Rigid Masculine Gender Role Adherence & The Connection to Violence and Hostility Against Women

AmandaYVR

A message I received today...

"you young lady deserve a thurough raping so you can learn the value of a strong police force. maybe if something bad happens to your family or your vagina you'll understand why law and order is more important than kindness or human life"

Art by: shadowrenegade6785
Art by: shadowrenegade6785

This is what females deal with on a daily basis. Pieces of **** like this reminding us that there are still, in 2020, plenty of men who feel it is their right, their privilege, maybe even their duty, to inform, explain, and teach what our meagre little female brains are not getting, not understanding about the world, and, we get insulted, attacked, and violence threatened against us, to boot. You thumb thug, you emotionally stunted imbecile, do you feel strong and powerful now? Did you get all your angst out? Do you feel like a big man with a big ****? I am cowering, bowing down in the presence of how manly you are. You're so strong and wise. You are a real man, a man of all men, a man other men should model themselves after. So thank you. Thank you for helping me to see the error of my ways. What ever will I do to repay you? You speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Right?

Well I've got news for you, sorry to disappoint you, but you don't intimidate me, not one bit. All you do is remind me that we women have a long road ahead of us, a long way to go, a lot more to do, to not be demeaned, demoralized, treated like human beings of equal value without the threat of violence or intimidation, or like a vessel in which you may do as you please. "Kindness and human life"... pffft. The nerve of me, to care about the life of a man I never met, to feel sadness and sympathy and sorrow for him. We women, we are so callous. That's why we always vote in favour of equal human rights.

I will never leave the internet because of people like you, I will never bow down to people like you, and you will not silence my voice. We're 51% of the population. Without us there would be no more humans. Like it or not, the future human race needs both of us. We have to share this planet and co-exist, but guess what, we don't have to f*** you. We'll choose the other guys, the real men, the honourable ones that you are not. And you're pissed about that, aren't you? You're masking your rejection with hostility and intimidation, but it's not working, is it? Why does feminism still exist... because of people like you.

You know nothing about me. You know nothing about my "family", my "vagina", what I know, or what I have been through, but I know about you. I read, I research, I listen, I talk, I engage, and I think.

So this, "young man" is dedicated to you...

Other Men, Take Note: This is not directed towards you, the vast majority of good, decent, sane, level-headed, reasonable, and sometimes great men of the world, and of G@G. Nowhere in this will you see "all men..." or make any such broad-based generalizations or dismissive caricatures that demean all men. I assure you, I have the ability to distinguish between good and bad, and many people in between. However, there are some men, certain men, who act consistently and unnecessarily hostile, angry, aggressive, antagonistic, and who threaten or wish acts of violence like rape upon us, and it is them that this is about:

Thus Always to Tyrants
'Thus Always to Tyrants'

Hegemony: Leadership or dominance, especially by one state or social group, over others; The three main features of hegemony are leadership, power and dominance.

So, do you like my picture? How does it feel? Good, right? Someone's got to be on top, right? Law and order. Balance of power. Alpha-beta-omega, and all that shite. Leaders and followers. Doms and subs. Feminism is about power and taking over, taking control, right? 'An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.' Do I believe in all this, abide by this? Go on, take a guess.

A large body of research has taken place identifying determinants of male perpetrated violence against women and developing interventions to reduce it. Despite these efforts, men's use of aggression against women remains prevalent. In a study sample of unmarried heterosexual men, Abbey, Parkhill, BeShears, Clinton-Sherrod, and Zawacki (2006) nearly 25% of participants reportedly perpetrated at least one act of attempted or completed rape. 10% of college men reported that they had physically aggressed against their most recent female dating partner at least once during their relationship (Luthra & Gidycz, 2006). Furthermore, estimates from national samples indicate that over 20% of heterosexual women report being physically assaulted by a husband or male cohabitating partner at some point in their lifetime (Tjaden & Thoennes, 2000). One factor pertinent to male-perpetrated aggression against women is the misogynistic attitudinal set of hostility toward women. A clear link exists between hostility toward women and subsequent aggression toward women.

Rape is a product of men's extreme adherence to a masculine gender role that encourages men to be dominant and “manly” and women to be passive and “feminine” (Murnen, Wright, & Kaluzny, 2002). Indeed, this view has been recognized for decades and is well articulated by Burt's (1980) conclusion that “rape is the logical and psychological extension of a dominant-submissive, competitive, sex role stereotyped culture.” Accordingly, pertinent theory suggests that male-perpetrated aggression against women is, in many cases, a product of socialization pressures to adhere to hegemonic masculinity (O'Neil, Helms, Gable, David, & Wrightsman, 1986). Hegemonic masculinity is a kind of masculinity that promotes male dominance over women (Connell, 2005; Smith & Kimmel, 2005). Specifically, Connell (2005) defines hegemonic masculinity as “the configuration of gender practice which embodies the currently accepted answer to the problem of the legitimacy of patriarchy, which guarantees (or is taken to guarantee) the dominant position of men and the subordination of women.” Prior research has explicitly suggested that the masculine gender role is not monolithic; rather that multiple “masculinities” and dimensions of those masculinities exist. Hence, it is not a unidimensional masculine gender role that is linked to violence, but rather specific types of masculinity.


A growing body of evidence suggests that men who hold traditional beliefs about the male gender role are at risk to experience stress in situations where this role is challenged (Cosenzo, Franchina, Eisler, & Krebs, 2004; Eisler, Franchina, Moore, Honeycutt, & Rhatigan, 2000; Franchina, Eisler, & Moore, 2001; Good et al., 1995). This tendency to experience gender-relevant stress is commonly referred to as masculine gender role stress (MGRS) (Eisler & Skidmore, 1987; Eisler, Skidmore, & Ward, 1988). Masculine gender role stress refers to men's tendency to experience negative psychological (e.g., insecurity, low self-esteem, increased anger) and physiological effects (e.g., increased cardiovascular reactivity and skin conductance) from their attempts to meet societally-based standards of the male role. Men who adhere to hegemonic masculine gender role guidelines expect others (e.g., women) to submit to these roles as well. Not surprisingly, masculine gender role stress has been directly associated with men's aggression against women (Copenhaver, Lash, & Eisler, 2000; Eisler et al., 2000; Franchina et al., 2001; Jakupcak et al., 2002; Moore et al., 2008). Importantly, evidence suggests that masculine gender role stress is a more direct predictor of men's behavior than specific norms of masculine ideologies (Thompson, Pleck, & Ferrera, 1992). As such, it should follow that masculine gender role stress influences or accounts for the relation between pertinent norms of hegemonic masculinity and aggression toward women. Indeed, research has found that endorsement of hegemonic male gender role beliefs predicted aggression against women among men who also reported high levels of masculine gender role stress (Jakupcak et al., 2002).

This data is supported by relevant theories in the violence against women literature. For instance, men who manifest insecure and defensive feelings in their relationships with women may use sexual aggression to regain their sense of power and control (Malamuth, Sockloskie, Koss, & Tanaka, 1991; Malamuth et al., 1995). Accordingly, sexual aggression may act to offset any perceived masculinity threat (e.g., personal inferiority) these men may feel. Similarly, men may develop hostile attitudes toward women and aggress against them as a way to attenuate feelings of personal weakness and uncertainty and, ultimately, to displace their state of stressful discontent (Cowan & Mills, 2004). From this, it is reasonable to contend that masculine gender role stress reflects men's tendency to experience the insecurity, defensiveness, personal weakness, and stressful discontent that may be a central motivation for hostility and aggression toward women.

In other words, when these subgroups of men experience gender-relevant stress, attitudinally “lashing out” toward women may function to manage or reduce this stress. This finding is consistent with pertinent literature indicating that men's hostility and aggression toward women functions to reaffirm their sense of dominance and power (Cowan & Mills, 2004; Malamuth et al., 1991; Malamuth, et al., 1995). Thus, hostility and aggression toward women presumably alleviates feelings (e.g., insecurity, defensiveness, personal weakness, stressful discontent) that are posited to comprise state gender role stress (Cowan & Mills, 2004; Malamuth et al., 1991; Malamuth et al., 1995). It should be noted that all men, regardless of the extent to which they subscribe to different masculinities, may encounter gender-relevant situations and experience gender-relevant stress in these situations. Nevertheless, the present findings suggest that men who subscribe to these norms of hegemonic masculinity are more prone to experience gender role stress, a greater intensity of gender role stress, and to cope with that stress in ways that reassert male dominance over women (e.g., hostile attitudes toward women).

Much progress has been made to foster egalitarian relationships between men and women; consequently, men who still believe in the dominance of the male gender may harbor hostile attitudes toward women because they feel their control over women is declining.

So, The 3 Main Takeaways Are:

1. Hegemonic masculine gender role norms have been linked to men's physical and sexual aggression against women (Copenhaver et al., 2000; Eisler et al., 2000; Franchina et al., 2001; Jakupcak et al., 2002; Moore et al., 2008; O'Neil et al., 1986)

2. Stress men feel when they encounter violations of the traditional male role contributes to the development of hostile and domineering attitudes toward women (Malamuth et al., 1995).

3. Men who espouse a “tough” persona endorse hostile attitudes toward women, and hostile attitudes toward other men, for that matter, regardless of their sensitivity to gender-relevant threats.

In layman's terms - they're acting hostile because they feel weak and inferior.

Ronda Rousey, MMA Fighter Champion
Ronda Rousey, MMA Fighter Champion
Rigid Masculine Gender Role Adherence & The Connection to Violence and Hostility Against Women
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Most Helpful Guy

  • ttnnkkrr
    this has nothing to do with masculinity except to define what is not. anyone that uses fear or intimidation or some manner of degredation to attempt to... no it doesn't matter what they think they are doing. this is a manifestation of psychological abhorrence. there's no need to even dignify it with a reaction.

    masculinity is living in service of wellbeing of family and community. accepting risk of adverse conditions in front of those he serves. selflessly and without expectaion of reward. a sense of duty.

    anything outside of this is not only not masculine but as it pertains to male genders indicates emotional adolescence.
    Is this still revelant?
    • AmandaYVR

      I am not personally particularly interested in the whole concept of masculinity (or femininity, all that much either.)
      What does anger me is some men blaming women for the 'de-masculizing of men', or using idiotic phrases like 'toxic masculinity', neither of which I subscribe to.
      So if you and I take the word 'masculinity' out of this as an overarching word, and instead relabel it as, as you suggested, 'psychological abhorrence', I would actually be fine with that.
      I did not come up with this theory. Dozens and dozens of experts in the field did. To me, the most interesting takeaway, which I would like people to know and consider, is that at the root, "In layman's terms - they're acting hostile because they feel weak and inferior." So call that what you will; if it doesn't have the word masculinity tied to it, fine with me, honestly.

      I think you made fair points and I thank you for your contribution.

    • ttnnkkrr

      what i loved was the objective and objectively layered data driven journey you walked through. i am far too lazy for all of that 😜. and yes a sense of inferiority does drive emotionally adolecent males to do some really mean things. what is further illustrated and frankly true is the very brittle state of these males. that said males of all stages are in truth quite emotionally vulnerable. our fathers are supposed to demonstrate emotional durability not absense of emotion. so many males instead of learning the distinction instead try to pretend we are un feeling rather tgan actually develop healthy coping mechanisms and a support system.. assuming we had a father at all.
      what i find interesting is the all but vacated concept of social rituals around becoming an adult. rights of passage. about taking ownership and responsibility and being capable of understanding the lack of value in assigning blame. blame is nearly always an act of self sabotage. it rebukes free will, dismisses the power to make new choices and allows us to absolve ourselves of the effort in personal growth.
      anyway, there are so many mindless rants suppoeting spoonfed narratives in this and other forums. very few can do what you have done and accept responsibility as tge reciever for what you do next and instead of applying blame choose to understand and self embark the journey of personal growth. even more rare is compiling this growth for others. thank you for once i am a little better off for something on tge internet

    • AmandaYVR

      Beautifully said. You are quite the writer.
      I especially liked the, "our fathers are supposed to demonstrate emotional durability not absense of emotion. so many males instead of learning the distinction instead try to pretend we are unfeeling rather than actually develop healthy coping mechanisms and a support system..."

      "blame is nearly always an act of self sabotage. it rebukes free will, dismisses the power to make new choices and allows us to absolve ourselves of the effort in personal growth."
      Interesting. I had not heard this. I will definitely be thinking about this more.

      And thank you. Much appreciated.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • G3tAClue
    I’ve received multiple “get raped” messages on here as well by trolling angry men who have nothing better to do. They are sad, you are not. Remember that you are the better person for not saying such childish things.
    Is this still revelant?
    • AmandaYVR

      I'm going to paste your other comment here for you, G3. It is also worth highlighting.

      "See this is the problem. These threats and horrible interacts happen very regularly on the internet but many guys don’t take what me and @AmandaYVR seriously. Look it up dude, it’s a real problem and is only becoming bigger and more serious. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean anything.

      I did an experiment and made a blue account on here to see just how differently guys talk to me, and the difference is ASTOUNDING. Coming from the blue accounts that regularly threaten women, instead, I got instant respect and was taken seriously for everything I said even though it was the same shit I was saying as a pink account."

    • I think these scumbags should be named and shamed.

    • Unit1

      They are most likely hating women. Biological failures. If i were a pink, i wouldn't hesitate to block half of GAG or half of internet users in general if i received such disrespect even just once.

    • Show All

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What Girls & Guys Said

1364
  • MrOracle
    First of all, you need to understand that the reply you received was a TROLL, from an angry man who is tired of being blamed for things that only a tiny fraction of men do, and who returned the extreme reply both to show you how it feels to be attacked at a very base level, to express his anger and frustration at being demonized for being male, and to troll you into overreacting just as you did.

    Masculinity is not the problem and never has been. The problem is people not taking responsibility for their own actions and behavior, and for teaching their children those same poor values and often for actively protecting them from the consequences of their actions, and pushing the blame on someone else. It's called Moral Relativism. And that's not at all exclusive to men.

    Feminism has been pushing to feminize men for 50 years, and it's created far more problems than it's solved, and women have never been more unhappy. Few women are actually attracted to or respect feminized men, and they've begun to complain about it - but it was largely the women of their mother's and grandmother's generations who are responsible.
    • MrOracle

      I should add here, that while I find that guys' reply absolutely reprehensible, and unacceptable, it's also quite clear that it was Internet blather that he'd never speak in person. He IS weak, and is trying to put on what he thinks is some kind of a strong facade - but he's fooling no one. Still, what I wrote above is the truth.

      You list that "masculine masculine gender role norms have been linked to men's physical and sexual aggression against women" and cite a bunch of extremely biased feminist studies - but "linked" is a fairly meaningless connection in the first place. That's like "linking" women with birth defects, implying that women were the cause of them, because of the "link." Those studies can't even point out a more specific causal relationship with this violence, even in part, much less can they point to it as being a primary reason.

      I could commission studies that "link" women raising boys as single mothers with rape and sexual aggression, and I bet I would get a far more conclusive causal relationship from that study, but no one is willing to do that research because it doesn't fit the narrative.

    • MrOracle

      The vast majority of men are STRONGLY opposed to rapists, and if they stumbled across a rape in progress, I would fear for the rapist's life, because most men would be likely to beat him to death. But that protection mechanism is very much part of masculinity. All of the mechanisms that protect you and enforce laws are masculine in nature. To object to them is incredibly short-sighted, and will have dire consequences for you down the road, if not already.

      It's very similar to "defund the police" - people are supporting this, and then are horrified when mobs come and smash and loot their stores and graffiti their homes and set fire to their cars - and the police don't show up to help them because their funding was cut. You are advocating for a world that you absolutely would not want to live in by blaming something all men share because of the behavior of a tiny percentage of men, instead of figuring out why THOSE SPECIFIC MEN did what they did.

    • AmandaYVR

      Blah blah blah. I lost interest after you blamed women and "Feminism has been pushing to feminize men for 50 years, and it's created far more problems than it's solved"

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  • Lliam
    "you young lady deserve a thurough raping so you can learn the value of a strong police force. maybe if something bad happens to your family or your vagina you'll understand why law and order is more important than kindness or human life"
    OMG!!! Someone actually said that?

    I'm seething. This makes me so angry that I hardly know what to say. My immediate thoughts go to fantasies of what to do about such creatures.

    I LOVE masculinity. These creatures are not masculine. They don't even qualify as homo sapiens.
    I LOVE femininity. I treasure women. I want them to feel safe to fully engage in society with confidence and their heads held high. Without such women, the world would be gloomy and colorless. Yet these emissaries of darkness would destroy that.

    I often marvel at the fact that women are plucky enough to trust men at all. Taking a chance in bed with being who is larger, stronger and more aggressive must take courage. Amazingly women value those masculine traits. Why would someone spoil that?

    Thanks for this MyTake, Amanda. I'm WITH you!
    • AmandaYVR

      Thank you, dear Lliam. 💛🙏

    • For sure, humans as a whole (be it male or female) have good and bad sides.

    • mindNsoul

      @Lliam The sad thing is that this is the third time I see it here on G@G. A male user using rape as a tool of argument (intimidation) against a female user. Never once I saw a male user using that logic against another male. I am just stating my observation. Why do you think is that if it's not a demonstration of dominance? I am only asking you because I actually respect your views and your reasonable outlook.

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  • Regmorus
    Thank you. This convinced me ultimately (together with some other evidence collected in the latter time) that the male aggression that is directed exactly and explicitly against women is a real thing. (not only in some muslimic countries)

    I feel really sorry for you for having received such message. I can't imagine how one feels when something like this happens.

    I think that different men show different reactions when they feel like their traditional role as man or their masculinity itself is endagered. And the reaction some particular individuals show is determined by who they are. Supposedly being threatened in masculinity being therefore a mere trigger that lets them show their true face.

    However due to biological entitlement of being physically stronger gender men on average show readiness to be aggressive and to feel like they have a special privilege, or in other words: to be socially and emotionally underdeveloped human individuals, that resemble animals too much.

    When social and psychological constructs crumble that are believed to be traditionally established, their animalistic nature and mind shows up.

    This by no means being a plaidoyer to justify their behaviour "because it seems to be rooted in nature", but a mere contribution of possibly relevant ideas about the topic and an accusation of to-some-part-animals who yet have to learn to be human and weren't yet able to even get the idea that they have to learn it.

    Being man - in this aspect of necessary self-restraint and self-control - comes with more responsibility than being woman , that's not a secret, and to have this responsibility and act accordingly is just an intrinsic obligation of each of the men, who otherwise - because of being weaklings in mind and spirit - do not deserve to be called men however masculine they are deemed or deem themselves.

    Men are strong not because and not when they can exert this strength to control, dominate, overpower others, but because and when they can do it primarily WITH THEMSELVES to be help, protection and light for others.
    • AmandaYVR

      Beautifully said.

      Rigid Masculine Gender Role Adherence & The Connection to Violence and Hostility Against Women

      Wish I could give another MHO here.

    • Regmorus

      Thank you.

    • Regmorus

      I appreciate it. By the way if it be meant as allusion to those times and that attitude of mine, I didn't know myself often what I was talking back then.

      I do respect you and do feel respect.

      Otherwise please kindly regard my conjecture that it could be an allusion as a fruit of overthinking.

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  • JDavid25
    You see what I don't appreciate about stuff like this is that it's implied that only women go through harrassment and violence and whatnot and us men just flow through life with nobody botherin us.. It also vilifies masculinity in a way and makes it seem like hostility is a male trait, toxic masculinity and whatnot.. The truth is that that guy was a troll.. A jerk.. Aside from sexual harrassment more men get harrassed on the internet than women.. Violence against males is much higher, males are 53% of the domestic violence recipients, and much of the suicide rate.. When are we gon stop playin these gender war games as if women are the only ones sufferin. In Boko Haram there was a school that got raided, they set the boys dorms on fire and burned most of them to death, and slit the throats of the remaining escapers.. They just told the girls to go and get married and scadaddle basically.. Males prisoners of war are gang raped a lot of times, and shunned by their villages when they find out, and there are no rape crisis centers to help those gentlemen.. People generally care more for women than they do for men..
    • Good points

    • JDavid25

      @AlwaysBelieving Of course.. Thanks man.. 😊..

    • AmandaYVR

      "it's implied that only women go through harrassment and violence and whatnot and us men just flow through life with nobody botherin us.. "
      That's completely untrue. I implied no such thing. A redirection of violence against men does not address violence against women by men.
      Just because an article is about something (such as a very specific thing of rigid masculine gender role adherence), doesn't mean a negation of the other things - it means that this article is about one aspect.
      And if you'll notice I wrote, "3. Men who espouse a “tough” persona endorse hostile attitudes toward women, and hostile attitudes toward other men, for that matter, regardless of their sensitivity to gender-relevant threats."

      "Aside from sexual harrassment more men get harrassed on the internet than women.. Violence against males is much higher"
      Women do not harrass men on the internet MORE than men harrass women. False.
      Violence? Uh, yeah, ON MEN PURPETRATED BY MEN. You saying statements like that makes you lose credibility.

      You're comparing prisoners of war to innocent civilian women in their home country, not in wartime.
      It's ridiculous. They are not related.

      "males are 53% of the domestic violence recipients"
      That's also not true.

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  • Kaazsz
    I agree with this post. But I have a single problem with it.


    I feel that the source of this toxic masculinity comes from female sexuality.


    Women are attracted to a certain kind of man. If you aren’t that man, everyone in your life will ridicule you.


    I used to play magic the gathering growing up. Guess what? Being a nerd is not cool. Why? Because men have an inherent disdain for other non masculine males? Not really.


    People look down on nerds for one reason. Being a nerd does not get you pussy (well these days that may have changed since girls are in the nerd world too nowadays yay for that.)


    Everything we judge men for, is based on “do the actions of this man result in pussy?” If no, than it’s time to put that man down into the dumpster.


    So yes, men being forced by society to adhere to some idea of masculinity is bad for us and results in harm to women. But it all started off with the vagina. What does the pussy want? It wants all those traits we try to force men to be. And thus, toxic masculinity is born.


    Part of the solution is society waking up. Part of the solution is women waking up. But I don’t know if women can change their sexuality. They will forever be attracted to a certain masculine ideal that came from our evolution.


    In the same way women are hurt by men’s sexualitzation of them in the media, men’s masculinity is sexualized in the media. And a man who does not meet woman’s sexual ideal is hurt by not meeting that ideal. Just as a woman who is not “slim thick” also hurts her because she cannot live up to the sexual feminine ideal that men desire.


    So we can finally see that both sexes have a sexual ideal, and attempting to force the entire population to meet that ideal is very damaging.
    • Kaazsz

      A big difference I have to point out, between the sexual ideal of what men want in women, and what women want in men.

      Men’s sexual ideal is one of beauty. If a woman is not beautiful we do not remove her woman card. She is always and forever a woman.

      However a man can lose his man card. When a man is not sexually attractive to women, he loses his man card. Because being a man in this society is not about his looks. Being a man is about his confidence and what he sows into the earth and reaps what he has sown.

      A “real man” sows a lot of seeds and reaps a lot of good stuff from them. This is what turns women on. A man with confidence and power and social skills and money and mental strength and so on and so on and so on. What it takes to be a man is ASTRONOMICAL, compared to what it takes to be a woman. Which is just be born with a vagina.

    • Kaazsz

      So you can imagine why men end up being violent and angry. We are held to this standard that is impossible to achieve. We must be big strong men who get a lot of pussy, otherwise you’re a worthless sack of human trash.

    • ecfresh

      No, it’s up to you. If you think you are a “worthless sack of human trash” then you will act like it. Just like she said, men who feel weak and insecure lash out just like the asshole did to her.

      Have real confidence. Don’t base your self esteem on how anyone reacts to you. Love yourself first.

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  • Dansnlawlipop
    I feel bad for people like that guy. I really do.
    Can you imagine the miserable, depraved life he must "live" to want others to be violently abused for any reason?

    But more importantly, I hope you are safe and well. Your power and sophistication may be a curse as it relates to situations like this, but it is a blessing to me to see how wonderfully you sidestepped the bastard. Inspiring and powerful.
    • I don't feel bad about people like this at all. They have no right for their behaviour nor do they offer any real constructive behaviour in society.

    • @Dansnlawlipop i'm glad they're people like you realize that. No i am not justifying their actions also because it is affecting anyone. They just feel like they're just going to be punished anyway so there's no point being a good guy anymore until they start committing suicide because that is how society often treat masculinity.

    • AmandaYVR

      Thank you, Dansnlawlipop. I really appreciate that. 💛

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  • Anpu23
    Interesting. I only have one point. You used a lot of orphaned statistics (1 in 4 women... as an example) these figures are propagandistic in nature as opposed to something like 1 in 4 women experience while only 1 in 10 men... Without the other side of the argument it can be assumed that the other half of the ratio can be anything. I understand that your rightfully upset. But I felt that you'd appreciate the feedback. Peace.
    • AmandaYVR

      Fair enough, point taken.
      This is not an article about rape in general. It is an article about the root of some/one aspect of male hostility. I will leave it to others to discuss violence from other angles.

    • Anpu23

      I get it. People suck

  • BeenThereLovedIt
    I'm all about empowered women, and I like to think that most men would step in to "resolve" the types of abuse you mention.

    Yet I feel you've lumped me in with those types of men.
    • AmandaYVR

      "Yet I feel you've lumped me in with those types of men."
      Why do you feel that way?

    • The 'tone' of the question as a whole seems like a blanket accusation towards men in general, that's all.

    • AmandaYVR

      It is not.

      As I said, "Other Men, Take Note: This is not directed towards you, the vast majority of good, decent, sane, level-headed, reasonable, and sometimes great men of the world, and of G@G. Nowhere in this will you see "all men..." or make any such broad-based generalizations or dismissive caricatures that demean all men. I assure you, I have the ability to distinguish between good and bad, and many people in between. However, there are some men, certain men, who act consistently and unnecessarily hostile, angry, aggressive, antagonistic, and who threaten or wish acts of violence like rape upon us, and it is them that this is about:"

      Most, or many, men do not "step in to "resolve" the types of abuse you mention."
      Those who do attempt, online, are unceremoniously demoralized as "white knights."
      Billy Bush cackled along with Trump when he spoke of his right to "grab pussy."

      There are many examples, but I'll give you another concrete one that hits close to him for me.
      My best girl friend came to visit me. She lives in a neighbouring city to me, and as it is her first property, the most she could afford is essentially in the highest crime rate city. We had a great time together, as usual, and we didn't want it to end, and so it wasn't until just shy of 1am that she left for home. She has to use public transit. Both buses and subways. It's a 1 hr journey home.
      Shortly after sitting down in the train, a man approached her. He was acting erratic, nonsensical, angry at times. Then he brought out a knife. A large 9" "fishing knife" out of his jacket. He unsheathed it. Then began waving it around, while standing close in front of her.

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  • dianagirl
    Have you read Josette Sona's books, too? It sounds like you might have. I loved them (and your MyTake) but I don't think some men will like either.
    Sometimes the truth hurts. But it needs to be said. Well said! Thank you. :)
    • AmandaYVR

      No, never heard of her. You recommend them, eh?
      Thanks for your support 💛

  • thomual
    I'm a little confused. Obviously the person was arguing that Law and Order is supposed to somehow prevent rape. We dont live in the Viking era, so that's something. I think you are seeing a threat where there isn't one. The threat is the evil of a lawless land. This is the point he was making. I'm not sure how you didn't get that message?

    Men are less emotionally sensitive than women, on average, and many use extreme examples like rape to illustrate points, not realizing this emotionally clouds the point. That's the real problem with, "mansplaining". It's not that you are stupid because you are a woman, it's more that he is stupid for invoking emotion rather than just saying what he means. If a man were to say to another man, "yes but rape..." most others would just say back, "yeah but... (some solution to the problem of lawlessness)" they wouldn't even think there was any kind of veiled threat.

    I'm just saying you're taking it way more personally than it was meant, or most men would understand it to be. And that's a natural response, given that you are female. That's just not how men communicate with eachother.
    • AmandaYVR

      No. I know the language males use is harsher and more blunt around other men than with women. There is NO justifiable reason to ever say such a thing to anyone EVER. It is the equivalent of a woman aggressing on a man (even if online) "I'm going to cut off your dick", or "you deserve your dick to be cut off."

      "You, young lady, deserve a thorough raping."
      YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW FUCKING OFFENSIVE THAT IS. IT'S MEANT TO BE CONDESCENDING. If he said something similar to a man irl, he would be in a lot of trouble. Just because we are female and distanced, online, in no way excuses this behaviour.

      This is not about respecting "law and order."

    • thomual

      Hmm.. point taken. It is like saying "i wish someone would cut your dick off, then you'd understand." When you put it that way it sounds pretty ignorant. And personal.

    • chubbette

      I wish I was a man.

    • Show All
  • yamajazaki
    I saw a tweet with ss from tiktok where a girl joked that women should stop giving birth and end mankind... The replies on dat tiktok scared the fuck out of me, stuff like:
    ' you dont have a choice'
    'we can make you'
    'we can just rape you'
    'rape is an option' etc
    • AmandaYVR

      Wow. That is really, really disturbing.

      The girl was obvious that it was a joke, right? Not hostile?

    • yamajazaki

      As far as I could tell from the pics she wasn't serious ( I removed tiktok so didn't see the video)

  • hellionthesagereborn
    Nope. Men are harassed more often then women online, are more sexually harassed in the military, women are more likely to be physically violent in relationships compared to men etc. etc. etc. Also you will note that most serial killers were abused by their mothers, most violent criminals come from single mother homes in both cases they do not get any kind of real male role model. So how does one try to suggest that rigid masculine gender roles (which you have no idea what they even are) are to blame for men being evil pieces of shit (lets ignore all the women who are, I mean you and society and the law do, and just focus on how evil men are because one guy was an asshole. Seems reasonable) YET the worse men in the world are men who were raised WITHOUT rigid masculine gender roles and were raised by women that for the most part were feminizing the men?

    When are we going to talk about the connection of rigid feminine gender roles and its connection to domestic violence (which women perpetrate 70% of the time (verified by the CDC/NCVS, harvard and multiple studies that have found lesbian couples have the most violence and sexual assault and homosexual couples have the least), emotional abuse (which women are more likely to use along with manipulation within relationships), and the twisting of boys into criminals (as 80% of all inmates come from single mother homes)?

    Oh wait, we can't do that because that would require women to get their heads out of their asses, see men as human beings, acknowledge reality (like how men are keeping you alive every moment of your life (producing the food, houses, electricity, your clothing, jewelry, all technological developments, policing the steets, protecting you with military etc. etc. etc.), and actually be held accountable for once their lives.

    So we got a long fucking time before we start calling this shit out because if their are two things women utterly despise its personal accountability and seeing men as something other then an object to be used and discarded.
    • Guys are insulted online more often because there are more guys online, they get insulted by other guys and those insults are like noob. Girls get sexual invitations. Very different.
      Guy get more sexually harassed in the army again more guys in the military and guys do all the harassing.
      Women are not more likely to be violent in relationships compared to men that part is a lie. Go check your facts.

      Most serial killers had single mothers, yes. Most children raised by single mothers are not serial killers.

      You talk like no women was ever arrested for raping a man or like every men that gets accused is put in jail or has his life ruined. Injustices do happen but they are not just for one side.

      Women don't see men like that. You know how angry you sound? Do you had a good mother? Any good women in your life?

    • Where's your evidence? Yes, harassment against males does happen sometimes, but not as common as you think.

    • @ThisIsMyOpinion Nope. They are more likely to get death threats and women insult and belittle men on line all the time (what world are you living in? They literally say that masculinity is inherently toxic and wrong on the god damn news, online etc. So to act as if women don't insult men is just, well, white knighting or your just completely oblivious to reality. I mean honestly, do you even believe in equality, because right now your trying to suggest that women are innocent victims and men are always the ones in the wrong when in reality that couldn't be further from the truth.).

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  • chris0977
    This sounds like AOC's (paraphrased) narcissism:

    "I memorized a bunch of information, which I am too incompetent to understand doesn't translate directly into experience & will now go out, young, inexperienced & preach as if everything I've memorized automatically translates to real-world fact, even though I have little to no experience in real-world economics at all"
    • AmandaYVR

      Oh, is that so, Chris?
      Everything you said in that is false and does not apply.
      Memorized
      Doesn't understand
      Incompetent
      Inexperienced
      Young
      You've got some nerve, don't you.
      You don't attack the concepts, because there is 30 years of research behind them, and so instead attack the person. I just love it when men who are complete strangers tell me who I am, what I know, and what I am capable of.
      Fuck off. Your comment has no validity.

  • jshm2
    Nope. While there are plenty of neckbeards, incels and r/niceguys out there. I highly doubt someone sane would be as overt and stupid as write what you're claiming.

    If they were, then you should be heading over to the cops, and pressing charges.

    That fact alone should tell you it's not any sort of "man's world", out to subjugate women. It's more a case of you have to gather enough evidence to present in court to make a case.
    • AmandaYVR

      "Nope"? Are you fucking kidding me?
      I said, "A message I received today..." It came online, here on GAG. You think I purposely faked all those typos and poor grammar? The internet is the Wild West. Governments and corporations are, as we speak, trying to figure out if and how it should be regulated. Shit like this happens constantly. BY/FROM MEN.
      As @G3tAClue also commented, " I’ve received multiple “get raped” messages on here as well by trolling angry men who have nothing better to do."

      "You highly doubt"?
      People don't get lawsuits filed against them for threats on the internet. Get real. And I wouldn't do that anyway. It's idle, it's a wish, and I know that.
      You've got hundreds of thousands of guys online constantly bitching about these theoretical I-heard-about-some-incident falsified claims by women. Some of that is true. And some of this is true. Women are antagonized, accosted, and threatened on a regular basis. Your denial of that fact, of this, is worth nothing.

      THERE IS NO FUCKING JUSTIFICATION TO THREATEN OR WISH RAPE ON SOMEONE. And the fact that men like you won't acknowledge that, and claim it's a lie, just deepens the crevasse between the sexes.
      As a matter of fact, now I'm glad you wrote this. It's proof of how nasty some men are.

    • G3tAClue

      See this is the problem. These threats and horrible interacts happen very regularly on the internet but many guys don’t take what me and @AmandaYVR seriously. Look it up dude, it’s a real problem and is only becoming bigger and more serious. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean anything.

      I did an experiment and made a blue account on here to see just how differently guys talk to me, and the difference is ASTOUNDING. Coming from the blue accounts that regularly threaten women, instead, I got instant respect and was taken seriously for everything I said even though it was the same shit I was saying as a pink account.

    • * jackass alert *

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  • backdoorman
    "Men who espouse a “tough” persona endorse hostile attitudes toward women"? Really? Because I know a lot of touch guys and the vast majority of them treat women like gold, and they would beat the shit out of a guy who mistreated a woman.

    Look, it sucks that some asshole on the internet wrote you a shitty message, but that's not a good reason to take your anger out on all masculine guys. These generalizations about masculinity are getting really old.

    .
  • xJeremyx
    I wouldn't completely attribute the prevalence of violence against women to men not having avenues to vent stress of masculinity or bottled up emotions. Because any good man will know, being a man isn't about being strong and unbreakable or the best at everything (what masculinity sometimes entails), but its about being human, accepting thatyou aren't the only person in the world with an opinion, nor is your opinion always the best. Its okay to be outperformed or outreasoned by a woman. We need to give credit where credit is due.

    Unfortunately masculinity is something that is engrained in men since young. Personally i am also a victim of this. We are taught that we should always outperform women. But extreme misinterpretations of this already flawed idea of what it means to be a man results in a few black sheep thinking its ok to do anything you want to a woman, because she is supposed to be 'inferior' to you, and if she outdoes you, you have no right to have a set of balls.

    It boils down to essentially how men are brought up from young. Im sure that any boy who is taught the importance of being open minded, that everyone regardless of gender, is human and should be treated the same as you would want yourself to be treated, wouldn't be the ones perpetrating sexual violence based of difference in ideology or opinion. Even more so, they would know the importance of keeping an open mind which would make them much less prone to violence when someone contradicts their ideas or beliefs.

    So in all being a man is to be human. Same as what being a woman would mean. Always respect others. Nobody is superior to anyone else. You have no right to hate someone for their opinion unless its downright morally wrong. You have no right, as a man, to threaten others because you think you are superior. On the flip side, being a man doesn't mean not showing emotion or weakness. It is to make sure you know that you need help, and to ask for it whenever you need it. Being a man who knows his limits is much more attractive than someone who tries to be invincible. Being a man isn't about venting your anger on women. It is about knowing how to properly release it. To all the black sheep out there who are guilty of this, shame on you.

    @writer I am sorry some stupid dude had to ruin your day for you.
    • AmandaYVR

      This is wonderful, Jeremy.
      I'm so happy that young men like you exist in the world. You have a beautiful voice. Please do what you can to help shape the future. You are the future. If everyone thought like you, we would have a pleasant, harmonious society.

    • xJeremyx

      Thank you.

  • Freddy78361
    I wonder what point he was trying to communicate when he wrote/said those things because it certainly didn't elicit the response he expected or wanted.


    I'm not going to argue against your positions: they are well thought out, cogent, and researched.

    I am concerned that you are painting with a broad brush. However, saying "But not all of us do that!!!" sounds whiny, weak, and sycophantic.
    • AmandaYVR

      I promise you, I am not.

      As I said, "Other Men, Take Note: This is not directed towards you, the vast majority of good, decent, sane, level-headed, reasonable, and sometimes great men of the world, and of G@G. Nowhere in this will you see "all men..." or make any such broad-based generalizations or dismissive caricatures that demean all men. I assure you, I have the ability to distinguish between good and bad, and many people in between. However, there are some men, certain men, who act consistently and unnecessarily hostile, angry, aggressive, antagonistic, and who threaten or wish acts of violence like rape upon us, and it is them that this is about:"

  • And, this is why I encourage my female friends to enroll martial arts classes. I'm very lucky to be experienced with street fights and have achieved 1st dan black belt in Taekwondo, as my dad always told me when I was a kid that I should be careful of rapists.
  • SomeGuyCalledTom
    “rape is the logical and psychological extension of a dominant-submissive, competitive, sex role stereotyped culture.”

    I'm not sure about this claim (although I haven't dug into the primary literature on which it's predicated, so call it "conjecture" on my part if you will.)

    There's really nothing "logical" about rape, even if the culture it emerges from is fundamentally a consequence of competition and emergent hierarchies.

    Competition is not a "male trait" strictly speaking, it's a HUMAN trait, and men just happen to compete in more explicit avenues. For instance, the tendency of men to prefer hard contact sports, and women to prefer soft contact or no contact sports.

    Nothing about that is indicative of a logical explanation for rapists to excuse their behavior. "but society made me this competitive dominance-seeking male", like, no motherfucker, YOU chose this. Even serial killers are well documented in blaming "society" for "making them what they are". But society never put a gun to Ted Bundy's head telling him to rape and murder a load of innocent women. Society never told the Unabomber to go on a killing spree, although reading his memoirs would suggest society is to blame and that he's a people's hero. Elliot Rodgers was convinced society was to blame for him not being able to get a girlfriend (while overlooking his creepy, "future school shooter" -like personality as the true cause of rejection).

    I'm weary of researchers in modern social sciences, because many of them are following a deconstructionist victim narrative that blames "society" and so-called "patriarchy" for everything bad under the sun. In reality, rapists are among the first in line to get shanked up in the general prison populace. The only "prison class" more reviled is pedophiles. Imagine that: the most criminal segment of the population who arguably have the MOST "toxic masculinity" STILL draw the line at sexual violence, to the point they would risk more prison time just to put a rapist in his place. The general law-abiding male population is even LESS tolerant of rapists. The real problem is that our legal system no longer acts as an effective detterant. If more rapists were punished more often, and more SEVERELY, then rapes would go way down. Rape used to get the death penalty I believe. Nowadays a rape victim would be lucky of their rapist got even a 4 year sentence, and possibly less what with "good behavior" and court appeals etc. Society's failure in the face of sexual violence lies at the feet of a de-fanged legal system that harms victims more than perpetrators.
  • devilman666
    I agree with you, but can we stop the needless shaming of people who play video games and/or live with their parents? Neither video games nor living with your parents make you a sexist piece of shit/rape apologist.
    • AmandaYVR

      I used that phrase because it is well known and often used to succinctly describe a person who has low drive, few life skills, and internet addiction. But you are right that not all people who live in a basement, nor all people who play video games, are losers or that guy. So I removed it from the mytake.

    • Thanks, I just don't think that is a good stereotype to continue, some people like that do exist but the majority of gamers and people who live with parents are pretty average people. The stereotype has some truth, I just think it can be used to generalize people in a very negative way.

  • Bringsplenty
    WOW, i know im stepping into a hornets nest but here goes. Hate is hate, weather its race based hate or sex based hate or what ever. Im male born and bonnified. I undestand statistics which are a great tool. The problem with statistics is that only reported things are recorded re domestic violence and assault. Many men do not report such things. Im 45 years old , have been married twice and would not trade my wife for any amount of wealth or barter. Yet in my life I have seriously dated long term 4 women including my wife and ex wife. In all but 1 of those relationships at least once domestic violence took place. Domestic violence whee i was attacked punched, kicked hit, attempted to cut me. All diffrent times. Never did I report it nor did I assault then in return with one exception. That exception was a ex girlfriend that punched, kicked and even threatened to shoot me over disagreements. In her mind it was ok to hit me because I was a man and she is a woman. I warned her several times would not tolerate such abuse and that if she acted like a child I would treat her as such by putting he over my knee and spank her the next time she put her hands on me. She lasted 3 months before attacking me because in her narcissist mind I took too long after work with coming home with the shopping list of food she had texted me. I called ahead at the store and actually got home 5 minutes earlier then normal. She attacked me as soon as i finished putting the items away. Once she was finished punching, kicking and trying to choke me I sat down on a chair and motioned for her to come sit on my lap. It took her a second to realize she was being guided across my knee instead. Instead of getting a hug and apology as she thought she got a spanking her daddy should have given her to teach her how to have decency in a relationship of how to treat others. I broke up with her shortly after that and never looked back. Yes women have been abused in many ways through the years. This still happens and is unacceptable. But one must realize how many times I've had a woman attack me even saying what are you going to do? If you hit me back you'll go to jail and if I call 911 you go to jail even if you don't. I think many women assault men, it just goes unreported.
    I know a man that was raped by two women at gun point. When he reported it his friends laughed at him, the police laughed at him and when he went to court to put the women in prison he hears even the judge say to the bailiff "if i could be so lucky" did the women get found guilty of rape, you bet they did. How many years did they get in prison? Not a single day. They got probation and home arrest.
    There are two sides to every story. YES HORRIBLE things do happen in life to make us feel many emotions, hate being one of them or fear. What we do with them is up to each of us. Dont let it cause you to feel all men are this way or all women are that way. Last I checked its about equality not superiority that goes for sex as well as race and everything else you can lump into this. Live well, treat people that are deserving with respect and if your not uplifting your partner and they are not uplifting you then your with the wrong partner. You owe yourself peace. Don't settle for less in this life
    • AmandaYVR

      Aw, that would have been so good were it not for the spanking your girlfriend part. That was condescending and disgusting.
      Otherwise, I agree with all.

  • VanillaSalt
    I understand perfectly where he’s coming from with his comment. Look people don’t know their Privilege without suffering oppression. They don’t know happiness without being sad at some point. People value life because it ends. It’s bittersweet that the things we love are taught to use by their horrible opposites.


    We wouldn’t need police if there was no murder or rape... and sometimes people have to see or experience the murder or rape to understand what it means. I bet even women can’t understand rape unless they have been raped.


    Still you shouldn’t hope bad things on people just so they can learn... I say this but I honestly hope these democrat cities burn around them. As horrible as it is these people don’t care about me and these protestors would just as soon kill me and burn my property so as far as I’m considered you get what you give. Karmas a bitch. And while I would never burn their homes to the ground I’m not obliged to save them from the fire they started either.


    I hope the new man hating feminists live and die alone because of the hate they spew out towards all men for the actions of a few.


    I hope that all people that make others suffer suffer to an equal degree.


    The only real god is Karma. And damn is she a bitch.
  • raven6933
    No woman ever deserves to be degraded in any fashion. Any man who does that is not a man at all. This would only be a demon trying to gain favorance of his master and should be returned to such. Not sure why any thing would feel this is okay, ever! Wonder how would it feel if it was done to them or their family? The only exceptance would be into hell, garrenteed!
  • bluetoblack99
    I’m sorry but many of these aggressive “masculine” behaviors is what many women secretly find attractive. There are early signs these guys are dangerous but many women want to jump head first into the dark pit thinking they “will change them”’.

    That’s not my problem if you make such asinine decisions.
    • AmandaYVR

      I agree with that.
      I don't take responsibility for those women either.
      There are many things I read on GAG that make me shake my head and are very disappointing.
      If only these types of people would efficiently find each other, and leave the rest of us out of it.

    • The problem is many of these women get this bitter attitude towards all men afterwards. Then they will screw over an innocent guy as a way of “scoring a point for their team”. Its fucked up. Just because someone screwed you over in the past doesn’t mean you get to screw someone else over to “even it out”

      While most of these women were chasing these violent assholes they were likely passing up or friendzoning “nice guys”. Like it’s better to be abused because it’s “exciting” vs being “bored” with someone who treats you well.

      I realize not all women are that dumb but an unacceptably high percentage of them are. They need to be called out and I have no sympathy for them.

      I will always stand up against REAL violence against women but you better give me the whole picture. I believe at least 50% of these incidents are avoidable if it wasn’t for asinine female dating decisions. Being abusive isn’t a sign of being a real man.

  • 3dbrah
    Unfortunately this thesis cannot be accepted as 100% legitimate. In the traditional society, people avoided chronic stress. Therefore we can reasonably assume that both chronic stress and its negative impact on human behaviour, mental health and general well being is totally a modern creation.

    Furthermore, I would like to put emphasis on the total lack of research that indicates that healthy testosterone levels are derived from healthy masculine behaviour. If a man's testosterone levels decline below normal levels, he is at increased risk for suicidal tendencies, suicide, memory loss, temporary infertility, lack of energy, lack of will to live and lack of sexual function.

    It is exactly chronic stress that that is the foremost cause of testosterone levels below what is reasonably healthy for a man. It is thus no coincidence that men try to defend their masculinity to avoid killing themselves, or otherwise engaging in other self harm behaviour. Not saying that such behaviour is justified, its not.

    More and more men today are on testosterone replacement therapy due to low naturally occurring testosterone levels. This must be done to avoid suicide and crippling depression and ensure normal functioning in society until the man can go back to normal.

    It is shown from this research that masculinity and testosterone are much more complex than previously thought.https://www.youtube.com/embed/yM8iSbNGNpcPlease watch this short video. Anabolic Doc is the first testostronogist who studies testosterone and men's emotional well being.
    • AmandaYVR

      What you said does not invalidate what I said. I am aware of everything you mentioned and I do agree. Those are medical truths. However this runs parallel to the studies I referenced. Of which there have been many over the decades, studying behaviour, mentality, personality.
      Broadening this out to the societal influences makes it a very complex topic, and no one mytake can encompass all that. But medically, I am entirely with you. These are ALSO issues that need to be recognized and addressed.

    • 3dbrah

      Men are the primary victim of male violence and primary murder victim of male murderers. Men represent the overwhelming majority of male victims. Not to mention women committing violence against men and the culture shipping it off as male weakness.

    • AmandaYVR

      True. So address men for that. It's not the women who are perpetrating most of the violence.
      Well I never think of violence against men as male weakness. Can't speak for everyone else though.

  • BlueEyedBirdWatcher
    That was a very interesting read, I am shocked by those statistics and would like to look into the expansion of them at some point.

    I think that the toxic masculinity is in part due to a broad stroke anti masculine movement. Which mostly took away good role models in media and left masculinity solely as a negative trait of villains,
    It was a social surgery performed with a jack hammer.
    Dominant men should fight adversities and push their allies.

    I have seen a lot of examples of positive masculinity in my personal life, but that was entirely in the army. If I hadn't joined I would have nothing to aim towards.

    So, while this is just another guy writing a post complaining about feminism, feminists made the mistake of tearing down masculinity, and letting outsiders write the rules on what it should be.
    • AmandaYVR

      To your point of masculine role models - that's a good one. But don't you think we see a broad range of males, both tough/dogged and more evolved/sensitive/cerebral/educated/egalitarian types? This variety and blurring, I sometimes wonder, could be one reason for some men's anxiety. They don't know who they should be. But it can also be seen as advantageous - because there are more choices/flexibility for what could be acceptable now - based on their inherent genetic makeup and personality, and of the female partners they may choose (or male partners, for that matter.)

      I honestly don't know anything about feminists making "the mistake of tearing down masculinity" - not because I am challenging that, just that I am not a believer in that type of thinking so their opinions are irrelevant to me. But it seems that many men are angry by what they hear, and that stokes the fire of the divide (which is an equal stand-off, not one-sided.) But I leave those two extremist groups to deck it out with each other. I prefer following and talking with more evolved types that are true egalitarians. So masculinity in and of itself is not bad to me (and I never use the phrase 'toxic masculinity' because I don't believe that masculinity is inherently toxic), but I do care very much about violence and hostility, and I take it as no small thing when I see it, even as some dismiss it as being "no big deal when it's online."

    • AmandaYVR

      My best girl friend irl had a horrible incident, potentially almost attacked with a knife (certainly was threatened) on the subway home from my place on night just recently. (See my description of it here, to BeenThereLovedIt.) I feel awful for her, as she is prone to anxiety and did worry about her safety travelling by herself on public transit at 1am. And it happened. That is so, so bad for her sense of security and safety. Then she was planning to come over again, but this time stay the night to avoid all that risk, and she got very ill right before. So ill she even went to the hospital to get herself checked out. She at first wondered if it was food poisoning. Then, she recently had a panic attack, her first ever; doesn't know what caused it, and now I'm wondering/thinking it could be related in part to that violent incident (as well as covid stress.)

      I've been observing this male hostility for a long time, and thinking about why exactly men are so hostile towards women online (besides the opportunity of anonymity, of course. That is merely a tool, not a cause.) Trying to unpack it all takes a doctorate in sociology which I don't have, but I am highly interested in what has happened to society.

    • Im very sorry about your friend, that is awful. You are a good friend for trying to help her.

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  • TyCobb1919
    "Gender role adherence"? If you think that only females are raped you have no clue that rape and gender roles are two separate things.

    I am a male who was raped. I believe rapists (including female rapists) should be shot on sight.

    As to that perso who said that to you, it sounds to me that the guy was using a sick, extreme form of hyperbole to make his point. It doesn't invalidate his point.
    • AmandaYVR

      Did I say only females are raped? No.
      Everyone who has been raped, or attempted rape, or any violence perpetrated upon them has my sympathies. No one should ever have to live through that.
      But a defence against males raping is not "well, females rape too."

      "As to that perso who said that to you, it sounds to me that the guy was using a sick, extreme form of hyperbole to make his point. It doesn't invalidate his point."
      Invalidate? That's not the word. Does it justify or make acceptable such language? No, it does not.

      You want to talk about rape? Fine.
      90% OF ADULT RAPE VICTIMS ARE FEMALE.
      Did you get that? 90%.

      1 in every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).
      As of 1998, an estimated 17.7 million American women had been victims of attempted or completed rape.
      Young women are especially at risk.
      82% of all juvenile victims are female.
      Females ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.3
      Women ages 18-24 who are college students are 3 times more likely than women in general to experience sexual violence. Females of the same age who are not enrolled in college are 4 times more likely.

      1 out of every 10 rape victims are male.
      But who is committing the rapes? NOT ALL WOMEN. MEN COMMIT RAPES ON MEN TOO.
      Men and Boys Are Also Affected by Sexual Violence
      Male college students are at a higher risk than non-students of the same age to experience sexual assault or rape. Male students ages 18-24 are five times more likely than non-students of the same age to experience sexual violence.
      Millions of men in the United States have been victims of rape.
      As of 1998, 2.78 million men in the U. S. had been victims of attempted or completed rape.5
      About 3% of American men—or 1 in 33—have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.5

    • TyCobb1919

      Why so angry? I hope you are not a victim.

      I stand by what I posted.

    • AmandaYVR

      Raped by a female or male?

      I stand by what I said as well.

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  • Torari
    "blah blah blah testosterone is evil men are the devil blah blah blah"

    Imagine if I made similar observations of how women have a tendency to treat men as disposable tools, i'd probably be called every name available to human kind and 3 new ones would be invented for me specifically.
    • She did not said all men are bad calmed down.
      Also make good points about how women treat us as disposable and you will be listen to. I doubt that you can but go ahead and try.

    • AmandaYVR

      I never used the word testosterone, not once.

      What you are doing is deflecting, and not acknowledging that some men do shit things.
      Which would be the same as me not acknowledging that some women do shit things. Which I never have. I have also written criticizing certain aspects of females. Because no one is perfect. Are they? But your, and some men's denial, is the real problem.

  • ret04
    One common misconception is this notion that most men are universally taught something regarding masculinity. That isn't true. Most men infer things, and because of this, men have all manner of different beliefs regarding "masculine" behavior. But make no mistake, there are a lot of dumb men in the world. Statistically speaking, there's more idiot level men. It's just kind of biological. Questioning their psyche is like trying to figure out why a bit-bull is violent. It's operating on base instinct and it's all muscle. The dumber the guy, the more things he tries to solve with violence.

    That's got nothing to do with lots and lots of men, who aren't stupid, and yet they are the ones to facing most feminist backlash for women who feel like this is an orchestrated plot of the male gender.

    On a side note - As much as I'm in favor of whatever dynamic of power people want to attempt in their relationships, you will find that even men with brain are going to meet notions of "egalitarianism" with a healthy skepticism. A lot of men take issue with notion of gender equality on an "a la carte" basis.
    • AmandaYVR

      I like your first paragraph. Surprised I haven't heard someone else write that one before. So true, what you said.

      I am also tired of the feminist topic. I really don't have anything to say on that.
      I just want fairness, equal pay (we're still at -20%) and otherwise, we don't have to be the same, just valued the same.

      What's wrong with egalitarianism (she dares ask)?
      How would you define or describe it better, what would be ideal... or realistic?

  • AlwaysBelieving
    First off, what a cruel thing to say to a woman.

    You bring up some interesting thoughts so thank you for the MyTake.

    While I don't agree with all of it, I'll just leave you with this; "May you be so strong that you never have to use it.
  • KingdomForAKiss
    Sick and pathetic excuse for a human. Scum of the earth. I'm so repulsed right now by that peice of filth.

    Great mytake. Thank you for sharing your research and your well spoken opinion thoughts.
  • ILoveAnime
    Exactly and people say we don't need femenism these days. Honestly.
    • Oram52

      We don't!!

    • It's because we actually don't. People are supporting equality that's why they are not feminist. Also you don't realize is that it is also basically the same thing that women whines about men's privilege that it ok for them to do double standards.

    • ILoveAnime

      Well, I don't even know what to say to you. Thanks for making me lose faith in humanity once again I guess lol

    • Show All
  • Rocco7070
    Sometimes life shows any of us just how sick some people are, there are. Men and women whos lives are so filled with feeling like trash, they have to use that kind of flag to get anyones attention, dont buy into that. Your opinion is mine also, vut if it wasn't the same Id sure look like a. Man with a pencil dick, or a feeling 9f no worth telling you something oike that. what y9u did by posting that freaks answer is right to do, he can't be shammed because that class has no shame but he can be seen as a g ood example of whats wrong around us. When any man talks to a woman or girl that way all it shows is that rape is on his mind cause he wants to be raped or s omeother freaky trip. Move on girl, everyone here backs you up, pass that bitch up.
    • AmandaYVR

      Thank you! I really appreciate that.
      And I will. I hate repeating stuff or looking back. Onwards...

    • Rocco7070

      Your welcome.. no problem, just be well

  • kemo56
    What the hell is wrong with people anymore

    That is sick and disgusting and could only have been written or sent by someone that was sick

    I might not agree with your politics but I think you have the right to voice them and I think the difference we have if we can find a middle ground makes us stronger

    I'm glad you are taking a stand on not leaving me personally if you look at what I've said I'm a conservative but I tried to look at both sides kind of like empathizing trying to understand the other person's point of view and then if I take that in my point of view can I find a common ground to possibly suggest it and if you agree then all of a sudden we just moved closer to the middle and I think we're stronger for it

    It's hard for me to wrap my mind around aborting a child though at the same time I can understand the concept. Of a woman's choice but I think you're they made that choice earlier then there wouldn't be an infant remove from the world

    And I think that's an issue where I try to see both sides though I don't really see much of a middle ground on that one

    Demonstrating expressing a problem is great

    rioting and destroying stuff is not right and everyone knows that

    I hated what that cop did and I think you should be punished for it I can see the police department's concentrating more on training there is way too many people of any color better shot and they don't have a gun and it is my understanding and belief that special forces don't like near that many mistakes but they train constantly

    I think a choke-hold can be used to keep from hurting someone actually if it is used properly to knock someone out an Alaska state trooper training they choke each other out and they learn the proper technique to render a person helpless without hurting them but once a person is secured there is no need to harm them we are all humans we're all capable of losing our tempers I think one of the big things the police need to look at if having their brothers back it is my opinion did for them to have their brothers back means when their fellow police officer loses their temper AR is doing something wrong they stop it because they care about that police officer and don't want them to do something they would later regret AR that they're doing something that the police officer not committing the infraction AR crime did not fit in to the oath that he swore to

    I am far to body cams on the front and one on the rear of officer and if more than one of the front cameras goes off they're off duty go back to the office and I think body cams are good far the officer and the people he comes into contact with

    I am against no-knock warrants there might be cases situations that they may be necessary but I think it should go through maybe a grand jury
  • LuvMeSomeBoys
    I wouldn’t even waste keystrokes on these trolls. They’re trying to get under your skin. In the future don’t oblige them by responding, ignoring them makes them implode.
    • AmandaYVR

      I don't think complete avoidance is the answer to all this. Sometimes things need to be addressed.
      Other times... yes, not worth it. Depends on the comments, the person, their history, etc.

  • kespethdude
    Just the very message you are responding to pissed me off and if I were a woman, I'd want that fucker dead. Scumbags like that deserve no respect, no credit, no mercy and no forgiveness (all they deserve is some "fun time" in prison with Bubba). You are a strong woman for resisting.
  • Aakash_Hangargi
    I am sorry that someone treated you horribly but l have a few questions only for general understandings like want to understand somethings.

    Questions
    1. for 1 guys missbehaviour and several like these others you had one on one.
    But you chose to battle in terms of whole group of women how does it makes someone strong.

    2. The stats presented in media has always rigged details as per some choose how they represent it.

    3. This is abit misguiding about the masculinity like completely ignoring the positive things they bring in its basically mood based I understand though how it might have felt I do its quite horibble I understand it you should have put cyber investigation on him for cyber bullying.

    4. but taking it in general and speaking like that would make the young generation treat each other badly or fearing each other.

    5. The people who do this won't change only action can be taken on them.

    6. what iam afraid of these posts is that young minds will get influenced you have very powerful writing but if they only get the negative parts they won't see the positive things and start in fear or anger against men.

    7. Women often belittle women, they also use each other play political games they like throw other women to guys like these as you describe and these behaviours are also encouraged by women in power it's not only the men some are used has henchmen to control other women likd in corporate world.

    8. they cheat they lie but no women highlights that it's like there is a belief like men were not there so world will be hostile free women are devious more than men they just work in background while the fake masculine guys take it from front.

    9. Narcisst people are narcisst no matter of what gender.
    10. The stats you mentioned over there how many rape cases do you think are registered fake just bc they have women card always the guy will be blamed even if his innocent apparently all men have raping tendencies even the crippled once people are not trying to understand things but power dynamics.

    P. S. This in no way something to demean or blaming or victimising just my personal inquisitive questions asked in terms to understand things..
  • Unit1
    I wouldn't know about men's gender roles being somehow involved in men's aggression. None of the men i hang out with or made more than an acquaintance ever expressed or thought, that sexually assaulting or demeaning women is ever right nor would it be "manly". We, the adequate men, love women (some of us love women more than the other men).

    with that said i don't follow gender roles (i consider them to be toxic) and "masculinity" as well as "femininity" and "alpha" and "beta" aren't even words to me. I don't understand anybody subscribing to these and that's totally fine by me. I make do with what i have. Society functions and is stable enough. Women work and drive gladly. Men and women go on dates and fancy each other. And if somebody wants to "dominate" these women so much like making them their possession chained to the kitchen like a dog, then these women have the freedom and money (power) to send them back to the wilderness tribes where they came from. I don't see any problems.

    aggression regardless by who is perpetrated is making one self a freak, that i want to distance myself from. I don't hang out with toxic dicks and cunts. Life's too short. There's this sweet block function, that without it's existence the internet forums and Q&A sites shouldn't exist😀
  • OfDeath
    Did you suggest something along the lines of defunding the police or something?
    I can see his point but the way he put it was extreme. Some people don't realise that society needs police until they personally need them. Defunding isn't the answer because the police are usually pretty useless when it comes to actually serving and protecting the community.
    • AmandaYVR

      No, I didn't. Please see my comments below to JackBlue.

  • Jamie05rhs
    1. That was a really disgusting thing to say. I'm sure their intent was to make a rhetorical point regarding public policy, but the way they went about it was WAY outside the bounds of propriety and decency. And to send it as a private message? That is just completely uncalled for. He should be ashamed.

    2. "In a study sample of unmarried heterosexual men, Abbey, Parkhill, BeShears, Clinton-Sherrod, and Zawacki (2006) nearly 25% of participants reportedly perpetrated at least one act of attempted or completed rape.". ? 25%? That is VERY disturbing!!!
    • AmandaYVR

      He wrote it in a public comment here - a reply to a political question I answered.

      Yep, that 25% is very disturbing, you are right.

    • Jamie05rhs

      Okay. Well, public or private, it was still wrong.

  • apollo3000
    Oooh, I didn't read the text (yet) - but the title is SPOT ON

    Male aggression is socially portrayed as the ONLY way to show you are male (as if having the protruding organ between your legs is not proof enough).
    I attribute it to Ottomans and Arabs, they are obsessed by proving they are male, dominant etc.
    Now, the fact that females then go and expect it - makes it 10x worse.
    My proposed solution - tasers allowed for women only, no weapons for me, and it's sorted.
    • apollo3000

      The thing is the it is the WOMEN who should be asking for A LOT MORE protection from violence (in terms of politics). Not for equality, but for protection. That probably gets some men angry (it is usually the muslim women that want equality (to marry 3 or 4 men) - and then the rest suffer because democrats offer it as a blanket solution for all female problems.

  • madgoat
    To understand the legitimacy of your argument i'd have to research your many references and their respective legitimacy. However at least some of it is understood, even to a layman.
    It is warming that you note that there are different kinds of men. It is very common that a writer groups all males as one for their hit piece which makes for an exhausting and pointless read.
    It's likely we can find examples of the males you describe. Famous or not, young or old.
    I find myself speculating if you'd be as willing and able to describe your own sex in similar terms, deconstruct their motivations, find references to legitimise their errant behaviours, statistics that demonstrate how often women are violent and abusive.
    It is not to excuse bad male behaviour of which there are many examples (and many prisons ) , nor to suggest it's balanced. But it is a two way street. And we hear plenty one side but not the other.
    • AmandaYVR

      Thank you for recognizing the distinction of this being about one type of men, not all men.

      I have begun researching domestic violence perpetrated by women on men.

    • FatherJack

      I have been on the receiving end of this in the past , which was instant dismissal for her !! If a man did involve the police... HE will be arrested , assumed to be the aggressor , not her.

  • bailey11
    It's the creeps that make it bad for the rest of the male population.
    • AmandaYVR

      Indeed. You should let them know that.
      Last night I listened to a podcast with a group of self-proclaimed incels and mgtows. God, what a bunch of whiners. Perhaps a mytake on that to follow some day. I'm up about to 'here' [raises hand to middle of head], with the self-pity parties.

  • Hunter7754
    The guys that have 'toxic masculinity' and traits associated with this concept (ie dominance, aggression, stoicism, recklessness, arrogance, emotional unavailability, etc), those are the ones that are seen as more attractive to women.
    Men adhere to their gender roles because that's largely what women want. Men that don't adhere to gender roles will just be seen as weak and inferior by other women and not be seen as attractive as the other men that are fulfilling their gender roles.
    • AmandaYVR

      That is only true of some women, not all women. It's far too much a generalization.

    • Hunter7754

      Well its enough women to make it worth mentioning. A large amount of women want men that fulfill their gender roles and men that have 'toxic masculinity'. So whats the incentive not to have toxic masculinity if it gives men an advantage when dating?

    • AmandaYVR

      Again, smaller percentage. Not the majority.
      That's like if I said that the majority of guys were like the guy who wrote this rape thing to me. This mytake is not about "all guys" but as you phrased, it is "enough to make it worth mentioning." I agree with that. But as far as one behaviour influencing another - yes they are perhaps connected, but we need to recognize both these types as being ONE type and not all. (I wish these types would all just find each other, hook up, and leave the rest of us out of it. But it doesn't work like that, unfortunately.)
      I'm not smashing them all together - generalizing to that degree, despite what some angry men are commenting here. I'm extricating a certain archetype, specifically (because that's what my research uncovered - this "strict adherence to a certain type of masculine gender role' + feelings of insecurity and inferiority. Which is specific, and a subset, of a more generalized 'macho' male.

  • ThisDudeHere
    I'll put it this way - he was an asshole, no doubt, but he does have a point. Police are needed.
    • AmandaYVR

      Unfortunately some of you are zoning in on that part, but I am not against police in general, or defunding, or think all cops are bad so that aspect is all moot. Just because one person says something in an offhand way doesn't mean it is fact or truth or an accurate interpretation.

    • Well yeah but it also could be

  • NerdInDenial
    Evil people will always exist; you have to fight them off everyday. Life is a battlefield. If you want to live, you will, if not, you won't.
  • Nalix
    While some violence and aggression against women certainly can be explained with these motivations, there is apparently a perception that *all* violence against women can or should be explained with these motives. This is one of many motives for violence, but certainly not all.

    The unfortunate trend I am seeing is that this is the go-to explanation for all violence against women, which is absurd. This trend then leads to the reactionary trend where some people assume that violence against women is never for these reasons, which of course is also absurd.
    • AmandaYVR

      Exactly. I agree. It is merely *one* aspect.

  • Snakeyes7

    I’d like to start off saying that this behavior is in no way specific to males, technically speaking.


    Like someone else said I doubt masculinity has anything to do with this anyway because it goes against what it actually is and what it was revered for in the past. I really hate to be that guy but I think the way boys are shown in media and the rise of single motherhood might have a role to play in this.


    With divorce being as easy to achieve as ever, and it is known that women initiate the vast majority of the divorces, a lot of boys have been growing up without fathers in the home or at least not readily available so they have no idea what their role in being men in the world is from a man’s perspective. Not that single mothers can’t raise great children but they aren’t replacements of fathers. It has been proven that boys who grow up without father figures are more likely to have behavioral issues, lower self esteem and confidence especially with women, have mental health problems, drop out of school and resort to crime such as those you talk about and much more. Let’s take mass shooters for example nearly all of them were missing a father.


    Look at the media within the last decade or so. How many men come to mind who if not as dumb as a rock would otherwise be a domestic abuser? The Gillette commercial is a very good example of this. What kind of message do you think this tells boys growing up with this stuff? It seems to me that even the message of “toxic masculinity” sounds like men are biologically programmed to do all this, like we are one misstep away from raping the next girl we see.


    We are also slowly losing male only spaces. Let’s look at Boy Scouts, it existed just to let them learn actual skills and at the same line let them be boys almost like an extension of a father but that’s gone now. Even man caves have a lot of negative feelings towards them and is commonly frowned upon in relationships for men to hang out with only their friends. They have lost a lot of space to hold refuge. Imagine being socially unacceptable to have your girls nights out.


    Not to condone their actions but if women were subjected to this, wouldn’t we be seeing this behavior unfold too? As I explained before, we are seeing something similar today but I believe it is for similar reasons, being told that men are monsters or morons so they look down on them and only fueling the divide.


    Like I said, I don’t condone any of these actions but wouldn’t being told all your life that you are a monster and that you are responsible for the suffering of a certain class of people drive you insane too? Equality isn’t a zero sum game and if men feel that they are accepted in society maybe the prevalence of these behaviors would decrease.
  • Gravit1
    It says you're 47, So the young lady quote that sent you into a tizzy is highly suspect. Even more disturbing is the likelihood you made it up, which is further reinforced by your depraved ramblings that are more consistent with such a sick mind. However, all is well because I know enough women who will gladly cook, clean, mate, raise kids, and work with me. Your time is spent and your rotten attitude spent it for you. Violence has more connected with soy boy incels and other male feminist, then men who actually bring home the bacon. Your delusion about men won't fly here and enough women don't buy your garbage. The violence towards women only erupted with the removal of nuclear families, not the formation. It's quite the sign when an embittered 47 year old girl is the one to tell us how awful men are. You're obviously rotting in your own bitterness.
    • AmandaYVR

      All that "young lady" comment shows is that he was attempting to be condescending, and that he may or may not have noticed my age. You know why he did it. It was like talking to a child who deserves a spanking. If you don't see that, you might be even dumber than him.

      What I wrote was the farthest thing from "depraved ramblings." It is extremely rare that any user writes a mytake here that is so thoroughly referenced/cited. You claiming this is a classic misogynistic cliche to portray women as emotional, out of control, and illogical. And I'm onto you.

      You go ahead and personally attack me for my age. I've already lived two of your lifetimes and I wouldn't give up my knowledge for your ignorance for any prize or amount of money.

      "Violence has more connected with soy boy incels and other male feminist, then men who actually bring home the bacon."
      Prove it. Make a citation.

      "Your delusion about men won't fly here and enough women don't buy your garbage."
      You have 2 followers. I have 5,359, and everyone has free will, so your claim is what is garbage.

      "It's quite the sign when an embittered 47 year old girl is the one to tell us how awful men are. You're obviously rotting in your own bitterness."
      Also an ignorant conclusion.
      I spent 10 years dating, enjoyed meeting many interesting men and having relationships with them, and I am married to one for 20 years still going strong. So you're wrong again.
      Here's What I Like About Men ↗

      Good luck with your life, kid. You're going to need it.

  • Citizenkirk
    There is no universal gender based association with hostility or violence. There are no genetic markers specific too attacking woman, and I have yet too hear of a guy who has been violent or disrespectful towards females who wasn't seriously damaged by criminal child abuse upbringing. Anyone who associates Charles Manson with a normal male should be isolated and heavily sedated for their own safety.
    • AmandaYVR

      "There is no universal gender based association with hostility or violence."

      "There are no genetic markers specific too attacking woman, and I have yet too hear of a guy who has been violent or disrespectful towards females who wasn't seriously damaged by criminal child abuse upbringing."

      Just because you don't know of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
      Sorry, but you're wrong on both counts.

      Nobody thinks Manson is a "normal male."

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