Is "God is good" a tautology?

[Anonymous]

Pretty straightforward... Do you think God's actions/decisions are good simply because they are God's actions/decisions, or does it happen to be the case that the actions/decisions God makes are good?

Yes, it's a tautology

No, it's not tautological.

It's not even true. (But God exists)

It's not true. (God isn't real)

Other / See answers / I'm confused

Updates

+1 y

If you don't consider it to be tautological do you think it's true?

[AllAboutTheX]

God isn't real. The concept is no different than Santa (and Krampus for the devil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus )

It is taught to children as a way of scaring them into being good.
Adults grow out of the Santa idea, why is it so hard for them to grow out of the supernatural deity idea.

The idea that a supernatural being is controlling every aspect of every thing in the known universe from the beginning of time until the end of time, is a larger version of saying that Santa can deliver all presents to all houses in the known world in a couple hours. It's a childish idea and the idea that grown ups believe in this concept is proof that common sense is not always common.

[Asker]

The funny thing is they keep the more ridiculous idea...

[Mesonfielde]

MHO right there

[Asker]

@Mesonfielde Perhaps

[Mesonfielde]

Definitely :P

[AllAboutTheX]

If you wanted to talk about "gods" decisions being good just because they are "gods", it would totally contradict itself because there are so many of "God's" decisions which would be horrible decisions therefore completely throwing out the idea that "God" is infallible.
For Example: rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_mistakes_made_by_God

[Asker]

Some people might consider an action to be good because God did it, regardless of what it was.

Basically I was asking if goodness is independent of God. Are things good because God wants them to be good, or does God want those things because they are good. (This is all assuming "God is good" is true - something I don't claim to be the case.)

[AllAboutTheX]

Well there are many reasons to show how NOT good "God" is. Almost to many to list.

But regardless of all that, Goodness is independent of "God" because to have it be dependent on a god you would need to 1st know which one of the thousands of different gods to make it dependent on.
Then even if you ignore that variable, all actions the god made can not possibly be good when they contradict what he teaches is right and wrong. For example "Thou shalt not kill"... * unless your are me (god) and I can kill 2,476,633 but that "evil" devil killed 10 whole people... he is evil. Wooooo. It's always a contradiction full of Hypocritical actions.

[Asker]

I'm an atheist and I've always considered the notion of good to be independent of God, I was just trying to gauge what others thought.

[AllAboutTheX]

I fully understand that. When a religious person does good under the fear of perpetual suffering, are they really doing it because they are good or are they doing it because they are afraid.
When an atheist is good, for example when Hitchens/Dawkins raised $2.4 million for disaster victims, they were doing it because they were good, not because they feared any false punishment.
But the missionaries went down "to help" but their real mission was to convert people to their religion. They use the disaster to push their beliefs on to other. This is not true good. This is wrong.

Religion is evil wrapped up in the falsity of "good intentions".

[Asker]

"When a religious person does good under the fear of perpetual suffering, are they really doing it because they are good or are they doing it because they are afraid."

This is something I've thought about a bit. Can a religious person actually act altruistically, or is everything they do out of fear and self interest.

Those missionaries aren't even doing good for selfish reasons, rather than making a useful contribution to society they're putting their effort into getting themselves into heaven - which is quite selfish given what they believe.

[AllAboutTheX]

Exactly. It's like when your parents would make you say sorry to your sibling. You didn't want to, and you never meant it, but you did it because you didn't want to be punished.

[NateInAk]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but since you both seem to be atheists or at least agnostic, good deeds don't get you into heaven. That's a mistake a lot of people make, only faith in Christ gets you in to heaven. Of course, then the question is, why should I do anything? I believe in Christ, I've got it made. Perhaps they are simply relatively good people. Perhaps the issues they are working on are important. Perhaps they simply want to spread Christianity because deep down they don't want you to go to hell. You have to ask yourself, is anything I can do in my life worth everlasting happiness in heaven? No, that's why it is called the GIFT of grace.
Sorry for invading your thread.

[AllAboutTheX]

Well doing something so you can live in a fictional world for the rest of existence, is still doing something for reasons other than being a truly good person. Religious people always have an ulterior motive for doing good deeds. Those who know that there is no reason to do good deeds except for the simple fact that they are good, we are not doing them because of any other reason. They don't do them because of any merit or prize. It is simply because it is a good thing to do.

The fact that people waste the one life they have chasing a fictional deity, a fictional after world, and fictional rewards of some kind or another, is horrible. Why are they indoctrinating children to waste the one life they are given with the false belief of something afterward. This is the ONE chance, you can't waste it waiting for something more. This is why Science advances and Religion does not... Scientist know they have one brief moment to make change and they use every moment of it.

[523206720]

I don't know what the term tautology means and I usually have a good vocabulary but I don't read too many books on philosophy which is why I voted to see answers / results. I believe God is good - very good - extremely good - but his goodness can only be experienced by those who choose to be good themselves so somebody who is not good will not be able to taste, see or feel how good God is to him and to those around him. I know from personal experience - when I was trying HARD to be a good person I could feel God's goodness so deeply - NOTHING COMPARES TO IT!!!

[WhySoGraceful]

So if I drown millions of people would it been seen as good because god did it?

[Asker]

Yes that's what I'm asking. If you believe "God is good" is true, is that because God just happens to do good things, or are the things God does good just because God does them?

I'm an atheist myself, but I have encountered some religious people who agree that anything would be good if God decided it is good.

[WhySoGraceful]

I am atheist too and to be honest I'm not sure. I don't believe any of them are right.

[Anonymous]

It is definitely true that God's actions are for the best.

You also have to keep in mind that the devil exists as well, and everything he does is for the purpose of ruining your life.

[Asker]

But does it happen to be that what God does is good, or are God's actions good simply because they are God's actions? Could God do anything and it hence be considered good simply because God did it?

[Mesonfielde]

Nothin' like genocide! And rape. I mean, Mary didn't exactly choose to be impregnated, did she?

[Asker]

@Mesonfielde Indeed, many people seem to overlook that she had no choice in the matter.

[Opinion Owner]

But it also says that in the Bible that she was glad for what God did because she knew that it was her will. And genocide and rape was man's idea, not God's.

[Anonymous]

Of course. God's kind hands have demonstrated that rape and murder is lovely.

[Asker]

Fairly sure you're not serious...

[NateInAk]

Yeah? How'd they do that?

[Asker]

@NateInAk Read the bible

[Opinion Owner]

It's fun for the whole family!

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

God is good and perfect. That is the absolute truth, while what our limited brains can understand is only the relative truth. So, no argument there - God is ALWAYS right.

[Asker]

I'm not sure if you understood the question. Would anything be good in your opinion if God said that it was good?

[Mesonfielde]

Exactly. There is no other way to rationalize how he murdered every human being on the planet except for Noah and made him recreate humanity through incest. ;)

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

No, I think I understood the question correctly. Your comment is saying something else... please clarify..

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

@Asker..

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

@Mesonfielde Its our obsession with ourselves that makes us put such a big premium on earthly life and death. God's scheme of things are infinitely more grand than that.

[Asker]

I asked if "god is good" is tautological, so what I mean is does God just happen to be good, or do you define something as good because it was one of God's actions or desires.

Could God do something and it not be good? (I'm not saying he would necessarily.)

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

Its entities with body and mind, like humans, who have wants and desires, and do actions. God doesn't need to "do" anything. He simply IS everything. We should stop comparing Him with us. That's the biggest mistake people do, hence keep going around in circles in their religious arguments.

[Asker]

Do I need to clarify my question or do you know what I mean now? I'm curious what you think.

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

I totally got ur question and the clarification too! I'm just putting things in perspective. Please read my comments carefully. They are the result of my research on God and religion over the years... if u don't understand what I'm saying, then it would mean we are not on the same level and its better we respectfully end the conversation.

[Asker]

So you think it is a tautology?

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

Yes, I'm the only one who voted for option A.

[Asker]

So if God intervened and gave an infant HIV that would be good as God did it?

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

I have already answerered that. Our earthly existence is not so important in the grand scheme of things. God doesn't "do" anything. The human laws apply to human beings. Our view of morality is limited and relative. God exists in the absolute dimension. We can't think beyond 3-D. We will never understand so many things. That's why we have something called Faith. That's our only hope. :)

[itsme_goodsamaritan]

*answered

[NateInAk]

I'm not going to give an opinion, but did you ask another question about could God make 2+2=5?

[Asker]

Do you not have an opinion, or do you just not want to share yours?

I don't recall asking another such question. If you post the link to the question I can tell you if it was mine.

[Asker]

Oh, yes that was mine... I thought this was that question.

[NateInAk]

I'm not exactly clear on what the hell a tautology is, and that embarrasses me. Why do you stay anonymous? These are interesting questions.

[Asker]

Something which is necessarily true. If you think "God is good" is true, do you think God happens to be good, or would we consider God to be good because he is God, regardless of how he behaved.

[NateInAk]

I think God happens to be good. I have trouble getting over a lot of stuff in the Old Testament, first born sons of Egypt and all that, but we have to look at the bigger picture. Yes God cares for each of us individually l, but he also recognizes sacrifices need to be made, and what is a small sacrifice to God is a huge deal to us, because our time is short and our experiences are narrow.

[Anonymous]

Which "God" do you mean? the creator?
Atheists@sktheists.

[Asker]

Take your pick...

I was trying to see what Christians think primarily.

[Opinion Owner]

The creator, i cannot judge his actions and decisions because he knows more than me.

[Asker]

That's not what the question is about. Do you think 'good' is meaningful in itself or is it entirely dependant on what God wants to be good?

[Anonymous]

Why you are obsessed with these questions!!!

[Asker]

And who am I?

[Asker]

Anyway it's not obsession it's amusement that drives me...