"I don’t care what your religious beliefs are or anything. If you have a dick, you need to shut the f--- up on this one, seriously. This is theirs, the right to choose is their unequivocal right. Not only do I believe they have the right to choose, I believe that they shouldn’t have to consult anybody, except for a physician, about how they exercise that right."
If it’s true that men don’t have a right to talk about abortion, though, something else must be true. He explains:
"Gentlemen, that is fair. And ladies, to be fair to us, I also believe that if you decide to have the baby, a man should not have to pay. That’s fair. If you can kill this motherf---er, I can at least abandon them. It’s my money, my choice. And if I’m wrong, then perhaps we’re wrong. Think that shit out for yourselves."
I agree with Dave Chappelle
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Do you agree with Dave Chappelle's stance on abortion?
What allowing abortion while eliminating child support fosters as an ethical and social matter is a culture of economic utilitarianism. The value of life being defined by fiscal convenience rather than any conception of inherent worth.
Indeed, the problem with the formulation is that it defines the problem entirely in terms of the interests of two people rather than three. In that the current law is inconsistent, and in that connection the proposed abortion/no child support arrangement has a sort of grim consistency.
The child is raw material. It's humanity is essentially negated in law by the fact of its abortion. If born, it becomes not the responsibility of the parents who gave the baby life, but rather left, as society indifferent shrugs, to take the consequences of its parent's choices. With no power to protect itself, the child's future is the convenience of its parent's economic preferences.
We shape our laws and our laws then shape us and it does not take much imagination to envision what a society that so defines life - arbitrary in its definition, mere object of convenience at its birth - would look like. Indeed, the society is part way there. The ethic that conduces to abortion on demand is the same ethic that has seen the growth in child abuse, child abandonment, child sex trafficking, child poverty - the young are the poorest demographic, the 65 and older set the wealthiest - and all the other pathologies plaguing society.
Once the definition of life became not an objective standard but an arbitrary point in time defined by the convenience of the individual with the power - but no corresponding ethical obligation - to define it, bad things were apt to follow. In that, those who argue the pro-choice case are kidding themselves when they argue that their viewpoint was more humane.
To the contrary, it is inherently de-humanizing. The ethic of pro-choice is that life has no value but only thinking makes it so. The abolition of child support would merely put the exclamation point on that anti-ethic. Men and women hold no responsibility for their actions because the life that they create is not, ipso facto a life.
The bottom line, the flaw in the abortion/child support dichotomy is that it is not an ethic at all. Rather it is the reverse of that. No obligations inhere in our actions, life has no inherent value and a baby is not something to be cherished, but is something to be tossed about according to mere economic convenience.
In that the proposal is not postulating a change in the moral presuppositions of the culture. It is, rather, the grim next step in the road down which the culture is already headed. If you like what you see in society, this is merely its logical consequence.
Maybe disagree or agree. I don't know. I don't think about these issues in terms of what is "fair" for both sexes. What I think about are unwanted pregnancies.
I suspect most people on all sides of the spectrum would agree that mitigating the sheer numbers of unwanted pregnancies each year should be the ultimate goal, however that is achieved. All this talk about abortion is kind of glossing over the fact that people who aren't ready to have children shouldn't be having at least unprotected sex in the first place.
So to me, it's ultimately about what sort of approaches are effective at dissuading people who aren't ready to have children from at least having unprotected sex and causing them to think more seriously about sleeping with someone else. Ideally, there are disincentives for both sexes as I see it, whatever they might be. Women already have quite a biological disincentive. Men might need something more.
I don't know. I only care about solutions that actually work to get unwanted and unintended pregnancies down. In the US, apparently around 45% of pregnancies are unintended, and 5% outright unwanted, and both figures are absurdly high.
To me focusing all the discussion on abortion policy is somewhat similar to focusing all discussion on how to treat type-2 diabetes when the ultimate goal should be to prevent type-2 diabetes. The bigger problem to me is not what to do with unwanted and unintended pregnancies but preventing them from occurring in the first place: people shouldn't be getting unintentionally pregnant at such alarming rates in the first place.
I agree with the practical application, with the provision that the father can only back out in the same window of time that it is still possible for the pregnant person to get an abortion. His decision is a factor in hers, so he shouldn’t be able to change it after it’s too late for her to do anything about it.
I also think that he should pay half of what the cost would be if she were to get an abortion. Regardless of what she chooses, there will be medical expenses. He was a part of making it happen, so he should have to at least pay half of the minimum. If she chooses to go through the pregnancy though, he doesn’t have to pay for the rest of it. But she can use the flat amount for pregnancy related medical expenses. Just like a woman has to pay to have an abortion, a man should pay a flat amount to back out.
Finally, and possibly most importantly, his decision should be documented, and he should have to sign away his custodial right to the child if he doesn’t wish to support it. That way the mother doesn’t need to get his permission to move with the kid or travel, and the two of them can just move on with their lives. Also, this prevents him from coming in years later and demanding to be a part of the child’s life, and putting the kid in an uncomfortable position where the court demands that they spend weekends with some man who is practically a stranger to them.
It’s not a bad thing to ask to be a part of the child’s life. But it should be done gradually, with attention to whether or not it’s a good time for the child. If the mother knows the kid best, and the father has never been a part of the kid’s life, even though he had the choice, he shouldn’t be able to suddenly put a stop to all their plans and demand that he see the kid for extended periods of time. If he backs out and she keeps the pregnancy, she shouldn’t have the looming threat of litigation and custodial battles, and should be able to have sole legal right to the child.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
But what if the man really wants to keep the child? I know people will disagree with me, but imagine yourself in this situation: You're a guy, you slept with your girlfriend but your anticonception method failed. She tells you she's pregnant, and you panic slightly at first, but eventually decide that you want the child, you've already registered them in your mind as your son/daughter and you start looking forward to their birth and life. You have prepared yourself emotionally and let yourself get excited, already starting to love your unborn child. When your girlfriend of many years comes up and says that she wants to get rid of the child. The moments you imagined with your future kid will never happen, because they'll be dead. Physical pains of pregnancy and labor will last 9 months, whilst emotional pain of losing a child you've already began loving will last a lifetime. I believe abortion should be a decision made by both the father and mother of the child, since it affects both of them greatly
I strongly disagree, more men walk out on a child compared to women having abortion. If that was really a option no man would be paying child support, they would all take that easy route. Compared to the small amount of women that acutally abort.
@Liam_Hayden because men dont have to carry the child in their bodies. This comes down to ruining a womens body and life. Where for men its just ruining their bank accounts
Were forgetting the fact that women CHOOSE these men. Don't want a guy walking out on you, learn to choose better men. Smh Women ruin their own lives, sorry not sorry.
if women cannot support their babies then perhaps they should just get abortions and don't expect the man to provide for them. i mean how irresponsible is that to bring a child into this world and expect others to pay for it. if you have the right to do whatever you want to the fetus then that's really your baby not the man's
I didn't say men are psychos wtf i said there a many men who are typically narcissist who will use their charm for their own benefit - there are also women like that too
well sucks to be women, it's your body, your opinion and your child. Your child is not entitled to a man's money unless he decides to be a father to the child.
@ThisGuyDucks a man has decided to be a father when he cummed in a women. Sperm is always fertile, men know the outcome of that. For females it's a bit different, women are only fertile a few days out of the month. It seems reasonable that a women could not know and get pregnant. Men always know there chances of getting someone pregnant.
@Prettyapathetic All the signs are there with these men. If you're looking for and are seduced by a "prince charming" well i think now we've found your problem.
@Apple1996 You're right, both genders do choose. But i can tell you from personal experience it doesn't matter who you choose if she doesn't choose you back. Lol So i re-iterate my first post " women choose these men. Don't want a guy walking out on you choose better men".
First of all your 22 how can you say " it worked out" check back with me in 10 years and we'll discuss if it worked out lol. Secondly you said he was a loser. What praytell made him a loser in your mind? In other words maybe he eas never a loser at all but your female brain just labeled him as one. And "if it would have came down to me picking a good guy it wouldn't have worked out". What goofy kind of mental gymnastics is that? Also what makes a guy a " good guy"?
@ChiTown33 it did work out, we are married and have two kids. And I only say he was a loser because he had no job or any way to provide for our child. Which obviously wasn't a big issue to me since I'm still with him.
@CLASSYMUTT well that hasn't happened yet and I'd be suprised if something like that ever does. It's more believable that abortion would be illegal then it would prevent the child support issue from ever happening
Well there's a million questions i could follow that up with. But i can kind of see why you say loser. But this is why you have to take into account someones character. And with some guys a wife and children straighten them out make rhem mature quickly. I don't know if i'd want to gamble all my chips on that particular scenario though. Either way i hope rhings continue to get better for you both and tour kids.
and a woman becomes a mother when a guy cums in her, hence no fucking abortion allowed. You don't get to cherry pick and completely fuck over men when it comes to children.
It's his money, he doesn't have to give any to you.
Seriously, shut up.
You want the right to kill a child and a man can't have a right to keep just money. Fuck off with your entitlement.
@OfDeath nah I wanted to say something ridiculous. Things should just stay the way that they currently are. Not that many women have abortion so to make a fair choice for a man would be stupid. If more women did it then definitely some type of compromise should happen that the man could back out of parenting
I pretty much agree with you. Men basically don't have a choice but they don't really need one. If a man is too poor they don't make him pay child support anyway.
Depends what you consider to be a lot by age 20 4.6% of women will have had an abortion. Think about it! That's almost 1 in 20. I think that is a lot when you consider it's murder. I mean you think gun violence is bad? Imagine if you heard on the news 1 in 20 women commit murder.
And Hitler thought he was doing the right thing to trying to exterminate an entire race. Murder doesn't stop being murder just because you to think of it as "not being murder".
Actually that's not true, out of all the men who are required to pay child support, 80% of them do. Meanwhile out of the significantly smaller margin of women who are expected to pay child support only about 30% actually do. Then you have women aborting the child, 638,169 abortions per year (meanwhile those men are paying for 18 years), about 15,000 babies given up for adoption (which can be done without the fathers consent), around 3,000 are abandoned (due to safe haven laws its legal to do so if its at a church or police or fire department). So no, that's incorrect. Further more that's a poor argument because your still stating that women should have all the options and men should have absolutely no options, that its her body her choice but his money and his body are also hers and she gets to say what he can do with it. That's just not a logically consistent argument.
@Prettyapathetic No, not really. However interestingly enough, women do this all the time. In fact their was a survey done that had over 40% of women admitting they would lie about being on birth control in order to get pregnant even if their partner didn't want the child. Also the fact that studies consistently show that women are far more manipulative and emotionally abusive then men (as well as physically abusive) on top of the fact that thanks to hermsman vs seyer women can force men to pay child support regardless of the circumstances of the pregnancy (in this case it was a 12 year old boy who was forced to pay child support to his babysitter who raped him), would suggest that women are at the very least as manipulative and psycho as men (and even more so).
@ChiTown33 Careful, your coming dangerously close to telling some one to take personal responsibility for their life decisions (that never ends well. Though I agree 100%).
@esotericstory I already said this but my husband at the time was not a good choice to be a father but I still had sex and got pregnant and he turned around. So I think their is any way of picking the right guy
Fatherhood and motherhood should be child's play. So that when children become adults they are prepared for their roles as parents. Just my idea. I know its politically incorrect and progressives are trying to separate fertility and childrearing from relationships as much as possible but in my opinion raising children should be incorporated in a fun way whilst raising your own children.
It absolutely is her fault, she chooses whom she has sex with, she chose to have sex with a man who would not support her that's no her. Also their are FAR more men who will stay and raise a child that are not (as my other comment pointed out (arguably more so then women)). So that is incorrect. You cannot say that men are the only ones responsible without also saying that women are not mentally capable of making the decision of whom they have sex with, its one or the other, either both men and women are equals and thus share equal responsibility or women are not equal to men in which case they do not have the capacity to make this decision and therefore right to do so, just like children. Which is it?
It takes two to tango. Meaning she should have birth control pills, he should have condom. If non of them options are there then no sex should have happened. So the second you did have sex then its both fault that the girl got pregnant. What happens next is up to the girl. If the man don't want the kid he don't have a saying, he is forsed to be a dad. Men should have the option to give it up just as woman should be allowed to abort. BUT only before the kid is born and with a contract. How ever this contract can be anulled if he changed his mind. But if he changed his mind then he is now legally binding to give child support. How do that sound?
So you believe that women should not be allowed to decide to have sex without some one elses permission? That women are that mentally defective that they cannot make decisions for themselves? That's not the argument that I would make but if that's what you think that's fine but how do you propose we stop women from having sex then since women keep demanding that they should have the right to make decisions but then turn around and demand that some one else has to take responsibility for those decisions?
@hellionthesagereborn men are women are not equal when parenting. Mom naturally take care of the baby more. It's natural that we do that's why the child comes out of our body. Obviously not every case is like this but most of the time yes
Just because the man did not have a condom don't mean the woman can't use birth control pills. And it takes TWO to agree to have sex with out birth control. But it don't take two to deside to keep it. Just as she have the right to keep it, the man should have the right to not be involved.
Oh, great! So we are in agreement that a woman does not have the right to choose as she is obligated to take care of the child. So why did you claim that a woman gets to have an abortion then? Also your reasoning is awful, she gets to decide because the baby comes from her body, fine but what does that have to do with forcing a man to take care of her and the baby? His money comes from his body (labor and time) so by your rational a man has no obligation to take care of her or the child any more then she does.
Women who support abortion and the whole "my body, my choice" thing should realize that this means men don't have the same amount of reproductive rights as they do. That perhaps men will have certain rights women don't while they will have certain rights men do not. In this case, is equality truly possible?
I agree with Dave Chappelle, and I'm pretty sure men can actually relinquish their parental rights as well which I imagine means they don't have to pay child support or take any sort of responsibility over their offspring. A lot of men don't know this.
Are you all fuckin' stupid? Women don't make kids by themselves! Just cuz men don't carry + deliver the kid don't mean they don't have as much of a stake in a new life. And just cuz a woman carries a child don't mean she won't be a shitty, negligent mother. Just being born with a vagina don't ensure that every woman is a shining goddess of purity + perfection. If so there wouldn't be the fucked up people in society that we have. Good women raise good kids, so how do the trash end up the way they are?
I believe it can't be the womens choice alone. That baby was also made by a sperm cell. If you just decide to abort it and the father wants it? It can also have an emotional turmoil on men too. We can't use that "my body my choice" excuse because then you want to fight biology which we can't. I think that if one of the potential parents wants to keep the child then the other one who does not want it should sign off all rights of the child and in the eyes of they law you use all parental rights.
Here is my stance on this. Personally, I would never get an abortion myself. I would rather give my kid up for adoption. However, in other cases: Women have the right to abort babies if they were raped or in case of incest. I also think that if the man wants to take care of the baby and says that he isxwilling to do so by himself without expecting her to come into the picture than I say let him if he is willing to help out throughout the pregnancy as well. It takes 2 to tango after all. In the case thst the man could care less about the baby, than the woman has fulll right on whether or not she wants to keep the baby. If its a married couple who are financially struggling they would have to communicate with each other and come to an agreement. If the couple are together she can communicate it to her partner but she makes the ultimate decision by herself.
Kids just shouldn’t be born unless both genetic parents agree. A non-invasive prenatal paternity test and abortion are both easy enough to do today. Regardless of financial responsibility, if a women has the child without the man’s consent she is still creating a situation he didn’t have equal say in that he will have to deal with for the rest of his life. Women already have the right to say no, but men don’t. It’s basically an institutionalized rape culture against men. Men are treated as property under the law.
No because many men (who do it now) get her pregnant and then abandon the child. What I think should happen is that men should be allowed to waive all parental rights to the child BEFORE conception. So if a woman is stupid enough to sleep with a man without an protection and she conceives, he doesn't have to pay or do anything with the child if she wants to keep it.
I'm told that it won't be considered in court because of the fact that the child must be cared for which is understandable. I still think it would settle this quite nicely (and the abundance of stupid men who don't do the contract would have to pay).
It would work as something they both would sign before they have sex (and for those reading, use common sense. Not RIGHT before sex. He should let her know). These are just my thoughts.
At least he's trying to be fair. If the woman can kill the thing without consulting the man, he should be able to abandon it without consulting her. Then again, it takes two to tango and, in the case of a man not wanting to be the father anymore, it creates a situation where many men would be liable to abandon their women to become single mothers, which is a further drain on the economy.
A much simpler thing to do would be to just accept the stone-hard fact that if you have sex, a baby is within the realm of possibility and regardless if you're a man or a woman, you have to be able to take that responsibility and give birth/be there for the baby. If not, don't have PIV sex, simple.
I strongly agree with that. If a man says no he doesn't want it, woman decides to keep it, that man shouldn't have to pay child support. The same as how a man may say he wants to keep the baby, and the woman can choose to go have an abortion without any input from the man. I strongly agree!
No, I don’t think it’s okay for a woman to go against her partner’s wishes and abort their unborn baby, and I don’t think it’s okay for a man to abandon his pregnant partner and refuse to care for their unborn baby that he helped create. I think that in MOST cases, i. e., when sexual intercourse resulting in pregnancy happens between two consenting adults, both participants should take full responsibility for their actions.
I think the whole point of the bit is to point out the absurdity of responsibility being one-sided In that scenario. The ideal is that both man and woman have a say in whether to abort, and both have a shared responsibility to make sure the child is not abandoned or neglected (assuming no abortion takes place ofc). The whole joke is to point out the hypocrisy of women saying "men have no say over our bodies and choices on abortion", whilst also demanding (yes, DEMANDING) that a man give her free money under pretext of "supporting the child". The double standard is totally unfair on men, coz we make up 50% of all (heterosexual) parents, and 100% financial responsibility to the child, and yet we have 0% say in whether or not that child should ever spawn into existence (from moment of conception onwards).
I’m not one of the women saying that, I don’t support abortion in the first place. So it’s not a double standard for me to say I think both parents should be obligated to take responsibility.
fair enough, I mean double standards coming from those who see it as I described. I respect your opinion of course, I just thought it was worth pointing out the context of the original quote. After all, Chapelle is a comedian, so I think he brought attention to a serious issue in a humorous way. Figuring out the issue itself will take more time and effort from both men and women.
I somewhat disagree. If the man is the father and is actively playing a part in her life the he absolutely has a say. There is no other answer here that makes sense. If someone believes anything else than that then they are simply wrong.
Women do have the final say though and if after deliberating with the father she decides she is going to get an abortion then and he is not okay with that then the man should ditch her. If he doesn't want the kid but she does then Dave Chappelle is correct, we the fathers had no say or choice in the matter therefore we should have the right to opt out since we weren't integral to the other decision.
I don't agree with abortion, but he does have a point. If a woman has a right to choose to not give life to the child, a man also had the right to choose to not raise the child. Then, it would be the same right being exercised.
when one is single it really does not matter what she does with her body; why I have to have a problem with it? but things get different when one is with someone; it really does not matter what laws says or not; when two people comes in together and decide they will their for their life ; they work together ; they live together; they share house together; they decide together ; they expect one to take care of other when one is hurt ; they influences their personal life decision ; then one can't just decide on own on anything including with abortion; it really does not matter what law says or society; she can't expect her man to take it lightly when she says that that's her body and she will do as she please with it ; just stay out of it; I don't care what a women have to say about it when one make a rule they will decide on everything together they can't just decide on alone in anything important. This will certainly make a crack in trust and relationship.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
God I wish abortion questions were not permitted on this page I am someone who can not fall pregnant due to an underlying medical condition I would give anything to be a mom but I will never get to experience being pregnant or giving birth yet you have these females who can fall pregnant and they selfishly murder their unborn child and some don't even care how much an abortion can actually hurt their partner who did want to be a father and wanted the baby it makes me angry why are these women blessed with being able to fall pregnant but they don't even want the baby yet you have hundreds of women and men out there who would love to be a parent but that right was taken from us
and please dont give me the whole I can adopt when I am very aware I can adopt adoption is not the same as psychically carrying the baby for 40 weeks and giving birth and having that bond with your biological child
I'm sure that not being able to have your own biological child is painful when it's all you want. But please, also understand that it can be equally painful to end up pregnant when you don't want a child. Women who get abortions don't just think of their own good, but also what kind of life they would (or wouldn't) be able to give the baby. Many women get an abortion because they feel like they wouldn't be able to afford a baby or give it the life it deserves. So please, don't direct your anger at these women. They are also in a very unfortunate position.
@lumos How does a woman end up pregnant when she doesn't want it? I mean their are dozens of ways to prevent it, some of which cost a dollar and are found at nearly every convience store gas station etc, they also have insanely high sucess rates (90% range) of preventing conception. So how does she get pregnant without actively trying to get pregnant by not using contraceptive (as rape is rare and if you take rape, incest, risk to the mother and combine them together you still get less then 1% of abortions being due to that and if we go by the most cited study (from 1987) contraceptive failure only accounts for about 15% of abortions)). The fact is they are not victims, you cannot be a victim if you are doing it to yourself (its kind of like claiming your not to blame for binge drinking, no one else is making you do it, so yes your the one responsible for it.). So the argument is poor to say the least, even ignoring abstinance you have dozens of options to prevent pregnancy that are highly reliable and yet the over whelming majority of pregnancies are caused by simple neglect of using said contraceptives.
@hellionthesagereborn in 2014, 51% of women getting an abortion reported that they had used a contraceptive method the month they got pregnant. Out of these cases, condoms fail more often (24%) than the pill (13%). www.guttmacher.org/.../about-half-us-abortion-patients-report-using-contraception-month-they-became Then we also have to take into account that a) nobody is perfect human error is human, b) some people still think having sex on "safe days" is safe, c) some people still think pulling out is safe, d) sex ed in many places is ridiculous and teens don't learn nor understand the importance of contraceptives and how to use them correctly because of that. Factor in all this misinformation and ignorance (that males also fall for and convince women of, mind you ("honey i don't like wearing a condom let's just pull out")) and I'm not surprised at all that many women end up with unwanted pregnancies.
@lumoswww.johnstonsarchive.net/.../abreasons.html according to this 16% where due to a failure of the contraceptive despite proper use. The other ones are most likely improper use of contraceptives i. e. irregularly taking birth control pills etc. So again, contraceptives have a pretty high success rate when used properly, and they are very common and saying well people are going to do it anyway so we should just let them kill their child if they don't want it isn't a very reasonable argument as by that rational we could justify literally any and all behavior. The contraceptives exist, when used properly they have a very high success rate so when you don't use them (which even by your estimates that's half of all abortions) that is absolutely 100% your choice to get pregnant. In fact we can actually show that this has absolutely nothing to do with contraceptives not working (which again, as the data shows, is incorrect, they absolutely work) and people just having such an insanely strong inclination to have sex that they literally cannot control themselves (yet for some reason if we apply that to any other behavior we scoff at it). Its very simple, do men get to opt out of having children? The answer is absolutely not, they have no say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion, they get no say in whether or not they abandon that child. So we know for an absolute fact that this has nothing to do with some one having the right to choose whether or not to be a parent because we don't give that option to men and we ignore the fact that in the overwhelming majority of situations pregnancy absolutely is a choice.
@lumos So again, what your saying is not accurate based upon the data (as I have pointed out) and even if it was your reasoning is itself flawed because neither you nor abortion advocates are advocating that men also get an out. So this is very simply an argument about whether or not people (and specifically women as I have pointed out we already demand this of men) take responsibility for their actions. You are advocating that people, again specifically women, should not have to take responsibility for their actions so much so that your willing to endorse the killing of ones own offspring in order to avoid such an "inconvience".
@hellionthesagereborn why are you assuming my stance on whether men should get to opt out or not when I haven't even mentioned it? For your information I do think men should get to opt out, I strongly agree with what @weasley8 had to say about the subject.
@hellionthesagereborn it's also not just an "inconvenience". Regular pregnancy checkups cost a lot of money, money these women might not even have. Being pregnant can do permanent damage to your body, such as incontinence, abdominal pain (due to c-section scar), pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes (and therefore higher risks of heart disease, stroke etc), postpartum depression (or just depression in general, seeing as the pregnancy is unwanted), varicose veins and hemorrhoids, etc. Not to mention all the issues a woman might suffer from during pregnancy, I know of a woman who threw up literally almost every single day of her pregnancy because she was just constantly nauseous. Portraying pregnancy to be some sort of cheap and easy walk in the park, especially when it's an unwanted pregnancy, is not only extremely disrespectful but also completely false. It's not an "inconvenience", it's a really difficult thing to go through that can have long-lasting or permanent negative effects on your body.
@lumos I am making that presumption based upon every single other interaction with women with this view all of which as far as I have found where against men having the chance to opt out. I'm sorry if I presumed your position but it was based upon the arguments presented. As for "inconvience" I didn't say it was an inconvience I stated women view the life they brought into this world as an inconvience and you are just proving that point. I find that to be a rather despicable attitude to have, do you discard your children when they start getting expensive? Do you just kill them and argue that its the best thing for them when it starts being "to much"? Seems like something a sociopath would do yet here you are arguing just that, that is you are arguing that its okay for a woman to kill the child SHE brought into this world if she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions because the child is not more important then her and more specifically the life of a child is not nearly as important as a woman getting off. In your list of priorities, sexual gratification is first, convience is second and a distant third is the LIFE of a child. Again, that seem really sociopathic to me.
@lumos Not really. I think that both are equally responsible for the child and thus both should be responsible adults and take care of it. I'm merely pointing out that if one supports abortion then the only way to stay logically and intellectually and morally consistent is to also allow that option to men, even though I personally don't agree with it (but at the very least I would respect their consistency).
I will agree (mostly) with the first part of what Dave Chappelle said if, and ONLY IF, the second portion is also true.
Yes, the abortion is ultimately the decision of the mother, but I do NOT agree she should not consult the father. It is the father's child too, and it is barbaric that a man can conceive a child and the mother has no legal obligation to even tell him that he has conceived a child. Think about that for a moment. It is truly barbaric and just wrong. Anyone who disagrees with that is just a shitty excuse for a human being.
But again, the mother should have the final say about whether to keep or abort the child, but the father MUST also have the right to financially abort the child if she decides to keep it against the fathers wishes. That is the closest thing we can get to fairness in the issue of abortion. And again, anyone who disagrees with that is just a shitty person.
I agree with Dave. If women have to option to avoid having to be responsible for a child when they don't want to then it would be nice if men had that option too.
That being said, I doubt it will ever happen. The court doesn't even have a problem forcing men who are proven to not be the father to pay child support, they definitely aren't going to give men who are the father an option to opt out.
I agree, about this being the true human nature. Its upon the mom for the baby's survival even after givibg birth, and with animals too. She decides if she will make it survive or not, not the father, in any species. Like usual your life depends on the female, being the mother.
However, i would fight to get $$ whether he can leave or not.
When women stop killing male babies, then males won't have a say. Not that female babies don't deserve male support, but the defense of 'this doesn't affect males' is a straight up lie. It does.
As far as the child support argument, I think both men and women should step up and take responsibility for their offspring. But if we are going to have a world where women don't have to, then it's only fair that men should have the option to opt out as well. It's only fair.
I wish this idea was going to go somewhere, but certain people are making way too much money off of the current status quo.
We need to find out who is profiting from this system and assassinate them one by one. We need to make it clear that we won't let the law scare us into submission to a corrupt and morally bankrupt system that only recognizes the rights of women.
I agree. I fully support abortion and I believe that if a man is not going to support his child financially while the mom is the primary care giver, it should be mandatory that he signs his parental rights away permanently.
Both people should take responsibility. The woman should not have an abortion unless of some medical complication and the baby probably won't survive the birth and if the woman tries to give birth she'll also die. I even think if she was raped she should still have the baby. Because it's not the babies fault and he or she deserves to live.
The woman should be forced to carry a child that she doesn't want, deal with all of the expenses, stress, and pain involved in the pregnancy process, all for... what, exactly? A brainless embryo that doesn't even know of it's own existence yet? I might be able to understand you if the second the sperm made contact with the egg, a completely sentient being was brought into existence, but I can tell you, despite my rudementary understanding of biology, that's not the case.
@Ciscoin women and men shouldn't have sex if they cannot take full responsibility for their actions. The child shouldn't die because you selfishly don't want it. It too late, it's alive inside of her. Most women, once they go through the full 9 months and give birth will probably want their baby. That's the motherly instinct, unless she's as cold as stone. The guy doesn't have that attachment like a mother does but if he's a good guy he'll care about what happens to his own flesh and blood.
Why should a woman have to take responsibility for the consequences of a rape - Something that's completely out of her control? How is forcing a woman to bear a child that she never asked for not cold hearted, while a woman aborting an embryo that she might not have the resources to care for is?
@Ciscoin I didn't say she's to blame for being raped. I'm saying that the fetus inside of her deserves to live. It's a difficult situation of course.
In regards to consensual sex, both people involved should take responsibility. Can a man (unless he's a piece of shit) really let his own seed die or abandon his own child? That's shameful and i hope someone as selfish as that receives only bad luck. You can't gave sex and think, "Oops she's pregnant, time to run away." Or "Oops I'm pregnant time to kill this child I could give a chance to live."If she doesn't have the resources to raise it, then at least give up for adoption. Don't end its life. In all these cases (the rape, the consensual) the woman could still give birth and give it to a family who cannot have kids.
I am against abortions, but being that they aren't going anywhere I agree that no man should ever have to pay or be held accountable for any responsibilities in regards to the child. If she can decide whether or not to keep the baby, whether the man likes it or not, then he should have the choice to not be a part of it, whether she likes it or not. It's very hypocritical otherwise.
Chapelles master's make him wear a prison suit with his name on it on tour to humiliate him and his fans. The joke is we are all prisoners to the oligarchs. And this response shows that much.
I am for having safe-sex with a woman you know and trust and wouldn't mind having a baby with. So I disagree 100% with his stance.
I'm 100% pro choice and believe that it's a woman's right to do with her body as she chooses.
But I find myself with the nagging suspicion that completely excluding men from the conversation. They both made it happen and I feel that, whilst the woman gets final say, there should be at least a space in the discussion for mens view, even if its only symbolic.
That's a good point I mean it's true women can make the choice cause it's their body.
And if the man already expressed that he's unable to raise a child then forcing him to pay a chunk of his check every month isn't fair.
Well to me if a guy does have to pay it needs to be a reasonable amount. I know there's celebrities out there paying like 10k a month and that's Bs. Cause that's more than what average workers make. You don't need that much money to live and raise a baby.
no i do not agree at all. pregnancy is about the formation of a new life. so all those bitches making it about "their body" need to shut the fuck up. if they didn't want to have a child that hard, they could have used birth control. if i have a dick that means i can be a father and i should have a say in the question of "if my child shall be killed or not".
i do agree that men should not be able to tell a woman to kill her baby but same vice versa.
so like just to add that: when a woman decides to keep the child, he has to pay child support, cause guess what, the "well you could have used birth control" goes for men as well.
I mostly agree, I still think the father should be informed and consulted about the choice. I mean, it's hist baby too. What if the man wants it but decides to raise him on his own without the mother doing anything? Maybe the father could provide a compensation for the pregnancy and the birth.
I disagree on both counts. Without that man the child would never be conceived to begin with so he has rights to it as well. And responsibilities to take care of it
I completely disagree. We men might not get pregnant, but we were in our mother's wombs once. We had the right to live then and others have the right to live now. On the other hand, a man should have to pay child support, because the baby is a part of him too. So in truth I think he is backwards in both cases.
Woman is the one that have the babies so they will deside that part yes I agree. I also agree that if the man did not want to have the kid, but the woman keeps it, then the man should be allowed to "legally abort" meaning he will not support the kid. So I agree with what he says.
Of course I agree. Women are free to choose, it's their body, and no one can force them to abort. But if they choose, on their own, to keep the baby, then they're responsible for it, and the guy doesn't have to give a minute or a penny for the kid. Your choice, your responsibility, your consequences.
I agree with the first part. Not the second part. The first part is true because a woman has the absolute right to choose. The second part is not true because that would not be in the best interests of the child once she’s born.
Is that his opinion or is that a joke that was made to take advantage of a hypocrisy in social expectations? Based on his last two sentences I almost feel like he’s implying that he’s Against abortion. I don’t know.
Could be both. I'm against abortion because personally I think that their is very little excuse for it (contraceptives are common and cheap) BUT if your going to have it then I think that you have to be consistent, either you demand both parties take responsibilities for their actions or both parties get to avoid that responsibilities. As it stands now one party (the man) has to take responsibility and the other (the woman) gets to avoid it. Its hypocritical, it has to be one or the other. That was my impression of what he was saying, not necessarily that he is for abortion but that if your going to have it you have to at least be intellectually consistent with it.
You're absolutely fuckin' right!!! Why are most"people"stupid enough to think that there's anything more to something that's the most basic responsibility in life. Either don't bring into the world something that is so vulnerable + weak it depends on you to wipe its ass or don't raise a baby out of a warped sense of obligation. If you have doubt about whether you even want to or will have resentment then no doubt you'll be a shitty parent cuz only a shitty person could resent a life that had no say in its own conception
I agree with him up until he says the man shouldn't have to pay. The man helped create the baby. Even if he's not in the kid's life physically, he at least has a moral obligation to use his money to help raise the kid.
Im pro-life so I am against abortion and still disagree with him; however, I've said and heard said exactly the same argument Dave brought up. If abortion is legal at anytime for any reason, the logical conclusion is men must also have the right to not financially support a child they didn't want. If you want equality, actually be honest about it.
Nah. If you have a dick, you accept full responsibility for the repercussions of having sex wit her. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to penetrate her
But she accepted full responsibility for the repercussions of having sex with him? No one held a gun to her head and forced themselves on her? So by your rational she is just as culpable as he is (unless your saying that women are not mentally capable of making their own decisions?).
Yeah but your saying she should know the risks but also have a way out of those risks and he should know the risks but not be given an out like she is. That's where your completely inconsistent, either they understand the consequences and accept them (he supports the child and she has the child) or they don't have to accept the consequences of their actions (he gets to opt out and she gets to opt out). Anything else is not only sexist (which you will not care about ) but absolute proof that the only thing you care about is being able to avoid taking responsibility for your actions and thus you are arguing to be a child with all that entails (reduced freedom and independence because you have reduced responsibility and reduced accountability).
in An idealized world, where men and women should be completely equal in all accounts (obviously what goes on in your head), that would be the case. But only one sex grows and gives birth to the offspring. As one of my professors used to repeat over and over again, Evolution is a process with no forethought. In reality, men and women are far from equal. I enjoy seeing things from a larger perspective... There are many things in life that are not fair. Whining about what you cannot change is futile.
@hellionthesagereborn if you’d like to whine some more, before you retort, keep in mind the fact that you don’t have to experience bleeding and messy underwear on a mo they basis for half your life, nor do you have to go through the pains of childbirth. For fucks sake, up until recently, with advancements in modern medicine, many women DIED giving birth. I don’t want to hear your entitled shit talk.
You live longer, you have literally more life then I do. Up until even more recently then what your stating (and that ended thanks almost exclusively to men which your conviently forgetting) men where forced against their will into military service i. e. legal slavery but only if you where male. You are less likely to die young of most diseases compared to men as well. You also don't get your genitals mutilated (as its illegal but only when done to women) like I and 70% of men in America (and significantly more in Africa and the middle east) have had (and prior to the early 2000s without anesthetics), you also get the right to vote, have a license, have access to state and federal loans (like student loans) without ever having to sign up for selective services unlike every man in the nation. You also being a woman, , are far more likely to be taken care of, so much in fact that you are better off in literally every single category bar none compared to men (you even get a third of the sentencing compared to men for commiting the same crime).
You also will never know what its like to have your child murdered against your will unlike what you are demanding men be put through, legally you will never know what its like to be forced to take care of a child you don't want unlike men, you will never be forced to take care of a child that isn't yours thanks to their being no law against paternity fraud. You will also, thanks to hermsman vs seyer court ruling, never be forced to pay child support for 18 years to a child regardless of the circumstances of the pregnancy (in this case it was a 12 year old boy forced to pay his babysitter who raped him child support). So yeah, that's a stupid argument and one that you haven't thought out at all. It also is completely unrelated to the topic at hand.
So in fact you as a woman are, if we are going to look at things objectively and take into account the substantial amount of statistical and legal data, the most entitled person in the country (and really the world). By your rational your not allowed to talk about pretty much 90% of topics as they generally affect men.
I've always seen Dave as a very sensible person and a great comedian. I fully agree with his stand on abortion and it has always been my own personal stand on it.
Although I think it’s fine for men to be able to have their opinion when asked for it, however the woman makes the final decision regarding this issue.
first bit yeah but the second not so much... because its borderline encouraging abortion or suggesting kids are nothin more than a meal ticket but i do actually see the logic
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Nugget, that's why it can't be more important to put the Goat Darn condom on you penis. Otherwise, you've got to pay for your cum inside of that lady, if she needs the money because of your cum inside of ther body.
So it is the man's responsibility, but he doesn't get a say whether it lives or dies? That doesn't sound right. If women can choose to be parents, then men should have that same choice. Women seem to be all for equality until it negatively affects them
You don’t get to give birth why would you get that say? And men can always choose to wear a condom or not have sex simple. You don’t get to take womans rights away to our own body’s if men had to go through the same thing that would be so equality you’re trying to compare someone’s health and body that can’t go back ever to some mans wallet issue after he has a child like no 👎🏽
You aren't the man, so why do you get to choose what he does or doesn't do with his life? And women can always choose to use protection or not have sex, simple. Funny how easily your argument can be reversed.
You don't get to take men's rights away to our own lives and money.
So what if a man can't afford it he ends up in prison? How is that fair. If a women can't afford the kid she gets money from the government. Talk about a double standard.
The abortion option helps women improve their economic status before having kids, so why aren't men given that same chance.
It may be a women's body, but it is a man's life and money, and he should be able to choose who is in it and where he spends his money. And if this body thing is so important think of it like this: the man obtained his money through his body and the man's life is also his body, so same argument different words.
Besides if a women knowingly brings a kid into the world with out a father and with a lack of money she is being selfish and putting the kid a terrible life.
Because he as a grown man chose to have sex no one else but him that’s HIS sperm and than your body and also it’s our body though you’re trying to compare your money issues to our fucking body’s OUR HEALTH the actual line between life and death. Men getting put on child support is the right thing to do when he’s always had a choice since way before the baby.
Why would you get a say in his money? If she chose to have sex with him she knew the consequences as well as he did so she made the choice to get pregnant. That means by your own rational that women should not be allowed to abort their child because they chose for that child to exist and the man isn't allowed to abandon it because he chose for it to exist.
No i didn’t say that at all woman can abort babies because it’s our bodies which I’m sorry a man will NEVER go through the same things ever. Our health changes or body’s change and we could also die giving birth and if men didn’t want a baby that’s his fault for sleeping with woman he didn’t want a baby from this isn’t the same as woman having to be pregnant and give birth and than after take care of a child. A man will never understand that ever so don’t tell me your money issue is ever at comparison I don’t care I’m in a state where abortions are legal and everything is perfect right here ^.^.
If the man can't afford child support he ends up in prison, and people die in prison all the time. As I've said, it is the man's life, why is a women's body given more value? You are just a sexist individual that doesn't believe in giving men the same choices as women. Why do women get yo benefit from the choice of abortion, but men don't.
If a woman knowingly brings a kid into the world, where the father isn't involved or paying for the kid she should end up on prison for child endangerment, just like men who can't afford child support. Women will never understand what it is like to be a man in this situation.
Give me a break it’s not that serious you’ll owe money maybe go to prison if you don’t pay but to say you’ll die for it no lol unless you don’t know how to navigate in prison. X) Also you’re trying to compare a mans wallet to his actual health and an actual line of death and life when it’s not similar we can all complain about money especially single moms why the fuck should they sacrifice literally everything? Just because a man is selfish and thinks he doesn’t need to do anything if he doesn’t want the kid oh well it’s not like men don’t have a super easy choice in the beginning and 18 years is all you got anyways it’s not the same as for woman
I'm not talking just about a man's money, I'm talking about his life and is right to choose what happens in it.
Single moms don't sacrifice money, because they get it from the government if the guy can't pay. Personally, if guys who can't pay go to prison the mother should to if she can't afford the kid she chose to have.
Just because a women is selfish and chooses to have a kid she can't afford and the guy doesn't want doesn't mean the guy's life should be ruined. He shouldn't have to pay if he didn't want the kid and doesn't want to be part of its life. The mother gets to choose, so so should the man. The choice to or not to be a parent is a right everyone should have, not just women. Stop being a sexist pig. 18 years and college. Child support often includes paying for some college.
This is referring to a not taking care of a chil you chose to have and leaving behind literally an impossible situation. We have to think of our kids first when we choose to have them it’s not about making you feel good. Also just stop you don’t know anything about actually being a single mom and government help is not ever enough and you’re forgetting every other expense and also the time needed to raise a child you don’t understand this is not ever going to be a one person job. The answer is simple for men since you’re job will always be the simpilest you wrap it up prior and don’t sleep with woman you cannot see yourself having a child with.
Child * and you’re also forgetting you’re blood entirely it’s part you the baby will ALWAYS carry your DNA that’s your family period. You don’t get to leave them behind because you think your wallet is the most valuable thing in the world, if you can’t see how your child’s life is valuable and beyond just the fucking mother you’re an asshole period. You keep trying to compare two situations that are not alike ever idc a man could not walk in a woman’s shoes and there’s always gonna be a need for the other person or another person that’s just how it is period you cannot run from that.
Well the way I see it is if you can kill it I can sure as hell abandon it. Do mothers think of the kids first when the get an abortion? You don't know anything about being forced to be a parent you don't want to be or pay for a person you can't afford with the fear of prison.
Women have birth control and condoms too. They also can time it with their natural cycles to avoid getting pregnant, so based on that women should be able to get an abortion either?
So basically a mother can kill her family? Why is a man expected to pay for a kid and not get a say in whether it is even going to be born or not.
Mothers who get abortions obviously don't see the child's value either so why should a man?
It comes down to women having an extra choice that the man doesn't have. That is a double standard and sexist. It is also a double standard that men end up in prison if they can't pay, yet women looking after the kid don't.
You don’t understand lol the choice between aborting or not aborting belongs to a mother because regardless if she choose to keep the baby her responsibility for it will ALWAYS be way beyond yours that’s always how it’s going to be. You don’t get to abandon a child idc that’s directly fucking over a child and that’s why law protects them it’s not about the mother. It’s all about the child and it getting everything it needs and no the mother could not provided everything by herself on her own she needs helps even single fathers get some kind of help from somebody even if that’s their moms I know a single dad who’s babymom left him for drugs and his mom and government help him and he still needs to raise this kid it’s really not easy for anyone. The fact is it’s not a one person job
You’re making this a battle between a man and woman but it’s not lol this is really all about the child once it is chosen to be brought into the world and yes that choice only belongs to woman because regardless we are the ones who’ll be making the biggest sacrifice forever it’s not just 18 years and also the fact that we may not even make it like you don’t understand Have sex with a condom and with woman you can have a child with and not mind simple as that. Woman don’t have to take birth control either just to let you know that shit has affects on our body too -,- your step is literally the easiest shit ever but you guys complain your condom won’t get lost in your body and kill your. Your condom won’t make you gain unnecessary weight or give you mood swings Your condom won’t kill you bottom line period like what more do you need? MEN have it so fucking easy you don’t even get it 🙄
You do realize there things called female condoms, right?
It is between men and women because men are the ones that don't have the right to choose to be a parent or not, while women do.
Think of it this way. If a man currently doesn't want to be a father he can force an abortion on a women, either through physically doing it himself, or by pressuring her into it. That harms the women. So basically you are saying it is okay to put a women in a dangerous position, as long as men who don't do it pay for the kids they don't want.
No I’m not I’m pro choice as in woman hey a choice with their own body, you can think whatever you want but my opinion is mine you’re not changing it or twisting it around for me.
So you're sexist because you ownly believe in pro choice for women. Guess I got my answer. Feminism is a sexist organization. It is like the kkk but for gender😂
💯 i can tell you’re a whitesupremacist because your ignorant ass really thinks these two are at comparison And you’re using sexism in the wrong term firstly by trying to compre to very very different things.
Also I’m not going to keep arguing with you period my opinion is mine and it’s not changing and you don’t get to choose what it is especially when you aren’t using the terms right now bye now
No you’re using the term sexism wrong you’re trying to make something sexist when it’s not because the two are completely different in sooo many aspects. And like I said bye period
Hell yes I agree! EQUALITY. I can't tell you what to do with your body cool, shut the hell up about my money. You want child support give men equal reproductive rights. Afraid to get preggers with a deadbeat... make better choices dumb@$$
No everyone is entitled to their opinion, that being said of course abortions should be legal, I’m for freedom so freedom of speech and freedom of choosing to do with your body what you want
Ofc we have nothing in the saying! We were all given The Condom, and we made our choice with the last saying on that subject. Now they make theirs with their last saying on this subject.
More interesting is the subject of child support. I think there should be a law in place taking note of the father's stance and absolving him of any responsibility.
He obviously does not value the lives of anyone and does not care about the way a child is raised. His beliefs are the reason we have so many fatherless children and so many female murderers.
Scientifically speaking, life begins at conception. So all these so called atheists who think it is moral for women to decide who lives or dies are a hypocrite to their scientific community.
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