What do you think of the phrase, "It's easier to ask for pardon than permission"?

[DishLady]

I was fine-tuning a project that's going to be a very big deal in a few weeks...

The guy I like (though we've been on the outs with each other for months) has been trying to play nice with me and jumped into a conversation I was having, offering a deal I would never have gotten in my wildest fantasies...

I asked about a few details and his answer is, "... I would say just do it.” That's very him... he just does whatever he wants and moves on. It gets him into a lot of trouble, of course.

So I tell him he's very pushy... "In the good way, but still."

He answers that, "It's easier to ask for pardon than permission."

in my opinion, it was an odd thing to say to someone you've been trying to reconcile with... I answered. "I’ll have to remember that." And left it at that.

In truth, the comment caught me off guard and explains every problem I've ever had with him. (For example, while I like his bravado, I also think he should have better manners when he's talking to older people, to me, etc. And a thought process like that impacts his ability to be consistent with others in general.)

Of course, this is most likely something he said with his usual bravado, which he'll forget in a flash... But I can't shake the odd feeling the statement left me with. Hmm.

What do y'all think?

[OlderAndWiser]

If doing the right thing was always easy, everyone would always do the right thing and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Yes, sometimes you can do something wrong and later be given absolution, but you will still be remembered as the lady who did the wrong thing. And perhaps, if you had asked in advance, the answer would have been "no." So that doesn't mean that it's okay to do the wrong thing and then ask for forgiveness. That's just a mantra for the people who don't care about following the right path.

[DishLady]

I’m not sure you saw the story, OW… it’s more about the guy who said it.

[OlderAndWiser]

I red the story, and when I said "you," I was not referring to you specifically, but just to anyone who would offer that excuse. In fact, I have a good sense that you - specifically you - are always concerned with doing the right thing, and that is one reason why I respect you. I should have been more careful when I drafted my response.

[DishLady]

Aww. OW, you’re so sweet. Yeah I try to be mindful but sometimes I hear something like this and it sticks in my craw and bugs me.

[OlderAndWiser]

It should bother you. It is a somewhat subtle excuse for knowingly and intentionally doing the wrong thing.

[HawkPerception]

I hate that because it justifies someone doing something they know is wrong and thinking that asking for forgiveness is better rather than permission.

My buddy of mine had a joint business account with his dad and when he was struggling financially, he decided to take many thousands out of the account and use it for himself rather than asking his dad for permission. He used the same line and I told him that was not okay. The line genuinely pisses me off.

In some scenarios it might be okay. Like say... your parents are overly strict and never let you go out to have fun with friends and you decide to sneak out one night and your parents find out you snuck out the next day. In that case, sure ask for forgiveness from your overbearing parents.

But I think in most scenarios, especially relationships between 2 adults, it's generally more bad than good.

[Anonymous]

I think there is truth in it unless we are talking about anything sexual. I am game for pretty much anything, but NOT if he doesn't get the green light from me first.

[DishLady]

Exactly.

[ryanrhino]

I disagree. It's easier to ask for permission because that's before you say or do something upsetting, offensive, or simply ending any relationship. It may be easier initially to ask for forgiveness if you're trying to get your point across, but you end up spending a LOT of time reconciling. Proving you care from the onset of a relationship is easier than trying to prove you do after making a mistake. (And I use 'relationship' as any meeting with any person.)

[DishLady]

I fully agree.

[MuddyMole]

It's true, but only because most other people are kind and rational, and realize that there's no point being angry with someone for something they have already done and can't undo. If everybody else was just as much of an arsehole as this guy, then it would no longer hold true. And what you mistake for bravado, is really just acting like a spoiled brat.

[DishLady]

Hmm… I don't know. Sounds odd to me… Un-mindful, reckless…

[worldscolide]

I've actually used that before. On especially work related stuff. Like when I can't reach a client and I need to fix something now, or disaster will happen costing the client millions.

[DishLady]

That yes. I’ll loosely ask about something before my crew and I reshape a space for an event.

[InknKink]

I believe the correct expression is "it's better to ask for permission then forgiveness".

Wise words to live by. Provided the action doesn't land you in handcuffs.

It's implication is that if you waste time always asking permission from others, you'll miss out on many of life's opportunities. Maybe you fail. Maybe the outcome backfires. But you rarely regret the things you do, rather you end up regretting the things you didn't do.

[DishLady]

You want to go correct the guy who said it? I’d love to watch that…

Popcorn on me, everyone….

[InknKink]

Sure, you can fly him out to meet me.

[exitseven]

I say this, all the time. I always treat rules as just suggestions

[DishLady]

Doesn’t that backfire on you?

[exitseven]

No, rules a r e made to be broken

[BCRanger10]

Sometimes yes, other times no. It's not universally true.

[DishLady]

It's true that it IS easier to ask pardon... but the guy saying it... I felt he offers insincere pardons, which was one of our problems. I rather ask permission and follow the rules of engagement than to make a mess that then has to be cleaned up over months... and possibly is never fully resolved.

[MannMitAntworten]

Από ένα κουνέλι, είναι ένα απείθαρχο, αλαζονικό σχόλιο μαλάκα

[DishLady]

Ναι!!!

[MannMitAntworten]

Oh yes.