Do you think women who refuse to sign prenups are gold diggers?

[Anonymous]

If the partner wants it as a condition before marriage and the woman doesn't want to agree to prenuptial agreement.

Yes.

No.

[OlderAndWiser]

Many guys think they "know" what happens in divorce court because they read some horror stories spread by the MGTOW crowd, but their fears are grossly exaggerated. Unless you enter a relationship already owning substantial assets, there is probably no need for a prenuptial agreement. To many people, suggesting a prenuptial agreement implies that you are planning for your marriage to fail instead of succeed and they interpret that as a horrible sign of your level of commitment.

Divorce court in my state (Florida) is extremely fair to guys today. Alimony is rarely an issue unless you have been married 15+ years. Assets and debts acquired during the marriage are divided equally. If you want to know about the law on a subject, don't rely on G@G users for info (unless they are an attorney) and don't rely on horror stories that you read about in magazines or newspapers.

[bedroomdweller]

I'm not marrying, ever.

But lets say I propose (considering she spoke about marriage at some point), she says yes, and eventually I ask her to sign a prenup... If she refuses because I would be "expecting divorce", not because I am trying to be safe and protect my assets (even though logically, I wouldn't marry in the first place...), then I would tell her the marriage is off because women marry you to lock you in, for you to supposedly "show your commitment".

If a woman refuses just tell her well, by that logic then you don't trust my love either, so there shouldn't be any marriage whatsoever.

[Wonderer89]

I don't think it's as simple as "if you don't sign your a gold digger".
Money and assets can complicate things. On one hand if you love and trust the person why sign something for when your relationship finishes. On the other if you love and trust the one asking you should have no problem signing.
It depends on the person and where their insecurities lay. Personally I asked my husband for one as I had put up all of my money for property. We had conditions set that if he met the value of my investments the prenup will be dissolved, but in Australia even de facto relationships mean assets are pooled and split in the event of a seperation so marriage wasn't the deciding factor, just another document I asked him to sign and luckily he understood

[samhradh_leannan]

I don't know. Pre-nups are an awkward thing. They are important in some situations, but also, they are very unromantic and kind of depressing. So I understand the aversion to them 100%, but at the same time, I think they are a good thing and I might even ask for one when I get married.

[WalterRadio]

Marriage is a business partnership. Romance, surprisingly, has nothing to do with it.

[samhradh_leannan]

@WalterRadio I see what you're trying to say, but that's just one piece of what's happening. Romance absolutely has something to do with marriage. Perhaps not in the legal or practical sense, but romance is what brings couples together and is usually what makes them decide to get married in the first place. It's what people want out of their wedding and their marriage. So to argue that romance has nothing to do with marriage is like arguing that learning has nothing to do with school. You can learn without going to school. And you can also go to school without learning, but that usually means there's a problem. People usually want romance when they're getting married, and that makes it important.

[WalterRadio]

I stand by my statement. Marriage is a legal construct, a property contract. If you doubt it, then sit in on a divorce court and you will discover that the marriage had nothing to do with love, and is entirely about money.

People who are in love do not have to be married. People who are married do not have to be in love. But absent an explicit agreement that few have, people who are not married do not have a property contract. Those that are married do have a property contract.

I personally know a loving couple who have lived together for 8 years and are not married because their taxes will go up and financial aid for their (separate) children will go down.

I personally know a senior citizen couple who got married in order for one to benefit from the pension of the other, and are not intimate.

[samhradh_leannan]

@WalterRadio If marriage has nothing to do with love- nothing- then why do we act like it does? Sure, the legal and practical aspects of marriage are not all that romantic. But that doesn't mean marriage has nothing to do with love.

[WalterRadio]

"If marriage has nothing to do with love- nothing- then why do we act like it does?"
Because people like to believe in fairy tales.

[samhradh_leannan]

@WalterRadio What you're saying is true in terms of the sheer legal and practical aspects of marriage- and you're right, that is, technically, what actual marriage is all about. But there's no denying that our society DOES incorporate romance into marriage by choice. In most cases, a marriage is also a romantic relationship, which requires love, passion, and romance in order to thrive. And if that romantic relationship dwindles, the marriage itself comes to an end. So arguing that romance and marriage are unrelated is just silly. You may as well argue that the sky is green. Romance and marriage may not be one and the same, and they may not always go hand in hand 100% of the time. But most often, they are intimately connected.

[JulieXO]

Not necessarily, maybe she just doesn't agree with some of the terms. Or maybe if they plan for her to be a stay at home mom, she doesn't wanna be left with nothing if her husband dies.

[likitb4istickit]

Only an idiot would agree to get married in the first place since they are not required for a relationship. Prenups are not ironclad. Other than that f you need a 2nd contract to amend the shitty default terms of the first contract it's best to simply not sign the first to begin with.

[ThisDudeHere]

Not necessarily but in general yes. Of course one can assume that the thought of gold digging doesn't even occur to some women who are naturally kindhearted, so understandably they may assume that signing a prenup is equivalent to a man not trusting her.

But they must understand that marriage is a game with the odds stacked against the man in this day and age.

[FemWorship]

Agreed many are in the covert prostitution business
but others grew up in Disneyland and such would burst that love bubble.

I think both partners need to consider love on the rocks and what happens to them, cares for them should life's storms wreck a beautiful voyage; i. e. both should provide security to each other in that event IF love is really THE bond.

[TheLuckyPizzaDog]

Or just ill-informed or supremely naive. It's not a matter of trust, it's pragmatic. Protect your fucking assets. And because you literally never know what someone is like til after 10yrs of marriage.

[bedroomdweller]

Yup.

[Unit1]

Smart Lady =)

[blustar]

Maybe they are.

you never know, the person you're marrying right now might say they want nothing from you now but later on they might switch up that tone.

there's nothing worse than a woman's scorn

i wouldn't trust any woman not willing to sign a prenup

[Anonymous]

It's better to never ask to get married than to ask for a prenup. It's like saying you don't trust them or you don't believe it will really last. Either way, it seems like they should break up if it is asked for.
Just don't get married in the first place. It is more financially beneficial to stay legally single. You can still have a ceremony and legally change her last name and exchange rings. you don't need it to be legal in the government's view for it to mean something special.

[genericname85]

well i´d definitely want to do that, cause you can love a person all you want, if you lose the feelings, people change and they might end up fucking you over.. so this is not a sign of how much you love each other it´s a fundamental part of securing your own financial futur. if she doesn´t want to sign, she clearly has no interest in your wellbeing and is therefore not a good partner.

[genericname85]

i mean you don´t buy a health insurance because you are going to get sick or a car insurance because you wanna crash your car... so this is just like that in my opinion.

[Tdieseler]

wouldn't call it gold digging but women screw men over all the time and its worse because the justice/legal system supports it. A prenup is one way of a man protecting himself... lets call it a marriage condom.

[Anonymous]

Possibly, but not absolutely. But if a guy have any second thoughts about the lady he's with being adamantly against ever signing prenups, then he can always just cancel their wedding plans altogether and split. Otherwise, he can take his chances and find out and learn it the hard way later on after they are married on whether if the lady he's with is a gold digger for real or not.

[Lithium65]

The way I see it is, that if someone wants their spouse to sign a prenup it means their not 100% committed and are already thinking about if it doesn't work out.
It's the mentality that is appalling to me. Bc divorce shouldn't even be considered an option.

[WalterRadio]

Then the woman is in it for the money.

He should run. I know men who would have saved a lot of money by hiring escorts every week instead of getting married.

[likitb4istickit]

Yeah if I only knew that back then, would have saved me at least half a million, even with $400 a week in 2016 dollars spent on a hooker every weekend since my first marriage (1939). If only Backpage existed back then.

[Chief16]

In my opinion, yes. My wealth is mine, her wealth is hers. No matter what the circumstances with the exception that she's been with me since the beginning.
If she's so confident about love, she will sign the prenup. Not be a leech.

[stanhope5]

Women will never admit to being lazy sob losers that don't want to work because they feel they're too pretty. Them cunts will not admit it because it will make them look like a gold digger and that's bad

[madhatters4]

i don't think we can say that unequivocally. some women who don't want to sign one might. but same may not... we can't paint all women who don't want ot sign a pre-nup as one thing or another

[samhradh_leannan]

Very true. Some women might be gold diggers, but some might just find pre-nups depressing. Because they absolutely are. Doesn't mean they're not important though.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Let's face it, today marriage is an arrangement that is rigged against men in favor of women, and women are increasingly taking full advantage of that fact. Any man brave enough to enter into marriage should also be wise enough to insist on a prenup.

Any any woman who is not honest enough to understand why a man would require a prenup today is not marriage material. Period!

[Tdieseler]

MHO... right here.

[writing_essays]

Let a guy abandon me to raise 3 kids after he leaves me for a younger woman who provides him with better sex than me? Any guy who wants me to sign up a prenup will get dumped by me.

[samhradh_leannan]

I understand where you're coming from. But you can make sure that the prenup accounts for any children you may have. A prenup doesn't mean he gets to abandon you.

[WalterRadio]

@samhradh_leannan
Judges decide child support issues, not the parents. Sometimes the judge decides what the parents agree to, but that is not always the case.

[samhradh_leannan]

@WalterRadio Sure, but a prenup that prevents the wife from running off with half of her husband's wealth does is not going to override fair child support.

[WalterRadio]

@samhradh_leannan
You just contradicted yourself.

Prenuptual agreements do not always even mention children because judges can overrule any such provision.

[Cosytoasty]

Pre-nups have no legal standing in a lot of countries, they're worthless.

[MargaritaPeach]

I would sign a pre-nup as long as it included an infidelity clause. ;)

[Djaaaay]

Opinion owner. Good one ! I can't get over the cheaters down vote tho... that's funny !

[admles]

If she's not in it for my money, and doesn't plan on leaving me, she has no reason not to sign the prenup.

[Unit1]

If they do not sign it, then they really have a plan for divorcing.
Also then it's not all about "us" anymore.
So it's nearly inevitable.

Downvotes incoming at internet o clock *puts on tactical helmet and armor*