously. Your ass is meaty it can take a little spanking.

[ObscuredBeyond]

A lot of it is context. Are they being insolent smartasses, or are they compelled by curiosity and unable to listen to basic instruction without understanding why it matters?

Think back to your own childhood. Some things, you simply felt entitled to understand. Other times, you were being a smartass, and you knew it.

The parental approach should reflect the context of the child's acting up.

You don't administer Chinese penicillin to treat a mosquito bite. Even for its intended purpose, that stuff is a good way to kill someone, as the pharmacists in small villages don't always know what they're doing. (A Chinese friend of mine told me about her own experience with this.)

Likewise, approaches of discipline have to address what is actually needed: context, or consequence.

Children need to know that adults are there to give them perspective. They are not there to be used. They are not there to be feared and despaired over as inescapable boogeymen either.

If a child is so afraid of dropping their glass of milk that they go thirsty rather than pour it, then there is something wrong with the parenting style.

[Mimi1721]

I don't agree with beating (and most of the time it isn't) but I was spanked as a child and because of it I am a much better person today, I was quite the rebellious child and I'd usually get a warning or two before getting spanked, and trust me by the time I was old enough to get spanked I knew what I was and wasn't allowed to do. After the first couple spankings I would listen after a warning, but every once in a while I wouldn't listen to my parents and I'd gets spanked. I was never afraid of my parents, I'd be sent to my room after getting spanked and after about 5-8 minutes my parents would come in a talk to me, they weren't angry with me and I was never angry at them, after all I did get a warning before getting spanked.
As I got older and they couldn't spank me anymore they started grounding me, as someone who has gotten both spanked and grounded I would much rather get spanked then grounded!! Spanking the "pain" lasts for 5 minutes if that (it was more the embarrassment of getting spanked) but when you are grounded you miss out on a great day. I think grounding your kid is way worse.

[nevermoregirl7]

There is a difference between spanking and beating. Beating is when you abuse a child to the point where they are bruised and injured past the punishment. This includes punching, kicking, and possibly even whipping the child. That is something CPS needs to be contacted for.

A spanking is a sharp impact from the hand to the bottom (traditionally) that stings the child, but if used with the correct amount of force, will not impair the child. As someone familiar with spanking, if you do spank for an excessive amount of time, bruising does happen.

I was spanked by my dad. Every time I did something considered disrespectful and wrong, I would get a spanking. There was a time or two I got the ever legendary belt. I recall my dad telling me he hates doing it. But I can't remember ever being impaired as a child. Normally you get spanked, you cry and you move on to next activity.
I am not traumatized. I was never afraid of anyone or have a strange fear of men. I don't feel like I was violated or abused. And to be perfectly honest, my dad stopped spanking me at 6 or 7, because by then I understood you don't talk back, snatch away, or say mean things.
Also, I would like to say, I don't care if you are a mother with 8 kids and five of them are lawyers and doctors. You should not preach how other people should discipline their children. I think as long as the parent understands their force and where the line for spanking discipline is, that is important.

[meowcow]

I don't think sparing the rod will spoil the child.

I'm a new parent and this has come across my mind many times. As a kid, I received smacks with a thin bamboo stick as a disciplinary measure. I don't consider it a "beating" that abusive parents inflict on their kids. These smacks hurt, but they were skin deep and aside from a small red welt, left no bruising or severe injury.

However. the purpose of discipline is to teach the child the difference between right and wrong, and what they should and should not do. While smacking a child to instill fear is one way to do it, you are teaching them to be afraid of beatings rather than teaching them right from wrong.

The child's response will be "if I steal this and get caught, I'm going to get beaten". That's not what I want my child to think.

I want my child to think, "if I steal this, it is wrong and hurtful to someone else, so I should not do it".

For this reason, I will likely take an alternative means of teaching the lesson. How? I have not figured that out yet. She is less than 1 year old so I have time.

[blueguy932000]

My mom taught me to respect her, even being on her own. (I was raised by a single mother and no father) I never cried or embarrassed her in stores, restaurants, or public places, I knew better, she wouldn't take that crap from us (my sister as well). Not once did she ever hit us or beat us in any form. It can be done; I and many others are proof of this. That's a fact. My opinion? Hitting is just a quick, lazy way to try and discipline children (and animals for that matter).

I agree with the author. How can you really teach your kids to not hit people when you're hitting them? Kids pay attention to that kind of thing. It's like when I was growing up and my mom and most of the adults that I and my friends were around smoked cigarettes. They always told us not to smoke and that it's bad, but proceeded to light up themselves. Sure, I don't smoke now and never would again, but guess what? Just about all of my friends and I began smoking in high school, most of them still do even. To us, as dumb kids, adults smoke. I guess the whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing is a load of crap. "lead by example" is a better motto to follow, especially around children.

[Hal2002]

Yes sparing the rod, really spoils the child. You just have to look at the behavior of kids in public today, to have that question answered.

I was physically disciplined as a child, I was not abused. I was not spanked for every thing, but when I crossed the line big time I was giving an ass whipping.

For me time outs, being sent to my room, meant that I had gotten away with what I had done and I would do it again. When I got an ass whipping for something, you better believe I though twice about doing that again.

I was a 6 months away from my 18th birthday when my second youngest brother was born, I was 21 when the youngest was born. My brothers in personality were almost the exact opposite of each other, and how I disciplined them reflected their personalities.

The older I could punish with time outs and taking away things from him, the younger one that did not work and my hand went across his backside a few times when I would look after them.

Their mother was the time out kind of mom at first, she could not figure out why everyone would tell her how well behaved the youngest one was when they were out with me. When he was a terrors in public, when he was with her.

One day he really crossed a line and she cracked his butt, she did not have to many problems with him after that first butt warming.

Children need guide lines, and there must be consequence when they cross those lines. A ass whipping should always be a last resort, when other punishments fail.

I have yet to see a parent that physically disciplines their child, having to try to bride that child to behave in public. The same can not be said, for the parents that use the time out take away thing methods only.

[WD2017]

I don't believe in child abuse. But I don't believe in disrespectful kids either. Kids these days are out of control and has no repsct for their elders. A lot of kids are ending up in jail for trying to be grown. I cannot speak for these bad kids today. I once saw a teenage boy call an elderly woman a bitch and spit on her. His mother did not punish him because she doesn't believe in abuse. He knew that. His mom tried "talking it out" but he literally said to her, "Fuck you, bitch!" and struck her. She could have struck him back. But despite how strongly she was against "child abuse" she left it alone which made him even more disrespectful. One day he was walking alone and three boys approached him. They were the elderly woman's grandsons. They beat him to death. The moral of the story, from personal experience, is that as a child growing up in the 1960s and 1970s my moms butt whippings kept me out of jail and the morgue. But that's just me. I grew up with the term "Respect your elders, go to school, and stay out of trouble or get your butt whipped." The results? I am a highly-educated black man with no criminal record. Better to get your disrespectful butt whipped by mom than get it taken in jail. But that's just me. I can't tell none of you how to raise your kids. I come from a strict upbringing and it turned me into a respectful gentleman. If my mom wasn't strict I would probably be in jail or dead. But that's just me.

[art84]

I have two nephews and at times they have been disrespectful to me and my parents. I don't hit them but have tried taking away privileges from them and even my mom has tried reasoning with them. I think if a child can understand what he/she did was wrong and learns their lesson then no spanking should be forced. But if the child is misbehaving and out of control then I think they do need to be put in check that they will be punished for whatever wrong that they are doing. Luckily I and my brother never acted out as teenagers and had our mom who was strict and raised us as adults at a young age then doing whatever the heck we wanted to do. I have nieces as well and I really hope that they don't end up a handful for my brother and his wife when they get older. I have seen some bad kids at stores act out and their parents threaten them with a beating at home even cuss them out and stuff. Then again I have seen these same kids cry and their parents give in so that they will behave at the store.

[Anonymous]

I was spanked on occasion as a child. Not often, but enough to instill in me the fact that my parents were the boss and there were consequences for me not doing as they asked. And maybe equally important... to get my attention when I didn't listen. It worked wonderfully, and I appreciate my parents caring enough about me to teach me right from wrong and respect for authority. Because that's what they were doing... teaching me valuable lessons.

I resent your characterization of judicious spanking as beatings and violence. Such a simple minded approach to the issue. Think about it... spankings are much less common today than they were years ago, and yet violence is more common than ever. Many kids have no respect for authority, and that is a MUCH bigger problem now than it used to be. We are going in the wrong direction, and people with your mentality are the problem, not the solution.

So spare us your self-righteous judgment and worry about your own kids. Raise them the way you like, and let the rest of use do the same.

[myTake Owner]

There are about 100 different reasons there is more violence today then there was 20, 30, 50 years ago, but you've just cherry picked out of the air that it must be due to children not being spanked more. What do you call someone else hitting you with a belt, a hand, a switch, a shoe? That is violence. Can you hit your boss with a belt, a police officer, your girlfriend? But again, tell me it's okay and it's not a violent act.

Many kids have no respect for their parents because like a dog owner who never bothers to train or teach their pets to behave or anything, they do nothing in the way of teaching their children anything and let them do whatever and then get mad, and/or violent when the kids don't respond the way they'd like. Children are going to misbehave. This is a part of life for which no amount of beating them is going to stop completely because children are learning to test boundaries and learning right from wrong.

[myTake Owner]

Treating a child like an actual human being capable of learning because you are teaching them and correcting them is not something that cannot be done. Violence is what parents resort to when THEY are angry and frustrated and don't want to actually teach their kids.

[Canuck37]

When the Bible says "spare the rod, spoil the child" (a paraphrase of Proverbs 13:24), it doesn't actually specifically mention physical discipline. The rod could also refer to the Shepherd's rod, which was used to guide a flock of sheep as they travelled.

What we should take the verse to mean is that parents should be watchful of their children, and should provide discipline and guidance where necessary in order to allow them to become productive adults who can contribute to society.

Now I'm not saying spanking is bad, nor am I saying that spanking is good. I'm merely saying that a parent needs to be present for their child in order to effect good in their lives, no matter how they choose to discipline. Letting a child play on their phone 15 hours a day and only showing up to spank or not spank them is bad parenting. Discipline without guidance will spoil any child.

[DonkeyRick69]

Yes. Ever see an out of control child in a supermarket screaming and throwing tauntraums while the parent tries to ignore or pacify it sometimes making ideal threats that the child knows will never be followed up upon. Finally the parent gives in after the child makes a scene buying it whatever you or threat it wants. That's sparing the rod and spoiling the child.
I don't believe you need to beat a child witj a stick and after a certain age having to correct your child's behaviour shouldn't be necessary. At a young age parents should install I'm their child that there are consequences for bad behaviour and that bad behaviour is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I come from a large family where respect and discipline was instilled at a young age.

[Nipidus]

in the supermarket screaming scenario sure buy the chocolate they want but eat it in front of them and don't share... then again I might just be evil

[DonkeyRick69]

@Nipidus lol that is evil. But if it gets to that stage it's gone too far already.

[Maria1980]

Yes. But I believe there are ways to punish the kids more harsh than beating. Taking their Iphones or iPads works like magic. Without causing a trauma Beating the kids doesn't work for everyone. Actually when I remember getting beaten as a child which left marks on my body until now broke me on the inside as I was a very sensitive child and gave me ocd. Gave me nightmares too. So beating should be used only if its a really extra nasty kid. Or other ways violence and being strict with a kid have many different ways without causing emotional scars

[CubsterShura]

Beating isn't the one and only way to discipline a child. There are many other ways to punish a child but beating can still be one of them up to a limit.

Often, despite inspiring the child and explaining what is wrong and what is right etc doesn't help. Sometimes the child even knows it's a mistake. Such as, submitting homework. Yes a spank or two will make the child do homework out of fear and not sincerity, but who will it benefit in the end?

I remember every time I complained about someone and I was kind of desperate for mom to beat/discipline him or her, mom used to beat me as well because of my bad intentions. Lord forbid even today I can never ever do such things with evil intentions. I can totally see that it not only harms the person but also me.

[BrittBratt2416]

I was spanked when I didn't listen or behaved but only a few times but a few times were enough. Look trying to be friends and not a parent with some kids doesn't work, in fact, some kids see it as a sign of parental weakness and use to their advantage by walking all over their parents. I've seen a bunch of times growing up, one girl told she punched her mother in the face cause she pissed her off, an old friend of mine yelled back at her mother and told her to never down talk to her again in front of her friends while picking her up from school.

This one woman was so afraid of her own son, cause she didn't want to get her ass whooped.. yes, her own son was beating his mother when ever he didn't get his way. Kids just straight up cussing their parents out in public, all because they don't have any respect nor fear their parents cause only thing mom or dad is going to do is tell them to go into time out or no games for a week.

[troychapman]

absoloutely my dad was like this me and my sisters were terrified of him like someone would be to a angry gunman or deranged knife wielding psycho you see them as a monster how could they do this to me they said they loved me? but they hurt me it creates a very frightened child and it damages a lot it will really affect their adult life and chances are they will become violent too when my dad come home from work me and my sisters would run for our lives hell i was even scared to look at him and in the end all it did was create conflict to the point that we were nearly fighting in my late teens my mother on the other hand kind loving but firm i knew if i kept misbehaving my xbox would be gone so i behaved for my mother beating only works if your around but loving your child will work till the day they die loving but firm

[ATuairiscean]

Very good points - It is all about balance - Finding a way to discipline children without resorting to violence or abuse - My main thought is while I am not totally against physical punishment, there is a lack of standards or control, a huge grey area, the line between a smack and forcible strike might be different for everybody, who is too say you may not control yourself in a fit of temper if a physical punishment is a matter of habit - My approach would be to find something that really affects the child like grounding with no access to TV/Computer/Gadgets/Phones now that would grate on a child and make them think twice about crossing you.

[lazermazer]

Ok i would like to add some points.

Kids don't properly understand your words, they cannot comprehend what you say easily, especially warnings and the consequences following those warnings.

Parents who are tired of repeated warnings are sometimes forced to use non verbal communication which may lead them to spanking , slapping or other punishments.

Parents should be very cautious of this technique because it also becomes ineffective if abused. Moreover, they should try to understand them first and reciprocate.