What on earth happened to chivalry?

[Blue_Brady]

Why aren't people well mainly guys as polite as before, no one holds the door open for girls anymore, some guys can't even offer to help a girl with a heavy bag or whatever, the guys in my college are worse they can't even help a girl pick up a stupid pen ugh! I must say though I have encountered a few guys here and there who still do hold the door or offer a girl a seat but just a few.

Updates

+1 y

:''D Woah people are getting really excited here anyway I hope this earns me some points (hhmm I wonder). Well I'd really like to thank everyone who had an opinion you guys rock however some of you were rather prickly lol (chill man). To those who still do these things you guys are awesome!
It was a good debate wasn't it, hope all of you had a great time sharing your opinions :D.

[Anonymous]

Some of those things are just common courtesy (holding doors open for people, offering to help with heavy things). Other things seem like you have a bit too romantic of an idea about the treatment you'd like. If you drop a pen... pick it up. Why do you need help with that?

Chivalry used to be about much more than all this cliche gentlemanly behavior that people associate with it. It also used to imply not so much gentlemanly behavior, but a teamwork type of behavior. If you were married or in a relationship, you both supported each other and tried to make the other happy. That fell away with the push towards less gender roles in the 60's and 70's, but men didn't adapt quick enough (and some still haven't lol). So it became a lopsided arrangement that some women (including yourself, it seems) feel that men are supposed to do this or that, mostly for show.

It's ok to like these things in a partner, but don't go around expecting people to put their coat down in a puddle for you so you don't get your feet wet. I'm not sure what kind of people you're around but I've noticed that young people just don't really have it quite down in regards to proper behavior. They're a bit selfish among other things and don't realize when they're shooting themselves in the foot or burning bridges with people. Look at what roles models (or lack of) they have to follow the footsteps of, and that should show you why younger people leave a lot to be desired.

[Opinion Owner]

And if we're getting REALLY technical, the actual code of chivalry from the Middle Ages hardly even included the treatment of women. It mentions treating the less fortunate (women included) with kindness and respect. The rest of it was concerning personal honor, honor on the battlefield, and unrelenting war against infidels.

Just a little knowledge nugget ;)

[RationalLioness]

Best opinion on here.

[Northeast106]

Most people don't know the history behind it, but good points.

[evenlift]

You should help someone when it's in your self-interest to help. You shouldn't when it isn't.

I am generally willing to help people with small things almost without thinking about it, because good will is a value.

But, the notion of chivalry, the notion that men are there to serve women, is wrong and disgusting. Men shouldn't sacrifice to women, and women shouldn't sacrifice to men. People should co-operate with one another to mutual benefit.

I am glad that chivalry is dead or at least is dying.

[RationalLioness]

"You should help someone when it's in your self-interest to help. You shouldn't when it isn't."

Yeah, I don't agree about being selfish.

[evenlift]

@RationalLioness Why?

[RationalLioness]

I believe everyone is selfish to a degree, but if I can help someone as much as I can, I will. I'm not going to NOT help someone just because I don't really get anything out of it.

Someone else can choose to help someone only when they get something out of it. I'm not going to be.

[evenlift]

@RationalLioness Why, though?

[RationalLioness]

I just explained "why" I don't agree. That's very selfish to me and I don't like being that selfish.

[lolalovesvedette]

This is so annoying!! So many people think like you, so I can't be a decent person and express sincerity/kindness without them thinking I want something from them!
Nooooo. I'm helping/buying you shit cause I think you are a decent person. Not cause I want you to be my boyfriend or whatever..

[evenlift]

@RationalLioness You think selfishness is wrong. I understand that. But, my question is, why is selfishness wrong?

@lolalovesvedette 1. You have misunderstood my meaning. 2. I can assure you that hardly anyone (probably a quarter of one percent) thinks like me.

[RationalLioness]

I NEVER said selfishness is wrong. I said being selfish to THAT degree is wrong to me. in my opinion, it's part of why some things are pretty much fucked up now.

[evenlift]

@RationalLioness Why is too much selfishness wrong?

[RationalLioness]

Because it's repulsive to me. What's hard to comprehend about that?

[evenlift]

@RationalLioness But, why is it repulsive to you?

It sounds as if I were teasing you. But, there's an important point in my continuous questioning.

[DreamsofPegasi]

@RationalLioness and OP,

Interpreted in a specific (less-obvious) way, the first sentence does make sense. If it doesn't have negative consequences for you, helping someone out is in your best interest. Even if it's not directly benefiting you, you can argue that it's selfish to help someone... that it's "in your self-interest"

That is, possibly, what OP is getting at. Just in a silly, less direct and deliberately obtuse way of going about it.

If he's NOT talking about that rationale, then he'd have to say so.

[Ananchor]

Because chivalry is technically a code to follow in war...
But why aren't there many gentleman around these days?
They don't know how to be, no one has taught them to be. Or they think one woman wronged me, all women are terrible, I'm not going to be a gentleman anymore.
If every person on earth treated other people with the same concern, respect and kindness that they themselves what's to revieve the world would be a better place. And it goes for women as well. most women don't act like ladies.
"I met him at a bar, we had sex and he never called... I don't get it"
He's not a gentleman and she is not a lady.
You can't expect to be treated like a prize if you give it away. And men can't expect to be treated with any regard if they don't bother putting a real effort in getting to know a woman without broaching the subject of sex.
Don't get my wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, have sex with who and when you want, but if you have a one night stand you can't be upset when the other person doesn't call. If women want more men in the world they should start acting more like ladies and demand gentleman.

[peachblossomluck]

Everyone should have class but they don't:(

[Monroe4799]

I wouldn't say it doesn't exist.. The times have changed... There are still some gentlemen out there!
It would be nice to see it more often... I also think "sometimes" it depends on how the woman represents herself (I have brothers I've seen them go all out of there way for woman that where classy yet slutty ones didn't even get a hint of that same treatment) it's a cruel world lol...
But also believe what you allow will continue my ex opened doors, payed for meals plus more for me all that! We had that understanding... But I also don't mind holding the door open for people footing the bill whatever... It's mannerism it's not always about gender roles. & if a man is doing those things I feel obligated to meet him half way. (& I do that proudly) Because I understand he doesn't have to do it! But yet he chooses too! it's my way of showing my appreciation for it!
Just my opinion...

[Ozanne]

I'm trying to figure out why men AND women are lost on manners, period. I'm carrying a handful of stuff and someone sees me and walks right through a door and doesn't hold it for me? Then again, not holding the lift for me when I catch up to them? They see me yet still scramble inside and leave me standing there. People are rude today. It's not about men doing chivalrous things that worries more than people being self-entitled twats who just go about their lives with no decency to think of the person next to them that could probably use three seconds of their lives to hold a damn door open. That goes for women too.

[Kshppatel]

I don't do that but I don't open a door for a person just because she is a girl. Because the reality is she would never do the same for me.

[Ozanne]

If I see someone coming even without stuff in their hands and they're behind me, I will hold the door for them. It's called being polite. I don't expect favours for being a woman. I expect politeness for being a human.

[OzFarmer]

Whole heartedly agree with you... I'll go out of my way to help people of any age, but the younger generation seem self obsessed and only the rare few help others, big thumbs up to them

[Ozanne]

I know. It's as if I have to make a point of praising, not just thanking when someone is kind enough to hold a door for me just so they are aware that these are just simple, nice things to do for people. Doesn't take much, holding a door. As for this, "I don't do it because they won't do it for me" it's that exact attitude that I'm hating these days is the assumption that it won't be done for you. You should be doing nice things because that's what you should be doing, not thinking how you were owed a door-opening and never got it at one time, or thinking you won't have the door-opening come back to you later on, so don't even bother. It's just nonsense. We should all be doing little things like this because it's courtesy.

[Mesonfielde]

Because chivalry is just benevolent sexism, and people are growing out of it, of course. It is being overcome by "general courtesy".

You can also pick up your own pen, it's not that hard. Not more difficult than for a male.

[DreamsofPegasi]

I'm really curious as to why only (and quite a few, relatively speaking) females have downvoted this. Definitely agree that Chivalry (as described by this asker) is simply benevolent sexism.

[Mesonfielde]

@DreamsofPegasi most likely entitlement, and feeling offended by me implicitly claiming that it's immature to expect males to be chivalrious for the sake of being chivalrious. :P

Many people want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

[DreamsofPegasi]

Most likely, I figured. But I don't want to just assume and go off on that assumption, heh.

[lumos]

"It is being overcome by "general courtesy"."
Thankfully. It's much better when people are nice to each other because it's the good thing to do. Not because the one you're helping is seen as some weak and helpless damsel in distress who can't even pick up her own pen without falling apart.

[Mesonfielde]

@lumos yeah, for example if someone is close by behind me I don't just close the door on them or something, that'd just be silly, and I don't see how anyone's sex has anything to do with that :p

[kheserthorpe]

I still tend to do those things, probably more now then when i was younger.

There are actually women who actively dislike it.

When you're young, it's not normal now, so if a guy did it, the girl would assume he was hitting on her , not being polite.

[Blue_Brady]

The only thing that matters is that you still do it and that's nice

[Phoenix98]

The main problem is people themselves the second problem is most people don't know what chivalry actually is or what is in it.

It's a code and respecting women is part of it, but only a small part, most of the code deals with honor and etiquette on and off the battlefield. And how you should act while in the presence of some people and in certain situations it is a code of honor, respect, etiquette and life.

And very few people follow the entire code, I do happen to follow it and shall always be a gentleman it's what I am. Wether people like it or not.

[peachblossomluck]

You have class:)

[Phoenix98]

I try.

[AleDeEurope]

Hey, you're equal to men right? Aren't you capable of opening the door, or grabbing the pen you dropped?
Women killed chivalry by not appreciating it and thinking you deserve it just for being a woman; it's not for granted.
Also feminism is killing chivalry because well, it's obvious that with chivalry you aren't treating both genders equally.

There are still many chivalrous guys out there, I consider myself one, but I'm just polite, so I would hold the door for anyone that comes behind me, or I'll grab their pen if it's easier for me, but if she drops the pen and she can get it, I won't lean down to grab it, I'm not your butler.

[Scrambled]

I do it, for everyone. I helped an old lady at a train station for example. She couldn't get her luggage over some turnstiles so I helped her with it and carried it up the stairs for her. I am a fit guy and often give up my seat for people who look like they could use it more than me. I hold doors open for everyone, keep lifts open and let people with less items to check out at a shop go in front me. But in terms of attraction, I don't. Women see it as supplication and weakness. For example, I will hold the door open, but I won't pull the seat out or open the car door for her. Women are not attracted to that shit, I know. In fact, I only attract older women. I reckon its because I still have old school manners. The younger generation are more YOLO than chivalry.

[knight1986]

Chivalry... hmm... very interesting indeed. I grew up away from the city and so did my wife and i must say chivalry is fading into the history books in this concrete jungle. My wife is like you and that's partly why i love her so much. I do open doors and help her as much as i can... why do i do it... is it because i feel she can't do it... absolutely not... i do it because she's worth it each and every time. So what happens if she opens doors for me... its cool... i'm not going to go all crazy with her. I do feel sorry for all the women who want men to be chivalrous but i think men are scared of doing it and its all but dead now

[Blue_Brady]

If you weren't married I'd ask you to marry me now, that's the best answer here.

[knight1986]

Thank you so much for the compliment. Consider yourself a few in a million... you have great qualities that deserves the right man... its definitely becoming harder to find men with these qualities... but just hang in there. I also believe that women to a certain extent can bring out these qualities in her man. I sincerely hope that you find him... its an amazing experience for both him and her... life becomes so beautiful when you accept the differences between each other.

[Words_and_Wisdom]

Perhaps you should quit acting entitled and spoiled. Just because you have a vagina doesn't entitle you to the services of men.

Sure I would help out a woman if she needs, just like I would help anyone out. I open the door for men, women, and children. If a pen dropped by my foot that I noticed I'd pick it up. If I see someone has a lot of bags they're holding I'd offer to help. However, the persons gender doesn't matter to me.

And honestly, if you want those favors you should expect to return them.

[DonkeyKong1979]

Chivalry was a code of conduct that governed the ruling classes in feudal Europe , it allowed for the conduct of war and diplomacy on terms mutually understood by all participants, prescribing proper conduct on everything from greetings to ransoming noble prisoners of war (the rules of Chivalry made no allowances for common prisoners of war, they could be killed without a second thought).

Obviously, when the Feudal system became outmoded in the early modern period the rules of chivalry faded into irrelevance

[DreamsofPegasi]

Actually, Chivalry was a code that applied to knights. So, not /all/ of the ruling class.

Later on, it became analogous to being a gentleman, which also had something of a code of conduct when it came to interactions between the sexes. Which is what we're talking about here.

So while cute, your point is still sort of silly in a bad way.

[DonkeyKong1979]

Great wikipediaing, poor comprehension

[broadsword]

So true , its an older generation thing. I still do all the things you describe and have taught my children too. Its a loss of true respect. There is a whole generation that think they can demand respect. I here it being used totally out of concept. Respect has to be earnt or gained. There certainly is very little respect for elders with then breeds good manners , courteousness and chivalry.
I think some chivalry has died due to female equal rights. Wich is also a little sad.
Chivalry lives but in a greatly diminished capasity.

[ThatPunkGuy]

nice guys always finish last. why would i be a gentleman, just to end up alone and see how all the girls fall for idiotic bad boys. fuck that. in other words, i would just be a slave. I'd do everything for a woman and get nothing in return. again: fuck that. by the way are you too lazy to open the door yourself, or carry the bags yourself? men have to do all that shit, so why do women expect us to do it for them aswell? women want to be treated like men, but you still want us to open doors for you, carry your bags, give you our seats. for the last time: fuck that. you have hands so you can open doors yourself, if your bags are too heavy, dont buy so much, and if you want a seat, leave home a little earlier and ther will still be seat. nice guys finish last thats why I'll treat you like trash. but no, that's not what you want. you don't want a gentleman, you want a bad guy, you don't want to be treated like trash, but thats what bad guys do. fuck this shit.

[RationalLioness]

Some fools will say Feminism killed it. Untrue. That code was made in a time where women were treated like delicate beings (which some people see as sexist) and men had to "protect" us.

But now, a lot of people open doors for everyone. It's not about one gender getting preferred treatment. I just think it's respectful behavior to do to everyone in general.

[Blue_Brady]

True!

[Anonymous]

You could just as well ask why women don't act like ladies anymore. If you want special treatment and privileges, you have to be worthy of them. If you say you want to be treated exactly like men, then you must accept all that comes with it, good and bad. Women of the past appreciated chivalry from men instead of taking it for granted.

But people in general should always help others. I'll give up my seat on the bus for a pregnant woman or elderly person but not for a girl just out of chivalry. If the position were reversed, she'd never do that for me. If your bag is too heavy for you, that's kind of your fault. And why should anyone, guy or girl, give up their seat for you unless you have some disability?

Just saying there are societal reasons for why chivalry is disappearing, caused by women as well. It's not just a case of guys being uncaring and insensitive.

[Northeast106]

It's just today's times I think. For most people, the world revolves around them. People don't really respect others anymore, and everyone wants to be hard, violent, or entitled. I have held doors open for people, and I even picked up a girl's bandana recently when it fell and gave it back to her. Aside from that, I don't go out of my way to help others. I'll be honest, I'm probably a bit guilty of this myself. Today's times are a free for all for most people. Why help others, when no one helps you?

[lolalovesvedette]

"If she's gonna take a heavy bag, she better not look at me to carry it! Why she need such a heavy bag in the middle of the city?"

Usual thing a guy would say. And I agree.
However, would feel pretty good if a guy pulled a chair out for me or something. I'd feel like a woman. And when a woman feels like a woman.. woman wants man to do manly things ;) ;) *hint *hint

[I_am_repulsive]

Thanks for the hint. I'll use that as my answer next time I have a test.

[lolalovesvedette]

@I_am_repulsive I was implying great sex however

[I_am_repulsive]

Oh I knew what you meant.

[I_am_repulsive]

I used to be in the industry, if you know what I mean ^^

[lolalovesvedette]

@I_am_repulsive You were a gigolo?

[I_am_repulsive]

I wouldn't say gigolo, but something very close to that, an ex p*rnstar 7 years ago when I was 19 and 20 years old. Of course I looked way better then; I weighed about 125-130 lbs, I have the similar body like Manny Pacquiao, but instead of 6 pack, I only had 2 pack, and I never wore glasses then.

[lolalovesvedette]

@I_am_repulsive must've been fun whilst it lasted! Why did you stop?

[I_am_repulsive]

The business is someone chaotic, sometimes you don't know what kind of scenes you're going to do until you get there, I've always like the one to one scenes and not the dp scenes in which is sometimes hard to coordinate depending on how good your partner is of course. Basically, I stopped because I got sick and tired of it that I want to change my life for the better. Hence I move back to Canada, studied LPN, and became a nurse. I've been working as a nurse in almost 4 years now and I haven't looked back.

[Anonymous]

May I ask what you have done in your life to think you deserve to be treated like a queen? Don't say "I just want respect" because what you described is dudes waiting on the ground hand and feet for you that's not respect that's slavery. So again I ask what incredible deed have you done to think you deserve any of the things you feel so entitled to have? Did you donate a kidney to a dying kid? Did you jump on train tracks and help someone who was stuck on them? What makes you think you even deserve any of these acts from others?

[Opinion Owner]

I hate chivalry so much. Yet I'm sucked into it. I open doors for women if they drop something I have to pick it up. I have to do everything for them. I feel like a damn slave but I can't do anything about it because it was the only way I was taught to treat people. If I have kids I'll make sure they are never brainwashed to go through the same torture as me.

[Opinion Owner]

www.huffingtonpost.ca/.../...sexist_n_6847264.html ...

[Anonymous]

I think there are still a lot of courteous men (and women) out there, but our societies mibd set is so negative that people don't really notice anymore. That and people are too busy looking at their phones to look around atlas actual notice the things happening right in front of them. I am courteous and I notice people do courteous things all the time. Just stop and look around every once in a while and appreciate courtesy even if it isn't directed towards you. You will realize it's still very much alive if you look at it openly instead of waiting for it to be bestowed onto you.

[GirlsLie]

I don't think it has to do with "chivalry" I think people are just ruder and more selfish these days in general. I don't expect a man to do things for me because he's a man but I think people should do nice things for other people in general. I'm a girl and I hold doors open for people all of the time and i'm super polite to people.

[lumos]

Why would you even need help picking up a damn pen? Is that really so hard?

[NateInAk]

God bless you.
🙏

[Kshppatel]

@lumos Oh don't you know? She can't afford to get her nails she just got done dirty so she can' touch the ground with her holy self!

[thesunstillshines]

Best post girl

[ihatethiswebsite]

Completely agree 💪🏻

[Blue_Brady]

Was just saying

[StickStickity13]

Hahahahaha

[lumos]

Just saying what? That you can't handle picking up a pen without someone holding your hand? :p

[notverycreativeguy]

Things just change, accept it. To be honest, from the way you talk, I see you are one of these "oh, yeah, equality is awesome, but my sex should be treaten better"-people, can't stand it, but well, fuck this, I dislike most people anyway.
Holding the door open for someone, no matter male or female, and picking up a pen are basic manners in my opinion by the way.
Offering anybody to help with their bag or offering a seat is nothing you would do for strangers or just acquaintances, it's too much and makes the impression of being interested in the girl you are 'helping'.

[iAmNotSkilled1]

U can say that its basically safer. for example , u said : "some guys can't even offer to help a girl with a heavy bag" ... when my father was a kid (13-12 years old) , a woman asked him to help her by taking some things that she bought from the market upstairs. He said okay. As he was going up the stairs the lights kept on getting dimmer and dimmer till they reached her apartment where there was not a single light wave. My father heard a guy saying "they came , they came ! " He quickly ran away and as he did , a guy started running and tried to catch him but he could not. SO , can u give me another examples on chivalry?

[jwhit]

That was weird.