What would a ''spare the rod, spoil the kid'' believer do if even that doesn't work?

[Vesuvius87]

Both my husband and I will raise our baby boy differently without hitting him. However, I don't further argue with other people's beliefs on how to raise kids.

Though I would like to know what would someone that believes in spanking (using a belt, wooden spoon, paddle, etc) do if not even that works in the end. This is a real story I'm about to say:

My mother's own cousin (whom is now in his 50's, disabled, on the dialysis and back at home with his mother caring for him) was very troubled as a kid. He joined a gang, skipped school, got into fights, sneak out of his house, etc. His parents did spanked him. He had a high pain threshold and didn't care about getting physically punished. His own words according to my mother were ''So what if my dad gets the belt, I'll still sneak out, I'll find a way''.

By the time he became an adult, his father threw the towel and claimed there was nothing he can do anymore. He was very different from the rest of the siblings. He messed with the wrong people much later on in life and nearly got beaten to death. It was relating to drugs and owning someone money or stealing from them. His father passed away knowing his son never got his life on track, never became better, never stopped stealing nor smoking nor using drugs. His mother (mom's aunt) is devastated about her son's condition, knowing that he'll likely die before she does. That was their first and oldest child.

In that case, what would a pro-spanker do? What would they think if not even physical punishment makes the person better and they are corrupted to the very end? What would be their solution in that case?

Updates

9 mo

So if they actually followed the ''spare the rod, spoil the kid'' and it still didn't work, what else would a pro-spanker do?

[DJB72]

My parents spanked me but never needed to after I was 3 so I don't actually remember it. The consequence is I now suffer from a condition known as "respect for others" because it wasn't over used. I wasn't even aware it had been needed.

I have smacked my son 3 times. Once when he ran away to stop him running into traffic, once for reaching up to a lit gas burner and once for trying to get into a bath with scalding hot water. It's not been something I've needed to do in 6 years and he's currently 7. Guess what three things he's never tried to do again...

[Vesuvius87]

So basically if a parent over uses spanking, still doing it when a child is much older and can already remember it's useless by then. They were still spanking him even when he was 13+ years old. Lastly, his father tried treating him like a man (him already being 17-18 years old) when he heard his son didn't want to study nor work and still into drugs. He yelled and punched him a couple times... but it was useless.
What could've his parents done differently? What would you have done in that case, if he's much older (definitely no longer a toddler nor little kid; but either a 12 year-old preteen or within his early teen years), getting into bad crowd, stealing, trying drugs and no amount of spanking makes it stop?

[DJB72]

Had a friend who had a church ministry helping young guys going off the rails.

He took them to Dartmoor Maximum Security Prison and got the guys doing life without parole to tell them why they'd been inside for forty years and more importantly what had happened during their first few months inside. He'd met these guys while he was inside for GBH.

It was extremely effective, but I'd suggest as a last resort.

[bingbongbangbung]

Ok in those cases, smacking your son was necessary; sadly most parents would hit their children simply for "talking back" or other BS

[DJB72]

I'm working in childcare at the moment. There's absolutely no reason to use that level of force against a child with the exception of a potentially life-threatening situation where not acting is going to make it more likely they'll get seriously hurt. Backchat doesn't meet that

[Vesuvius87]

@bingbongbangbung
What if no amount of smacking works and the older child doesn't really care about getting hit?

[DJB72]

Discipline starts before they can reason. It's basic behavioural psychology at that point. If they're old enough to not care about getting hit then 999 times out of 1000 it's because they've been hit so much it's abusive.

That's when they need the illusion of choice. Kids actually want boundaries. They look for them. So giving them a choice between two options sets a boundary, even if a third can be negotiated - pushing boundaries is normal and healthy. The key is to find positive consequences for a socially and morally acceptable choice and negative ones for the others. It's still basically Pavlovian psychology, but it works as long as the positive reinforcement is rewarded consistently.

You even find in adults it can work to change behaviours. Not to be too blunt, but if a wife nags her husband every time he leaves his clothes on the floor he stops hearing her, but if she gives him a blowjob every time he puts them straight in the laundry the chances are he'll go looking for other stuff he's missed.

With kids it's a bit different in terms of rewards - hopefully - but the principle is the same. Reward positives and if it's not life-or-death just ignore negative behaviour. It works.

[art84]

My nephew is similar whose 16 years old and decided to hang around the wrong crowd in middle school. Got sent to juvenile for 6 months last year. My mom basically took him under roof and raised him as a teenager. He has never been spanked though did rebel since his parents divorced when he was 4 years old. He is about to graduate in December hopefully and works. I don't believe in spanking children, some children are just stubborn and think they are tough and aren't afraid of consequences.

[Vesuvius87]

yeah neither my husband nor I will ever spank our baby boy. Ironically if a boss or supervisor were to hit us with a belt, sandals or extention cord every single time we mess up that would be battery. If an spouse does that, it's domestic violence. But whenever a parent (an adult) does it to a child, all of the sudden that's ''discipline''? Weird logic.

[katiesmuff]

That is something that generally doesn't work if overused. Mostly with our 4 kids they have been relatively good kids and haven't needed much discipline and maybe much of that comes from my husband and I spending so much of our time with them, doing things with them, keeping them busy with something other than a remote and tv, computer, ipad or iphone. Yes they get their time, but it's limited. They have always been treated with respect and for the most part it has been returned. All are excellent students.

[Vesuvius87]

I'm glad to hear things are working out with your kids and in the household. Cell phones and TV are indeed destructive thing for a child's mind. I plan on keeping my baby boy away from a cell at least until he's 10-12 years old.

[Vesuvius87]

It would be great if he never gets interested in Tiktok either. I've heard some teens are doing dumb stunts and end up getting hurt. For instance there was a stunt about the fire test and those teens ended up with 2nd and 3rd degree burns... all for a stupid Tiktok stunt.

[RandomGirl42]

That's a hard one. It sounds more like he needed help with addiction than discipline. As for myself and my sisters sometimes when mom was busy cooking or something and we would be trying to snatch a cookie a little swat on the bum got our attention much more than any words would have. But that was when we were really young and it didn't happen too often. And after that just the threat when grandma waved her wooden spoon would send us running. 🤣

[Vesuvius87]

I think it's embarrassing for them to still be spanking when they're teens. It's way too late by then.

[BonzoInBitburg]

I don't think hitting kids is a good idea anymore. We incentivized our kids when they made good choices and took away privileges when they made poor choices. Never raised our voices and never compromised. I was very strict but consistent when needed but also gave our kids more freedom when they proved they could handle it. They are all in their late 20s to early 30s and they are all educated and none of them have ever been unemployed for even 1 day.

[Vesuvius87]

Exactly. I really don't understand the need for an adult to take out their frustration and hit the child with household objects. It's been a practice that's so deeply embedded that it's difficult to remove the whole practice. They would have to kill the whole root to eradicate spanking, which isn't going to happen overnight.
My husband and I have resorted not to ever spank our baby boy when he gets older.

[BonzoInBitburg]

Incentivize good behavior and disincentivize bad behavior. Let them experience consequences without hitting and they'll be better prepared for adulthood.

[Gwendoline]

Not really what they mean when they say that. They mean if you let a child get away with bad behaviour unpunished the bad behaviour will get worse as they get older because they dont understand consequences or how to act correctly.

A phrase we would often use is that when you spoil a child you are cutting a stick to beat yourself with. We also say dont beat the spirit out of a child as tgey will need that when they grow up.

[Vesuvius87]

Thank you for the explaining. Now I'm wondering about the worse case scenario where the parents really did their job, never spoiled the child and as an adult, he/she is still rotten to the bone, never got straightened no matter what.
What would you do in that case?

[Vesuvius87]

There are exceptionally cases like that, where it's really not the parents' fault. They tried their best and the child is really a bad person.

[Gwendoline]

At some point a child becomes an adult and is responsible for their actions.

[Likes2drive]

Sometimes you just have a bad seed and nothing you can do will work except jail or rehabilitation and even that won’t work at times. Most personalities are developed by 3 years old. Spanking doesn’t always work and not necessary, a stern voice is usually all that’s needed if you raise them right by always being there for them and showing them love

[Vesuvius87]

I've indeed heard exceptional cases of a bad seed, where the parents really tried their best and the child is really a bad person in the end. Or cases where the child was born without the ability to ever feel empathy (brain wiring is different), making him/her a natural psychopath. Scary isn't it?

[Likes2drive]

That reminds me of a movie that Kevin Costner was in with the same condition

[OlderAndWiser]

Something went wrong long before the need for spanking arose.

[exitseven]

I did not spank my kids. i wanted them to be non violent.

[Vesuvius87]

Same here. I refused to spank. There will be no hitting in our household.

[roy_ricky09]

It all depends on the home kid lives in. They learn everything from parents and then from outside world. So...

[Vesuvius87]

He used raised at a time where a mother would mainly stayed at home, pop up to 5 kids and the father would come tired from work. The father would lay on the couch and asked to be given coffee and a newspaper.

[AngryCarl2]

If it doesn't work first time, carry on until it does.

[Vesuvius87]

and what about if they're adults and they're still bad to the bone? What else can be done if they're 18 or early 20's and still in stealing, still in gangs, still a bad person?

[AngryCarl2]

Not much you can do at that stage. You tried one thing and it didn't work. They are the judicial system's problem now.

[Vesuvius87]

Yup... by the time he reached adulthood, that guy's father threw the towel by then.

[Anonymous]

Cut them out of their estate if they don’t straighten out

[guesswhereivebeen]

Put down the rod and grab the little fucker by the neck

[MasterKS]

It never worked that way, i was evil as kid.