Should we stop vaccinating our children?

[madmisskelly]

Im writing an essay on the groups of people who don't believe in vaccinating their children because they believe it causes autism.

I won't state my opinion (hint, I'm going into the medical field), but I'm curious as to what others think.

[sa230e]

I don't believe in eliminating vaccines entirely. They have done a lot of good. Take the near eradication of polio, for instance. That said, I don't have a lot of trust in the pharmaceutical industry either. Just because they've done a lot of good doesn't make them sacrosanct.

Is Andy Wakefield a huckster? I don't know. I've read about the allegations, I've heard his rebuttals. I don't know what to believe but I think how the media handled it is a shame. They're not interested in public health, they're interested in sensationalism and headlines. They focus on the crazies who refuse to vaccinate their children but as far as I know neither Wakefield nor any of his contemporaries actually advocates this (to be fair I haven't read Jenny McCarthy's famous/infamous book.) From what I understand neither Wakefield nor others are saying vaccines definitely directly cause autism, period. They seem to argue that, under certain circumstances, in susceptible people, it may play a role. They don't want to eliminate vaccination, they advocate safer vaccinations (better trials, more research, a more spread out vaccination schedule). Even if he is a fraud it's unfortunate that those who have legitimate points about the safety and efficacy of vaccines now have to deal with ostracism and guilt by association.

And there are good points. Studies may not show a link between Thimerosal and autism but does anybody really think it was really a good idea to be shooting many times the FDA recommended amount of mercury directly into the blood stream of infants and children? Does it really make sense to administer multiple vaccines to children when they're sick when they could simply wait a few weeks until the child recovers and his/her immune system can handle the increased load?

[Belgie]

Wakefields "study" has been discredited completely.

I can talk you through it, if you have any problems with it.

[madmisskelly]

There are specifically large communities of people who advocate against vaccinations completely, in places like Ashland Oregon, 28% of children have only a few of their vaccinations or no vaccination at all.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

My problem with medication is, they help to make the immune system obsolete. In the future if we progress to having 99% of things cured by pill or vaccine.. the danger of a rapidly spreading swine flu mimic, is much worse. Our bodies will not be use to fighting off foreign bacteria and when diseases have evolved past our medications, we need more medications. You can see what I'm saying in things like incurable staph infections. Staph infections usually easily curable have evolved to have strands that are immune to common treatments. A bacteria that through exposure has become immune to our treatments is a serious threat to the future. Because bacteria evolves much faster than we do. Because they divide and replicate so quickly, mutations happen frequently with the "strongest surviving" until eventually these ailments become immune to all medications. And yes, eventually we will only have so many options of treatments. We have a finite amount of options, but what a strand of bacteria can adapt to is limitless.

There needs to be a healthy balance between medication and not. Curing simple, non-life-threatening problems with medicine is not a healthy practice and we need to stray away from that. But vaccines towards serious, or potentially serious, threats shouldn't be considered bad practice or be deemed the cause for autism, unless it's actually true.

[lilmsmuffet]

This is why I don't get flu shots.

BA

[Bman94]

Well actually the resistant staph bacteria are caused by people not taking their antibiotics as long as their doctor has prescribed them. Most people take them till they feel better and don't take the full prescription, thus allowing the remaining staph bacteria that wasn't killed off to become resistant to that type of antibiotic

[missannabee]

whoa you are seriously confused here. Vaccines don't make the immune system obsolete. Their exact purpose is to active the immune so your body has built a defense up to antigen so if you're exposed to the actual agent, your body is fully prepared to defend it. Resistant bacterial infections come from an overuse of antibiotics, among many other things. Seriously. fact check first.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

I said medication.. :/ Sorry, that pretty much makes your argument obsolete once you factor that in. But before you comment on the second sentence, since I'm sure you'll try to attack me again and what better to go after the first sentence if not to the second? Immunization through vaccines have shown to be less effective and long lasting as natural immunization. Also, you are more susceptible to diseases immediately following a vaccination. With that said, let's skip down to that last

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

(continued) ...sentence-- the rewards of vaccines often outweigh the risks.

[missannabee]

but this question is about vaccines.. making your argument obsolete. and immunization only increases risk if you already have a weakened immune system, and doctors will tell you not to get a vaccine if you have even just a cold. so yeah, following those guidelines, how would the benefits not out weigh the risks?

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

Just because a question is about a small topic, doesn't mean I can't branch out. o.O However narrow minded you are, it doesn't make my statement mean anything other than I explained it. I still said medication not vaccines. And vaccines make your immune system weak immediately after because your body is busy fighting the inactive virus that was injected in you. Even under proper guidelines, you are at higher risk following the first few days of your vaccine.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

So you wouldn't want to get a vaccine while H1N1 is spreading around. Also an example of when the risks outweigh the benefits is when the vaccine makes you more susceptible to something else. Like the 2008 seasonal flu shot made people 2.5x more likely to catch the H1N1 virus than people who didn't get the 2008 flu shot

[madmisskelly]

Where are you getting this information?

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

It was pretty big in the news a couple years ago.

[madmisskelly]

Im talking about the information that it lowers your immunity to other infections.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

That's very basic knowledge. Your body is busy fighting 1-3 dead viruses in you, makes it more susceptible to an attack. Your body has a finite amount of resources and can't combat everything at once. If you want to see for yourself, check the cdc.gov and its info on vaccine and side-effects. Many of the side-effects are not caused by the vaccine itself, but rather the vulnerable state your body is in (e.g. respitatory track infections, infection-related fevers, etc..)

[madmisskelly]

1) If you are going to debate with me, do not talk down to me.

2) Even the amount of people reporting illness following a vaccine is not large, true, on a grand scale, 1/6 is a decent amount of people, however, this is different from saying that EVERYONE or 5/6 people report symptoms of illness following a vaccine.

Keep in mind though too, that even seemingly harmless illnesses such as chickenpox still kills 50 people per year.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

I didn't mean to talk down to you o.O And 1/6 is enough to say it temporarily makes you susceptible to infection. If it were 100% or 5/6 then you would conclude that it IS the infection / the cause for the infection.

[madmisskelly]

Even with the risks take into account, the benefits far outweigh them. Ill take temporarily getting a cold over getting polio, pertussis, the measles, etc.

[NotJustAnotherGuy]

And I said that more often than not the benefits outweigh the risk with vaccines. o.O soo.. I don't really know how to respond to that. XD

[Anonymous]

From the research I've done I haven't found any proof that vaccination leads to autism. Just speculation and small numbers, nothing solid.

Personally I believe it's dangerous not to vaccinate kids. I've heard arguments about it spreading sickness to other kids but if your kid is vaccinated I don't see how that's possible... In any case it's not safe for your child's safety, so.. yeah..

But to each their own, I guess. If I have kids they're getting vaccinated, hands down, period, no questions asked.

[rachiee]

No, definitely not. These vaccinations have prevented many possible outbreaks. I've never heard of it leading to autism. I'm sure if you stopped these vaccinations then we'd see a lot more deaths/sickness though. Its opinion vs fact in that case.

[missannabee]

Look into the actual research done on this. There is absolutely no scientific data supporting that vaccines cause autism. And vaccines have many benefits and prevent many serious illnesses. Obviously we should be vaccinating our children.

[madmisskelly]

I never said I supported it, I was just starting the discussion.

I'm 100% for vaccination.

[Belgie]

Definitely not.

This is one of those cases where scientific ignorance endangers the lives of the children.

Normally, if a person is a complete moron, I'm okay with it. You want to believe in a god? Fine. You want to think the Earth is flat? Knock yourself out. You think men and dinosaurs lived together like in the Flintstones? I just won't vote for you.

But this is different. The vaccine/autism thing is not just harmless delusional bullsh*t. It is going to affect childrens health, and potentially kill some of them.

If a parent was feeding their kid nothing but sweets, we'd take the child into care, wouldn't we?

If a parent wasn't feeding their kid at all, we'd do the same, right?

If a parent is dumb enough to avoid vaccinating their kid because some blond dumbo told her to on the telly... I think we should take the kids into care. For their own good.

[Bman94]

Let's say vaccines have a chance of causing autism, but the chances are slim, but it is a known fact that them not getting vaccines leaves a high chance of getting deadly diseases such as measles, hep B, meningitis, HPV, just to name a few. Honestly I would give my kids the vaccines anyways. I mean if you don't, that's your choice, but not only are you going to put the child at risk, you are going to make him/her a walking petri dish of virulent and deadly diseases that can spread to other people. This is coming from a fellow person who is going into the medical field. :D Hope my answer gives you more insight.

[madmisskelly]

Lol, I don't need insight, I believe in vaccinating, but yeah, I agree there is no proof that they cause autism and the risk is so low that its more risky to not vaccinate.

[Bman94]

haha agreed, kinda got on my high horse there, sorry about that.

[kheserthorpe]

My son has autism.

The autism-vaccine paper was a fraud. Along with creating pointless worry and hurting vaccination rates, it also diverted money from more useful research.

There aren't that many people I'd sucker punch if given the opportunity, bu that study's author is one of them.

[madmisskelly]

I know who you're talking about, Andrew Wakefield.

[samhradh_leannan]

I've never heard that vaccination can cause autism. Both my sister and I have gotten all the recommended vaccines since birth, and neither of us is autistic. I think I will probably vaccinate my children if/ when I have them, unless something has changed my opinion by that time.

[TurbulentDan12]

While I'll admit I'm not 100% informed on the subject, this "causing autism" claim seems absurd to me. I believe vaccinations are a great thing and we should definitely not stop vaccinating our children. Why would you want to prevent giving your children immunity to these horrible diseases? For an unproven claim? Makes no sense to me

[martyfellow]

As far as I know there's no proof of this. But there is proof that NOT vaccinating means many of them will die of various cildhood diseases.

[Belgie]

"But there is proof that NOT vaccinating means many of them will die of various cildhood diseases."

Yes there is. It's called history.

Look up the child hood mortality rates for these diseases some time.

[Longshot]

If every child who got vaccinated ended up with autism, how many children in the world would be autistic? A billion?

[aMuse]

No. I'm sure you've taken microbiology and understand why. =P

[Anonymous]

If that is the only reason then no that study that connected Autism with vaccines was flawed the author actually came out and said much of it was made up.

[palek]

Talk about tossin out the baby with the bathwater.