My Reasons for Support Traditional Gender Roles and Wanting a More Traditional Relationship

[DaddyRollingStone]

I believe that traditional gender roles are generally better, here are a few reasons as to why I think that.

Time

For a couple where both people work and don't get home till late in the afternoon, they will have to scramble to do their household chores like cleaning and cooking when they get home and then do things like their finances while they are in bed, or could be in bed. But when the wife stays home to take on these daily tasks, and yes I believe it should be the wife and I will explain why later, the cleaning and cooking is done already. This gives you more time to relax and time to spend together.

Children

If both parents are working again, who will watch the kids? You can hire a babysitter or use a daycare but that will hurt your wallet. Plus, do you really want someone else to raise your kids for you? Whats the point of having a family if you're just going to pay someone to be a parent for you? With someone staying home to care for them you can rest assured they are with someone who is there for their well being and best interests, not just the money you're giving them.

More Intimacy

Remember all of that time you're going to be having extra of now? Yeah, well here's what it correlates to: more sex. What does more sex mean for a married couple? Usually it means a closer relationship. Sex isn't a chore but at the same time it somewhat is. Ask men who have sex with their wives only on their birthdays and their anniversary if they are satisfied. If their wife isn't in the room I'll take a wild guess and say the answer is 'not very.' How can you have time for sex, and other forms on intimacy, if you're up to your eyeballs every day after work? Well, you won't.

The Appeal to Men

I believe that embracing your traditional roles as man is the most empowering thing you can do for yourself. You are the leader of the household, every important decision is run past you first. You provide for and protect your family, without you there they would not be able to thrive. You recognize that you are needed by your family and you are important to them. Your job isn't easy but ultimately it is very rewarding.

The Appeal to Women

This is where things get controversial probably, which is why I saved it for last. As the woman you are the caregiver, you cook for the family and keep the house clean. This is job was awarded to women because their bodies are built to birth and feed children, so it seems appropiate that they would deal with things of that nature. Also because before white collar jobs were so common, men were doing jobs thay required strenuous labor that women could simply not do. You have financial stability thanks to your husband and security; no one will hurt you if your husband can't stop them first. I think many women still seek these things from men even though they are told to support themselves now. The role of the mother and wife in the household is important and your family does need you. Without you the house would fall apart. The way I see it, the woman is the core of the family, and she helps everything happen and makes it happen smoothely.

So there you have it, my reasons as to why I support traditional gender roles. If this didn't convince you, I dont mind because that wasn't my intention. I will try to respond to your comments as they come.

[xHoneyxBeex]

That's great if this is what works for you and your wife. However, you have absolutely no right to say what other people "should" or "should not" do. I value the freedom of choice. I'm in college working on getting my degree and I'll be damned if I graduate and then just sit at home cleaning and cooking all day. No, thank you.

I want to actually do something with my life, be productive, and make my own money. I don't mind traditional gender roles if that's what other couples want to do. However, that shouldn't be imposed on me. I have the right to choose a different lifestyle if I want to and I shouldn't be made to feel bad or guilty about wanting to work outside of the home.

[DaddyRollingStone]

That's cool, can you find where I said that I want everyone to live the same way I want to?

[xHoneyxBeex]

That's simply the vibe I got from your take while I was reading it.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Perhaps it was misguided. The title is "My Reasons for Support Traditional Gender Roles and Wanting a More Traditional Relationship" and it is simply that.

I don't really care about how other people to choose to live

[xHoneyxBeex]

Okay. Well like I said in my response, if a traditional lifestyle works for you then I think that's great. It's really just a personal decision, every couple is different.

[Watermelonoma]

pork chops

[warumnicht]

No I hate this. What's empowering Is living as you want to. I like using my mind I could never ask my future partner to do brain numbing work all day, it should be shared. Neither would I want her to want to do the work as an intelligent brain is always more attractive.
besides things are more fun with a little spontaneity. Coming home everyday to have food cooked would be boring. Adventurous is always better and a lot of that comes down to confidence which if you're in a job and doing something is generally more I really strugg le to understand this mentality

[SkyloreDay]

Spoken like a REAL man, not a insecure boy.

[been_waiting]

*slow clap*

[warumnicht]

It's nothing to do with being a man I don't understand how there can be a different view point. It's much better to be around equals

@been_waiting, why do I get the sarcasm treatment? :P

[been_waiting]

I'm not being sarcastic. I liked your post silly.

[warumnicht]

Okay I apologise that's normally sarcasm to me.

[gray_sailor]

@been_waiting

FYI *slow clap* is a meme that is always intended to indicate sarcasm.

The speed of the clapping being an indication of the enthusiasm with which the ideas of the target of the clapping are recieved.

[koko124]

>I like using my mind I could never ask my future partner to do brain numbing work all day, it should be shared.

As expected, an 18 year old with no experience in the workforce thinks that having a job isn't "brain numbing", while caring for a home is.

[DaddyRollingStone]

@koko124
let the coporate slave figure it out himself. Housework can't be any worse than crunching numbers and doing long divison 12 hours a day

[warumnicht]

No because I plan to use my brain. Chemical engineering. It will never be the case that everyday is particularly exciting but i go to a place and do volunteer work, they run camps for kids and as support team you pretty much keep the place running. I go there If I'm feeling in the particularly mood for brainless work I wouldn't want to do it everyday. I've done jobs packing boxes so I know equally well it can be brain numbing working but that's why you choose something that interests you.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Choosing a job you like is quite a luxury in itself

[warumnicht]

You make yourself valuable then.

[been_waiting]

I threw up a little bit...

I believe in personal choice, personal freedom, and personal responsibility. I believe that society shouldn't tell us what our jobs are based on our genitals or what role we're supposed to fill, even what traits we must embody.
I've met incredibly brave, resilient, and emotionally reserved women and emotional, nurturing, men. Who we are as human beings has little to do with the stuff between our legs. Yes, women and men have undeniable differences and yes there's traits women embody more than men and vice versa in a general sense, but that shouldn't set a precedent for every human born into this world.

If a man decides he wants to be a stay at home dad and he's good at it who the hell are you to say its wrong? If a woman wants to be the breadwinner who the hell are you to say its wrong? People should, and can, lead the lives they want.

The 50s were NOT a magical time in any sense. Hmmm, racism and oppression of females comes to mind, not to mention rampant homophobia and other intolerance. My father was born in 1956 and raised in a very traditional 1950s home and he sure as hell didn't turn out any better than my older brother has.
He's extremely stoic because "men don't cry" and as a result, he's an alcoholic. He also thinks he's the king of the house and that's a joke. I don't tolerate the way he tries to treat me. Any self respecting woman today wouldn't ever let a man think he's the decision maker, head of the house etc etc.

Men and women are equal partners in marriage, bottom line.

If you personally want to find a woman who is ok with being told what to do and being a stay at home mom go for it. That's your choice. But that's a *****PERSONAL DECISION*****. Don't try to push your personal decisions on others

[DaddyRollingStone]

What about the 1850s?

[been_waiting]

What about the 1850s?

[Noxifer626]

The 1850's?
Really?
REALLY?

[jrose]

I have heard most of those arguments before and I'm still not convinced. What happens to the relationship if one person dies, gets sick or just leaves? How does the dad care for the kids since he apparently never learned how? How does the mom support her family since she has no professional experience? And, after the initial breast-feeding stage, why can't the dad be the care giver and the woman go to work? Protection isn't really a reason since who exactly does my family need protection from on a daily basis? If you're not in the mob or anything, I doubt you're under a direct threat. And I have to tell you, I've been doing ok on my own as a single woman...

I've seen that families without traditional gender roles can work just fine, mine certainly does. Both of my parents worked and *gasp* my mom actually made more than my dad a lot of the time, she still does. They shared the household chores and we were taught at a young age to pitch in-we had chores around the house and we did them. We all had sports or activities and my parents were always there to support us. Yes we went to daycare, but I went to school socialized a lot better than some of the kids who only ever had their parents or siblings around. Now, with all of us grown up, living away from home and my sibs starting families of their own, we're still close. We have Sunday dinners, celebrate birthdays together etc. My parents still run errands together on Saturdays, take winter trips together, and celebrate their anniversary every year. And, as an added bonus, us kids grew up well-rounded. I know how to change the oil in my car, I have a tool box with the basics and can use it, I can run a lawn mower and a snow blower. My brother is a good cook, he does his own laundry and he's great with my nephew. None of us shy away from a job because it's a "man's job" or a "woman's job", if it needs to be done, we can do it. I like it that way.
Now, I'm not saying what you want is wrong, but it's sure not for me.

[AleDeEurope]

I completely disagree with you. There should be no gender roles, but decisions. People should decide what they wanna do with their lives. I personally, wanna have a job in the future, and also form a family, but if my wife is winning more money and basically her job is better than mine in all aspects, I wouldn't mind being a stay at home father, in fact, I would actually like to be one when my kid/s are born. I don't wanna be the father that comes home late, drinks a beer and doesn't pay attention to his kid.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the woman staying at home and the man working. And if both want to work, then so be it. Sure, I support the idea of one parent to stay at home when the kid is still a baby, but after they're able to go to kindergarten, they can go back to work, without needing to hire a babysitter. Also, babysitters aren't too expensive, and if you have two salaries (woman and man) it's not gonna hurt your pockets at all.

Like I said, there shouldn't be gender roles, this is the 21st century and we have evolved from all that. Wife and husband should sit down and talk things through, and then decide what's best for the family. That's how a successful family is formed.

[QueenofArcticFoxes]

These "bitches" are going to destroy everything huh? So we are bitches now? Awesome. I lost 100% to the person who wrote that.

-Double the income
-Low birth rate right now so kids are not a big issue and also aunts, uncles can care.
-Men? Seriously? Did you know men use to dress in tights and learn ballet? 17th century. "but this is modern times" -yeah so your argument is dead because its old?
-More sex? You do know eventually your sex will get less passionate? Distance makes the heart fonder. Your wife works all day, you miss her, you meet up and make sparks fly.
-There are actually more stay at home fathers right now. Are they not men? Do they not reserve respect? Do you think its easy for them? No its not but do you not want them to spend time with their children or are only women allowed to spend time with women?

I now lost my respect to the "bitches" fool and have gained 100% respect for @AleDeEurope. WHO IS A REAL MAN! Not like the fool who decided to insult the female gender.

[QueenofArcticFoxes]

*I am not trying to offend the take owner in any way. I simply got aggressive towards the owner of the "bitches destroy everything" comment.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Low birth rates are very bad
Less passionate sex is still sex, a healthy sex life is a great way to reduce prostate cancer

I maintain that my position that all men should work, even if they hate it. You need to learn to suck it up and do it no matter what, especially if you have a family that depends on you.

[CreepyOldMan]

Problem?

[QueenofArcticFoxes]

Low birth rates are very bad. Are you suggesting over population is good?
Exactly. You said it. Less passionate sex is still sex. So even if I work ten hours and so does my husband, we can still have less passionate sex. Which is still sex to you.

Even they hate it? You don't get it do you? A family unit can not survive like that. Children KNOW when their parents are unhappy and its leads to issues.

Your logic will always be misguided sexism. And that, saddens me.

@CreepyOldMan The problem is you referring to women as bitches, a lovely term meaning female dog. If you must carry respect, you must know how not to degrade a gender. You can have intelligence and still be seen as a male "bitch". Those who have no intelligence yet are respectful are the wise ones because they know that intelligence will not amount to respect.

I am not a bitch and my gender are not bitches either.

[CreepyOldMan]

How do you know I was talking about just women?

There's a lot of other bitches destroying it too. And they aren't females.

[QueenofArcticFoxes]

@CreepyOldMan

"However, we'll have to wait till the post a apocalyptic fallout to see it realize, because these bitches are going to destroy everything, and there's no stopping now.

Man blessings to you. :-)"

Let me remind you, bitches is a derogatory terms used for females. Also you said "Man blessings". Not "blessings" but "man blessings".

Anyone would know that statement is derogatory towards the female gender and supporting the Take Owner's Take.

[CreepyOldMan]

I see you're offended. Bitches offend me too.

[QueenofArcticFoxes]

@CreepyOldMan cute. Really cute of you.

[Izzy2102]

No doubt that there are advantages to it, but there are also disadvantages to it. You can't really be serious here just talking about the advantages and saying that is the way to go.
There are major disadvantages to that too like,

- not many men have the kind of salary that can support a family. So what do you suggest women who want that kind of relationship? Look for wealthy men? But men don't like gold diggers, or do they?
- divorce. When the nuclear family was common divorce wasn't. When you get a divorce now, she won't have a job and probably will never get s good one again, which means that for the rest of your lives she'll be struggling and you'll be paying alimony
- unless you have tenure or something, financial security goes out the window. People lose their jobs and when there is only one breadwinner it hits the family much harder. The 50s and 60s were time of economic boom in the US and the time of socialism, where the government taxed the rich and gave to the poor. In almost all other times of history women worked. Aside from the monarchs and other privileged classes, women had to work. Not sure you've noticed, but we're in a recession
- it is NOT for everyone. It might it be the thing for you but don't assume it's for everyone and you can't simply push the same standards on everyone just because you think they're right

[lumos]

While I think you're allowed to want to live a more traditional lifestyle since it's your preference and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you find a girl who's on the same page as you, at the same time I feel like this myTake became a bit too preachy and one-sided. I could never be happy as a housewife. Ever. I would feel miserable, and if I decide to have kids, my misery would ultimately make me become a bad mother. I grew up with two working parents and I turned out just fine. So did the majority of my friends. I spent a lot of time at the daycare, sometimes even being the last kid to leave due to my parents working so late, but it was fine. I still saw my parents as my parents, they were still the ones who mainly raised me. I simply saw babysitters and daycare employees as my teachers/friends. Although they taught me a lot, I'd still say that I was taught the most by my own parents.
I would go insane if I couldn't do anything else besides cook, clean and take care of the kid (s). I want to work. I want to make my own money. I want to be somewhat independent, even though I'm in a relationship. What if the relationship turns to crap and I end up with nothing? Then what? I won't have a career to fall back on since I've 100% relied on my husband to provide for me. I'll have less money, if any money at all, and how am I then supposed to be able to provide for myself and the kid (s)?
I also think a relationship/marriage should be 50/50 (for me). I want my husband to care about my opinions too. I want him to run things by me too, especially if they're huge things that affect everyone in the family. I want us to make decisions together. I don't want to feel like I need his approval for everything, whereas he doesn't need my approval at all, as if he's my parent that I need to obey. It just wouldn't work for me. I would absolutely loathe a relationship like that.

[9mfeo]

Agreed!

[Jersey1]

My wife has stayed home the vast majority of our marriage. We are a team, and a very good one. She has control over the checkbook and accounts and I handle the investments. This is how I grew up as my mom had the check book. I really dont care about the checkbook etc. I make the money and she handles the expenditure for the most part. she took care of the kids, house, cooking etc and me. I took care of work, cars, yard etc. no one felt bad about it. We were and are a team, a great team. Kids turned out great and we have been very happy. On the moeny side, I had to outperform to make up for one income vs two. I work d harder and smarter buyt had a very good family balmance of work and play. We have more than enough money now because those higher level jobs I got pay a LOT more then two regualr jobs. I, am sure we made more by having one working because it made me find ways to advance in high paying fields as I switched careers at one point, to go further. Real life is more complicated than some of the views on traditional roles.

[PT1911]

I had a upbringing in a similar household that you run, but my mom also had a job, in fact paid just about the same as my dad (IT professionals)

In the end, marriage is teamwork, people keep forgetting that

[Jersey1]

@PT1911 the surprising thing for me was that we actually made more money with one income as I "needed" to find ky way into higher positions for more money. Not having to worry about pciking up the kids etc or being able to fly to Eurpoe on a day's notice helped tremendously as i got huge pay packages. You arebright though, it is Teamwork, people forget that. They only carebabout themeselves it seems.

by the way, I have a Rock Island 1911. Hehe.

[PT1911]

Exactly, it's about you providing for your family. My mom decided to take a break from working, as she saw it was a strain on the marriage and became a stay at home mom for a while. She also made sure that when she did that, my father's income was enough to provide for us. She eventually rejoined to help making pay for my college tution easier.

Like I said to someone else just know, who thinks that giving "spheres" for each gender destroys intimacy, it doesn't. Lack of communication and teamwork destroys intimacy. I remember hen my parents marriage was compromised many times because of their professional careers, when one of them decided to take a break, the intimacy was rekindled. Of course my mother started working again out of necessity, which my father appreciates and respects

[misupanda]

It depends really. I personally love the idea of being a stay-at-home mom, so I enjoy the idea. But I definitely don't think it's for everyone, and people shouldn't be forced to do it. It should be a choice people make. I don't look down at stay-at-home dads, as long as the woman is okay with it. I also don't look down on both parents working. I do think that it works better if a parent stays home, especially after taking a developmental psychology class, at least for the first 5-10 years of the child's life, but I don't want people controlling how I parent my kids, so I won't control theirs.
That being said, I don't think women should be "subservient" to men. Men and women are both people with feelings, dreams, aspirations, etc., so it's important for the woman to be treated with respect, and not like a slave or housekeeper. Same with the man. I won't want to clean, because I'm told to. I'll want to keep the house clean and be a good wife, because I love the person, and I understand he may be stressed at the end of the day, and I'd want to create a peaceful place where we can relax together at the end of the day. So ultimately, it's up to the couple/family I think. ^^

[HumbleTeddy]

Perfect :')

[Roycaryn]

I believe that traditional segregation of gender roles (for America at least) was opted out of necessity rather than its effectiveness for the following reasons:

Time

-It's tough to pull a good work life balance either way. If you have two income earners, then you obviously get twice the income (or something close) and the expense of having less time for chores and the like. There's no way you can get extra time for free like that. Both the man and the woman could easily just work 6 hours each a day and still have plenty of time left over.

Kids

-In the vast majority of societies that do not over-rely on the nuclear family, child rearing becomes much less of an issue for parents. In Slavic and Islamic cultures where extended family is far more tight knit than here in America, you can easily count on aunts, uncles, grandparents, great-aunts etc. along with close, trusted friends to help you care for the kids.

Intimacy

-Again, doesn't really apply due to the time issue.

Appeal to Men/Women

-This will obviously appeal much less to women who find a lot of meaning in their professional lives as well as men who want to be emotionally connected with their children. If you put one sphere off to the side for men and another side for women, what you end up with is a seriously compromised ability to "build bridges" and share mutual sympathies leading to less, not more intimacy.

[MaskedSanity]

MHO right here.

[PT1911]

When my mother was unemployed for a while and became a stay at home mom, it led to more intimacy between my parents...

Of course she found another job out of necessity, but still, for some reason being a stay at home mom or dad is villanized as "geneder oppression" when really it is just as important as the other role.

So no, I don't buy into your argument. If one parents is needed to stay at home to create a stable environment for the family (usually a mother, that's just the way it is) then that is a good thing. Considering that my parents marriage was compromised several times by their professional careers, that destroys their intimacy, it was rekindled my my mom decided to stay at home for a while after doing the math and making sure my father made enough to provide us. That time of her being home rekindled the marriage, brought back much of the intimacy that was lost She eventually decided to get back into the workforce to help me get through college, which of course my father

[PT1911]

respected and appreciated. The main point it as long as the couple has a plan, a dynamic that allows a stable household, intimacy will not be lost

[Roycaryn]

@PT1911 My experience refutes OP's point as well. My mother was a stay-at-home wife and she gave me exactly zero intimacy growing up. My dad too was emotionally absent, contributing to us little more than a paycheck each month. So for me, traditional family roles have been a total, abject failure. But it again depends on time spent on leisure and child rearing at home and total household income. Having both parents work 8 hour days is obviously going to mean less time and intimacy, but I don't know if that's a good excuse for having the man be the one who's away from home most of the day.

[Anonymous]

This is about one parent staying home... Nothing to do with women staying home.

You'd have more time if the dad stayed home and took care of the kids and I'd find it very sexy. It'd make be want to fuck him more. If I stayed home I woukd be bored and not feel I was living up to my potential. Cooking cleaning are not passions of mine they are things I do as a matter if iracthcality in my free time bc it needs to be done. Not something I plan to do with my life. . I absolutely would not feel like having sex.

Of course it's appealing to you bc you get a maid a nanny a plumber a chef. If you both work you have to be those things too or if you stay home that responsibility falls to you.

You like traditional gender roles bc you get all the benefits without disrupting your life.
Write me an article about why you love staying at home with the kids and cooking for your wife. . Maybe I'll think you're being genuine with your appreciation if roles... and not just being the kid jealously guarding the tpy refusing to let anyone have it then telling it's parent no one else wanted to play with it.

[DaddyRollingStone]

I don't love stay at home dads lol I didn't iterate it enough obviously but I think all men should have jobs to support their families. If you are a man and choose not to work, I have very little respect for you.

[washize]

Traditional gender roles only work for people who want to have traditional gender roles. IF a woman doesn't want to stay home pregnant and bare foot, she isn't going to be a good stay at home wife or mother. IF a man doesn't want to be away from his family 18 hours a day missing most of his child's life, then he isn't going to make a good father or husband.

You can't force people to do what they have no interest in doing. There are plenty of men and women who have no interest in marriage or children. There are plenty of men and women who have their own goals, dreams, and ambitions, that they would never be able to obtain if they stuck with limiting gender roles.

[GirlsLie]

This pretty much sums it up, let people do what they want.

[DaddyRollingStone]

If a man has to work 18 hours a day to support his family he will though, of course he won't be happy but he has a family. There is no room to be unhappy when people rely on you.

[GirlsLie]

But what kind of life is that for anyone? You work 18 hours a day and aren't happy then you come home to a family that barely see's you and a wife who isn't happy because she's been with kids for 18 hours, do you think your children and wife will be happy with a man they never see and when they do see him he's exhausted and unhappy? The entire situation seems very limiting to me and a dumb situation to purposely get yourself into.

[DaddyRollingStone]

It's a hard life, and I'll tell you what if you work 18 hours a day you're not a banker. You're working in a factory or a coal mine or a steel mill. The labor is grueling and hard most likely. I'd rather have to work like that than make my wife do it and I'd rather be unhappy with my job than have hungry kids.

Nobody puts themselves into that, it happens to them. Luckily things aren't like that for most people anymore.

[GirlsLie]

Well i'm honestly glad you have morals but I think people do put themselves into those situations. You can help when you get married and when you get pregnant (most of the time lol).

I guess I just like to plan ahead when it comes to situations where children are involved and as a woman I would never be comfortable having children if I wasn't able to financially take care of them if something happened to my husband or if he decided to leave.

[spuitkaas]

But what if it's a woman's dream to become a doctor and work with people everyday? They should still stay home and clean?
What if a woman was a genius and could save a lot of people by her job? They should stay home because she's a woman and that's her task?
Women should be able to fulfill their dreams. If it's caring for the kids or having a fulltime job. Same with men. If they want to clean and take care of the kids all day, then they should be able to do that. Not being stopped by their gender.
You also didn't mention gay couples. What should a lesbian couple do?
Let people do what they dream of and don't let your gender hold you back. Ofcourse, someone has to take care of the kids, but that's why thinking of having kids should be considered very carefully.

[GirlsLie]

I'm so glad you said this, I was thinking the same thing. What about men who have dreams outside of being a mother and house wife or gay/lesbian couples.

[GirlsLie]

women*

[spuitkaas]

@GirlsLie I'm actually surprised by the other reactions here. There are so many people who support this take. I though we lived in 2015.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Are you serious? Lol the response was overwhellmingly negative.

[spuitkaas]

I haven't fully scrolled down tbh. Maybe my brain was focussing on the positive posts.
Is your view by these opinions changed in any way?

[DaddyRollingStone]

No, not really. I am set in my opinions and beliefs. I'll change when I want to, and I don't want to change.

[cipher42]

The vast majority of your arguments are based off the idea that not having traditional gender roles means both members of the couple have to be working basically full time jobs. That's pretty obviously not true. For one thing, there's more to gender roles than work. For another, why can't the man do housework and the woman work, thus both reversing the gender roles and making your arguments untrue?

As for your last two arguments, one of the major issues with gender roles is that they put men in a position of power over women. So yes, they are empowering for men, but at the expense of oppressing women, which is not okay. And the biology argument is just plain stupid. We aren't in the past anymore, so the physical labor argument is irrelevant anyhow, and one of the main reasons women find traditional gender roles appealing is because society teaches that those gender roles are good and desirable. Circular argument there, basically.

[Cam700]

Coming from a family where my mother has always been the breadwinner makes this a little hard to stomach. Your ideology falls flat when you consider both of you working allows you to be financially secure, and I sure as hell am not letting my husband fight my battles for me. You enter into a relationship a two equals, not to make the woman a subservient second. Did you ever stop to think how much further on we'd be as a race if women had been in the work place earlier. The fact is we think differently and to narrow down the runnings to a single gender wouldn't work!! Then you've got to consider homosexual couples... Would you try and I still your traditional heterosexual values on them?

[Strider90]

After reading this whole My take this all you understood... making the woman a subservient second...
You must be very smart indeed.

[warumnicht]

She is smart actually, maybe she adressed those points because she saw the others as irrelevant. I can't personally see the interest of living at home everyday why is it women automatically would.

[DaddyRollingStone]

White knights at it again

[warumnicht]

She raises good points. Why should a women rely on the man. Why not swap it so women work and men stay at home. It works on the same principles as your traditional family roles, one supporting the other so would you Do it? If not why not?

[MaskedSanity]

@warumnicht

Because he sees women as inferior.

If you read his replies, he says he would respect a stay at home man a lot less. This means that he considers household tasks to be unsuitable for a man, that men are destined for better things, which in turn says that lesser tasks should be given to lesser beings i. e. women.

If his reasoning was to make families productive and versatile, I would understand the desire to distribute work, chores and such. But no, if a guy stays at home and the woman works - it's a big no no for this one.

[DaddyRollingStone]

@MaskedSanity
>says I think all men should work
>that translates to I hate women

Your perception that doing housework is a "lesser" task that is, of course, passed off to women because they're inferior to men. I say all men must work because it is their duty, they must do it. What good is a man who does not work?

[Cam700]

What about those who are physically unable to work, through disability or mental illness. Are they lesser men? I advise you be careful about what you say because you seem to want a society which is reminiscent of a certain German leader's utopia.

[DaddyRollingStone]

There are things in place to take care of them.. My grandfather was an executive at a shoe company but he conceded kidney disease and died. His company gave my grandmother a pension of his salary for the rest of her life. She ended up taking a job as a secretary though because she was bored.

I don't think being someone who supports traditional gender roles is the same as being the person who started a the second world war and killed millions of people is quite the same, but that's just me.

[Cam700]

I never said the same as, just that you uphold certain values he did. I think as a woman you want to make sure you are able to provide for yourself and 'protect yourself', we no longer need men to do that for us. Do you not think that men are starting to become less 'needed' by woman, for everything except procreation. You say intimacy would increase but surely that would happen on the mans terms, as the household is worked by the wife but still run by the man.

[warumnicht]

@MaskedSanity I know, I've asked him very similar questions a few times and he's tried to avoid them each time

[Anonymous]

I'm a stay at home mom. I completely hate it. I hate asking for money, I hate cleaning the home like a maid. I hate watching him sit in front of the t. v and then bitching when i ask him to do something. I hate being obligated for sex. I hate cooking meals that 50% of which end up in the trash. I hate his refusal to warm up leftover, matter fact he won't even eat leftover... I hate it. If this works for other women great. Soon as I get my appeal completed i'm going back to work, school.

Huge kicker. I don't even like children!!!

[_lovii_]

Yes, this is how you are supposed to think!

[DaddyRollingStone]

Given all of the negative responses to this, I don't think its crazy to say that you made all of this up lol

[Anno_Domini]

Why did you even get married?

[Queen_naki5]

You chose to have a child and you don't even like children?

[Mesonfielde]

""The woman you are the caregiver, you cook for the family and keep the house clean. This is job was awarded to women because their bodies are built to birth and feed children, so it seems appropiate that they would deal with things of that nature. ""

Blah blah this does not apply generally and this take basically says traditional patriarchal gender roles should exist so that women would be subservient to them and men would still have all the extra privileges and power

[DaddyRollingStone]

Muh privilege!

Do you seriously see no value in the female role in the family?

[Mesonfielde]

Many women just don't see staying at home sitting around cleaning stuff as "self-fulfillment". And I'm not that surprised about that, considering there's no reason why they ought to be the ones staying at home just because they have a vagina. What about stay-at-home dads, if that's the way they chose and their partner is okay with it, that's great!

That, and giving up a second source of income is bad for finances. Also, honestly, if I had to sit around at home all day every day, eventually i'd feel useless, haha. I can imagine that there'd be women who felt the same eventually.

I don't see value in the "female role". I see value in parenting. However, society makes it necessary for us to work in some way or another. I've seen the both-parents-working setup work pretty well by delegating the kids to their grandparents in the meantime, they didn't mind. When this is a possibility, that takes off a huge burden, and you don't actually need to pay delegate to a stranger.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Yes not all couples have the luxury of being able to stop working, I see that. There are reasons for that which I won't get into though. After taxes and bills and everything else I don't know how much more money you'd really be bringing in. You can do whatever you want, its your family but thats not the way I'd want mine to be.. obviously

[NedfromtheNed]

I happen to agree with you. I feel that more traditional gender roles are better.

And because ill get a lot of flak for agreeing i will say some more to you liberals or radical feminists.

- First of all, sexism is dead most of 1st world countries. There will always be some people ( Male or Female) that are sexist but there will also be some people that are racist.
- Secondly, sexism is dead in the corporate world PERIOD! A businesses goal is to make money, a business doesn't care what gender you are. A business wants to hire the best person for the job.
-Thirdly, there are different gender roles in different cultures. This is something that shouldn't be changed, if an individual doesn't like there role in the culture they can leave.
- Lastly, these things that i have said are TRUE.

[warumnicht]

So why must our culture have this. discrimination does still exist. It's only once the generations have moved on things will start settling to what they will be. I don't agree with this idea that it must be 50/50, men and women are different but why is it their job. If someone needs to stay at home why not all men instead of women. The last part is nothing to do with being liberal. Why should it be a woman's job anymore than a man's.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Because when there are no white collar jobs are you going to make your wife go mine coal? I'd hope you wouldn't at least.

[warumnicht]

because coal mining is still a large employer in Europe obviously. I'd have no problem with her working where she wanted to. This is a different matter however. What I'm asking is why is it the women that should stay at home?

[NedfromtheNed]

First of all discrimination, for the majority, is gone. Sure there may be some old farts or hicks that hate a certain race or gender but by making the generalization that society as a whole is discriminatory is wrong. But i believe you sort of hit on that, "discrimination does still exist. It's only once the generations have moved on things will start settling to what they will be. "
I also agree that a man can be a stay home dad i was simply saying that i believe that should be the woman jobe IF we are going to say someone needs to stay home with the kids. What i just said is a very conservative view.

[warumnicht]

Sorry I think I worded it badly but I agree completely with you on that. It is for the majority gone. There are a couple things that remain and a bit annoyingly but yes once generations die and whatever putting it bluntly things Will progress in whatever direction on their own.

See that still begs the question for me, why The women?

[NedfromtheNed]

Not exactly sure what you mean. Dont reply i've moved on from this thread.

[muspelhem_5]

You posted a sexist comment on a sexist thread and then claimed sexism is dead. Nice.

[DaddyRollingStone]

"h-having expectations are sexist!"

[NedfromtheNed]

I'm sorry your radically liberal ideas of sexism don't conform to reality.

[Urbantarzan]

But girls have professional ambitions too. It's unfair to keep them from achieving those.

Also, I think a woman who works would be an equal partner, know about the world and would be part of decision making. Isn't that better?

The kids can always spend time with parents in the evenings

[Slavanna]

I friggin' love the last point. I'm totally pre-programmed to cook and clean, that's what all female primates are made for. I actually saw a female chimpanzee dusting a rock while a male chimpanzee was drinking beer last time I went to a zoo.

I do appreciate that you're being respectful, though. I know I lack that virtue sometimes.

[DaddyRollingStone]

I've heard the "well animals do it too" justification plenty about other things. I get its not convincing for everyone but its just a plus on how I see it.

[_lovii_]

All woman aren't, we aren't born with a skill to cook food or clean. It's something you learn later. And that's one shitty zoo letting a chimpanzee drink beer...

[Slavanna]

@_lovii_ Are you implying that what I wrote in the first paragraph is not an accurate reflection of how the real world works? Oh my, my, and here I was thinking I was born knowing how to operate a frying pan...

[Anonymous]

Why would I be a house wife when I can just higher a maid? I don't like doing house hold chores, but I love to work. I'm learning how to build homes, and how to install electrical wire throughout the houses... It would suck if someone told me, "here is a broom, now sweep and have the house spotless before I get back". That's taking away my freedom, not to mention it is emotional suicide.
Sorry, No thank you.

[Folklore]

it is hire*

[Opinion Owner]

I'm sorry, I didn't notice my mistake. Thank you.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Maids are expensive and are not very trustworthy usually.

[Opinion Owner]

I can afford it and, it's not fair of you to deem someone as untrustworthy by their job title.