God of the Christian faith is a tyrannical dictator!

I asked a question a few hours ago to get opposing views in attempt to have a discussion, but noone denounced the claim. I am writing this to see what y'all think, and to get y'all to think in another way than you normally do. I am not judging any person for their faiths, I am merely questioning those beliefs... So with that being said, let me begin with my thoughts. (in addition, I do not mean to single out the christian god here, but that is the religion I know most about)

God is a tyrannical dictator. When hearing this many react with shock. How could god be a tyrant or a dictator? I think this is a result of people not thinking objectively about what the bible claims god to be, or what religion tends to portray him as. Many people think that god and jesus are love incarnate, but are they? That is what I will be explicating/ denouncing in this. There are two things that make me believe this, the first being the idea of a being with absolute power that does not allow for free will, and the second being that this god can (and does) punish absolutely for thought crime.

Firstly, the free will issue. When I tend to broach this subject with theists they say that their god does allow for free will. I have two problems with this, the first being more of an emotional argument and the second (more important) being a logical argument. The first problem I have with the idea of free will is that theists tend to act as though god offers us absolution for our sins (which I will ignore for now, maybe mention later) at no cost to us! We are free to accept or reject the absolition given to us by the torture and gruesome murder of jesus. This is simply not true though, what does the bible say happens if one rejects this claim, this absolution? The bible says you will be tortured for an eternity in hell. That does not sound very free to me. If my father were to say, "You have free will, choose to do what I say or I will burn you alive." I would not feel very free to make that decision. However, emotional arguments do very little for me, because of this the logical argument is more important to me. The bible says that god knows the future, this absolute knowledge of the future by definition refuses us the possibility for free choice. If the future is written in stone (as it must be if god KNOWS it), then we are not free to choose a path that is contrary to that future without god losing his omniscience.

Secondly, god is accountable to no one. His word is law, and if we disobey we are severely punished in this life and the next. These crimes are not even as kind as human law. In our laws you have to commit an act to be punished, but in the bible you do not have to commit a crime to be punished, you merely need to think of it. This is totalitarianism defined! "We know what you are thinking, and we can punish you for it!" If this is not a despotic tyrant I have no idea what could possibly be considered as such.

Those are my thoughts! If you made it this far I appreciate you giving me your time! I look forward to you presenting your thoughts and rebuttals if you have some. Thanks in advance!

God of the Christian faith is a tyrannical dictator.


Most Helpful Girl

  • Well I'm a 'Christian'... let me see if I can give a clear window to my view on what you wrote. From growing up in an extreme Christian environment and seeing the extreme psychological effect it has on believers, I can say that you are right.

    Though, (and this is nothing new).. religion is and always has been a form of control over the masses. I stress on 'religion' and not the actual belief in God itself. God can exist.. and the interpretation of God can be opened to spiritual seekers as much as it can be opened to critics and fanatics. If I am a dictator, I'd probably preach the idea that God holds my ideologies as well, after all, what's a better control than fear? This is why I cannot truly be critical of any doctrine written by mankind. After all, I just need a gentle reminder of :1. The ones who founded this religion 2. Those who sought to spread it 3. All of their agendas. I don't even need to analyze the bible to know that it is a form of control. The reason why so many religious people cannot see this clearly is because of years and years of sadistic, psychological manipulation to ensure that they were kept in a submissive and inferior position.. furthermore, it would take years and years to undo.

    So.. yes and no. I agree that the God displayed in the bible does seem like a tyrannical dictator but logic says that it simply mirrors those who founded the religion. I still believe in God and yes it is sometimes hard to break free from the 'fear' of condemnation I feel on a day to day basis. That's emotional sadism for ya.

    • Appreciate the answer. But isn't the god of the christian faith formed from the bible? Or do you believe yourself to be more of a deist? I'm just a little lost XP

Most Helpful Guy

  • Here's my thoughts, as a Christian. No need for argument, but feel free to talk it out.
    To your first point: We may accept this absolution, but it DOES cost us. We must turn away from the misdeeds we were doing before we can get this absolution. Our free will is truly free, even if there is a punishment. Your argument it that God says "Accept this or burn" and because of that "or burn" you believe it is no longer free will? The police say "Do not rob or you will be jailed" so there is a clear punishment. You still have the free will to choose wether or not you steal, even if you are punished. Just because you are punished for choosing one thing over the other doesn't mean you aren't free to choose.
    As for your logical argument (I get where you're coming from with logic/emotion) you say "if God knows everything that's going to happen than we aren't free." God knows all possibilities and outcomes. He knows what your options are but He is not making those chooses for you.
    As for punishmentnof thoughts it's because thoughts have power. Thoughts are what drive us as human beings. If we don't have clean thoughts than it doesn't matter what good we do, because at the core we are bad. Like the "faith and works" verse. Your faith is worthless if you do no works to back them up. Your works are worthless if you have no faith to back it up. If you have thoughts against Him or His wishes that means you aren't fully committed. This may seem unfair, but it all comes down to what I said before. Thoughts have power.
    I hope this helped you see it from a Christians view, and this is not the view of all Christians, just mine. I hope to be civil and try to help understandings between theists and atheists. Just because we don't believe the same thing doesn't mean we have to hate on each other.

    • I appreciate your answer! You appear to be in the spirit of intelligent conversation, and were not being an ass! So thank you lol. As I said, the emotional argument does not mean much to me, I simply point it out to some christians I know who say things like it is completely up to us to choose (as though there is no punishment for the wrong choice). I agree, logically that argument does not hold water, a teacher who gives you a multiple choice question in which only one is correct is not affecting your free will.
      However the next argument I still think is valid. Ignoring the fact that the bible if not expressly, at least implies that the future is fixed. The way that you appear to portray the future in your writing is unfixed. If god simply know the choices but not the answers then is he omniscient? (good question that I'd like for you to expound upon). But leaving all those aside, there was a study that showed that we make a decision, approx 4 seconds before we think about it. --

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    • message me! I love talking theology.
      Thanks again for the convo, and looking forward to seeing/ hearing more from you on this site!

    • Same to you! I'm glad we could have this conversation and I thank you for the compliments. You really got me thinking and made some really good points. I respect your beliefs and I'm glad this didn't turn into any sort of hate war. I look forward to seeing more of your work on this sight!

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What Girls Said 10

  • Good take. I feel the same way about "God".

    the bible is just a book some dudes started writing some 2000 Years ago and kept adding on to it. Women and wifes were mans property, as well as having a slave was perfectly fine. So excuse me dear christians if i cannot get on board with this book.
    For some things it is an OK moral compass, but so would the teachings of Buddha be. Even better than any theist religion, Buddhism does not tell you how to live your life. There is no ommnipresent God who is going to punish you and have you rotting in hell for all eternity if you screw up. Of course there are many variations to practicing Buddhism, but the main core of it is pretty simple.
    Too many wars have been fought and are still being fought because of some God or some book or irrational believes in fairy tales. How can anyone say God is a loving God... when all over the world innocent children and people are dying for different reasons. What's the answer to difficult questions? Always the same: God works in mysterious ways.
    Nahhhh please, I'm sure you can do better than this wishi washi works for everythign answer? At least I hope so.

    And another thing. a virgin getting pregnant and giving birth? come on, that must be THE best infidelity cover up, like in the history of ever.

    • I appreciate your answer! I have always been considered why women would like christianity, for example the New Testament even says that it is a SHAME for women to speak in the church, and that the only purpose of women is to be child bearers... sickening

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    • ah ok, yes I see what you mean. The thing is that it is pretty hipocritical to dismiss this clear "instruction" for daily life because it is "wrong" and outdated, but on the other hand to still hang on to the idea that premarital sex and homosexuality are an abomination. Seems to me that certain things are purposely ignored, while others are highlited as it seems fit.

    • very much so

  • -Hell is not a place, where people are burning in fires. There won't be any literal torture. Hell is a situation, a state if being. It means being away from God and not communicating with him for eternity. Not being near God is the torture, which will make people miserable, in agony, not being able to find peace. That's because they won't be near him, not because they will be actually tortured.
    -It's a choice, because people are free to choose if they want to be Christians or not. If they choose to be away from God when they are alive, why would they demand to be near him when they die?

    -About your logical argument, you said 'how can we have a free will if God knows everything?' Because even though God knows everything doesn't intervene to change our decisions.
    Eg someone wants to commit a murder, but even though this is bad, God won't stop him from commiting the murder.

    -God doesn't punish anyone. It's people who make bad decisions and then have to deal with the consequences of their actions. God forgives everything if people are truly sorry for what they did.

    • Hell in the Bible is not described as such, Jesus himself calls it "the lake of fire."
      But hey, I'll be kind and give you your version, god excommunicating his children. If your father were to withdraw from you, watch you being tormented (let's call it psychologically not physically) you would think that father was awful would you not? Why is it better when he does it for an eternity? Not all people are free to choose that. Many places in the world still haven't heard of it, millions of children die every year that never even heard the name.
      I covered how the future being fixed (can't be changed) means that we aren't truly free to make any choice.
      The part though that got me with what you said was he does not intervene... Remember pharaoh? What about miracles? Either god does or he does not intervene. You can't say every time something good happens it's god and all bad things are because of us.

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    • Hell is not a literal place of burning fire etc. Also purgatory has nothing to do with a place of burning fire too. i don't know why u brought that on the table too. u have just lost some points with me after that

      @ladsin ahahha really i laughed when u tried to lecture Christianity to me. really, it's like an outsider who doesn't play basketball trying to teach me what's the correct way to shoot the ball for a NBA player. you know nothing about the current view of the Church on Hell. really. Also that Jesus's passage you brought on has nothing to do specifically with the nature of hell. i'm not feeling like to teach theology now, so just search at any catholic website what is hell and stop being stupid

    • @KnightCross no it would be like you telling women what to do with their bodies πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

  • I agree. So, I'm not really adding much for you to comeback to, but I totally agree. To me, if a god or gods are real they are terrible. They have no morals because they have the power to create a universe but not to save dying children or set the world straight.

    And yes, the god of the old testament is vain and evil. When I starting reading the old testament I was floored with how cruel this god was. I was also appalled at the morals people were supposed to have. So, I couldn't be a Christian because 1) I think the Christian god is a terrible god and 2) I don't agree with the moral teaching of Christianity

    • You state the god of the Old Testament... do you have a problem with the New Testament god?

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    • Haha ok, speaking from personal experience most of my christian friends do not read the bible, they simply listen to sermons XP is that better?

    • Trust me I know where you're coming from. One of my friends at said college denounced certain types of love as wrong and deserving of punishment. So I told her that her mother should be judged for getting a divorce because Jesus said so, and not only had she never heard of that she then said "Why would Jesus want my mom to stay in a bad marriage?" Besides not reading the bible, but also only using empathy for people they've not been taught to judge. And I'm trying to not generalize people as much as possible to anyone else reading this :P

  • All your arguments show that you have no idea of Christian religion and Jesus. And first of all I would like to point out the fact that there is a major difference between catholicism and orthodoxy. I'm guessing you're referring to Christian Catholic religion?

    • Total number killed by God in the Bible
      - Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364
      - With estimates: 25 million
      - See more at: dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.be/.../...-bible.html

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    • Christians of all denominations use a nearly similar buybull.
      Christians of about all dominations persecuted, killed.

    • aleera i think in this point @jacquesvol has a point Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy Catholicism has several points in common except filioque, in the theological point of view. of course, u could include that not acknowledging the bishop of Rome as the primary bishop could be a theological difference, but this is more of an ecclesiastical hierarchy difference

  • There are sure some stupid things , the Jews did to live 'properly' in those days. πŸ˜… I feel sorry for the people brainwashed by their restrictive priests. The priests need to be sodomised for payback since they raped the kids in secret.

  • I'm a christian. You can think whatever you want. God still loves you.

    • But he's going to send me to hell when I die?

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    • What kind of loving God would send you to hell simply for the fact that you don't believe and love him? Nevermind the good or bad deeds you've done just for that ONE fact? Your God is a fucking monster and I'll gladly go to hell then ever spend a single minute in "heaven" with Yahweh.

    • Ok. Your point of view is irrelevant to the subject considering this is an A and B conversation that has ended.

  • It is okay to have different views
    It is not okay to take your views and shove them down others throats

    • Are you saying this to me, or to theistic parents who have for thousands of years been indoctrinating their children into their religious ideals? I'm confused...

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    • But I don't tell you those pieces of evidences because I respect others relgions

    • Haha I'm not trying to convert you... You're acting hysterical. I'd enjoy seeing those names, but the difference is that there is nothing in atheism that condones those actions, in the bible there are such quotes. In addition, it seems strange because theists make up most of the prison population, sexual assaults, abortions, etc (in america at least). I'm not positing that as proof of any sort, just saying that it would surprise me if you could name them off the top of your head.

  • I agree. A god like this should not be worshipped, but I think it goes for all the gods.

  • This isn't a new way to look at Faith at all.

  • Well, from what I gather from God's word, He isn't giving us a choice. What he tells us is for our own good. When He truly sets us free, He sets us free from the DESIRE to rdo wrong. If you should sin, or think of sinning, that's what Jesus died for.
    Even if God were a tyrant, who could blame him? If you baked a cake, isn't it yours to do as you pleased with it? What if someone came and spat on it? Wouldn't you throw it away?
    Hell was made for the devil and his angels. If we get contaminated by him, what can God do with us if we don't come to Him to get cleaned up?
    If someone came and spat on my cake, I would furious with that person. But I would also have to throw my once delectably, desirable cake away. If I can't save it.
    Again, that's what Jesus died for. And God was pleased with his death, because as easy as it is to make US sin in our hearts, Jesus obeyed God and didn't sin, no matter what happened to him. Christ reconciled us all to God.
    With all the evil in the world, if God were such a bully, we all would have been dead by now. That's what any ruler would do. Kill the treasonous ones. It's not like all of us are really paying attention to him like we're supposed to. He's our Creator, and many of us are so proud we aren't even sure He exists.
    But look at us. You can't even see us from space. It's not like any of us are THAT important.
    But we are important to God. That's why we're here.

    • I appreciate your response, and I will try to remain on the topic at hand (not getting into cosmology), but I must wholeheartedly disagree with your cake analogy. The bible states that he is our "abba abba" daddy daddy. A better example would be our child. If your child disobeys you do you punish them for an eternity? Do you not at some point forgive them? I would never kill my child, especially not for something so trivial as what they think. Perhaps you feel differently? God in fact kills, or allows to be killed something like 17 children a minute (if I remember correctly). Just imagine the pain for their parents and loved ones, but in the christian ideology this is not the only punishment! Those children who may have prayed or believed in a different god get sent to a lake of fire for eternity. Is that not what we define as tyranny? Note to that the argument here was that god was a tyrant, not whether or not he was right to do so.

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    • I love this woman!!! With her words it sounds like she's a true woman of God!!! I have done many wrong things over the years! Yes, we love all of the worldly actions that people do today! Turn to Jesus, and accept Him as your Savoor because you will never be here again! Yes, we are sinners and we deserve to be thrown into Hell because we violate God's standards! They are so high that He considers hatred to be murder and lust to be adultery. Doing good things and not sinning doesn't make you right with God! We've broken His commandments and one day we'll have to answer to Him for that! That's why He sent Jesus to die for us so we can have eternal life in Heaven with him!

    • We're under a new covenant? So when Jesus says that not one letter of the law is to be changed is he lying? Or is he just wrong?

What Guys Said 16

  • 1|2
  • The address the issue of God's omniscience and free will:

    Imagine if you will that "space and time" are confined to a two-dimensional plane and that you're a third dimensional being "observing" it. You wouldn't perceive time or space in the same way that the people confined to that plane would, to you, there would be no distinction between past, present or future. Everything would be occurring simultaneously, so we could observe the results without having to influence them.

    I'm also going to use this visual aid to address the issue of "thought crime":

    If you were looking at these two-dimensional people, you'd quite literally be able to see inside of them; the things that are in their heads and the things that are outside of them would all simply be things that you observed, there would be no real distinction, because the "lines" would be meaningless to you. You'd be able to see possibilities that seemingly harmless "thoughts" could lead to and no outcome would seem any more or less "real" to you; there would be no "final" outcome, just myriad possibilities.

    Now imagine that the two-dimensional plane is in fact our universe and that you're God observing it from a higher dimension.

    What that means to me is that we're either all damned, or that we all reach salvation.

    • Appreciate the answer, but for an omniscient god not being able to differentiate, or at the very least not differentiating between real actions and thoughts is pretty shortsighted.
      Too when I mentioned thought crime my biggest thought is disbelief

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    • mk well thanks for the answer!

    • why don't ur answer has any thumbs up? that explanation was masterpiece!

      "If there's a different timeline for every single possibility and none are more "real" than any other to someone that exists outside of space and time, then there's a timeline where you'd have accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior.(...) Given the right circumstances, we'd all do "bad" things. " >> that really blows my mind. that made me thing of lots of things and has a lot of consequences. where did learn about that view?

  • "The first problem I have with the idea of free will is that theists tend to act as though god offers us absolution for our sins (which I will ignore for now, maybe mention later) at no cost to us!" , was never the case. Still isn't the case in Christian Doctrine.

    "The bible says that god knows the future, this absolute knowledge of the future by definition refuses us the possibility for free choice." Apologists answered for this centuries ago. The easiest way to put it is "God knows all futures and possibilities (omniscience) and rarely, if ever, intervenes to shift these particular circumstances through direct control of a humans actions."

    "His word is law, and if we disobey we are severely punished in this life and the next.", contradictory; you claim there's instant absolution for everything but then make the error of stating that disobedience (read as: sin) is irreversible alongside the claim that punishment in this life occurs (citation?) and that punishment in the next life occurs as well (which is unsubstantiated).

    The metaphorical hell is actually just a soul dump. Can't go to heaven? Gotta go somewhere. The Lake of Fire where Lucifer sleeps is that way because Lucifer lurks there. It's not really a designed or designated place per se nor is that ever substantiated as such. This is extremely important when reading the Torah noting that no one (prior to Jesus' death) sans two people (Elijah and... I forget the other who ascended atm) were allowed into heaven. Everyone else went to the soul dump.

    It's far more complex than you make it sound. You need to try again.

    • I don't need to try again, I was bout to upvote in thanks, but then you had to throw in that last comment like a smartass..
      God does intervene with free will in the bible, never in the bible is god's omniscience explained in such a way lol XP If there are only two options, belief in jesus and non belief in jesus I know that too, according to that I must be omniscient in that respect as well. No, the Bible portrays god as knowing the future, and that future is set in stone, the book of life is one such example. Who says you have to go somewhere? Why can't you just die? That is a presumption. No. They went to adam's bosom, hell is a different place. The construct of hell as a place of eternal punishment did not exist until Jesus. Jesus describes it as a place of eternal torment, of eternal punishment. And you do not have to even commit a sin, or even a thought crime to go here! You are born in sin because of two nonexistent forbears gaining knowledge.

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  • Obviously he is if you read the Bible with an open mind but this is impossible for a majority of Christians, they'll ALWAYS try to interpret it in a way where he seems moral and just in his actions.

    How ANYONE can agree that Sodom and Gomorrah (I'm sorry if I spelt this wrong I haven't read this in a while) and Noah's Flood are morally right (Genocide of babies, disabled, etc) is beyond me, with that logic Hitler I guess was morally right in what he did but then again he was a Roman Catholic.

  • Good take. I have nothing to add, but good take nonetheless.

  • Awww ladsin, why ya gotta start fights?

    • I enjoy discussion, you've got to know that by now. I hope that I'll never come across as a bigot, but in order to make a point that can be argued, or discussed you tend to need to use strong language.

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    • Yeah, here's one. People get SUPER complex in these arguments with citations and stuff. It's basically an interactive online lecture.

      Here's a random thread so you can see:

      It's called Philosophy Beta/Stack Exchange:

    • I'll definitley check it out! Thanks

  • why do these fools only pick on the christian god... There are way more disturbing religions and cults.

    • Are you calling me a fool? That's a good way to start a conversation... and if you read my post you would know good and well why I picked the Christian god. Which religion do you think is worse? Most cults I've seen are also based on Christianity...

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    • i don't give a shiit about Christianity. This is why I can't talk to your kind. You are too quick to assume.

    • "Christianity says love everyone." I remembered this... we hadn't talked in over 30 days. this is why I assumed. You've already shown that you are ignorant so I have no qualms with you not talking to me

  • Yawn, I used to care about this when I was a dumb teenager too.

    • I'm not a teenager, nor am I dumb.

    • I studied philosophy and science too. This point of view is fifteen centuries old now. come up with something more original,

    • The point of view that the bible is infallible and the word of god? No it's not. It's very alive and well in many parts of the world. My parents and the church of 7000 that they attend is one such example.

  • @OP, ''God of the Christian faith is a tyrannical dictator!''.. Meh.. my gods r douche too so i can't complain... #Odinist4Lyfe

    But srsly tho.. as an agnostic atheist I can't complain. Mother nature, Darwinism, natural selection.. they're all cruel realities that r pretty douche-like as well, tbh... :/

    Get used to it n' move the fuk on, bro

    • Mother nature is not actually a mother, nor does it claim to be one. Darwinism-natural selection/ survival of the fittest is pretty cruel, but there is noone claiming that there is a loving purpose behind it... Do you really not see there to be a difference to life being cruel, and a specific deity being cruel/ making life cruel?

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    • ''There can be but little liberty on earth while men worship a tyrant in heaven.'' - Robert Green Ingersoll

      Is a cute saying but you also forgot to add that:

      ''There can be little liberty in a world that dictates what you should & shouldn't worship through the guise of 'morality''' - HorseHead Sage

      BUUUT like I said before.. who cares.

    • I'm not dictating what people do or don't believe. Simply saying people should think about what they believe.

  • https://www. youtube. com /watch? v=_lIm05YY00w

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    • 'a misunderstanding on both our parts

    • So what then did you mean by law of attraction? I tried typing it in and it just pulled up some new age emotional thing...

  • ok tell me exactly what god did wrong and ill do my best to explain it

    • Umm well this question was about the actual ideas purported, but I mean specifically I'd guess some things I have problems with are condoning/ mandating slavery, condoning rape, condoning/ mandating sexism, condoning genocide, homophobia etc.

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    • Neither of those are canonical so I haven't read them X ( Don't know what they say.

    • read them its great history

  • We should just burn all of the heretics. At this point what are we holding out for?

  • Exactly. Hell, heaven? If I'm evil then I'm going to hell for punisment? But about the free will? So let's take a look at from God view.

    God created us with free will yes? Like he created the Satan. Anyway. if I am given free will then don’t I have the right to question God? What good is free will if I must blindly surrender my free will and live in doubt and contrary to my true beliefs and desires? The Bible says man has free will to accept God or to reject God. But if you reject God, you will burn forever in the Lake of Fire spoken of repeatedly in the book of Revelation in the New Testament. It dosen't matter if you're good person or bad person you'll burn in hell because you reject God! Fuck that!

    And here is the another issue If the Bible is so perfect and true, why then are there 20,000 different groups of Christians with each group interpreting the Bible differently? Which one true? Bah, another shit! So bible is inaccurate too.

    And Christians? They're worse like their religion. They pray on Sunday and steal all week. World is evil, like bible say and God going to destroy us because we're evil? He needs to destroy himself first because he created us with this nature! This is all his fault! Not us! And he going to murder million of people in hell, because they rejected him? Who is the evil here? Are you going to kill people because they don't like you? That's completely dictatorship!

    All Religions False and brain washing, it's enslaving the peoples!

  • No, god is good. He's all loving.

    • but he sends the vast majority of his children to hell for an eternity because they don't believe in him... what kind of lover, or father is that?

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    • I'm saying that you as a human being can be lied too...
      Nothing about your faith even.

    • Whatev you say : )

  • Each year the interpretation becomes more peaceful or more violent and vengeful depending on if it is a fanatic or a justifier of any holy book. The idea that a God is so concerned over what we do with our genitals and needs prayer to feel better is ridiculous and sadly it will be another 500 years or maybe 1,000 before we rid ourselves of religion.