People think that firing someone from their job, is not against any legal issue. They see it as a choice, someone refused something thus they get fired for it.
I totally disagree with firing anyone for anything beyond job performance. Companies cannot just replace people that easily, my company it takes a MINIMUM of six months to get someone up to speed to be half as effective as the previous person. If we fired everyone who didn't do something outside of the scope of work, we'd never have anyone that knew how to do anything.
The sad truth is if the government forces companies to fire people, they are putting a huge burden on companies. We've already seen this in various hospital networks in the USA, they fired or furloughed people who wouldn't get the vaccine and had to shut down entire wards or hospitals due to lack of staffing. They can't just run out and hire a bunch of medical professionals such as nurses. There isn't millions of them just waiting to be hired anywhere.
Now I'm curious how many thousands of people the Australian government is going to try to collect from, forcing people into being homeless when they cannot afford to pay it. Seems like they don't really care about their people if they want them to be homeless.
No, I don't believe in government overreach or forcing people to get a vaccine they are fearful of, uncomfortable with, or simply don't understand. I am vaccinated myself but I think that is absolutely the wrong approach to take and will just push people further away from wanting to get vaccinated. Instead, I believe in spreading education and the facts behind the vaccine and allowing people to come to their own conclusions based on the information available to them.
Even if it was needed to prevent covid, (which it isn't, people with the vac still get covid) it's in the constitution that neither the government or hospitals can force you to get any medical treatment even life threatening. Just like people can choose to not get their kids vaccinated, it's wrong but it's unfortunately allowed. You can get shot and refuse medical help. It's just something that's allowed. We haven't enforced any other vaccines for viruses and diseases that are much more fatal, we shouldn't enforce this either. Just a way for the government to know they can get you to do whatever they want.
so like a false flag to change laws to do things they want?
I'm thinking of it like a test of faith, how much can they take from us until we break and succumb to their wants. Almost exactly like gun control, take away ammo/raise prices, take away basic attachments and modifications or simply take away your ability to buy guns in general if not from a shop. Plus they're giving out rewards to people for every booster, you don't get rewards for getting literally any other vaccines.
To fine someone for not allowing an experimental vaccine to be put in their body is just TOTALLY WRONG! Each individual has the right to control their own body, not the government.
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This will give @goaded a very strong erection.
The Austrian government has effectively declared war on its population. This won't end well.
"“We do not want to punish people who are not vaccinated. We want to win them over and convince them to get vaccinated,” the minister for constitutional affairs, Karoline Edtstadler, told a news conference with Health Minister Wolfgang Mueckstein on Thursday." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/9/austria-plans-to-fine-coronavirus-vaccine-holdouts-up-to-4000
Evidently...
I'd say if one third of the Austrian population are intelligent enough to not get jabbed with an experimental clotshot, even with the illegal coercive measures, then I'm not convinced you're going to make much headway on that figure...
You mean the anti-science, anti-knowledge, (mostly right-wing) faction has successfully convinced people that something that's been extensively tested, and taken by literally billions is somehow more dangerous than a virus that has been caught by hundreds of millions and killed millions.
No I do not. Like what Joeldalton said below, anyone who does support this is a piece of sh*t and who needs a good ass-kicking.
I DO support attacking and lynching politicians who try to force people to poison themselves though. These assholes in government need a serious wake-up call and I do hope the Austrian citizens start rebelling against this nonsense, with violence if need be.
I am SO SICK of sh*t being politicized these days! All this just to control people over some stupid disease that China made and no one has punished them for. Wuhan made this BS; guys like Fauci funded it, and WE THE PEOPLE are the ones being punished for it? Seriously; when do we start spilling some blood over this? I am SICK of these f*cking tyrants! I'm trying not to get mad even typing this.
Vaccines don't affect your epigenetics; autism has nothing to do with them. Even if it DID, however, you would then have even LESS of an excuse, as they couldn't give you a condition you already had. Wakefield's nonsense has long been debunked.
no it was fir a few years then everything he said was proven right in court and people were paid millions in settlements. Funny no scientist ever tells you that did you read the link?
You didn't post a link. Nor would it matter; the entire point of the PREP act is to absolve manufacturers of liability for vaccine use. Funny how no Wakefielders seem to have basic knowledge of the laws they deny.
I did post a link see it there from people awarded compensation from autism from vaccines. whats that law about?
No, I don't. Some people may have medical conditions that can put them at risk for getting the vaccine. That's not right and not fair at all. However, people who can get the vaccine should get the vaccine.
I doubt people are allowed medical exemption. So the people in hospital with heart problems will be fined if they dont get another. I dont know austrias available vaccines but some countries only have 1-2
And also not true.
"There will be exemptions for pregnant women and people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons, he added."
www.reuters.com/.../
@goaded the system won't work well and many illnesses will not count like autism. Democarasy is a mess is case you haven't noticed
I don't support it no.
Plus what about people who can't take the vaccines due to health issues or medical conditions.
That's not fair or right.
most countries only have one option for vaccines. So if you get myocarditis or whatever you must get the jab again or be fined 4000
I expect this quote will go straight into an update to the question...
"There will be exemptions for pregnant women and people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons, he added."
www.reuters.com/.../
No, and anyone who does support it is a piece of shit
Then what would we do with people who don’t pay the fine? Arrest them? What if they don’t cooperate with the arrest? There’s no need to get violent. Voluntary actions by private businesses can make it unpleasant enough to be unvaccinated.
Are you Austrian? Can you read?
"There will be exemptions for pregnant women and people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons, he added."
It should be anyone's choice. These people are just communists. Socialists. And probably broke now too.
I don't support fining people no but, I do support mandating the vaccines to be allowed into certain places or working certain jobs. So to an extent I support the vaccine mandates.
The only exception is if you're not eligible or you have a condition that makes you high risk but both of those are rare so for most people there's no excuse.
No way. It will not help only piss people off more than they already are.
Absolutely not!
This is all going to end in tears. Big time.
Are you saying a vaccine caused your autism?
thats what autism is, thats why people have been paid millions in settlements
Let me stop you right there.
Vaccines. Do. Not. Cause. Autism.
so why are people being paid millions in lawsuits? it ain't easy to win against science you know
Lol. Find me more than just one peer reviewed study showing that vaccines cause autism and then I'll agree with you.
I've been working in healthcare for almost 3 years now. Vaccines don't cause autism. Never have.
so why are people being paid millions in lawsuits? you didn't answer that. I posted a link there check it out
got any links from article LESS than 10 years old? How many millions have you been paid for having autism?
@zeitgeist057 so people aren't paid millions in settlements then?
The one study that said vaccines cause autism was disproven.
There have multiple studies since then to see if there was a link between vaccines and autism and all of those studies have confirmed that vaccines do not cause autism.
@KatanaSlice so people are awarded compensation i lawsuits on dozens of cases why? its from metals, adjuvants and the measles virus.
Whenever science doesn't like something it denies it with its own studies. they are lies
studies proving things you don't like wrong. This is lying by omission.
It's not lying by omission here are multiple studies.
www.healthline.com/.../no-link-found-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism
www.statnews.com/.../
https://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4026.pdf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24814559/
www.npr.org/.../a-large-study-provides-more-evidence-that-mmr-vaccines-dont-cause-autism
I saw the case you're referring to it was a confusion. Her vaccinations did not make her autism. She had a rare mitochondrial disorder. A disorder which she already had before being vaccinated and the vaccines aggravated it. Her disorder is extremely rare and every other vaccine lawsuit relating to autism was lost. www.cbsnews.com/.../
@KatanaSlice there are dozens of cases. all of which science denies. are you aware of the 4.5 billion in lawsuits over epilepsy and narcolepsy and cataplexy and autism and stuff. Heart problems and blood clots is new.
@asker
You were putting up a good fight until you started saying "science denies" things. Now you've officially lost. Give it a rest now.
losing a case and coming out what evidence as to why you lost it is what gambling addicts do. there have been dozens. This is only a fraction of the 200-250 million a year in the USA
First of all you were referring to autism specifically not vaccine injury in general but, I'll address vaccine injury in general since you want to talk about it.
Out of every 1 million people vaccinated only 2 file for lawsuits related to vaccine injury. Of those already extremely rare lawsuits more than 80 percent of those cases they reached settlements without a verdict even being reached. Settlements are often times not an admission of guilt but rather a quick and cost efficient way to minimize damages for both sides.
From 1988 to 2014 there were 16,038 adjudicated claims of vaccine injury. Essentially meaning that the court did reach a verdict. Only about 4,150 were compensated. So of the already low number of cases that did reach a verdict only a small minority of those cases ruled against the vaccines. What's more is even in the cases where they did compensate people many of the side effects were minor. In the few cases that did have severe side effects it was so rare that they couldn't even determine with complete certainty whether the vaccines caused injury or not even though the court ruled against the vaccines in those cases.
time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/
@KatanaSlice the government pays the bill so therefore the laws will make it as difficult as possible to sue. If vaccines are so safe why have manufacturers held governments ransom and said will will not supply you unless you indemnify us?
if the taxpayer pays the bill it will be as difficult as possible to sue. Remember that.
Because if they didn't it would affect the supply of vaccines and there would be a massive shortage. The effects of a vaccine shortage would be much worse than the extremely small chances of getting side effects after being vaccinated. Which in most cases aren't even caused by the vaccines because again there has been research which found no evidence to verify such claims. In the even rarer cases where there is evidence the people usually had extremely rare cases to the point where it is often times difficult to verify if vaccines were the actual cause.
So in essence the backlash of suing vaccine companies is far worse than the backlash of protecting vaccine companies and again, even in the rare cases where they are sued there is either no verdict or they rule in favor of the vaccine companies.
www.policymed.com/.../...-from-state-lawsuits.html
By allowing lawsuits even if only 1 or 2 cases ruled against the vaccines supplies would be severely threatened.
@KatanaSlice funny you say that. So you admit the law is to protect them?
Yes BUT that doesn’t mean that anti vax claims are true. They protect them because 1. Most lawsuits are either no contest or they rule in favor of the vaccine companies. 2. Studies have not found any link between vaccines and major illnesses the way ant vaxxers claim. The one extremely rare exception is when people have rare but serious conditions but again those cases are very rare. 3. Vaccine companies were starting to become afraid of releasing vaccines and diseases which were going away were coming back which caused far worse damage to the general population than any vaccine side effects ever did.
Also I should point out that whole vaccine companies are protected there have still been lawsuits filed. It’s not as if filing a lawsuit is impossible. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if it was.
I am vaccinated and almost everyone I know is fully vaccinated. They're all fine. Most of the population at least in first world countries is vaccinated and they're fine. Meanwhile the diseases which vaccines protect against have killed billions of people.
@KatanaSlice why are victories rare? because the taxpayer pays the bill. So you admit they need to be indemnified. Lawsuits dont exist for safe stuff.
so we have both agreed that the law is there not to be fair but to protect the companies.
No I don’t agree at all. Again as I already said the law is there because without it vaccines would no longer be distributed and again studies have shown time and time again that most of the claims of vaccines being dangerous have been proven wrong. The ONE exception is people who have serious but extremely rare health conditions which were already there and even then it’s only sometimes the vaccine. You’re literally thousands more times likely to die from the diseases that vaccines protect against than you are to die from vaccines. It doesn’t make sense that you’re afraid of vaccines when it’s been proven that side effects from vaccines are extremely rare and the diseases they protect against are much more severe. Without vaccines there would be a huge public health crisis which would devastate humanity. The protection that vaccine companies is not because a corrupt government is giving them an unfair advantage. It’s because without it people would literally be dying in droves for no reason.
@KatanaSlice so you admit it needs to be there. Why is dentistry not paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in lawsuits.
By the way 4.7 billion is the total amount in lawsuits to this date in the USA, so much for only a few lawsuits.
funny they need special laws to protect them. 4.7 billion is an awful lot
If the vaccines were as dangerous as you think they are they wouldn’t have this protection in the first place. Don’t forget human life expectancy since 1900 has increased from 47 to 78. Childhood mortality rates used to be so high that close to 50 percent of all children died before the age of 20. Now 98.8 percent of children will live to their 20th birthday. What’s more is this largely (although not entirely) thanks to vaccines. Nearly half of all children born will love the the age of 80. I should also point out that by the age of 2 years old nearly 90 percent of children already have multiple vaccinations yet almost all of them go on to live a long life. Those who die young pretty much always do so from causes unrelated to the vaccines.
Again the number of lawsuits compared to the number of people vaccinated is very small. And again studies have shown that in most cases it was not the vaccines which causes the side effects. Most of the lawsuits were either no contest or the vaccine companies won. The lawsuits don’t prove anything.
And as far as the lawsuits go research has consistently proven the claims of said lawsuits wrong.
@KatanaSlice so you admit that whenever they lose a case the come up with reasons as to why they lose. This is desperation. I suppose 4.7 billion and 150 million a year is ok. (yeah right)
we both agree that special laws are there to protect them. With the taxpayer paying the bill its impossible to sue.
pleasure talking to you.
No as I already said the research has proven the claims of said lawsuits wrong. The one exception is if you have an extremely rare condition and even then vaccines are often times not the cause.
And it’s not impossible to sue we wouldn’t be having this conversation if it was.
@KatanaSlice to sue over medical negligence is very very hard especially vaccines. They are the hardest of all.
Again there is almost no evidence of medical negligence. In most cases they were proven wrong. Negligence from vaccines is extremely rare. l and even when it does happen they were usually in poor health anyway from other conditions.
@KatanaSlice so $4,725,655,258.74 is "extremely rare" yes that is the amount the US TAXPAYER has paid out in settlements. They are not proven wrong the law is there to make it a difficult as possible to sue. Even with all laws against you they pay out that much. (yes the USA has paid out that much)
Again only 2 out of every 1 million vaccinated people demand compensation for injury. So lawsuits are extremely rare. And again compensation is not an admission of guilt sometimes it is done because it is cheaper to compensate people than go to court EVEN if you WIN. Once again evidence has shown that almost all claims of vaccines causing bodily harm have been proven wrong through research. The one exception is people who already had already had rare conditions before getting vaccinated and even then the blame can at least be partially attributed to the pre existing conditions. And even that’s exceedingly rare. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change the facts.
Science disagrees with your conspiracy theories and so do statistics.
@KatanaSlice what conspiracy I gave the figure of lawsuits thats a lot
I already explained why that doesn't mean the vaccines are dangerous. Again sometimes it's cheaper for the one being sued to just settle rather than take it to court even if you have a very high chance of winning. Even in the cases where it does go to court they usually win.
@KatanaSlice explain the 4.7 billion then? you dont win easily when the taxpayer pays the bill. does dentistry pay that much in lawsuits?
I literally answered this question multiple times already but I'll explain it you yet again. It doesn't mean they're guilty. Because even if you have a very high chance of winning a lawsuit it still is cheaper to come to a settlement because legal fees are very expensive and most cases are settled because it's cheaper. It doesn't mean the vaccine companies are guilty or at fault.
The cases where they do go to court are already a small minority and even then they usually win.
As far as dental lawsuits go every year 6 percent of dentists face a malpractice lawsuit so the odds of being sued as a dentist are higher. The chances of them winning depends on the evidence. If its weak dentists win 90 percent of the time. Moderate evidence 70 percent. Strong evidence 50 percent. The payouts only average around 81,000 per lawsuit but dental lawsuits are much more common.
www.princelawfirm.net/.../
thedentaladvocate.com/.../
@KatanaSlice do they pay out for narcolepsy, autism, cataplexy and heart problems and stuff?
Who dentists? Why would they pay for those things? They've never been sued for for autism. They're usually sued for problems such as anesthesia complications, damage to nerves, infections, failure to diagnose cancers, root canal injuries. There's no evidence of dentistry causing autism but there are a few things I must point out.
1. Dentistry and vaccines are very two different things it's like comparing apples to oranges. It doesn't make sense that they would be sued for the same things.
2. While it is possible to die from dental complications or suffer serious damage the chances of either of those happening are low and the complications are usually related to infection or improper handling of anesthesia. And I've never denied that anesthesia can be dangerous or that dentists can infect patients if they're not careful but again the chances of that happening are small. On average 3.6 million people in the US visit the dentist each year and there are only 2.6 fatalities. That is less than 1 in a million.
www.statista.com/.../
www.researchgate.net/.../309627653_Death_Related_to_Dental_Treatment_A_Systematic_Review
3. As far narcolepsy goes there was found be a correlation between the pandemrix vaccine and narcolepsy but correlation does not prove causation. They could not find any link proving that the vaccine caused narcolepsy.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25320099/
It is true that the covid vaccine is believed to cause heart problems but I must make a few points.
1. As I said before there are rare exceptions where if one has a rare condition vaccines can exacerbate the problem. This is an example of that.
2. As of December 16th 202 million Americans are fully vaccinated. Only 1,947 have reported heart problems. So we're talking about literally a 1 in 103,800 chance of developing heart problems and most of those were mild cases and they recovered on their own without any serious complications.
And again going back to my original most of these people had pre existing conditions/ factors that led to their heart problems.
3. You have a much higher chance of getting heart problems from covid itself than you do from the vaccines. In one study they found that damage done to hearts was similar to that of heart attacks in 3 out of every 4 people. Meanwhile in 60 percent of people who recovered from the virus there was ongoing heart inflammation. Another study found that in the first week of a covid diagnosis your risk of a heart attack increased 3 to 8 times. You have a much higher chance of myocarditis and pericarditis from covid than you do from getting the vaccine.
www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/.../can-covid-19-cause-a-heart-attack
www.health.harvard.edu/.../covid-19-diagnosis-raises-risk-of-heart-attack-stroke
www.unitypoint.org/coronavirus-article.aspx
4. Multiple studies have proven that vaccines do not cause autism.
@KatanaSlice 4.7 billion in lawsuits. you never explained that. All you ever said was that when someone wins they just later on prove it wrong.
you did admit companies are indemnified.
I explained it to you several times. What are you talking about? I will explain it to you one more time but this is the last time I will explain it to you. I'm not going to explain it again.
Most vaccine cases don't go to court because they settle instead. Settling doesn't mean they admitted fault. They settle because even if they win it is much cheaper to settle than going to court. It has nothing to do with a guilty admission. So it is easier to just pay an agreed sum than it is to go to court. It doesn't mean the vaccine companies admitted guilt.
Only a small minority less than 20 percent of cases go to court. Even among the cases that do go to court the vaccine companies usually win.
@KatanaSlice well of course they win the gov pays the bill and they make it as difficult as possible. They still paid out 4.5 billion thats not a small amount
No they win because science is on the side of vaccines not anti vaxxers. Anyway I'm not responding anymore so don't bother replying.
@KatanaSlice all science is is one big infomercial. Liars and conmen. I know it's on the side of the vaccines as they keep lots of employment and indemnified. We both agree this. They have special laws to protect them. So your learning. Science is not there to be fair its to stop lawsuits.
@KatanaSlice I am vaccinated and not autistic. Also hundreds of millions of others people vaccinated and not autistic. So that obviously proves getting vaccinated PREVENTS autism. only someone autistic would try to clam the opposite.
this is the science from 20 years ago. 15 years ago andrew wakefield was proven right and there ware hundreds of millions in lawsuits. there's a difference between science thats 20 years old and 15 years old. funny they deny this.
u Fines get no support from me.
No, I support executing them however
Vaccines don't cause Autism.
they paid out millions in lawsuits and no media talks about it
LINK to some info or it's all BS.
not see the link in my article. Autism is itself a vaccine injury
Asker read this.
www.webmd.com/.../do-vaccines-cause-autism
were the people who write this aware of the lawsuits? this persons opinion can undo a few hundred million in lawsuits
No. I mean, what the heck?
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