If your wife withholds sex, does the man have the right to step out for his needs?

[VanillaSalt]

Why?

Acceptable

Not acceptable

Updates

+1 y

A lot of women saying leave her. But depending on where you live divorce laws can be heartless. Leaving is usually a woman’s thing. 80% of all divorces are filled by women. That means 42% of all marriages ended in divorce filled by women if you’re curious. Men account for the other 9% of divorce. Why? Because when divorce happens, regardless the reason, almost always lead to the men having to pay out to her. Rarely do women have to do this. In most cases a man leaving is not the same as a woman.

Updates

+1 y

The main purpose of this question shifted from knowing your opinions to get you all to consider what leaving means for men. It’s very unbalanced and unfair so I hope you at least comprehend this but it don’t seem like women understand or even believe me. Your first response, unless you defend her then it’s your second, is to leave.

[Screenwriter]

OK. You clearly didn't do well in logic. If 42 percent of marriages that ended in divorce are filed by women, then 58 percent of marriages that end in divorce are filed by men, according to your stats. Eighty percent of divorces are FILED by women. But less than half those that are filed by women END in divorce. So it appears that women try to hang IN there.

That being said, this question has come up before. I don't know where this idea comes from, but no one can demand sex from their spouse. EXPECT sex, yes. Demand it, NO.

There are many reasons why a woman OR man might deny their spouse sex: illness, exhaustion, depression, alcoholism, lack of desire, a very different sex drive than the other spouse. Most of these issues can be solved or compromised on. Some can't.

Most normal people enjoy and look forward to sex with their spouses. There are some passive-agressive people who use sex as a weapon or a manipulation TOOL. This isn't right.

So, IF it's been far too long since sex has been in your marriage, I'd suggest first talking with your spouse, then suggesting therapy and if nothing works, get out of the marriage. There's no point "staying for the children" when either or both of you are miserable. The children will realize this and it won't be good for THEM.

Get help. If you go outside your marriage, it's no longer a marriage.

[VanillaSalt]

Where’s that 58% come from. I said 9% are men. The rate of divorce is 53%… 80% of that is filed by women. Let’s do the math together!

53%=0.53
80%=0.80
0.53x0.80=0.424=42.4%…
Now 53-42(rounded so you know)=11…oh look I did fuck up my math. Men actually file for 11% of divorces. My bad lol.

The other points I agree with but again. You scream leave but leaving disproportionately effects men not women.

[Browneye57]

^^This.
And quit whining about the cost of leaving. Why? BECAUSE IT'S WORTH IT!
I'm hear to tell you if your wife has shut down sexually - she has lost the vag-tingles for you - THEY AIN'T NEVER COMING BACK. EVER. I guarantee it. That's simply the way their brain works.
So whatever caused it, whatever reason in her little head caused her to go cold, you may never know. But that feeling changed the way she thinks, and she'll never have the hots for you again. EVER.

[Screenwriter]

@Browneye57 OK, Brownie, you KNOW I LOVE YA, but illness and menopause can affect women adversely sexually. There are treatments, hormonally. Also, medication, I forgot that one. If someone is depressed, there are antidepressants that KILL sex drive. Thyroid issues affect sex drive also. Many older women have thyroid problems: low function in the thyroid usually means low sexual functioning. A tiny little pill taken daily fixes THAT too.

BUT I DO AGREE that leaving a sexless marriage after trying EVERYTHING you can is the best course. Some people just aren't that sexual and after a certain amount of time, they're happy to be "friends" without benefits. This isn't healthy.

You know I'm an actual female, Brownie. I've had issues with depression and the medication alleviated my depression, but then I was depressed about not wanting to have sex. Some of us REMEMBER!!! There is no one way a woman's brain works. Women are individuals.

I think the bottom line is did this woman have a regular, good sex drive before some certain time. When did the sex stop? What seemed to be the reason? Have both of you addressed the base cause and sought help to get over it.

I've had some bouts with depression, but once the antidepressants have done their job, I get off of them due to my former experience. They're great for ONE thing, but not the other.

Do a 360 degree examination mentally and physically. Good luck!!!

[Browneye57]

Lots of excuses here, none mentioned by the asker. So perhaps we're missing a lot of pertinent detail.
And while you may THINK or FEEL women are individualistic, they all have being a woman as a commonality, and they are all VERY predictable. In fact, it's uncanny how predictable they are. It scares the living crap out of them when you finally get them figured out - guys are not supposed to know all that shit.

It has been purported that 45% or so of women over 40 are on some kind of antidepressants. This is NOT a good thing, not acceptable, and it a tell-tale how how poorly adapted they are. Lots of self-diagnosing, lots of victim claiming, lots of blaming on EVERYTHING but they themselves, what they did, chose, decided, thought, or otherwise put themselves where they are. Just lots of excuses.

So putting all of your whitewashing aside, the simple fact remains, if your wife shuts down sexually for you, IT'S NEVER COMING BACK. EVER. I guarantee it. You can claim every excuse or explanation in existence for why, but it's just not going to change.

Reminds me of the quip, "Well, she likes sex alright, just not with YOU." :)

[Screenwriter]

@Browneye57 Not whitewashing. Women in their 40s are approaching menopause and that alone is a giant change in hormones that keep women frisky, vibrant, interested in sex and all manner of things. Some women shut down sexually because of this change. That can be addressed medically. Depression can occur because of giant hormonal swings also. Lack of sleep from hot flashes... This time is disruptive for women and also for the men who love and live with them. Normal women address these changes and try to keep themselves healthy. Others may shut down like their hormones do.

I can't fathom why anyone would do that. But if it happens and the person refuses to face it, there are only two paths: stay or go.

[bamesjond0069]

I wasn't aware women couldnt have sex or please a man sexually just because they had low desire. Unlike a man a vagina can always be penetrated, whereas a penis can not always be made erect. Whether the woman wants sex for her own enjoyment or not, she is still capable of having sex to please her husband. If she does not she just doesn't care about his happiness anymore. So one should explore why the woman does not care to keep her husband happy anymore if one wants to fix the issue. In my experience its typically she does not respect him anymore. He has done something or is doing something that makes her look down on him. Usually its not holding himself to prior standards or letting someone walk all over him or not holding her to standards that he used to. Stuff like that. But the thing is the more down the rabbit hole one goes the more effort it will take to climb out usually and in some cases it can't be salvaged.

[Browneye57]

@bamesjond0069 - No guy worth his salt wants sympathy-sex or starfish-sex. What motivates men is the desire for them by his woman. Without that, nothing is going anywhere fast.

I've lived through this ENTIRE scenario - with an aging wife whom I've been with for over thirty years. NONE of this came to fruition - she's still the randy little minx I married all those years ago. Yes, she went through menopause. Yes she had hot flashes. Yes she had hormonal fluctuations. Did it debilitate her? NO.
Just more excuses here. Women shut down from their men becuase they no longer desire them, are no longer enamored by them, no longer get the 'hots' for them, are bored and loathing of him. Most of it is HIS fault - he doesn't treat her like his hot wife anymore, drinks and eats too much, and spends too much time watching tv sports. In other words, he's boring AF. So we see her doing the pool guy, the training coach, the younger single neighbor, and on ad infinitum.

Again, she likes sex alright... JUST NOT WITH YOU.

[bamesjond0069]

@Browneye57 yes but if she WANTS to please you its not the dead fish sex you're talking about. Like if my girl is horny and im tired, i want to please her so i relax a little and focus and get it up and once i stick it in im awake asf and banging her till the bed breaks. Same for women. She might not WANT sex but she can get herself in the mood for you if she still respects and desires you. If she doesn't she's not going to go out of her way to make it happen.

[Browneye57]

@bamesjond0069 - Seems reasonable. There is a thing called the covenant of marriage - sex is one of them. I'm not saying either party should do something they don't want to, but being open and willing goes a long ways. If the vajayjay is broken, how 'bout just a handy? Or a BJ?

[bamesjond0069]

@Browneye57 yes so say you take a very strict view of stepping out on a wife. The covenant of marriage doesn't say anything about treating her with all the other privledges. I don't know why people think sex is separate from any other part of marriage. If she can deny sex, why is it so taboo to deny say dates? Just spend your money on a vacation with the boys, you never promised to financially make sure she drives that new car she wants leased or to spend lots of time and effort with her. Why buy her flowers ever again? Why even come home after work when you can buy a new motorcycle? I just mean if your going to be treated in the "i dont owe you shit" way why is it so taboo for a man to return the favor? I mean its relatively equivalent. Its the nice things that are not required yet expected from a marriage.

[Screenwriter]

@bamesjond0069 Back to the numbers... If 80 percent of divorces are filed by women, 20 percent are filed by men. The 9 percent number has nothing to do with math. You were doing an equivalency, which doesn't give you the weird subtraction you were doing. 53 out of 100 is equivalent to 42.4 out of 80. WHich is neither here nor there.

The point is 20 percent of men file for divorce. NOT 9 % or 11%... You need a NUMBER to do percentages OF.

If 300,000 people filed for divorce in 2020, then you have a number to get 20% of it. That would mean 60K men filed, while 240K women filed. 20% vs. 80 %. That 9 and 11 percent and how you arrived at them makes no mathematical sense... ratio and proportion aren't difficult. But you fell off the R&P wagon with whatever it is you thought you were doing...

[bamesjond0069]

@Screenwriter huh what up? I didn't do any math. Wrong person.

[Burrblebee]

This is my personal opinion based on my experiences. If your wife thinks her pussy lives on a pedestal, she needs that fucker dick slapped back to reality. "The power of the pussy" isn't about using it AGAINST a partner. There are women that have the belief that trying to control a partner with sex is ok and there are men with these women who simply "accept" it while being unhappy, unsatisfied, indulging on ridiculous amounts of porn, turning to other attention sources, etc. And when they finally get to have sex, I can only imagine, it's like fucking a dead chimp. But I do not believe in betrayal or disloyalty and it's unacceptable on either side for ANY reason. You either address the problem, accept it as "it is what it is", or leave the relationship. Sorry for such a long comment

[VanillaSalt]

I agree. The problem is leaving the relationship isn’t the same for men and women. If any party leaves men tend to hang too party for everything from alimony to her lawyer fees.

It’s nice to always have an out but I don’t believe men have the same outs women do but they seem to either think we do or don’t care.

[Screenwriter]

Men DO have loads of outs.

The fact that men remarry and repartner far more often than the women they leave or who leave them IS the case in point.

So, though men often might have to pay more money, they almost ALWAYS make more money than the woman their partnered with. And they have far more women to choose from.

I'll mention a cousin. He's 52. Was married and had four children. Oldest 30. Divorced and had relationships with three other women he never married, and had children with THEM. Then three years ago, married a woman 20 years his junior and has with her. He's had, at least, five affairs and eight children. He has a well paying job and has had it for a long time. He's paid child support, though the rest of his children, except his latest, are done with high school.

He's had four new children in the past 16 years. That means a 9-month pregnancy and a 3-month post-partum period, ideally.

[Screenwriter]

So a year when work could be interrupted by pregnancy or PREVENTED by pregnancy, every three years. A UPS driver, which is what he is, can't be pregnant and jumping in and out of a van or lifting heavy loads for nine months, or the three months afterward when an infant is newborn and needs constant care and can't be housed in childcare centers.

Because the lion's share of child care had ALWAYS been dumped on women, women have financial and work limitations that men don't. They have physical limitations too. And we all know dirty, physically strenuous jobs are higher paid than office work, though office work is just as valuable. But because women occupy 99% of that occupation, men discount its value.

So don't go whining about how awful men have it. Both sexes have difficulty navigating life, love and work for DIFFERENT reasons. Patriarchy is one of them. Sexism another. Sure there are lazy women who schlepp along sucking up alimony and child support. But most women want to make good lives for their children and aren't afraid of work and enjoy having jobs they're competent at.

[Screenwriter]

Some men choose the wrong women. But more often than not, they move along quickly and choose another, younger wrong woman and another and their kids grow up without them, except as paychecks. It's a poor outcome. There are better ones that couples can negotiate.

Fathering children willy nilly is stupid. I wish courts pressed men to participate in their children's lives instead of paying child support. Offset money with TIME with their children. There would be happier kids AND fathers...

There might be a few women who've lived like he has. But I doubt it since women have to BE pregnant. They can't simply PAY child support to a man who has and cares for the children she's "mothered." This cousin paid child support. But he hasn't been present in the lives of the three children he's fathered in different cities than his hometown.

No woman has that choice. Her pregnancies force her out of the job market and force her to have to seek child care in order to keep working. She has to physically recover from a pregnancy too.

[VanillaSalt]

She chose pregnancy though… your body your choice right? You k ow what’s funny I agree with most everything you said except for key points. I’ve had 4 sex partners and 3 long term relationships in my life. Why have I not jumped from relationship to relationship like you insist guys do? I want to be a good husband father and hard worker but I’m not good enough for that. Never knew a man in my family to cheat but most of the women have. My mother and my ex’s. And like I said I agree with most of what you say how things are… until they aren’t. Men make more money yes but women generally won’t date a man with less drive than them so 90% of the time he will make more money… and what about when the father WANTS shared or primary custody but then can’t because courts biasely give them to the mother? And in most other parts of the world divorce is a pain in the ass but here in America it’s streamlined. It’s not supposed to be easy your supposed to work through your problems. Yet 80% of divorces are women showing that women give up quicker then men. All these easy fixes you say men have like good jobs are now being taken by unqualified women and the feminists push to put women first. Do you know how much harder it is for a man to get scholarships to college now? Literally it’s in the 60-70% range in favor of women. And jobs have diversity quotas now so the man more qualified for the job is overlooked for the corner whore looking to have a career until they decide to have a kid.

[VanillaSalt]

Also it’s not men pay MORE money it’s men pay all the money. 90% of the time it’s men paying alimony that mean THEY pay not both of you pay. And did you just say men have more partner options? Dear god please stop. You are without a doubt the dumbest woman I’ve ever met if you really believe that. You women choose wrong it’s not men choosing wrong it’s women. You CHOOSE who you go home with and pursue! A man can’t sleep around without your permission you fool! You have to consent for him to sleep with you…

And going back to divorce. Marriage is for support because life’s a bitch. It’s not supposed to be easy after marriage! You should suffer after divorce! It gives women a reason to actually try and make it work. They get stability and men get support. But that’s unacceptable for you women these days. And to be clear… your saying the 8 hour day in the office should be paid and treated the same as 8 hours building a road or roofing? Try it. Just 5 mins.

Cry patriarchy but you can’t even define the patriarchy so don’t give me cry baby shit about patriarchy. No. The children belong to the mother. She gets ALL the choice in having them right? Either yes or abortion but either way it’s her choice alone. I have views very different then this shitty world we live in and agree again for the 100th time with most of what you say in regards to unique challenges but you women wanna lessen them challenges for women making divorce less costly but maintaining alimony and child support. I refuse to give you even a crumb as long as you already hold all the privilege. Also curious… if you think men have such an easy time replacing women why is it 80% of divorce is filled by women?

[Screenwriter]

I don't know why 80 percent of divorces are FILED by women. There is only a 53 percent divorce rate. So all of those filings DO NOT go through. Perhaps the couples aren't suited to each other.

Longterm coupling usually requires extensive knowledge of the other. Meaning, people should know each other 2 to 5 years before finally marrying. Do you think most people who marry know each other that long? I see people on GAG who've gone to bed with people they've known after ONE date. People who say they love each other after three months. People who're distressed because after a year of marriage their partner no longer has interest in having sex with them.

The statistics I've read are this: It takes six months to 2 years for people to drop "honeymoon" behavior. That means people are putting their best foot forward and not being their "real" selves.

[Screenwriter]

So, a partner could offer regular sex for the "honeymoon." Then fall into their ordinary pattern afterward. Not ACTUALLY WANTING the honeymoon sex levels any longer, because they never really wanted them to begin with. You were new. The relationship was new. It was all exciting.

When the newness/honeymoon wore off, it was time to be real. Once a month. Once every other month. A few times a year... So, people end up in these situations because they hadn't fallen into a real relationship with a longterm partner. They didn't find out enough by being patient.

Good relationships take TIME and investment. The sex like rabbits period has to wear off for someone to see what the other partner's actual drive is. You have to sit around burping and farting and stinking from the gym to see what you'll tolerate from the other. You have to know if you HATE Marcy's or Fred's cooking or tastes in food, clothes, style, friends. You've got to realize that Bob will NEVER go to the gym again now that you're in a regular relationship, and Gina doesn't care if she's gained 50 pounds and looks like a horse.

Some of the former is why people divorce. They never got to know each other well enough and lurched into the marriage too soon. It's very common because people are dying for intimacy and connection.

[Screenwriter]

don't see the reason for alimony, myself. Why should women get to sit on their butts. Child support, sure, but get a job. Loads of college educated women are on the alimony train. That needs to stop. But if the woman does the lion's share of the child care, then men DO have to pay. I think 50/50 custody should be the NORM. The courts figure awards on what the current norms are. Until men demand changes based on what their former spouses are ABLE to do workwise, not what they DID do during the marriage: If a woman is degreed or has worked in a field for some time, but took time off to stay home while the husband worked, the situation has changed and she needs to get back to work. Short periods of alimony, 3 to 6 months if the woman's been out of the workforce for some years, might be reasonable. But FOREVER. That's crazy. And there are men who might prefer to stay home and child rear. If the women have the money, have them pay.
I agree that equity is not happening now. But take into account salary and workforce differences. That's the case there.

[Screenwriter]

And I'm not saying how physically hard a job is. Of course roofers get paid more because of the physical risks and strain their jobs entail. Just like those highway sign workers get paid more, and street repair and infrastructure workers, and plumbers, electricians and HVAC people get paid more. But women would not NEED alimony if their work was paid more eqitably. Office assistants are as necessary as roofers. They should not be ghettoized because it's a majority female, indoor job. Just as hot, dirty work that takes no brainpower to perform shouldn't be lionized as so tough. Sure it's PHYSICALLY draining. But if that billing clerk couldn't alphabetize and keep her shit organized, that construction worker would be missbilled, overcharged, etc. They are both jobs that need to be DONE WELL and paid well. Garbage workers too. Same thing. But grocery clerks too. Neither require brainpower. One's inside, the other's outside and dirty. Take away ALL the grocery clerks and see how long those lines are in the stores. Take away the garbage crews and see how miserable the cities are... Each job is important. But physical jobs aren't MORE important. They're just physically harder.

It's sexism. Women could roof if there were roofing companies that purposely set about hiring more women. There are many trades that are seeking women workers: hvac, electrician and plumbers. Saw this on "This Old House." It's like STEM: Women are actively being sought for these careers, so more are entering. Same with medical school.. My dermatologist is a woman I've been seeing for years. But female doctors are still in the minority. And certain sections: Psychiatry, neurology, surgery have almost no women.

Sexism cuts BOTH ways. It keeps people out and keeps the power on the male side. Therefore, those who are CONSIDERED economically and socially POWERLESS, are GIFTED in the case of Divorce.

[Screenwriter]

Most men re enter longterm relationships within two years. No matter WHAT age they are. Women often NEVER enter a subsequent relationshp or wait double or triple that time. And the reason? Women have limited childbearing years and men regualrly marry women 4 to 6 years younger than them. Many far older men marry women at least 20 years younger than them and start NEW families and abandon care of the "first" families. This is due to patriarchy. It's because they're MEN and because they can.

Women run away from familiies and children too. But the percentage of the time? Less than 5-10 percent. Having a child grow and deliver from your body usually creates a permanent, loving bond. Men don't experience this PHYSICALLY (there's that word again!!), but most do EMOTIONALLY. This is just as important.

[Screenwriter]

But, you are determined to say that men have ALL the disadvantages and no one had ALL of anything. There are financial disadvantages and emotional ones. There is a combination of this for both men AND women. It errs on the side of fianancial disadvantage and emotional disadvantage for men, but it is the SAME for women. If a woman is KEPT even after her marriage ends, this is a financial disadvantage. She will never have the same career impetus if she remains out of the workforce. As workers age they get more financial wherewithal. If women never re enter the workforce or enter it at all they will never gain this. It's foolish to "punish" a man by taking his money if you no longer love him or have a relationship with him. But revenge poisons people.

The current setup helps almost no one. I agree with that. But we have to agree to disagree. I come to this from my side of the mountain. I had a 50 50 custody arrangement with child support and I worked. But the childsupport was a very small amount and when I asked for 20 dollars more per month when our son became a teen, my former spouse threatened a court case. I didn't have the money to go to court and he DID and he had a lawyer. So my son was denied 240 extra dollars a year for four years when I was getting 120 dollars a month for him. THIS IS THE KIND OF SHIT that's outrageous. My ex had long moved on with another woman. Had I? No. I did most of the child care and car shuttling and went to all the PTA and teacher meetings. Even though I only had half custody. He was angry that his 70 thousand job a year suffered a 1450 dollar loss to support his son! It's stupid shit like this that's horrible. So I rest whatever case it is that I have. you don't agree. I can't persuade you to even consider what I'm saying. I've lived this, so I think I have a valid point. Good luck with everything.

[VanillaSalt]

Why would anyone work a harder job if they could get paid the same for an easier job? Who would be a roofer if they could get paid to sit in the ac on the phone shuffling paperwork. You talk about the office assistant being able to alphabetize like it’s some special skill. You learn that when learning to read. An electrician takes years of learning and hard work. A woman will never be as effective as the average man in such a job. It’s not just connect this wire here. You start as a gopher grabbing tools and holding lights but your also the real manual labor digging the ditches and such. Sometimes by hand. Can you do that? Even if you can can you do it as fast as me? Ability, risk, productivity, quality, experience, and even possible lawsuits need to be considered when hiring and paying employees.

And your right. Women hit the wall and men don’t want or need them anymore. Sorry biology’s such a sexist pig but that’s how it is. Maybe you should consider your options before filing them divorce papers. Again 80% of divorce is women. You can’t complain about rates of remarriage when your the one that filed the divorce. She abandoned him if she filed sorry to say when you choose divorce you don’t have any value to me anymore. It was her choice to divorce and your actually complaining about the consequences of her choice?

I never one said men have all the disadvantage. Don’t put your words in my mouth unless you wanna be slapped for lying. I said when it comes to marriage specifically women have more and better outs then men. Reread my original statement and apologize.

[YOLOIFIC]

Context, we talking about a night, a week, a month, a year? Also why? Are they not in the mood? Trying to force the partner to give them or stop doing something against their will?


Civilly infidelity is going to hurt you if there ever is a divorce. That said using sex as a weapon to hurt and manipulate your partner is abusive and predatory too. Wouldn’t blame someone who was unfaithful in an abusive relationship but still my advice would be divorce from the abuser not cheating on them. Granted depending on the severity of the abuse leaving might not be an option in all situations.

[Dchrls78104]

No. It is wrong to condemn someone to a sexless marriage; sex is part of marriage, like it or not, and if you aren't comfortable with the idea of having sex with someone you shouldn't have married the person in the first place (1 Corinthians 7:4,5). Cheating on your spouse for that reason, however, is hardly the answer. Besides being wrong and immoral (adultery), it won't really fix matters or improve anything. It will simply create new problems for all concerned and complicate existing ones (Deuteronomy 7:15; Hebrews 13:4).

[VanillaSalt]

Damn man throw that bible at me… feel like I’m going to hell now lmao. But I agree..

The problem is marriage isn’t what it used to be. For better or worse in sickness and in health until death do us part is, to a majority of people, bullshit.

[Dchrls78104]

That's because most people approach marriage, relationships, and sex like a 5 year old playing with a loaded gun.

[VanillaSalt]

Lmao your insane. I wouldn’t marry the prefect woman with gods backing… fact is if she changes her mind 5 years from now she has an immediate out and takes half my life with her… meanwhile if she cheats I’m still on the hook for alimony.

[aWes0MeNeSs]

As in cheating? No, I think he should just leave if it is a deal breaker.

[VanillaSalt]

If? Would you consider a sexless marriage a deal breaker? Women say we’re not men without committing then we’re not allowed to indulge in other women and now she can withdraw her intimacy? There is no if if ya ask me.

[Neyila]

Why is she withholding sex?

[VanillaSalt]

I’m not so much worried about the reasons as the fact is being withheld. Not for like her period or something simple but long term like months. Though the reasons change how you feel of sex is that important to you then it probably shouldn’t change your decision.

[aWes0MeNeSs]

I'm actually asexual and would not enter a relationship for this exact reason, because I do think it's unfair to put someone in a sexless relationship who does not want to be in one. However, two wrongs do not make a right and it's just as easy to leave than to cheat. I've never seen a valid excuse for cheating in my life.

[VanillaSalt]

She caused it by not wanting sex whatever the reason. But because you think cheating a wrong he should take a hit either in his marriage or his wallet instead of cheating? Am I understanding?

[aWes0MeNeSs]

I'm saying he should leave if it's so bad he's looking to cheat. I don't understand what's so hard for so many people to understand that it's always better to leave than it is to cheat, but I guess most people like to have their cake and eat it too, or simply can't stand to possibly be alone for any length of time.

Hopefully what could prevent this situation altogether is good communication, and making sure you're on the same page before getting married. If the woman out of the blue starts withholding sex, communicate about it. If that doesn't solve anything and it's a deal breaker, it's probably time to leave.

[VanillaSalt]

So you know. Depending in the state of the man leaves even if she’s withholding sex she can take alimony… do you still support this choice?

[aWes0MeNeSs]

This is why I think getting married is generally a bad idea...

[VanillaSalt]

Agree there. However a man looking for a real relationship generally does not have the option to say he don’t want marriage. Women will immediately look the other way further limiting choices. Women maintain too much power in dating and society. I think we’re moving away from a gynocentric society.

[ZackBan]

No cheating is cheating no justification is valid.

That being said "withholding sex" is not a normal acceptable thing.
Sure there are reasons why it would be needed but unless it's health related physical or mental this shouldn't be something to accept if she does it whenever you say no to her or whenever she wants something.

However your problem is within the closed doors of your marrage. Talk to her see what can be done. But if she refuses to budge and the reason is unreasonable then let her know that you'll find it elsewhere that should get a reaction

[Browneye57]

No. You committed to her. IT's time for a sit-down come-to-jesus talk. Have you done that? Why is she withholding sex?

Now, you do understand that if your wife no longer has the hots for you, it's likely never coming back. Are you still the stud she fell in love with? Are you still strong and handsome? Good looking and rich? You still give her the love and attention you always did? Cuz if so, tell us what changed her mind. We are dying to know.

If you've gotten fat and lazy, spend too much time on the sofa playing video games or watching football, then it's time to up your game. Hit the gym, HARD, and do a man-makeover. She'll either fall back in love with you, or you'll be ready for the next woman in your life after you divorce her.

[Anonymous]

I believe its unacceptable in all terms for a man to go cheat on his wife for her not giving him sex. Why is she withholding the sex is something he should be asking her instead. My wife has done that to me numerous occasions just for me to find out she was feeling sick, on her period or was mad at me for doing something dumb, such as drinking. Perhaps him masturbating to her photos would be okay. But im sure thatd get a negative response if she finds out. It has to do with it making the woman insecure about herself, if she can't please you, then what can she do? Etc.

[VanillaSalt]

What if it’s for a long time. And just cause she’s sick does that mean his needs are just passed over acceptably?

[bamesjond0069]

I always tell girls i date if you even hint at witholding sex im going to first get forceful. If you dont give in at that point im going to step out. And im hot i can do it easy easy.

And if i step out, im a very masculine man, but if you're not giving it you're not getting my privledges the stuff a traditional man does.

Ie im not holding the door or paying the bills or doing a damn thing and her ass is the one sleeping on the couch because i just won't have any physical intimacy with someone whos not fucking me and its my house.

If it continued more than like a day id just dump her. I can do better. All the girls I've dated typically can't keep their hands off me. So wtf am i going to deal w that shit? No.

[YOLOIFIC]

Holy rapist Batman. No mean no!

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC um try reading. They ofc can say no. Ill be out with someone else so they can say it 50x loudly if they like too. I dont have to hear it.

[YOLOIFIC]

I did read, your a sexual predator and abusive partner.

Also have extremity narrow minded views of gender roles and courtship.

[YOLOIFIC]

If you want a sexy doll buy one, but a woman has the right to say no and treating her like trash for saying no is horrible. That’s coercive which is legally rape.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC yes because sexuality is very narrow. Men have a penis and testosterone and women have a vagina. Its actually quite easy to make relationships work when people actually make serving their spouse a priority. Its super simple. I personally never had any real issues and mostly had it on easy street from 16 to 34. Always had a cute nice fun and pleasing girlfriend. Always been told that i treat them like a princess and had women fight over me. I must be doing something right.

[YOLOIFIC]

Sounds like projection to me, but don’t know. Still not married at 34 but every woman fights over you and says you treat them like a princess?

Possible but not plausible. More reasonable is they date you for a few days, realize you’re a sexual predator than leave.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC so being black mailed into not leaving a relationship is not abuse? 🙃 get your story straight. I have every right to dump any girl at any time i see fit. Dumping a girl is not abuse. Wtf?

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC well you're the one all butthurt. I just post on here for fun. Im currently in a relationship for 5 months. thank you for asking.

[YOLOIFIC]

I agree ending a relationship is NOT abuse, the threat of ending a relationship of try don’t have sex with you is abuse AND rape.

Nice try, but your spin game is weak friend.

[YOLOIFIC]

if they* not of try

My bad, stupid autocorrect

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC but if i break up with her the instant she says no and then she jumps my bones then why would i break up with her? You sound like you spend too much time on a computer and not enough time with a woman.

[YOLOIFIC]

You mean the moment you rape her? Yes, rapists don’t leave their victims.

Plus again, if you didn’t coerce her she wouldn’t of had sex with you in the first place.

The ad hominem simply shows you know I’m right. Thanks.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC so its never ok to break up with a woman for not having sex with you? Wtf kind of planet do you live on? Simp-world? Unlike you i am a self respecting man, i only date women who keep me sexually satisfied, and never date women who dont keep me sexually satisfied. Quite easy. Most women have no issues with such a thing. Personally i never met one woman with an issue with that as i usually put it forth on the first date.

[YOLOIFIC]

Asked and answered, you can break up with anyone for any reason.

You’re not breaking up with anyone, you’re using the threat of breaking up with them to force them to unwilling have sex with you which is literally the legal definition of rape.

If you can’t read find a tutor. 👋

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC you mean communication is rape? If i just ghost my girlfriend this is good and respecting her. Communicating and saying im not happy and not going to accept not having sex in a relationship and if she agrees and wants to fix the problem it is rape and not respecting to her. Tbh i think you have a serious mental defect. Communication does not make the situation rape. No wonder everyone is just ghosting everyone... afraid of scary word rape.

[YOLOIFIC]

No, stop lying about what was stated. Coercion is rape, communication isn’t always coercion. But coercion is communicated.

[YOLOIFIC]

Nothing your saying implies consent, you’re just backtracking your original opinion in the face of criticism.

You say, “I’m leaving” not rape that’s communication.

You say, “I’m leaving if you don’t have sex with me.” That’s coercion which is rape and not just communication.

[YOLOIFIC]

You are entitled to your opinion but I don’t think the law or any rational third party would argue with your option making it invalid.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC thats not the legal definition of rape at all. Someone looked at the penal code online and is now an expert lawyer. Lmfao. So lets go with it. So you say im leaving and she begs "why why are you leaving please tell me why ill do anything if you won't leave" so now explaining your unhappiness makes it rape? Or no?

[YOLOIFIC]

You show me a single state where coercion isn’t rape and I’ll recant. You’re wrong and you know you’re wrong because all you can do is hurl personal attacks you can’t refute the facts.

“I always tell girls i date if you even hint at witholding sex im going to first get forceful. If you dont give in at that point im going to step out. And im hot i can do it easy easy.”

That’s what you said, you tell every person you date they will have sex with you or you will leave. At that point if they have sex you’ve legally committed rape if they felt coerced to have sex with you to continue the relationship when they didn’t want to.

Take this to your local DA and have them PM me it’s not rape. I’ll wait. You won’t cuss you know you’re a serial rapist. SMH

[YOLOIFIC]

You cannot have consent with coercion involved. Just like you can’t legally sign a contract or legal document if you’re being coerced.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC coercion has to meet certain standards. For example holding a gun to their head being an obvious one. Taking normal legal actions is not usually considered coercion unless you enter the realm of black mail or extortion (which also has its own legal definition so dont bother going there)... or wouldn't every single thing you do be coercion? What if i say i will only share my sandwich with you if you lend me a tshirt. Did i coerce you because your hungry? I forced you to lend me a tshirt? That kind of "coercion" might make sense in your head and even technically be true but its not legally true.

[YOLOIFIC]

It’s not normal or legal to tell someone you’ve just started dating if you even think about withholding sex I’m leaving.

That’s is the legal standard of coercion if they otherwise wouldn’t of had sex with you.

You’re again wrong, but like I said feel free to take this to your local DA and prove me wrong. I’m waiting.

[YOLOIFIC]

Your consulting sex like bartering a t-shirt for a sandwich only further proves you’re raping women.

Her vagina isn’t a commodity you can haggle over. Especially using withholding of affection to force them to do something they’re not comfortable with doing.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC hmm so you find prenups coerced and illegal as well? Using a relationship and the idea of marriage as coercion to sign away rights. Hmm. Courts have ruled these are legal. When they are not its typically for misrepresentation ie the man says it means nothing just sign it 2 days before the wedding... yeah thats often not always enforced but its absolutely legal to refuse marriage and use feelings and relationship to have legal rights signed away.

[YOLOIFIC]

No prenup says you must have sex or the marriage ends retard. SMH

[YOLOIFIC]

Also FYI marriage NEVER confers a right to have sex with someone in any civilized nation.

[YOLOIFIC]

Again showing you’re a serial rapist that thinks you’re entitled to sex.

[bamesjond0069]

@YOLOIFIC you completely avoided the question just to basically repeat the word rapist over and over. you're obviously to emotional to discuss the issue. Good luck.

[YOLOIFIC]

You have the right to believe that but again the written record doesn’t support your point of view rationally if observed by an impartial third party in my opinion.

Still let me know how that meeting with the DA is to prove me wrong.

[VanillaSalt]

Actually yolo no can mean yes… my ex was like that… until one time she was serious. Then we had to have a long chat and quiet moment.

[The-Wise-Phoenix]

If we are talking about a girlfriend that is withholding sex I would consider that grounds for ending the relationship immediately.
I wouldn't play games sneaking around with other women.
It's important to understand that women like sex just as much as men do.
She is not tired , she is not stressed out and there is nothing wrong with her hormones.
If a woman is withholding sex it says she doesn't care about you let alone love you.

[Anonymous]

If it's because of a physical disability like an injury or something like that then absolutely don't cheat, but if she is trying to fuck you over, you have every genetic right to do it. People will get on the moral high horse and say no, but it is your genetic programming to spread your seed. And plus if she's not having sex with you is she having sex with someone else? Or has she lost genuine desire for you and there is no hope anyway? Honestly the best thing is probably too divorce and move on but definitely don't give her the power.

[ChrisMaster69]

Nope that’s cheating.

it’s also a green light for fucking around while wife is pregnant.

a guy has an accident, breaks his leg and arm and is unable to have sex with his wife.

his wife can go out looking for it?

A guy working abroad for 6 months plus, his wife can go looking for sex yes?

[VanillaSalt]

To be clear with a broken arm and leg I’m still having sex lmao… I had sex when I broke my foot… I remember because she kicked it by accident the bitch XD.

Furthermore pregnancy sex is fucking hot. She’ll love me more then and women get super horny when pregnant.

But I understand. The main point behind it is if your needs are not met what are acceptable options?

[ChrisMaster69]

@VanillaSalt you get on with life.

For clarity on this situation.

A mate of mine lost his bits and leg out in Afghan

Because they had stored his sperm, him and his wife have a child.

He cannot have sex.

His girlfriend and then wife has stayed with him.

Now rethink your question and the entire thing.

It’s cheating unless you have permission. Without the Girl giving you Permission, which you have to ask for, it’s cheating.

[VanillaSalt]

Look your buddies a hero. But even still taking his situation into account… I don’t think ide commit or stay committed to such an injury if my girl got them. It’s horrible to say but at the same time I’m not yet prepared to give up sex completely. I want an equal partner not someone that can’t be 50%. Again your buddies a hero but such a life would ware me down over time until I was just an unpleasant person.

[ChrisMaster69]

@VanillaSalt so saying you where in a car accident, your wife paralysed.

You would just cheat on her?

[VanillaSalt]

I’m saying it’s possible. I haven’t met anyone I give enough of a damn about to abandon my needs completely for theirs… Hell I’ve never even felt love for another person so I’m not sure I’m capable of such feelings for another human.

[Angela_S]

The only time I ever tried doing that, my very erect boyfriend got out of bed, jerked off in front of me while laughing, then went and slept in the spare room. I didn't try it again.

[Anonymous]

A woman is supposed to love her husband (and vice versa, obviously) in sickness and health, for richer and poorer etc... Nowhere in the vows does it say "but it's totally okay to withold sex from him"

So if she breaks her vows to him, he can break his vows to her. Fair is fair.

[zariahdp]

Okay so when she goes and fuck someone else too don't feel about bad about it remember two can play that game!

[Opinion Owner]

@zariahdp I don't see why he would care. When she starts witholding the pussy, the marriage is over, she nuked it. She can fuck whoever the hell she wants at that point.

[zariahdp]

But if not receiving sex from your wife and it's an issues may be your the problem! Women do shit for a reason

[Opinion Owner]

@zariahdp If there's a problem - you use WORDS and try to resolve it. You don't immediately start withholding sex.

[Juxtapose]

Well the marriage is already dead at that point so may as well stomp on its corpse before you bury it. She's probably already cheating at that point and that's the reason why she's not fucking you anyway.

Cheating is 100% justified if she is deliberately withholding sex as some kind of bullshit punishment.

[SapioLuna]

She must not be sexually attracted anymore…bet something is distracting her. Could be a problem with your relationship or external.

[TommyMountainFigure]

The vows regarding marriage are "For better or for worse" If you take marriage seriously, then you fix whatever is wrong or divorce. Cheating isn't a viable option. At least not for me!

[VanillaSalt]

Until death do us part… 53% divorce rate… a lot of people don’t seem to believe in your point.

The idea of marriage is beautiful the truth about it is bullshit.

[RoyalGuy_PRO]

Well, if the request is reasonable, the wife is responsible for satisfying sexual needs so is the husband. Even after a lot of convincing if she does not revert, try explaining and going ahead with sleeping out

[Anonymous]

Sleeping with someone else? No way (unless you're poly but if you put a ring on it than I doubt it)
Jerking off? Go crazy bro

[VanillaSalt]

Then what do I have her for? If it was just jerking out then a woman’s unnecessary.

[genericname85]

the man has a right to divorce the girl for that reason. and only then is he allowed to get sex elsewhere. unless the wife consents to him getting sex elsewhere within the marriage.

[MCheetah]

No. Cheating is never right. Just get a divorce, if she hates you that much.

[spartan55]

I don't think so. I think he has the right to divorce her ass, and would be wise to do so.

[Anonymous]

Take her to court. The law says a woman must have sex with her husband or go to jail.

[VanillaSalt]

What law?

[VanillaSalt]

Or are you being sarcastic? If you for real ima say there is no such law if your sarcastic fuck you a contract is a contract.

[Anonymous]

Yes, She doesn't own him and if she is breaking the marital vows then he has nothing tying him to her anymore. He should fuck her sister if she has one

[VanillaSalt]

Lmao I love this answer. Probably wouldn’t do it but love the revenge.

[Opinion Owner]

It should say that in the bible. Go ahead and check. It's probably someplace in the back

[Yourfriend2021]

Just get a divorce, it's over, there's no more intimacy.

[friendzoned4life]

Yes you are allowed to end it but only when you have had sex before and its been a long time

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

Women only hind the opinion they do so they can have a perceived power over men.

[exitseven]

No, Till death do u part was the deal

[Neyila]

No, unless granted permission by your wife.

[VanillaSalt]

So if she’s withholding sex i have to get her permission to get sex elsewhere?

[Neyila]

Yes, because you're in a committed marriage and not in an ethical open relationship. Having sex with someone else without her knowledge is essentially cheating.

[VanillaSalt]

And denying sex is abuse.

[VanillaSalt]

I know what you’ll say… it’s her body men aren’t owed sex… I agree however… if you standing in someone’s property and they told you to leave but all your doing is breathing should they be able to shoot you? You have the right to breath and your not doing anything else. But your on third property. Marriage is like that sure you don’t owe sexual to your husband whenever they want it your not some toy but sex is part of the deal when the deals made so your expected to perform at some point.

[Neyila]

There seems to be a breakdown in communication then. Why'd you marry her knowing she withheld sex? Communicate your needs like adults. NOTHING appropriates cheating.

[VanillaSalt]

Women are allowed to change their minds and withdraw consent at anytime right… so maybe they do isn’t know she’d be like this.

[EmmaMary]

Possibly, but only with her permission/blessings.

[VanillaSalt]

So if she’s withholding sex i have to get her permission to get sex elsewhere?

[TallAndNerdy]

If you mean cheating then no

[TacosRAwesome]

If she's doing it to be a dick then yes.

[Joshua0213]

If you talk about it yeah