As a punishment, is castration unconstitutional?

[Anonymous]

Is it considered unusual or cruel?

[Betwyn]

I don't know about the constitution..

but then, that is just a legal document, easily circumvented.

Just make an amendment.

It is unusual and cruel..

I'm torn on it.. on the one hand, it's simply horrible.

on the other.. Some sex offenders, who survive prison, prolly deserve it?

Maybe, in those cases where a sex offender gets a huge sentence... it could be something they opt-in for.. as a means to qualify for early parole?

of couse.. the other side.. what is the fair female equivalent to this?

[Asker]

Good question.

[jacquesvol]

@Betwyn
That amendment already exists: the 8th.

[Betwyn]

@jacquesvol well, I find a couple of things interesting here.

First, it specifically says Federal government, so it may not apply to the states.

Second, it never actually touches on Castration, so it may be, once someone actually gets sentenced, a matter for the Supreme Court to decide.

I also found it interesting that in 2003 someone was sentenced to 50yrs in prison for stealing $150 of videotapes, and that wasn't deemed Cruel and Unusual.

[jacquesvol]

Were it concerns women, US lawmakers aren't 'feeble hearted': https://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/

www.ourbodiesourselves.org/.../

[Betwyn]

@jacquesvol but this, has nothing to do with rape, or even punishment.

This was about stopping the handicapped and insane from having children, I assume, on the grounds that they would be damaged and uncared for.

[jacquesvol]

@Betwyn in Puerto Rico it wasn't about punishment, indeed, it was about getting lower population numbers, thus lower unemployed people. On the mainland it was with a medical excuse.

[truecollors]

No the constitution was written so the people could over through a corrupt government. And no amendment could be written to allow torture.

[9mfeo]

Forget the US Constitution. The UN classifies forced castration (and other typically male-on-male sexual violence) as a war crime.

[Asker]

Not sexual violence, as a legal punishment ordered by court. There's no war

[9mfeo]

I believe they do chemical castration in some of the Nordic countries after a trial.

[neilsmart]

its cruel because men are proud of their d**ks. its the same as removing someone's air or their head from their body

[Betwyn]

Castration is the removal of the testicles.

[truecollors]

@Betwyn and oophorectomy : surgical removal of one or both ovaries; ovariectomy.

[allison368]

Total nullo (castration and penectomy) would be a reasonable punishment for rape.

[neilsmart]

@allison368 guys with a long cock should not be castrated - they are to be sucked instead

[allison368]

@neilsmart A penis is not a prize for girls. If you can't use it appropriately you deserve to loose it.

[neilsmart]

@allison368 perhaps any cock shorter than 7 inches should be castrated

[allison368]

How about: any cock over 5 inches is too big and should be amputated?

[neilsmart]

@allison368 but when a guy has a big cock it boosts his ego, makes him confident and dominant

[BlueCoyote]

Even if it's not against the US constitution, it certainly is very barbaric, unnecessarily cruel and unworthy of a developed, democratic republic. I consider it pretty much the same as countries such as Saudi Arabia stoning women to death if they cheat on their husband.
I also believe castration as a punishment is against the UN Declaration of Human Rights because it could be regarded as an act of torture (not that the US ever cared much about that...).

[allison368]

It would be a definite prevention for future rape.

[jacquesvol]

8th amendment en.wikipedia.org/.../Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

9cbcca1e6f9e03544a02-539d006b7d1ab88a7f6e8d03decc893c.r44.cf2.rackcdn.com/55C6B96B-52B5-45F2-ADE8-F92DF34A1D83.jpg

[Betwyn]

but what is actually deemed cruel and unusual?

the United States Supreme Court "set the standard that a punishment would be cruel and unusual [, if] it was too severe for the crime, [if] it was arbitrary, if it offended society's sense of justice, or if it was not more effective than a less severe penalty."

the Supreme Court commented that drawing and quartering, public dissection, burning alive, or disembowelment constituted cruel and unusual punishment.

It looks like, Castration might still be open to interpretation.

[truecollors]

@Betwyn volunteer castration is only in a few states, however, the law is very equal, "What can't be done to one criminal will not be done to another" so oophorectomy fore female rapist then. That's taking her pare away. However, permanently altering the body without permission is considered cruel on all accounts.

[ksoma]

technically, cruel punishment is OK. And so is unusual. The problem is with both, which is why it says "cruel AND unusual."
that said, permanent physical harm or damage falls more into the realm of torture than anything else. If you think someone will sexually assault others again, you need provisions to make sure they are never free from prison to do so, not permission to irreparably destroy part of a person's body.

[truecollors]

That is the best answer so far. And by best I mean it is correct.

[LovelyComputerVirus]

As a rape survivor, I wish that my attacker had been castrated.

[Josht11]

Good job victims don't have shit to do with the punishments then.

[LovelyComputerVirus]

@Josht11 I was raped. My virginity was taken from me against my will. I would have settled for having him depends a few years in jail, but since that had never happened, I want him dead. Castrated is the second best option.

[Josht11]

I'm not American and don't know shit about the constitution but it's a very immoral and cruel punishment we should be above mindless violence as a society and this is basically torture which was left behind in the middle ages.

[rsstanford]

Castrastion should be used on people who rape children I say it' would be a perfect punishment.

[truecollors]

So thousands of woman will undergo oophorectomy, that's only fare. 43% of male juveniles in, "jail" reported being sexual abused 95% of them were abused by woman.

[Anonymous]

If castration and full penectomy was mandatory for male rapists it would be a permanent prevention and prison would not be necessary. However, to be fair a proper urethra relocation would be necessary. However, would there be a comparable punishment for a female rapist?

[oddwaffle]

Counts as mutilation, similar to chopping off hands, feet, tongue and blinding by burning the eyes. Not unusual by human standards but pretty much cruel.

[Anonymous]

That actually sounds like a good punishment for rapists.

[oldanddecrepid]

I would support it... especially with respect to male sex offenders. It would have to be beyond reasonable doubt though!

[Josht11]

Ye but people still get convicted when they're innocent I don't think it's right to castrate them if someone innocent will get castrated and also this is definitely cruel and unusual punishment, furthermore I doubt it will be much of a deterrent and this is corporal punishment I couldn't stand behind a society that looked down on sex offenders while castrating them (which could lead to severe pain and problems) and acting like a superior and moral system.

[BlueCoyote]

In legal practice, there's no such thing as "beyond reasonable doubt". That is why people are never found innocent but instead they're found "not guilty". Small but important difference. There's people who've been sitting in jail for 30 years and suddenly it turns out they didn't actually commit the crime. Just like capital punishment, castration wouldn't be reversible.

[oldanddecrepid]

@BlueCoyote well if the guys semen links him to raping her or maybe a little kid and there was witnesses that saw the abduction, then I am sorry, that is beyond reasonable doubt that is a slam dunk.

The deterrent would be he would not have those sexual urges again, and it might just deter someone else trying to abduct a kid.

We place to much emphasis helping the person that commits the crime and not enough on the victim who suffers the rest of their life.

[oldanddecrepid]

The guy goes to jail and gets three square a day, works-out, reads... what justice is that?

Meanwhile the girl or the child is scarred for life and has nothing but mental issues afterwards.

[oldanddecrepid]

if there is not enough evidence, then there is not enough evidence... but we have guys that are two maybe three time offenders!

[BlueCoyote]

Actually, those are not examples of "proof beyond reasonable doubt". First of all, DNA tests do not always work. They can show wrong results or not work at all. Ask a specialist if you don't believe me. And a witness is an even worse example. People's memories are much more flawed than we want to think they are. There have been numerous cases (both in real life and in psychological studies) where witnesses ended up describing a culprit differently than he/she looked like or, even worse, choosing the wrong person out of a sample of possible suspects.

As for your last paragraph: that's a really terrible argument and I can't believe people use it to justify torturing or killing people. Of course victims deserve protection and help. Nobody questions that. But that doesn't make it okay to go around and cutting off men's testicles. A rapist has committed a crime but he's still a human being with civil and human rights.

[oldanddecrepid]

@BlueCoyote I understand where you are coming from but I still think we protect the criminals far too much, to the point it is almost sickening!

[BlueCoyote]

"What justice is that?"
First of all, I don't think you understand how tough it can be to be locked in jail. Maybe you should try it just for one day to get a feeling for it. Three meals a day is definitely not a luxury, it's just what you need to survive. There's something WAY more important that is taken away from you in prison: your freedom and your liberty. Not only are you stuck in the same, tiny room for YEARS but you have absolutely no freedom whatsoever. You can't choose when to get up, you can't choose what to eat, you can't choose who to talk to, you can't choose when to go to bed. You can't just walk out and meet a friend, you can't cuddle your cat if you feel lonely or sad. EVERYTHING you do in jail is ordered to you by the authorities. You have no freedom to structure your day in any way and on top of that, you're stuck in a tiny space, sometimes even with another person you don't like.

And secondly, jail is NOT about punishment. I understand your desire for

[BlueCoyote]

revenge but revenge should not be one of the purposes to imprison people. Prison is there for two reasons: to make society safer and to socially rehabilitate prisoners. Revenge and punishment have NEVER worked as a means to lower crime rates or rates of repeated crimes. If that was the case, the US would have one of the lowest crime and repetition rates in the world. The reality however is that the US has by far the highest crime and repetition rates in the developed world. All you do by punishing prisoners is to fuck them up more.

[Asker]

@BlueCoyote I thought maybe rapists or pedophiles deserve this kind of punishment, but you have a really good point there. We shouldn't do anything irreversible.

[Zrelthrhaiel]

I wish it would happen to you.

[Asker]

What?

[abundantlyrich]

These people can't ever be cured and they keep abusing kids and other people

[stardust101]

It's both unusual and cruel, but better to be castrated than for a child to endure whatever unusual and cruel treatment a child predator would do.

[stardust101]

I'll bet if that was an actual punishment then there would be less child predators but what do I know.

[truecollors]

just copy and past of what i told "rsstanford" So thousands of woman will undergo oophorectomy, that's only fare. 43% of male juveniles in, "jail" reported being sexual abused 95% of them were abused by woman.

[worldscolide]

It would be better to just kill the offender.. But on that same token, if you castrate male sex offenders, what do you do with female sex offenders? And dont deny it, they do exist.

[Phoenix98]

I suppose it would depend on the crime but even if it wasn't against the constitution it is one of the most barbaric things you could do to a man.

[Mac-One]

Rape is also a barbaric thing.

[douride2]

Unconstitutional or not I know of 3 I wish would have been castrated.

[zagor]

Generally they use chemical castration, which removes the sex drive without physically removing the apparatus.

But I think physical castration would be considered cruel and unusual.

[Awesome2]

Yes, amendment 8 prevents cruel and unusaul punishment or excessive bail.

[Awesome2]

A jury will decide whether the punishment is cruel or unusual.

[Geck079]

Capital punishment is constitutional, modern society should have confiscation and penectomy nullification surgery become a deturant to crimes that victimize people.

[Words_and_Wisdom]

It is indeed considered cruel and unusual punishment and is indeed unconstitutional.

[Anonymous]

psycho feminist that wants to chop all males' members detected... .

[Asker]

You ain't bringing feminism into this.

[Anonymous]

i don't think it's unconstitutional. and i also think it would be an useful way to help pedophiles to control their urges and to come away from their sexual compulsions.

[Anonymous]

Obviously it is. Anything who says it's not has some serious issues.