Do you think it is men's fault that women pretend so much?

[foxsquirrell]

Its like for example the market for labor. Trends are created. If firms start giving certain perks to let us say accountants, then a firm who wants to employ an accountant has to give those perks also or else accountants will go to work with other firms where they are offering a better package.

Similarly if men (weak men) are always saying yes and giving in to whatever there girlfriend wants no matter how unfair the request may be, other men will have to do the same to get and keep a girlfriend because otherwise the will leave for another men who bows down for every whim of theirs.

If men learn how to stand their ground and act strong instead of like weak needy men things will improve pretty fast. If women face men who are resolute they will need to change their expectations.

Yes

In part yes

No

[alli-112]

I don't feel like your explanation really matches your question. What are you asserting women pretend about?

Also in response to your explanation, I feel like it goes both ways, but is also inaccurate to how most relationships work. Like, on one level yes, people of any gender are likely to seek out partners who treat them the best. Everyone wants to be treated well, so it's not a one-sided thing where men are the neutral party and women are upholding unrealistic expectations. Both men and women have the ability to find a partner who suits them. People-pleasing tendencies can develop regardless of gender, and should be improved upon/resolved regardless of gender.

But also like, most people are not dating based purely on how accommodating their partner is, there's also a lot of factors like personal chemistry, shared, values, physical attraction, etc that drive partnering habits, so I think your view of relationships here is oversimplified to the point of inaccuracy.

Side note: what are you viewing as the unreasonable expectations of women?

[foxsquirrell]

First of all like I explained to the guy below I think I used the wrong word in my question. I should have used the word expect. That is what I had in mind. In my language to pretend means to expect something. You see how and why I slipped up in my question?
Now as for your question my answer is very simply. Money for the most part. In one way or another. Directly or indirectly. I mean there are other things as well, but the main thing which is unfairly balanced I say is money. It could be other things as well like for example some family decision. If it is not her way first she starts by not letting you touch her (for starters), and then even hinting or explicitly threatening her guy with divorce. That't the kind of bastards that you are. Again I don't think bastards is the exact word I would like to use here. I am thinking of another word in my own language, but I don't think it has a good translation in the English language. So I tried to use a word which is somewhere around what I intend to call you.
I myself am not in a relationship, although I have tasted it a little bit, and I observed a lot too through the years. For example the threat of divorce (wife threatening husband) I can recall two instances, both family friends. I thought to myself what a sorry state those men have ended up in.
In short I think I can sum it up as the transition from a patriarchal male dominate society to a female dominated society. You (girls) have much control because of all the weak men out there. If men could listen to my appeal, to my advice, if they can steel their heart when they need to, it will be a different story. And you will be brought down to your knees (methaphorically speaking). But men need to adopt this mentality for this to work. If just a few do it, it will not work because there will be plenty of other victims still available for you to turn your tentacles around.

[alli-112]

No problem on the translation issue. But wow, lot to unpack here.
1. I'm not sure what culture you're a part of, so I'm not sure I can really comment on what sort of gender socializations might be at play there. Lots of cultures around the globe have a patriarchal history that has basically resulting in men having monetary control and women performing domestic labor. Some individuals maintain a preference for a more traditional style, while others prefer a more even split of both sets of responsibilities. It's perfectly fine to have a preference as to where you fall on this spectrum, but it's then your responsibility to find a partner of a similar mindset. You can't blame people for wanting something different than you.

2. Bastard (s) is a cuss word (a very rude way to refer to someone), so I don't recommend using it in civil conversation.

3. Anyone has the right to leave their partner if their relationship becomes unhealthy or otherwise too difficult to handle. Equally, there is no reason why an individual in a romantic relationship should have to be intimate with their partner if they don't want to. Divorce is not a "threat". If someone, regardless of gender, is "threatening" divorce, it is because their situation has become intolerable enough that they are willing to upend their entire life in order to escape it.

4. Women do not, as far as I know, "control" men, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

5. I support men peacefully standing up for themselves and pursuing healthy relationships, but blaming women collectively for men's problems isn't productive. Teaching men emotional intelligence, personal and social awareness, and healthy boundary setting is what will make a difference, not "steeling one's heart". Also, given that one of the main drivers of divorce in the west is unequal division of domestic labor, teaching men to take responsibility for household tasks and be proactive in child rearing will probably also save a lot of relationships.

[foxsquirrell]

Your answer although very clear and very well structured disappoints me, because beyond the polished surface there are many false statements. The kind of vexing false statements almost always present in women's arguments. Not sure if they are genuine mistakes or the product of bias.
For instance women do not control men you said. Really? Men tend to be the weaker side emotionally and that is why I advice to steel their heart or be more rational at least. I am not saying that all women are in control, what I am saying is that the phenomena is rife. Very rife!
Listen I just woke up and I am not in the mood to go deeper into this especially when I know what to expect from you! And by the way I am talking about western societies of which I am part of too. And the term bastards I'm afraid is what I want to use. That is what I want to communicate approximately (The actual word here is actually worse lol).
On a more positive note you do give some good general advice such as maintaining healthy boundaries, and something else you said in that sentence. So I appreciate that part at least.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I honestly barely understood your question but it sounds like you believe, at least in heterosexual relationships, that men have become too “submissive” to the wants of their girlfriend. I think what you mean to talk about is setting healthy boundaries but the way you phrase it sounds like domineering abuse, which most likely has to do with your own mindset around women.

[foxsquirrell]

Yeah apparently I should have used the word expect not pretend. It is a slip up because in my language to pretend means when someone expects something. Like someone expects this or that from someone else. But yeah you understood correctly. I don't know. Maybe you are right I am being a bit biased because I am exposed to more of what I described than not. I hope it is. lol I don't think it is though.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yeah, I don’t think you know what a healthy boundary is, especially if it interferes with your own personal desires

[foxsquirrell]

But it's not about me first of all. And if that is the case, oh then there are a hell of a lot of men out there who do not know what a healthy boundary is. But then again it is what I am saying after all. I am saying that men are acting weak by giving in to there girlfriend's demands all or most of the time.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Men are extremely undersocialized compared to women, of course none of you know what a healthy boundary looks like

[Chazmatazz269]

To some extent, it is, but it’s women’s fault too. Just because you’re allowed to be a selfish jerk doesn’t mean you should be.
And good men don’t “have to” do anything to compete with low quality men. Those relationships always end because, contrary to popular myth, most women can’t stay with simpering fools very long. She can’t love you if she doesn’t respect you and she can’t respect you if you don’t respect yourself. Even for the rare woman who’s so sociopathic that she never grows tired of using and abusing men, most men eventually grow tired of being used and abused. It’s a one in a million relationship when an endlessly selfish and vindictive woman finds and endlessly masochistic man and they live happily ever after.
So modifying your behavior based off of that model is not just dumb, but self destructive. You might as well be one of those simpering dweebs if that’s the choice you make.

[MrOracle]

Absolutely. Men simping for women are hurting everyone, but themselves most of all. Morons who think they have some kind of "relationship" with some women who just takes their money and favors are responsible for a lot of the problems we've got.

While many men HAVE pulled way back, there are still many naive, inexperienced, and desperate men who are feeding many women's appetite for attention and easy money, and it needs to stop. Educating the men around you is the best way to make that happen.

[foxsquirrell]

Finally someone who sees eye to eye. Well said!

[OneViewpoint]

Hey, other guys can do whatever they want. I'm not gonna be a doormat for anyone. Can't tolerate the word no once in a while? Need me to agree with everything you say? Then I can't tolerate you. If you can't set boundaries and aren't willing to enforce them, no one is going to respect you. That's a you problem not a them problem. I've never had a problem leaving damaged personalities in the rear view mirror.

[HelpfulGirlll]

Societal pressures and individual choices intertwine to shape both men's and women's behaviors.

[AngryCarl2]

What does any of this have to do with pretending?

[foxsquirrell]

I think I should have said expect. In my language to pretend means to expect something, and it is easy to slip like this when using another language.