DISCLAIMER: I am not on either gender's "side" on this subject. I am simply speaking out on a topic that I feel I'd like to elaborate on. I am completely neutral and feel both genders contribute the topic of #creepshaming equally. I do not condone creepshaming, and I do not condone allowing the harassment of women or anyone else to avoid creepshaming. With that said, please enjoy the myTake.
Most of us by now are familiar with the term “creep shaming.” Essentially, the concept of creep shaming suggests that people (primarily men which will be the focus for this take) are being wrongly labeled as creeps for showing romantic interest in a woman, generally under the consensus that he is undesirable in some form (physical or non) and therefore is labeled a “creep.” The reason that I’ve decided to speak out about the subject is due to a string of insulting comments I have seen on G@G from anonymous male users who are continuously lashing out – whether or not the question or take is relevant to the subject – about how evil women are and how they label every “unattractive guy” a creep.
I actually somewhat agree.
This is what people need to understand: everybody is going to perceive things differently, and that is going to include your behaviors towards them. What may not be creepy to some may be incredibly creepy to others, such as overly persistent phone calls or texts, or showing up on someone’s lunch break every day to chat with them. In all honesty, there is no denying that a person’s interest and attraction to you may affect whether or not they find these advances endearing or off-putting.
But that doesn’t necessarily make you a creep, or deserving of being labeled such.
There is a distinct difference between a woman being creeped out by a guy or being made to feel uncomfortable; the distinct difference is that by being creeped out, this suggests that the man is overstepping boundaries in a way that comes across abnormal or very unwelcomed, whereas being made to feel uncomfortable is typically viewed as a mild-to-moderate distaste for the advances made by a man based on multiple things, ranging from attraction to general lack of interest. The issue that a lot of people have is differentiating from the two.
I do believe that there are men who are wrongfully labeled creeps, but what I feel they fail to realize that often when they are labeled creeps, it’s based typically off of an issue of identification OR a difference in perception, like I mentioned before. What may seem like a totally romantic gesture to you: leaving gifts, flowers, love notes etc on your interest’s doorstep every day may translate to another person as: this crazy obsessed stalker leaving a bunch of over-the-top gifts on my doorstep everyday, doesn’t he understand boundaries OR have anything else to do? You really may not be a creep at all, but your actions can be misconstrued if you are too aggressive or better put, just plain “too much.”
Do you get what I’m saying?
Now, obviously not all men are as over the top as the examples I gave you when they are labeled a creep. Some are no more than flirtatious, persistent, and interested in a person who doesn’t return the sentiment, and as a result, the person finds themselves put off or “creeped out” by their advances. This is an issue of identification. Meaning, this person is made to feel uncomfortable by the advances (typically for personal reasons) and therefore it translates to them as creepy and unwanted behavior. The only thing you can do in this situation, realistically, is to back off. If you go off about how they are wronging you or continue to persist, you can go quickly from the realm of wrongfully-labeled-creep to actual creep in less than a few words. I’m not saying that this treatment is fair, but I am saying that we can’t necessarily control how people will react to us, and all we can do is prove them wrong by behaving in a way that is the opposite of what they are wrongfully labeling you. And, of course, by creating mature discussion on the subject that sheds light on the misconceptions surrounding the topic, which is much more effective (in my experience) than lashing out.
I will however say to all women out there to be careful who you throw the creep label at, because just like women who don’t appreciate being called sluts when they feel their actions aren’t indicative as such (such as wearing more revealing clothing or being sexually expressive), men don’t appreciate being called creeps just for asking you for your number. Save it for when a guy is really being creepy, not for a guy who simply isn’t your type.
Of course, if you feel that anyone is making you feel uncomfortable you are at your rights to tell them to leave you alone, I’m not suggesting you become passive to any unwanted actions taken against you, I am however suggesting you do so in a respectful and safe manner unless aggressive action is necessary. If something makes you uncomfortable or creeped out, regardless of the degree, you have the right to refuse or rebut those advances and remove yourself from the situation.
If you are still sought after or this person continues to persist, then yes, he’s a creep and you need to take more aggressive action or flee.
Moving on, I’m going to answer a question: Does being unattractive truly make you creepy? Yes and no. Like I said before, being unattractive can make your advances uncomfortable, and, subsequently, give someone a creeped out feeling, which is really nothing more than lack of appeal and awkwardness. However, I would be lying to you if I said your appearance can’t make you look like a creep.
So if you have a dead expression and look like a classic pedophile meme with an adept inability to groom and bathe yourself, yes, you run the risk of visually being labeled a creep. Does that suggest though that attractive men can’t be creeps? No, it doesn’t. While some women may be more accepting of the advances of a man who is more attractive, that doesn’t suggest that if he goes full-blown-creep-stalker-I-wanna-sniff-and-eat-your-hair-while-I-pet-your-feet that his behavior is going to be totally acceptable, even if it’s in a lesser degree. Women can still find attractive guys creepy as fuck. Remember, everyone will perceive their interactions with others differently.
I hope you all found this to be an interesting read, I had fun writing it as usual and I hope it wasn’t too choppy for you guys to follow. I hope I didn’t offend anybody with this as I had no intentions of doing so. I just wanted to shed my personal opinion on the subject.
As a quick PSA: To anyone who is made to feel uncomfortable, while I do support shaming people for being creeps, I do not condone accepting behavior that makes you feel uncomfortable regardless of the degree. While I do advocate that every situation is treated with tact, I do not suggest you allow someone to make you feel uncomfortable in any degree. A polite rejection is typically enough for most and the method I tend to suggest, but if someone persists and begins making you extremely uncomfortable, take action and keep yourself safe above the feelings of that person.
With all of this said, have yourself a great week, guys. I look forward to hearing your opinions on #creepshaming and am curious to see how we can better understand and perhaps remedy the negative effects of creepshaming and the avoidance of harassment, which is an equal cause.
#CreepShaming ~ The Difference Between Being a Creep & Being Uncomfortable
Firstly, very intellectually honest and courageous of you to admit that being physically unattractive can make someone seem like a creep. It is surprising to me how many women are unwilling to admit this, even when polls taken right here on GAG say otherwise.
What I would like to address is that if someone has bad genetics (I'm not talking grooming here), he is more likely to be called a creep. My question to you is why do you seem to feel, RJGraveytrain, that there's nothing that can be done about this beyond acting a certain way? I believe there IS something that can be done about this (and I'm doing it by teaching my children that it is SHAMEFUL AND WRONG to label people negatively based solely on appearance). SAY SOMETHING about it. One of the more conservative polls on GAG said that about 5% of women have at one time or another labeled a man creepy FOR HIS LOOKS ONLY (another said 40%). What this means is if you know twenty women or more, than statistically it's probable that you know a woman who has labeled a man a creep for nothing more than his appearance. SO SAY SOMETHING. Tell her it's shameful. It makes her a more cruel person. It makes the world a worse place. No, I don't believe there's nothing that can be done. YOU CAN SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING. No one on GAG seems to ever talk about this (for some odd reason). If a girlfriend of yours labels someone a creep due to nothing more than his appearance, SAY SOMETHING. It's often true that silence implies consent, so don't be silent. SAY SOMETHING.
I have a friend I've known since high school who has FAS, and he has been called a creep or creepy for nothing more than his appearance, AND MY WIFE SAID SOMETHING, which makes her a helluvalot better than those who say nothing.
As for those who are often being labeled a creep, reconsider your behavior. As for those who are unjustly labeled creeps, I suggest you don't give a shit. As for women who overhear their girlfriends unjustly labeling someone a creep, SAY SOMETHING.
What if you are being a creep, but you don't know you are being a creep and don't believe in it. By your advice you would just not give a shit and continue being it.
Let's face it, most creeps don't know they're being it.
As for what to DO about it, it's easy to just declare that we should just stop it. And that when false-creep-labeling happens, women should step up and identify the perpetrators of it.
The problem is, that's an awfully high bar to set. That would require ALL three of the following things: (1) deconstruction of feelings that are mostly subconscious, AND (2) trenchant self-awareness, AND (3) an on-the-spot, apples-to-apples comparison with the same situation involving a hypothetical more-attractive guy.
You see the problem, right?
I mean, obviously, there are some things that are OBJECTIVELY creepy ("I have a gun get in the van"). But, those things are few, far between, and easily identifiable. Beyond that, it's a gray area that's just gray af. One woman's boldness is another's rapey creepyness.
I mean, hell yeah, I'll call my girlfriends out on it if I see them doing this. But that's only because I know THEM really well, and for some reason I have a weirdly long memory for this kind of stuff. So, I can actually remember when they found the same sort of thing endearing from X other attractive guy -- even if that was some years ago -- and toss that example out there. That's the ONLY grounds on which I can actually make that criticism. I can't call a girl out on the basis of MY standards, because my standards are mine and not hers, and I'm not presumptuous like that. Right?
So, to self-identify this behavior, a woman has to have all 3 of the traits I identified above.
To call a girlfriend out on it CREDIBLY, a girl has to have the kind of long memory I'm talking about.
That's really the problem here. People are gna say the problem is "women have hive-mind mentality bla bla bla", and, sure, that's PART of the problem -- women tend to play for Team Woman and excuse each other's shitty rationales. But, the other part of the problem is that the criteria for honesty are so seldom met.
@redeyemindtricks I have to say, your opinions sometimes bring a smile to my face. Often the most insightful comment on the thread… as in this case.
That's the trick, isn't it? I think you've made a good and honest attempt to deconstruct what are mostly unconscious emotional reactions. And, well, as have I, and it's disheartening how long it takes.
It makes me think that maybe people under 25 (30? Never in some cases?) will be doomed to uninsightful behaviour, simply because it takes so long to understand your own unconscious, even in a superficial way.
Well, glad that makes you smile -- I mean, that means you aren't TOO jaded with the world, then, at least. For a lot of people, the most insightful comments are the ones that make them wince most painfully, or regret things most wistfully. LOL
I think a lot of people are better than yr giving them credit for, when it comes to breaking down situations from an outsider's point of view. The problem is, most people don't consult outsiders. (: Or, they consult large groups of outsiders (e. g. big gaggles of girlfriends or bros). In that case you have the all-too-familiar effect of group polarization, in which the group often gives worse advice than any single individual would give on his/her own.
I think yr right about the effect you've described in yr last paragraph, but, "takes too long to understand" is only part of the equation. The other -- and probably more important -- part is that hormones, and thus emotions, are just stronger at younger ages.
There's not many things on here that women write, that I actually agree with or even make any logical sense but this is an acception to that. Anything you write on here, you seem to come from it at a common sense and logical perspective. You see things from both angles and write things in a way that you can get the point and it actually makes sense.
So, I don't know if I agree with everything but I do agree with many things you said and I thought it was very good and well written take. Good job :)
Now, I want to say a quick few a things.
I do agree a lot of things in life is about perception and everybody see's things different, especially when it comes to attraction and relationships. I also agree that, people don't really understand the difference between a creep and being uncomfortable. I sometimes think we just have all this buzz words for things and people just use it even if it doesn't apply. So, though we are all entitled to feel however we want. We should also analyze the sitution and see if the person is really being a creepy in the full sense of the word or if they are just make you feel uncomfortable and put you on the spot and you don't know what to say. There is a difference and it's best to learn what they are, because it's not right to label someone (in general) but it's definitely not right to label someone something they are not.
People don't understand, how people view us is how we sometimes view ourselves. So, if enough women call enough men "a creep" to his face, even if he is not one. Eventually, he may actually start to believe it and just give up altogether because he'll feel he's "a creep" and no one will want him. So, I think honesty is the best policy and if someone is coming on too strong, just tell them that in tactful manner because maybe they aren't aware of it. It's better to make them aware of how their actions are percived by others, so they can work on changing their approach on things, then it is to label them a "creep" for no actual reason.
@loveisbeautiful That much is true. In some ways, this is why there aren't more awesome guys out there. The feedback from females, collectively, is next to useless for males. The word "creep" doesn't actually convey much meaning, it needs to be unpacked in details (i. e. what does creepy behaviour look like?)
Obviously, yes, I know what creep behaviour is, but what about the younger lads?
Though you said you are on neither person's side this take is about men being creeps, so yeah obviously I'll be addressing that here. I also don't consider being on either side, but just like what you talk about in this take my opinion may be perceived a certain way or another. In any case here's what I think.
I guess the consensus here is that being "overbearing" or as you put it "too much" is a bad thing. That this is where the creep label comes from. Has to do with obsession. Unless that person is a GF/BF they shouldn't do a whole lot. They should keep things plain so to speak.
The problem with that is that in a man's case just like plenty of women are taught that how they look matters (it does to a degree) plenty of men are taught to have certain quality personality traits. This is why so many women are insecure about their bodies as opposed to men. I've done polls (granted it was on this site) where both men and women agree that women are more insecure about their bodies than men. To say nurture isn't real is blasphemy (not saying you said that just bare with me).
So that takes me to men. Men are pressured into having certain personality traits (yeah I know I already said that). What are these? One is humor. Laughing a way into a girl's heart. Another is confidence, and that's the focus here. Often times women want a confident man. A man who "knows what he wants and goes and gets it." Perhaps this is where it's common social norm for the guy to approach the girl? I think so.
So what's the problem though? The problem is how do we gauge that? You said it yourself that people perceive things differently. What's creepy to one person may just be sexy confidence to another. This is why some men go "overboard" so to speak.
With that said though some guys naturally are confident people. May have nothing to do with pressure or maybe just a little, but personality wise they may just be very confident. Just like some women may have a flirtatious personality naturally. Can't really help either case, and should you? It's who they are.
Which takes me to my next point. You say people shouldn't lash out when they are treated in a way that may or may not be fair. Well just like the person who reacted to the advances of the other person a certain way why can't the person who's advancing react in their own way? Why should it be one sided? Will they continue to be seen as a creep by the other person?
2
18 Reply
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Yeah probably, but just like the person who's creeped out can't help it neither can the person advancing. Both are people regardless. It's logical to be creeped out by something that's creepy to you and it's logical to be upset when you feel you're not being a creep and the other person feels you are. These emotional reactions are human and logical. I don't condone changing by the way unless that person did things that isn't like them to begin with.
I really really didn't like this (which is why I put it last in my discussion "So if you have a dead expression and look like a classic pedophile meme with an adept inability to groom and bathe yourself, yes, you run the risk of visually being labeled a creep. Does that suggest though that attractive men can’t be creeps? No, it doesn’t."
It's nit picky though on my part, because often times I do have a dead expression on my face. Another quality that plenty women seem to want is a guy who smiles a lot. I don't. It's not who I am, and
it's not necessarily unattractive. I've gave blank expressions to girls and they've still been attracted to me. Plenty of girls couldn't tell if I was happy or sad or angry and yet still were attracted to me. Maybe it's other qualities that I have, but it's not necessarily unattractive to look this way.
Again nit picky on my part, so you can disregard that part if you want. It just got under my skin some.
"while I do support shaming people for being creeps" Was that a spelling error?
This is a nice take, but I'd like for people to address female creeps.
There are pressures for both men and women to behave a certain way, that goes without saying. I personally believe though that social appropriateness is a topic that isn't that hard to grasp, such as not over stepping people's boundaries or being inappropriate. As for how to gauge that, it's difficult because I can tell you how but it won't apply to everyone. You have to rely on your own sense of what is appropriate for someone to do to another person.
I think everybody needs to learn how to handle the whole "creep" issue better. If someone creeps you out, yes, I don't agree you should lash out. I believe everybody, to a point, needs to be respectful in any situation where someone is trying to court you. If that person becomes inappropriate and goes too far, to me that warrants more stern action for the sake of deterring the behavior and avoiding becoming a victim. But when I say this, this refers to extreme cases, not every day cases of being hit on by a guy you simply don't like.
The only real way to avoid being creepy in my opinion is exactly what you said: don't overdo it, keep things simple until things develop more. Meaning if someone is not returning your advances, rejects your advances, or seems uncomfortable then you stop. If someone wrongfully labels you a creep, like I said, the only thing you can truly do is move on. Turning around and lashing out at them falls back to the good old saying "two wrongs don't make a right." I personally believe in being the bigger person, so that often means taking things on the chin and doing the right thing instead of the thing that'd give you temporary satisfaction.
As for the deadpan expression thing, it was an extreme example that was more meant to be a light-hearted joke. I am not saying everyone with a blank expression is a creep.
As for female creeps if I had more experience on the subject I would happily write about it, but unfortunately I don't have first-hand experience with it and therefore wouldn't be the proper authority on it. You're at your discretion however to write about it if you want.
You have a point. Just like pressures towards each gender is a social norm so is how we are to conduct ourselves.
Regardless though people have their own tolerances. There are things I can handle that other people can't. There are things I can't handle that other people can. Again each person is different like we've talked about. Lashing out is an emotional response reflective of personality typically. Again lashing out at what? Something that one person can't tolerate?
I guess what I'm getting at here is that I understand both sides here.
I absolutely see your point which is why I tried to shed light the best I could on both perspectives: while creep shaming is not okay and I do not condone it I do not condone people being accepting of behavior that makes them uncomfortable either. Does this suggest that they can be a total asshole. The only time I suggest anybody gets aggressive with someone making them uncomfortable is in extreme situations.
As for lashing out, what I am referring to is extremely inappropriate behavior. Like, VERY inappropriate behavior, such as groping, extremely inappropriate or threatening remarks, etc.
Oh sexual assault or sexual harassment? Yeah of course that's creepy, but that's a criminal as well. If you're talking criminal activity then okay.
It's just I understand that everybody be it the person advancing or not react to things in their own way. I've been mad at small things that females would think is meaningless. On the other hand there are things that some females care about and get upset about that I really don't care about.
As far as rejection me personally I can typically handle it so long the female is honest about it. If she flakes but kinda leaves things open ended then no I probably won't yell at her, but I would be upset.
On the other hand some guys may rather a female flake on him and just quit on him than to actually come out and say something.
Neither me nor the other guy is wrong for feeling that way. Does that warrant for criminal activity? No, but just like that anger is also expressed differently.
" If someone wrongfully labels you a creep, like I said, the only thing you can truly do is move on. Turning around and lashing out at them falls back to the good old saying "two wrongs don't make a right." I personally believe in being the bigger person, so that often means taking things on the chin and doing the right thing instead of the thing that'd give you temporary satisfaction."
It's not about the temporary satisfaction, it's about calling people out on bullshit behaviour which will hopefully create a better environment in the future.
" If someone wrongfully labels you a creep, like I said, the only thing you can truly do is move on."
I strongly disagree. You can poin out that the person is being rude and cruel. You don't need to name call. You don't need to shout.
"Turning around and lashing out at them falls back to the good old saying "two wrongs don't make a right." "
Calmly pointing out that someone is being rude and cruel is NOT "lashing out" and is the right thing to do. Thus it is NOT a case of two wrongs, it is the case of one wrong and one right.
"I personally believe in being the bigger person, so that often means taking things on the chin and doing the right thing instead of the thing that'd give you temporary satisfaction."
Taking things on the chin does NOT make you a bigger person in many cases. In many cases, it makes you an idiot who is inviting more reprehensible behavior. Silence is often construed as consent. Don't lash out, but don't be silent either. For God's sake, say something.
@ArtDent Indeed, just like speaking out about ANY injustice is not about temporary satisfaction, it's about trying to make people be better to one another.
Yeah nice purple pill attempt. But it won't change the root causes of these double standards in society. As for men they should 1) become conscious about how to protect themselves from such situations. 2) to learn to not take women's judgments seriously. She could have a bad day. The timing could be terrible. She could be mentally disturbed or socially awkward or autistic and not read social subtleties. it is a funny meaningless game. it only gets serious if she unjustifiably calls the cops on you, and thus we loop to no1 to teach men how to protect themselves from such scenarios.
The way I see it is this: If a man is obviously going too far or doing blatantly predatory things, then he deserves the label.
But if the woman could easily end an innocent pursuit by a man herself with a little simple honesty; yet she chooses to instead be deceitful and then send a mob after the man to shut him down with threats and violence, then she's the real creep.
Very intelligent take - It makes so much sense and like yourself can see both sides of the situation - I also agree that if a person is feeling uncomfortable they should express the view that a person is making them feel uncomfortable rather than using the term creep but also that if a person who is making a person very uncomfortable oversteps the mark, they are really move into the territory of creeping.
The word creepy does get thrown around and misused quite a bit.
As far as the whole an attractive guy's advances being endearing while an unattractive guy's advances are creepy, it works the same with girls to but they are labeled differently. For example, a girl might be ok with an attractive girl being overzealous, rushing into things, etc where they might think an unattractive girl who's being overzealous and rushing into things is a psycho or clingy.
I completely agree. There are plenty of people who judge the romantic actions of an unattractive man as creepy but would not do the same if he was attractive.
Awesome MyTake, girlie!
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
what I find to be creepy is when a guy on the kik messenger app asked me a question wanting to no how big my boobs were and I told him I wasn't gonna answer that question and I told him he was making me feel creeped out and uncomfortable. but when guys ask questions like those are the type of questions I find to be creepy
The problem s that an awful lot of girls label MOST guys systematically as creeps--or worse. It's not a question of them just overreacting to guys who approach them...
Nice take. Perhaps the summary might be "no means no. Once you get a solid 'no' go away. If she seems evasive or expresses disinterest, take the hint. Otherwise you risk entering The Creeper Zone"?
If a gal were that honest in rejecting me upfront ever, I would say "thank you for the clarity," and would probably never speak to her again. I could not hope to be so blessed with a straight answer upfront.
Where I live, girls prefer to give answers of "maybe." Which leads to me saying: "Very well. Take care," and then excusing myself.
Cue some random figure showing up minutes later, when I'm minding my own business, and then cornering and threatening me, as I'm standing there looking very confused, and getting very angry.
It's happened way too many times that way. I would never take pursuit of a woman to the crazy extremes of the guy in this video. Yet, I've been treated far worse for doing far, far less.
I've had people get uncomfortable around me before and all I did was stand there but than again I was angry and tired or looked like a complete mess lol
but I've been taking care of myself more so im getting a more positive reaction from people
I know. Been there, done that. When women have bad days and look like a total mess, strangers garner sympathy on them. When we have bad days and look like a total mess, everyone assumes we're serial killers.
I'm not a creep. but I've def fucked up before and was kinky too fast. some laugh it off. others block. but i never mean harm i just have hardly no experience of real life dating.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
There is no excuse for bitch behavior and all your highly offensive rejections/interactions. We are not your dogs or your slaves.
I never stated such sir. I don't condone people behaving in such a way and that was the primary purpose of this take. I don't support slavery either, but that should go without saying for most people.
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