What is MGTOW all about? Is it mostly guys, men who are giving up on women? Give up on finding a girlfriend/wife? Or is there more to it than that?

[Anonymous]

I'm just curious how MGTOW came to exist, and am I right?, did I already answer my own question a little bit when I said that a huge portion of guys, men, who are part of MGTOW, are guys who are planning to stay single, give up on searching, pursuing a girlfriend/wife? And do you think a certain portion of MGTOW guys, are guys who have either never had a girlfriend before or still a virgin?

Updates

+1 y

I'm curious and wondering if i should become an MGTOW guy because I struggle to get dates or get a girlfriend, would that be the right fit for me?

[PatriarchalOppressor]

I'm not a MGTOW - but I am of the MGTOW mindset. MGTOW isn't a political organization. MGTOW isn't an identity. One can't be a 'MGTOW'. Those of the MGTOW mindset don't have leaders. They don't have meetings. They don't hold rallies. They don't get tax dollars - nor do they expect them. Those of the MGTOW mindset simply see the world through a clearer lens, one free of gynocentric illusions and enchantments. At best, MGTOW is a philosophy. One cannot be a philosophy.

As an example, I'm well educated, net worth is 13X the median, am single, make close to 200K annually, have no debt and will retire soon at a young age. I'm 6' 2" and have been called handsome. I can stay single or get into a 'relationship'. If I stay single, I keep my autonomy, make my own decisions, go where I want, associate with whomever I please and essentially rule my own life as I see fit. Being single, no one has the legal or financial power to destroy my life through a 'relationship'.

However, if I engage in an intimate relationship with a woman, be it through a legal marriage or through cohabitation, I'm legally and financially liable for alimony, asset division, child support and civil suit payouts following false accusations. I can even be forced to pay for children that aren't mine. If falsely accused, I will be presumed guilty and lose my rights to due process. In a 'relationship', I lose my autonomy, sovereignty and risk severe consequences through legal and financial destruction (forced wealth transfer from men to women). I don't understand why anyone would put themselves in such a losing situation - unless of course if you're the one who would gain in such a situation - which is why women want men that hold more wealth than they do. They know they'll win if things go south - which they very often do.

So you see, those of the MGTOW mindset do not hate women. They merely understand how the game is played. They simply don't engage in situations in which doing so would give a woman the power to destroy them legally or financially. Trillions have been transferred from men to women through no-fault divorce over the past few decades. There are dozens of female-friendly laws and policies that remove men's ability to compete with women in the courts and on the job.

The MGTOW mindset is really just a simple manifestation of 'no means no'. My body - my choice. My life - not yours. MGTOW are the backlash to male disposability and cultural misandry (think male-only conscription).

[CasaNorba]

I'm kinda getting sick of explaining what its all about.

anyways its a movement that helps us men how to be ourselves and enjoy being ourselves without the approval of the opposite gender. and no we are not bitter virgin losers like the majority of the people who are against our movement try to portray us as, we are just normal human beings who fed up at how gynocentric our society has become and therefore we again choose to find other better and exciting things to do with our lives besides wasting our life away chasing down pussy that isn't gonna benefit us at all in the long run but on the contrary it can sure as hell be hazardous to us.

[Asker]

I guess only a very few of MGTOW guys are guys who struggle to get dates?

[CasaNorba]

I myself never struggled to get dates, I'm just tired and fed up to actually go on date and prioritizing the opposite gender like it actually pays off in the end.

I just woke up one day and realize why am I wasting my time, gas and money on pussy like a sucker? and what's the point of being successful with women? especially now in a society where not all but most women are useless concubines who offer sex in exchange for easy stuff like money, status and favors?

[Asker]

Ya I feel I might have an MGTOW mentality because I've always hated the gender role that guys have to make the first move and be the initiator

[CasaNorba]

exactly!

not that I'm trying to convince you to join our movement but yea a lot of the members in our movement share this same mentality. we are again sick and tired of how gynocentric and overly feminized our society has become where we men must put in all the hard work in almost every situation while constantly being told that both genders are "EQUAL."

[Asker]

So you hate the gender role too that guys are expected to approach and be the initiator? Glad I'm not alone in feeling like that

[CasaNorba]

you best believe you aren't brother. that one is just a warm up, there are many others I can point out

[cth96190]

When I was a teenager and then a 20-something I could almost not get a date, because I was not a bad boy, or some other type of scumbag.
About the age of 30 I went MGTOW before there was a name for it. I looked at a data set of 15 years of rejections and came to an evidence-based conclusion that I was wasting my time. So, I took the only rational course of action, which was to walk away.
By the time that I was 35, women were hitting on me and asking me out. That is still happening. At the moment, there are four women who are sniffing around, two of whom have propositioned me for sex.
I am not interested. I could not be less interested. A few seconds of orgasmic release, versus a potential sexual harassment complaint; or a false rape allegation; or the loss of my home and future pension.
All things considered, the juice is not worth the squeeze.
They can go back to the bad boys who made them tingle in their panties when they were 20. They deserve each other.

[Scrambledagain]

I never knew it was like that. I'm probably the most MGTOW dude there is. Nice explanation. I wouldn't label myself as such or join a group... because, well I do what I do regardless of labels;)

[redeyemindtricks]

@Scrambledagain "I'm probably the most MGTOW dude there is"

^^ uh
aren't you married? (and/or in some similar type of long-term rl)
**and** you spend some significant fraction of yr income on escorts, too?

I mean, if YOU are "mgtow", then, "mgtow" really doesn't mean anything *at all*.

[cth96190]

@redeyemindtricks
There are four levels of MGTOW.
Some have interaction with women, some do not.
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFWFJJ8RZs

[redeyemindtricks]

@cth96190 Obviously not watching a 40+ minute video.

I googled "4 levels of mgtow", and even the lowest "level" still apparently requires rejection of long-term relationships.
Scrambled is in a long-term, cohabiting rl -- I'm pretty sure they're married.

[Scrambledagain]

@redeyemindtricks lol... in my defense, I don't know what MGTOW is and have only seen it in gag. In my opinion, the core of this, like op tries to illustrate, is exactly what any normal bad boy does: his own thing (women or not) and couldn't give a shit. Like I said, it's just labels, I wouldn't put myself as anything other than... well... Scrambled:) Yes I have my women, but none of them own me, like I don't own them. I'm in a long term, I'm actually in two long terms (my primary and my submissive). We have been together for over a year. So yeah, if long term is not mgtow, then I'm not. But I also have short terms with others. So what does that make me🤔

[redeyemindtricks]

@Scrambledagain "So what does that make me"

^^ Someone who should have put a little more of that energy into his music career?

s.pikabu.ru/.../1379059347_419492421.gif

[Asker]

Sometimes I feel ashamed of myself for hating and resenting the gender role that guys have to be the hunters, initiators, makes me wonder if it is due to parental upbringing, childhood social experiences or its just part of my natural born personality, if it's the first, then it makes me more mad and upset because I've felt for you years now that a guys parental upbringing impacts his dating life/sex life more than the other way around

[Scrambledagain]

@ op. You nailed it on the head.

I see men blame feminism, evolution, blah blah. But at the core of it, your unconscious, it's your parents.

The greatest thing that happened to me was when I moved countries. I left my family and friends. And in hindsight, it's not like they were consciously toxic or out to hurt me, they were just so traditional and their out look on life is so flawed. They transpose their view of life on their kids. My brother is still trapped. I escaped that environment. And you know what, my brother is thee classic example of the jock who became a nothing and I'm the nerd who got nothing who is building everything. That's why I'm so aggressive in getting women. I missed out and am catching up on wasted time.

[Scrambledagain]

@redeyemindtricks lol... love the pic.

I have been recruited for a band in Brisbane by a top Master in the bdsm scene. we going for sexually explicit shock rock. I must admit though, these guys know more about bdsm than music and I'm pulling them by their hair to get the actual music done.

[Asker]

Ya it doesn't matter how a girl is raised by her parents, family, its not gonna impact her feminine nature, but the other way around? A guy has to be raised a certain way if he wants to be molded and develop masculinity, hard to put in words

[CasaNorba]

@cth96190

I pretty much end up being a mgtow member way before its existence as well. growing up in such a bad neighborhood filled with nothing but stuck up drama queens and stuckup hoochies pretty much smacked me hard at knowing the fact that women aren't as sweet and harmless as they appear to be in movies, drama novels, video games, cartoons, etc. however I was still having my hopes up in high school which was the first time and last time I started dating hoping that I was gonna get that nice decent girl life has promise me. they were all stuckup hoochies but one of them was a straight up sociopath. this bitch even try to send some thugs after me to take me out! so after then I said fuck it, why the hell waste my time and risk my life trying to please all these damn overly feminized she-devils of our society that ain't gonna do good for me in the long run?

[Scrambledagain]

Look, a bad childhood effects women too. But with regards to sex, a woman by right of being a woman can get it any time despite her upbringing. Go read articles on escorts and prostitutes. A lot of them had bad childhoods and yet can CHARGE for sex. they do bad at work (lack of work skills) then CHARGE for sex if they need cash. Basically a woman doesn't have to have any skills or personality and get sex. Even charge for it. Men can't do this. You could be a really awesome dude and still not get laid. There is only one way a man has the same sexual power as a woman generally. Money. And it's not goldigging or anything like that. Or that money attracts women per se (which it does often though anyway). But a man can create his own world with money, and it surpasses his personality like a woman's sexuality surpasses her personality.

[CasaNorba]

@Scrambledagain

thanx! to be honest I don't think is our parents either I think is our fucked up money hungry government that causing all this conundrum if you think about it. all these bullshit markets they create for us to alter our mentalities so they can continue to consume our money like leaches. so with that said us MGTOW we dont only slay feminism at their own games we also help expose all the bullshit our society puts in our heads.

[itsallover]

For the guys that have gone through tough divorces and difficult custodial battles, I can kind of empathise. But at the same time, just because a couple women did them dirty, that's not an excuse to paint us all with the same brush.

As for the other portion, the guys who've never really been in a relationship/married before, I think it's quite pathetic. They feel inadequate because they've constantly been rejected, so instead of looking at themselves as the common denominator, they are misogynistic and attack women instead. We're all gold-digging, shallow cheaters as far as they're concerned. These men are of no loss overall, I doubt any woman would want to be with a man who thinks so fouly of us as a whole.

[Primemutton]

I am not part of this movement but I am very much a guy who has never had a girlfriend or even a date. I don't say bad things about women though I do moan as my posts here will show you about how complex the whole dating game is , nor do I consider myself misogynistic. I must say I find what you have written nasty and offensive. I don't understand why where are women (too many in this site) who lambast and attack men who have failed to attract a partner. We are not necessarily bogeymen who are bitterly conniving machine gun attacks on shopping malls.

[itsallover]

@Primemutton If you're not part of the movement then this doesn't even apply to you,. I don't demean guys who have just had trouble finding a partner like you, I demean those who also bash us and blame us for every single one of their problems.

[Truthatanycost]

If what you say is true, why did you feel the need to bring yourself down to their level? This just keeps the cycle going.

This reminds me of an incident I had at work one day. A woman was very rude. When I responded to her, I could have bought myself down to her level and shouted the whole building down but I did not.

I told her off, pointed out a few things, she felt stupid in the process, apologized, reflected on her behavior, tried to apologize again and again. It turned out that she had suffered a death of a close family member too.

Now if I had just lowered myself to her level, attacked her in an angry way then what would have been the point?

We should rise above each other when possible and I have also been guilty of lowering myself down to other peoples levels too but will try to learn not to.

[jp612612]

I told you guys about my co-worker Rod and myself. Yeah, we both went through tough divorces and REALLY tough custody battles. But I don't think that either of us would say that we view women as evil or dirty. It's just that the importance of having an intimate relationship with a woman has been severely downgraded amidst other priorities. I've worked pretty hard and my career has gone great. I made $385,000 last year and no, money isn't everything but I can tell you that the money and success of my career has brought me a lot of happiness. I have two daughters. My God, they're the greatest things in the world. They've also brought me unbelievable amounts of happiness. Dating? Eh. I mean, I still date. I love going to overpriced hipster restaurants and I love Broadway musicals and I never go alone. But whoever I'm dating knows that I don't answer calls or texts when I have my daughters and when something at work comes up, she needs to find something else to do.

[SongBird3]

HAHA!
sounds to me like they try to justify the fact that they can't get girls
lame lol

[Truthatanycost]

Then they are doing you a favor by staying away from you. Surely that's not lame but a nice favor!

[SongBird3]

Hey! Im js! Its stupid for girls to give up guys and vise versa. Its a load of bs.

[Truthatanycost]

You just said they can't get girls. There is only so many times they can try before they should give up right.

[SongBird3]

Exactly the majority of those in that group or people who started it probably did it to justify them being single. Like "ill pretend that im giving up women to hide the fact that i can't get a girl"
Lol

[SongBird3]

All honesty tho, im joking around

[Truthatanycost]

Oh you were only joking? A version of Mgtow has almost ended Japan, there birth rate is now so low, they are offering people money.

[SongBird3]

Ok, they dont wanna overpopulate. So what?

[VeritechAce]

Actually, what you're doing is projecting.

Not that I think you can't get women, but rather you're projecting you're own insecurities, or what you're motivation be were you in that situation.

[SongBird3]

Well considering I my self am a women and in a relationship, Im not projecting anything lol

[VeritechAce]

Yes, I know you're a woman that's not the point. I'm saying it's projection because you're expressing what your motivations would be were you a man who chose to go MGTOW. It's projection because you don't see it from "his" perspective, only from your perspective.

[SongBird3]

Or i was just a person making a joke. But sure lets go with that

[Truthatanycost]

Jokes are sometimes the truth with a disclaimer added on the end though.

[SongBird3]

"One of the pitiful truths about comedy, you're always taking shots from folks who just don't get the joke"

[VeritechAce]

Look, I don't mean to get all serious on you, but I get a little annoyed at the "MGTOW are just a bunch of losers who can't get girls." Especially when every MGTOW I interact with online and IRL, nothing could be further from the truth.

But, for argument's sake, let's presume you're assertion. Why then would you consider this a subject for levity? Why would you make fun of such a person?

[SongBird3]

Because last time I checked I joke were just jokes and being pc is stupid

[BellePepper]

It's a bunch of guys with anxiety issues who refuse to seek treatment.

[VeritechAce]

MGTOW 1.0 started in the MRM (Men's Rights Movement) around the year 2000 or so which was more about, as expressed in the MGTOW Manifesto, masculinity in men and femininity in women. MGTOW 2.0 generally reject the Manifesto as being inadequate and broke away from the MRM due to ideological differences. The essential difference boils down to this: the MRM seeks to include women in their efforts and assert that a man can be married and MGTOW. MGTOW 2.0 assert that it is impossible for a man to "go his own way" and be married; also, MGTOW 2.0 believe the MRM efforts over the past 20 years have failed, and will never succeed, because of the hypergamous nature of women and the gynocentric nature of society, and any effort to include women in a men's movement will always end in failure.

Anyone who asserts that a MGTOW are guys who have never had a girlfriend, or can't handle women simply does not know anyone who is MGTOW. MGTOW are men who have actually had girlfriends or wives, and are simply fed up with the BS that occur in relationships. However, there is indeed a certain portion of men, known as TFL (True Forced Loneliness) or INCELs (Involuntary Celibates) who have glommed on to the MGTOW label. These are the ones people point to claiming that MGTOW are just men who can't get laid. IMHO though, to actually be a MGTOW you've had to actually deal with women, not be shunned by them.

MGTOW are mostly men who have gotten divorced (often multiple times), are men who are former PUA (Pick Up Artists) who have discovered the shallowness of that lifestyle, or are just men who are simply fed up with childish, solipsistic, and intractable women (I would put myself in this last category).

[Asker]

So I'm guessing only either a small portion or just a certain portion of guys are MGTOW because they struggle to get dates or get a girlfriend?

[VeritechAce]

by the way, there are a lot of MGTOW who still date women. Some even have long term relationships. The common thread is, they will not marry, nor will they have children. The point is not to allow a woman to control you're life.

[Asker]

What about the guys who struggle to get a date or get a girlfriend? Is MGTOW the right group for them?

[VeritechAce]

"I'm curious and wondering if i should become an MGTOW guy because I struggle to get dates or get a girlfriend, would that be the right fit for me?"

To answer you're question, I'd say no, becoming a MGTOW because you struggle with getting dates is probably the worst reason to become a MGTOW. I would absolutely recommend that you first study the MGTOW philosophy and more importantly understand what MGTOW say about women and why they say it. Seek to understand women, from a MGTOW perspective, from a feminist perspective, from an MRA perspective, and even from a PUA perspective. Seek understanding first, then you'll be able to choose for yourself, from a position of strength whether or not to go your own way. To do any less is indeed giving up.

[VeritechAce]

So you say you struggle. Let me ask you this... Why are you struggling? Is it something that is within your power to change? Is it because you don't understand women? You are a man, and the first thing you need to understand as a man is that no one will fix your problems for you; you have to solve them yourself. Also you need to understand that anything worth doing is going to be a struggle, and where women are concerned, both sides of that coin are a struggle. Having a woman in your life is a struggle; going your own way from women is a struggle.

[VeritechAce]

"What about the guys who struggle to get a date or get a girlfriend? Is MGTOW the right group for them?"

For men such as you describe, I would say no. In such cases MGTOW only becomes a crutch and a deflection; it becomes a denial of deeper and more fundamental problem. This is why I have a problem with TFLers who claim to be MGTOW. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have a problem; TFLers never get beyond that first step.

However, MGTOW philosophy is useful for such men in that it helps them understand the nature of women. So, we don't reject them; instead we try to help them see themselves and women as they truly are.

[Asker]

Ya if you are a man, as in human male, no one will fix your problems, but not the other way around

[jp612612]

I know this may not be MGTOW in its purest form, but I have this co-worker, Rod and he's actually what I think about when MGTOW is mentioned. The guy is single and has things set up such that he leaves work every day by 3pm to pick up his daughter. The guy is a triathlete, rock climber, snowboarder, and amateur pilot. When you look at his Facebook, you might see a picture of him piloting some plane over the west coast somewhere -- and the next picture is one of his 13 year old daughter wearing aviator glasses and a headset as she holds the yoke. Same thing with rock climbing or skiing photos: if there's one of him, there's always one of his daughter. When you go to her Facebook, it's all pictures of her clutching her dad with a huge smile on her face. I used to think Rod was weird. No, Rod has his priorities down.

And the thing is, Rod still dates but he makes it very clear that it'll never be serious. He doesn't allow anyone he's dating to call or text his phone on the days he has his daughter. If a girl he's dating breaks this rule, he immediately cuts her off.

After going through my divorce, I talked to Rod a lot about this and while I'm not sure I can do exactly what he does (I seem to like dating more than he does), I do emulate some of the things. For example, I also don't answer phone calls or texts one the days I have my daughters. I get my girls six out of 14 days so for a lot of women, that's not really acceptable. Oh well.

Is this MGTOW? I'm not sure... but it sure feels like a version of it and if it is, I think people should see that it's not all about men feeling defeated or giving up. It's a rearrangement of priorities. My daughters, me, my work, my family, my friends, my investment accounts, my rental properties and somewhere way, way, way down the line, there's my romantic life with women.

[DrTruth]

I'm MGTOW and have no problems getting dates. What MGTOWs do agree on is the idea that marriage is toxic and society sees men as disposable utilities. Check out this to understand HOW men become MGTOW.

https://i.imgur.com/ZROnRAQ.png

i908.photobucket.com/.../...entury_zpsm4um8fz7.jpg

[37wallflower73]

Wow, this was fucking depressing. It's only one scenario though. I have witnessed the other side of the spectrum in where the woman was the one cheated on, and the father, after having a restraining order put on him, makes no effort to contact the children once it ended but instead harasses their mother every time he gets drunk.

[DrTruth]

@37wallflower73 In your case, who pays alimony, pays child support, and owns the house. In America, men pay 90% of the time. You witnessed one woman that got screwed in marriage 2.0. I seen dozens first hand from male friends and relatives that got financially raped in family court.

[37wallflower73]

The woman went into massive debt just to get the divorce. The man only pays child support half the time, when he feels like it. Low incoming housing, neither owned the house, and she is the one that has to raise the children. I gave one example to show the other side of the scenario, as I too have witnessed numerous men AND women getting screwed in the courtroom. You seem to support the idea that men have it worse in the eyes of the law. I think that women have it just as bad.

[DrTruth]

@37wallflower73. I didn't say men have it worse. However, more men than women get screwed over in divorces. This isn't an opinion. It's fact. 90% of the time it's the men that pay child support and alimony. 70% of women initiate the divorce. Women rarely marry down meaning men that make less than they do. Generally speaking, marriage has no benefit for men. It's does benefit women in divorce. I'm sure there's exceptions. But, exceptions prove the rule.

[37wallflower73]

Okay, I can understand what you're saying. I am also of the opinion that marriage is high risk and more beneficial for the women in a divorce. However, it makes sense as they are most often the ones left raising the child. I personally have a low opinion of marriage, and in the result of a divorce, it should benefit the party raising the child, no matter the gender.

[Deuteros]

This is the most honest take on modern relationships I've ever seen. %100 true.

[Slartybartfast]

Best answer, so true.
This is exactly me.

[Primemutton]

It's men who have thrown the sponge in from constant rejection or an inability to date and communicate well with women (usually being starved of their presence in their teens is the culprit ) it encompasses more men than you would think. If you take them out of the game along with obese men who are defo out of the game , and other "non dateable men" (you'll have to ask the ladies what that means ) it does lead to a shrunken pool of men. I have no idea how women get round this.

[Asker]

Because a lot of people say that MGTOW guys, are not guys who struggle to get dates or get a girlfriend, while some say the opposite

[Borginborg]

yes you answered your own question and a lot of short dicked men that dont want to take the time to learn how to use what they got

[Borginborg]

no and no. dont be defeated. so you go a few months without a date. it is all in the numbers, if you dont play the numbers you dont win.

[cth96190]

MGTOW are primarily men who have done a cost/risk/benefit calculation of involvement with women and reached an evidence-based conclusion that the risks and costs exceed the real or potential benefit.
See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwPFnvniA7w

[Kaazsz]

To me it's a bunch of guys where 99% of them are idiots, and the other 1% are still dumb but they at least SOUND smart when they make their case. Unfortunately like most people they fail to apply their logic and brain power further below the surface level of any issue and thus to me their arguments are sad, pathetic, uneducated, lazy, and counterproductive.

[Tarvold]

Whilst I don't self identify as MGTOW, I do acknowledge that the way I think is very MGTOW-leaning.

The way I see it, MGTOW are just people who see through the bullshit that is feminism.

[Asker]

So a lot of MGTOW guys are single guys who want to give up on finding a girlfriend?

[Tarvold]

Nope. Neither part of that statement is true.

[Asker]

So then a lot of MGTOW guys are able to get girlfriends then

[Tarvold]

Actually, yes. A lot of them are married even.

Also, by definition, all players are MGTOW even though they wouldn't identify as one.

[Asker]

Well then from what I've observed, a lot of guys who complain about lack of success with women seem to mention MGTOW in their vocabulary

[OrdinaryGentleman]

It's more that they don't wish to conform to gender roles, roles such as the males having to put up with things that would otherwise be if flipped, offensive to females.

[Asker]

Ya, me for example I hate how I was dealt with the card of having to approach and be the initiator

[OrdinaryGentleman]

You'd be surprised but people are actually talking about that in my college. I go to college in california... ultra lib PC kinda thing.

[Asker]

You mean there are other guys you talk to that admit their frustration, resentment, that they have to be the ones to approach and be the initiators?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Of course, most every guy wants that, they are simply afraid to admit it.

[Asker]

Most every guy you mean would love it if more women approached and initiated?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Pretty much from what i've heard from alotta guys

[OrdinaryGentleman]

.. i mean its cool n all but you'll find a gal eventually.

[Asker]

Has dating been easy for you?

[redeyemindtricks]

@ordinarygentleman When I hear guys saying they wish women would be more forward about approaching them, I think they have a tendency to think only about the women they would actually WANT to approach them -- in other words, the women to whose approaches they would actually say "Yes".

Do you think most guys would be good at *rejecting* the approaches of the women they DON'T want?
Because... based on what I've seen, I don't think most guys would be terribly good at this. I think that because (1) most guys aren't used to being put in a spot like that to begin with, AND (2) guys are socialized to think that they should never say "no" to an opportunity with a woman... that guys would be absolutely awful at rejecting the women they didn't want.

What do you think?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks I think it's more of a shift in cultural implications if anything. I have chatted with some girls in the past who have literally said i wanted to approach you but i wanted you to come to me.
Personally i think some guys are bad at it but most aren't bad at rejecting. If they are bad at it then its a clear sign that they weren't good material to start with. Where as with girls its like bland as fuck... "i have a boyfriend" "get away you pasty freak" "Who are you and where am i" "why does my crotch feel like its on fire" "untie me and let me go, please!"
sorta deal.
The thing is, out of the two sexes women are by far more picky about guys. He has to have everything she wants and when he doesn't match up to all of these things, she rejects him. If women like the guy they are hanging out with then they should go after them. With guys its like putting your dick into the hole of a tree hoping there isn't some wasp nest or spider there...

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Wait for it...

[OrdinaryGentleman]

With girls, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I would argue 65% or more of the time a girl could ask a guy out and not be rejected. The only thing that is making guys get all weird about it is because some men are intimidated by confident women... we can call these men utter pussies. Otherwise, i see it as only a better time for a lot of dudes. I also have to wager that a lot of school shootings are centered around the man not feeling accepted... where as in Northern European countries, there are no school massacres... mainly because not only is their health care and educational systems awesome but their girls roam in packs and look for guys to hit on.

[redeyemindtricks]

"The thing is, out of the two sexes women are by far more picky about guys. He has to have everything she wants and when he doesn't match up to all of these things, she rejects him"

^^ I wouldn't be so sure about that dude. We're a bit more picky about who we'll FUCK -- especially in the short run -- but, I hope *that* isn't too hard to understand.

But... yeah, women will definitely go with all kinds of dudes who don't "have everything we want". Are you freaking kidding me. What girl doesn't have at least a few "What the hell was I thinking?" stories?

If you think this is a thing, then, you're probably just forgetting about the sheer NUMBER of guys who approach us, just day to day.
I mean... I'm older than dirt, I'm married AF, and I don't go to too many places that are full of strangers (since my work is all client-facing and word-of-mouth-based)... and STILL I get hit on, several times a day.
When I was yr age, my whole *life* was basically an endless procession of guys hitting

[redeyemindtricks]

on me. (Slight exaggeration, but, not much -- it could have been in the triple digits, as far as "approaches" / "signs of interest" from guys PER DAY.)

I mean... Given numbers like THOSE... OF COURSE we're going to develop certain reflex-type "shut down" reactions.
And OF COURSE we're going to auto-reject for certain things... including "sitting there and waiting for US to approach".
And OF COURSE we're going to be short, and curt, and other things that are often mistaken for "bitchy", with those rejections -- even if we're trying NOT to be bitchy. Dude, if we're not short about it, WE'D SPEND ALL DAY just rejecting dudes trying to hit on us.

Srsly... Hundreds of times a week, at yr age.
Guys tend to forget this.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Lmao well of course some would not all though. If you are saying that girls don't have preferences... and just are like ladeedah eh fuckit im gonna go bang the homeless guy down the street,
my jaw would be halfway to china by now.

[redeyemindtricks]

"If you are saying that girls don't have preferences... and just are like ladeedah eh fuckit im gonna go bang the homeless guy down the street,"

^^ Yeah not literally, of course... but, surprisingly many women have ex's who *seem* as awful as "the homeless guy down the street" in retrospect.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Yeah exactly, you'll reject a 100 times a day. Meaning a 100 guys would be like well fuck there goes another one... they asked 10 people and only got one number. 10% is actually not a bad ratio.
Do you realize how lucky that is? having to not do shit? It's like how some middle class people have to work a shitty 9/5 job come home and repeat (dating for women), at least they get to enjoy nice vacations n shit... but then some welfare check people (any guy under an 8/10) are just like well wtf dude i wanna have a go at this too support my fam n do this too.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Why people bang their ex's is beyond me personally.

[redeyemindtricks]

"welfare check people (any guy under an 8/10)"

^^ LOOOL
Dude... the vast majority of guys yr age get girlfriends and get laid. Yr 10-point system is seriously fucked if you think anyone below an eight is "sexual welfare check people".

[redeyemindtricks]

"Why people bang their ex's is beyond me personally."

^^ I'm talking about looking back on those relationships when they were still relationships. Lol.

I can't speak for guys, but, if a woman goes back to fucking her ex, 9/10 times it's because he just fucked her really, really good, and she's horny, and... better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Hmm no you see we can't see eye to eye on this. Because like you said (paraphrased) long ago some people understand sex as nothing more than something like a kiss in passing where as you and others see it more of an emotional connection.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Do you realize how fucking boring dating around is?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

People always say "play the field" well the field makes me sick to my stomach with both boredom and unease.

[Asker]

Like when did you last have a girlfriend?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Iv'e had 2 gfs both serious
1 from ages 12-16
then the last from 16 to 19
after that last one went bonkers it kinda turned me off from seeing girls. Perhaps girls have gotten the crazy out at my age but i wouldn't know because i haven't gotten all that close with them

[Asker]

So you lost your virginity in high school

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Younger.

[Asker]

Middle school then?

[OrdinaryGentleman]

Why do you need to know?

[redeyemindtricks]

"like you said (paraphrased) long ago some people understand sex as nothing more than something like a kiss in passing where as you and others see it more of an emotional connection"

^^ Yeah, I talk about that distinction a lot (mostly because too many people here talk like it's *always* one way or the other).

About me specifically, though, you got it twisted -- I'm DEFINITELY one of the ones who can fuck for no purpose beyond just getting off. Sometimes, purposely "emotionless" sex can be pretty damn thrilling (although you might come back at that by saying that even "thrilling" is... an emotion).
Emotionally connected sex is the BEST, as I see it -- and after having a really amazing sexual connection with someone I'm ALSO deeply in love with, it'd be hard to go back -- but, wherever you got the idea that I'm one of the ones who NEEDS an emotional connection, oh hell no. Lol.

I thought I always made it clear that I was pretty slutty back in the day, and have never regretted a damn

[redeyemindtricks]

thing about it.
Far from it in fact -- When I was going through the worst, thickest stages of depression back then, tbh my sexuality was one of the few things that made me still want to LIVE. Emotional connection? The hell if that mattered...

But now I'm wondering if I've done THAT shitty of a job of communicating on here, that you somehow ended up with a message that's white when it was supposed to be black...

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Hmm yeah, well as i said before i wanna adopt that attitude but I don't know how to go about doing that.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks I mean i get that though that emotional sex is the best but regular sex just seems so... foreign.

[redeyemindtricks]

I don't think people really CAN just "adopt that attitude". I think it's almost like sexual orientation -- like, hardwired by a *very* young age.

Like, whether you're sociosexually "restricted" (= need the emotional connection) or "unrestricted" (= an emotional connection might be nice, but sure as hell isn't necessary) -- or at whatever point in between -- is kinda like whether you're gay or straight. It just is what it is.

[OrdinaryGentleman]

@redeyemindtricks Gotcha.

[CisScum]

It's a bunch of losers who give up after they see a few bad women.

Basically a bunch of cry babies.

[cth96190]

Clearly, you do not understand what MGTOW is about.
Perhaps when you are older, after you have been arse raped by a divorce court, or ruined by a false rape allegation, you might understand.

[Junlian]

@cth96190 omg yes @cth96190 is right. this generation is backwards. Girls want feminism they get a lot of shit for it, guys gone mgtow guys are seen as pussies. But yet no one clearly defined what it mean, nor lived through the heart break of how poorly we as two genders treat each other.

[Junlian]

Mgtow
M- men
G-going
T-there
O- own
W- way

It's when guys had enough of girls bullshit.

[Anonymous]

For some it's a protest because they think things are stacked against men. They believe they aren't given a fair shake because they are men.

[Rattata]

MGTOWs are the male version of radical feminists. They're ugly and they know it, and so they created their own special club where it's okay to be a loser and it's always the other persons' fault, just as radfems did.

[Asker]

So some of them are guys who struggle to get dates?

[Slartybartfast]

100% truth.

[Saoirse_Nua]

I try to be fair and will say I think that they are probably men who had bad experiences with women but like a lot of movements some members go too far in their rhetoric.

[Dred1614returns]

It's a bunch of guys that irrationally hate women. Such a sad way to live.

[cth96190]

It appears that you do not understand MGTOW. There is nothing irrational about it. MGTOW make an evidence-based decision that the cost and risk of interaction with women in Western society exceeds any real or potential benefit, so they opt out.

[frustratedchump06]

i do believe it is a certain portion of what you are describing

[Yoloxt23]

For me, is all about war till true equality for EVERY-SINGLE-GODDAMN-CREATURE-ON-THIS-PLANET!

[Barrabus_the_Free]

Have you tried Google?

[_Gone_]

I can barely recall what it stands for...

[ProbablyTooMature]

What the crap? What's a mgtow?

[Truthatanycost]

You are probably too mature to know about them.

[ProbablyTooMature]

@Truthatanycost As is always the case it seems.