Why today's unbelievers and sexually immoral are dangerously close to reprobate status and why repentance is far from them

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I will discuss 2 groups of people who have a difficult time recognizing why there is error in these lifestyles but such reprobates that they aren't able to realize it.

Unbelievers

Most people who call themselves atheists are not realizing that there is a spirit of hatred against God. Even demons know God exists and tremble in fear. All the unbeliever needs to do is repent of their sin against the Most High and exercise their free will to become believers. They need to seek Jesus and come to the recognition that God exists. If unbelievers keep rejecting the Holy Ghost's call for repentance, then God will sooner or later give unbelievers up to a reprobate mind, so that they do the deed knowing it's in error but unable to come to the realization that their deed is keeping them from wanting to know God. Unbelief is more than merely just fleshly desiring God not to exist. It can be lacking faith or trust in God for certain situations even if you recognize His existence.

Sexually immoral

Many people are influenced from secular media outlets to want to promote premarital sex and sex outside marriage or against God's procreative clause and purposes. Much of this is due to Satan using sex to pervert the minds of many people, including those who consider themselves strong Christians. Anybody who is not praying, fasting and Holy Ghost filled could fall prey to this. It's so easy to get attached to pornography and masturbation because it's a me first and if it feels good, then do it society we live in. Many people do not stand ground but tolerate all kinds of sexual behaviors. People need to seek God for guidance in accordance to living a Biblical and pure sexual life.

Conclusion:

The downfall of unbelief and sexual immorality is due to an increase of allowing idols inside the home, which gives Satan reign in people's lives to tempt them with sexual indecency but people still have the power to resist and live a Godly sexuality but many don't choose that. People just aren't motivated to seek God or righteous sexual lives because it's so easy to give in and do that which feels pleasurable to yourself. I think it's a difficult time for people who change if not impossible once their minds are of a reprobate status.

Please share your experiences and your ideas of how you maintain a more Godly pleasing belief and sexuality.

[btbc92]

If people don't start changing their ways, yes, absolutely. The word of God is clear. Its not always that that leads to hell. But their prime decision to not change and never change. Even when a person commit grave sinful mistakes and I know plenty of them, they knew and learn the danger of losing God permanently from their life. I remember an incident when God practically walked away from a person after choosing sin. But he still reached out. He still reaches out to people. From people, by people for people and even with himself. But people again, reject him.

For me it's kinda simple how I keep my sexuality pure as much as possible:

1. I do not stick around immoral behaviors and gossip concerning sex. Its one thing when its educational or testimonial. Its another when you exploits ones or somebody else sexual business to the public. Somebody is so-so in bed? I don't want to know about! Somebodies penis is too small? NOT MY BUSINESS. Said victim better sue them for defamation and exploitation! That's another pet-peeve of mine. I get it if it's effecting your sex life and you really care and it hurts you both lady. But if your shaming him for something he was born with: SHAME, SHAME, SHAME... SHAME ON YOU! I will NOT participate in it.

2. The obvious one is not watching porn, staying away from sexually explicit material be it through songs, books, magazines, etc or masturbation.

3. I stay away from men with lustful intent and eyes. And make it clear what kind of woman I am.

4. I don't participate in dating and never have because of this very topic.

5. I read and study the word of God. Obey his commandments in my life and through his spirit, listen to him using my Intuition to avoid danger in every direction, read patterns in relationships, and understand the living word. Where people see it as concrete, I see beyond that. I was given revelation how he originally INTENDED marriage, relationships, love and sex to be. And its NOT what many Christians think! It's exactly what I have been saying for decades! The problem is, so many people prefer the worldly way that they refuse to maximize their true potential that could have save marriages in the multitudes! Secular couples and singles are FAILING, because WE the CHURCH fail to be a church, a community and the light and salt of the world. Instead of being like Christ in likemindedness, we shun God and gone into the world and mixed light with darkness. It is not just idols. I cannot blame idols. I blame people unable to truly care about real love and having responsibility by being accountable anymore.

The real question is do anybody really want a PURE SEXUAL LIFE? I have come to a conclusion that the number are far from few. It's less that 1%. When one chooses to really listen, then we must be ready. Until then, I live my life. There is a reason I chose celibacy as oppose to abstinence until marriage. I am TIRED of the excuses with people.

[Edanurus]

As i said in my opinion i was a believer in a situation that was testing enough.

Yet I wanted to be baptized and my church told me no. How if god exists did i have a chance, i couldn't just disregard what my church said.

[btbc92]

You can't always believe what is being said in churches. As God told me years ago, people are just that: people. It is choice to fight for the relationship you want. That includes with God pursue God and he will pursue you. Not the church building. They were wrong. And God is not happy with the church, trust me. Many are in spiritual error.

[btbc92]

But their Pride blinds them.

[btbc92]

You had every right to seek baptism in the Lord. And he would gladly give it to you. What you experienced was nothing but the devil. Satan's in churches too. And that's exactly what it was. Because whatever calling you had in your life, Satan wanted to make sure that you was discouraged so you wouldn't fulfill what was called for your life. It's not too late. Don't let your age and your past stop people from pursuing what you want.

[Edanurus]

@btbc92 then ill ask you the same question 13 year old me had after that. How can you tell? The church of satan as you put it taught me everything i know about the bible. How do I decide whats true and whats not. God never came to me no matter how much I cried and asked him for guidance. As far as i see it if he exist he has done everything he could to make me doubt while letting others be self righteous in their beliefs and get away with that. I decided to life where I care for others regardless of what happens. I will do my best to live a good life for everyone around me but because god put me in the pen of devils I am forever forsaken, as god wants from me, he's omnipotent he knew how what he designed for me would lead me down this path.

"You have every right to seek baptism" I did and I was denied that was all part of gods plan apparently. So what did i do so wrong that i needes to go through the heartbreaking incident where i felt like even god didn't like me. I was 5 when i started going to church by my self. You can blame the church I went to as much as you want but if he exists god sent me there and decided to test the faith of a kid more harshly than any adult I've met.

[Edanurus]

Seems like satan had a really keen interest in me to put so many obstacles in my way.

[btbc92]

You can tell by sensing in the spirit. I never said that it's a church of Satan. But that Satan is operating most churches.

How do you decide what's true or Not? Its simply choice. We all have struggles, trails and tribulations. This is where your faith is tested. Your faith was tested and you went through it. Whatever you gain from it is either positive or negative. I had my cries and struggles but I still held on.

God HAS NEVER done anything to make you question him. It is a matter of choice and desire. How much you truly desire God. What happened is that you were looking for a faith that you never had. You wanted to get baptized, go elsewhere. God didn't sent you there. Your parents did. They are just as responsible for our walk as we do as we become adults.

[btbc92]

You still have a choice NOW. You can't hold on to the past, it will take away your future. I was taken from church at 8. That was my mother's choice. Not mine. BUT when I got my freedom, I went to church on my own. I made my effort. And God protected me. God works in mysterious ways. Yes, he is omnipotent. But be cannot force us to do something that we in our hearts done want to do. He could if he want. But what loving parent do that unless it's going to badly affect and hurt us and others? Most of his decisions stem from our decisions and heart. It's easy to fool ourselves. But God sees all. So I can't judge you if your lying about your sincereness for God or not. But only he knows. On this planet in this life, you must fight to serve Christ. You must die to self in order to get close to him.

[btbc92]

But if you keep making excuses for your past and your own decisions as an adult, you just going to grow further apart from him. You are responsible for your salvation. You must take responsibility for your actions. That is what you going to be judged for. Whatever sins and discrepancies your parents, other adults, and those within the church have done to you, are their sins that they must answer for if they didn't repent for them. Forgive them, forgive yourself, and just do what you got to do. That's what I had to do, and I make it my business to be on my knees and communicate with God everyday. The word of God is your connection to him. Desire to hear his voice and he will speak to you. But also have to understand that you were demonically hindered as well. You got to be in a place where the spirit is moving. Because you definitely got the spirit of unbelief.

[Daniela1982]

People think that to become a strong Christian they have to give up sex. Not true as the Song of Solomon shows in the Bible. But that is sex ordained by God, not by man such as anal sex. That is reprobate.

[Tamera952]

What a Debbie downer you are. Gimme a break. You sound like you’re in an LDS cult.

[btbc92]

@Tamera952 If you want to be a hoe. Be a hoe. Having a purely spiritual life can mean greater happiness and sexual fulfillment in your life and for your future offspring if you have them. When they end up in a whole where their hoping partners, god forbid get an STD and such, and it can be traced back to you, you are at fault and is equally accountable for the generational curses. Being a 'Debbie Downer' in your case is a lot better than to live with so many regrets.

[btbc92]

by the way, I am not part of that cult. It's spiritual wisdom from the Lord himself. Sadly half of the things I'm talking about they do NOT talk about in churches.

[Tamera952]

If you say so.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

@Tamera952
Leave @btbc92 alone. She is one of my favorite women here and she has strong spiritual integrity. Why bully her and me and other spiritual remnants? You claim not to trust God's existence but prove you do by bullying us. You are doing Satan's work.

[BlacklightShade]

@Exorcist_Rampage has unintentionally outed himself as @Holy_Ghost_Fire and it appears he is also @btbc92. I don’t care to look too far into it and read more raving mad posts from all the sock puppets this one person stuck all over this site.

[btbc92]

@BlacklightShade

I don't know who the he'll you are, but don't you dare start disrespecting people on here like your some God or something. You have something to say to a person you say it to a person's face instead of acting like a coward. I am a grown woman who can speak up her mind without having others standing up for me. He chose to and I appreciate it. You however, need to go. So pack up your mental bags and get off my comment feed if you can't be respectful or be prepared to be blocked. You have no respect for other people. And I mean it. Get off!

[btbc92]

And the same will be for the other one on here.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

@BlacklightShade
I am not btbc92. We are not the same person. View her profile if you doubt me.

[Daniela1982]

@Edanurus Why does everyone blame God for their own folies? Every man has a free will and they can do what they want and many choose not to obey God. In spite of what people think God has no obligation to answer the prayers of those who have not been washed in the blood he shed for your forgiveness, in other words, unbelievers. You don't have to earn it, but like a gift given you have to accept it. You apparently never accepted his gift and repented of your sins. Therefore God does not hear.

[Tamera952]

@BlacklightShade that’s astounding!! I can’t believe you put that together. Well in my opinion as well this guy is not 26 no one says wuses and talks like he does at 26!!!

[Exorcist_Rampage]

How old do you think I am? I am 26. Want me to send proof?

[Daniela1982]

@Edanurus I don't think you can be baptized until you accept Jesus as your savior and repent of your sins. There is no forgiveness without repentance. Acts 2:38 After you have accepted the Lord and confessed your sins and repented you are allowed to be baptized. Just baptizing everyone does not save them. It would be dishonest to baptize a person and say now they are saved as baptizing itself is just part of the process.

[Denniszen]

There are certain things that must be done to be written into the BOOK OF LIFE, But only GOD knows someones heart at the point of no return.

Your statement is dangerously incorrect and misleading. And you could be setting yourself up for eternal damnation by discouraging people to seek a relationship with GOD because they think because of their sin.

GOD IS ALWAYS ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE ALL THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT HAS HAPPEND OR WHAT ANY ONE TELLS YOU.

You HAVE TO ABANDON sin and embrace GOD WHOLE HEARTEDLY to the best of your ability to be in accordance.

Be careful how you interpret and word what you say because its also a sin to teach GOD'S WORD INCORRECTLY AND OUT OF CONTEXT BUT ANOTHER TO OFFEND OTHERS WITH HIS WORD.

I hope you are prayerful and seek the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE you post things like this.

[Walrus_au]

It might be nice if bigots like yourself actually took some time to learn about the world around you and the people in it. But I know that would threaten your fragile faith and impotent god.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God is mighty and yes, I can fall prey to this unbelief and sexual morally if I don't allow the Holy Ghost to assist my life.

If you allow the Holy Ghost to convict your unbelief of sexual immorality, you'd have more peace of mind. I'm sure that at least 1 of these 2 you are doing, if not both.

Not a bigot. I'd condemn myself too if I gave in to either.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You will not cuss when replying to me. Understand?

I don't care about your cussing fetishes with other users. You will not do that with me.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

No you won't. You are aware of it is harassing me and if you harass me knowing I've asked you to stop, then you can get banned. It is intentional harassment.

Then maybe I will talk about your mom and daughter then.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I can also just keep removing your opinions and replies that show cuss words. Wusses cuss. I can take those measures to prevent you from cussing st my questions.

[Walrus_au]

"Wusses cuss"?
Says the quaking pearl clutching guy with the frail ephemeral god who can't handle me using the correct words to express my opinion.

Wusses run from facing the issue by wailing that so and so used a bad word. Grow the fuck up! Put your big girl panties on and learn to deal with your issues, instead of trying to project them on everyone else.

Yes, you can remove me from the thread. That proves nothing about me, but it proves you cannot stomach facing the questions. And make no mistake, we can see that is why you are threatening this, because words are just words. You want a distraction to keep people from seeing the non-existance of your imaginary friend.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Stop harassing me. You've been earned. So now when you cuss, you know it is harassment.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

warned, not earned

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Stop harassing me. You are doing this cussing to be spiteful. You know it is harassment because I don't want it used on my opinions and replies to my questions or opinions to others.

Either respect that or I'll report you for harassment.

[Walrus_au]

You really have no idea what harrassment or adversity look like do you.

Why are you so terrified of swear words? Or am I utterly correct and you are to scared to face the impotence of your imaginary friend, so you would rather scrabble for anything to distract?

Let's face it, we both know that someone using language as it is ment to be used, is only harassment if they are actually harassing you.

Now, out of idle curiosity, if I pander to this snowflake nonsense of avoiding words that make you wet yourself in terror. Would you actually face the hard truths?
My bet would be on no.
So, tell me how unbelievers have a worse moral compass than your slaving, raping, infanticidal, abortionist of a god?

Or maybe that was it, it's not about the swear words at all, it's words that describe any reality you are too scared to face.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God doesn't support abortion and yes, if you don't cuss nor call God an imaginary friend. You have a wusses concept of who God is.

You make claims you can't prove. Calling God imaginary means Satan is influencing you.

[Walrus_au]

Your grasp on logic is abysmal. I see your other deity, satan, as just as imaginary as your god.

And the idea of god being against abortion is neither biblical, nor matched in reality.
In the bible there are specific instructions for priests to perform rites that cause abortions.
There are also specific instructions for the soldiers to kill all and every pregnant woman along with the men (but of the women who have never lain with a man, keep for yourselves... That's one of the rape command examples).

I find your claim of my view of god as being woossy to be highly amusing.
If there really is an all powerful god that is described in the bible, who at one point laid waste to every man, woman, child (and yes, foetus) on the globe (it's in there, go read it) then flipping him off is hardly 'woosie' quaking at him is far more cowardly.
Now since I have been happily flipping off the idea of a god, any god or gods for a long time now, and none of them, not yours, not allah, not thor, thoth, ra, odin, mercury, apollo, nor any of the litterally thousands of gods in this world has come to me and put me in my place.

To be honest, if the god of the christian bible existed, and proved himself to me, I'd accept him as a real thing, but would in that same breath condem him for the vile, hateful, bigoted, misogynistic, racist, bully that he is according to his story, and would certainly not worship such a being.

You come to us with claims of a god. Prove it. If your entire proof is a re-translation of a re-translation of a redacted and re-edited and re-translated and mistranslated story written by bronze age goat herders. then you should rethink your world-view, and I will go ahead and treat this idea with all the scorn and derision it deserves.

[Walrus_au]

Ohh, and another thought... in answer to your statement
"Not a bigot. I'd condemn myself too if I gave in to either. "
let's take your "sexually immoral" statement - yes I am making an assumption here, an assumption that that includes homosexuality, trans-sexuality, bi-sexuality etc.
That shows a monumental lack of understanding of how the world works. These people are not 'giving in to it' any more than you are 'giving in' to hetrosexuality. It is simply a part of who they are.
So you are condemning them for what they are, in the same way that condemning people based on their race or skin-colour is racist (a form of bigotry) condemning people for their sexuality is bigoted - usually classified as sexist.

Thus, yes, I call you out on your bigotry.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Then according to your logic, if you condemn pedophilia and show extreme anger and rage against it, you must be a secret pedophile?

You came at me claiming no God first, so you should prove it. If you say you can't prove a negative, then you can't use a negative since it is dishonest.

Of course you will say you don't believe in Satan. The deceived are not in a good position to know they are deceived. Satan still uses you whether you admit he is doing so or not. You don't have Holy Ghost unction to discern things. You are only concerned about the things if the flesh and not the spirit. You are blinded by science.

[Walrus_au]

Ok, so I typed out my response, came out to 4 pages. seems I have a thing or two to say about your claimed paragon of good and morality. So here goes, strap in.

[Walrus_au]

"Then according to your logic, if you condemn pedophilia and show extreme anger and rage against it, you must be a secret pedophile?"

So, on top of all this nonsense you spill, you know nothing about logic too. Makes sense.

I come at you telling you that your god of the bible is a most immoral, vile and disgusting character I have ever come across, and I have read a lot of books with horrifying villans.

The god you present is entirely logically impossible. Take even the basic described features of
Just
Merciful

Just is the quality of ensuring that everyone gets the treatment they deserve.
Merciful is the quality of not giving harsh punishments despite what may be deserved.

[Walrus_au]

Then on top of that.
if I stand here and say "There is no god, I deny the whole god story entirely." Which I do and just did. then this is the only 'crime' he will not forgive, and my punishment is to be burned alive for all eternity.
How is that either just or merciful.

This god of yours not only condones slavery, but lays out rules for beating them. They are your property and to be passed down to your children or sold as you will. And even slaves from your own peoples, you can manipulate them into lifetime servitude and being chattel.
How is that just, or moral, or merciful?

So lets see just how important the top 10 laws this paragon of morality and justice and mercy hmmm?
Don't kill people - seems like that would be pretty much right at the top of anyone's list right?
5th, 6th, or 7th depending on which place you read it from. So not killing is at best the 5th of the top 10,
So what could be better than that? Well - the FIRST one on the list about how to treat other people is about honoring your mother and father. Ok, that's not bad - but ultimately flawed. I know lots of folks who would have died from the beatings their parents laid out if they had 'honored' them, so not ideal.
Before that, we have a whole lot of this megalomaniacal character ensuring that everyone strokes and feeds his ego. There wasn't anything he could think of that might have been more important in a list of moral rules?
Thou shalt not rape? Nope, that one is not there at all.
Thou shalt not own other humans as slaves? nope, also not there at all.

[Walrus_au]

What we do have is rules against adultery. Which is loosely defined as any sex outside of marriage. Now that is a loose definition because the biblical concept of marriage is, well, broad


Now what about a couple who have agreed between themselves as adults to sleep with other people? Since they are aware of what they agreed too, they are not being hurt. And let's assume they are honest with the other parties involved, no false expectations there. But no, two adults cannot make an agreement between themselves, they should stick to him just ****ing his concubines, slave girls, brothers widows, Rape victims, wife's slaves. While she should suck it up and just not have an opinion. She's just an appliance anyway.
So this whole adultery rule seems wholly unjust and inadequate no?

Then there is do not steal, second time he manages to hit something worth keeping. Of course, all those women the husband is having sex with can be the subjects of those thefts, we can't have that now can we?

And then we have coveting... Thought 'crimes'
Firstly, without coveting, the very concept of capitalism falls in a heap. If I don't covet my neighbours donkey, I won't go out and buy one of my own
And secondly, it harms no-one unless I ACT on it in a bad way.
"Hey look neighbour, that's an awesome Porsche you have there! I'd love to go for a ride in it, What if I put your fence together for you, can you give me a ride to the shops?" Who looses here? And all because I was coveting my neighbour's Porsche.

[Walrus_au]

Still, nothing about don't rape.
But there are numerous instances where god is directly instructing his people to rape, and several where he is just fine with it.
Kill every one of your enemies man woman and child, even livestock. But keep the women who have not lain with a man for yourselves.

And just how was it that Lot's daughters got pregnant after living in 'the wilderness' after leaving soddom and gomorra?
I'll wait...
That's right, they got their father drunk and raped him. Repeatedly.

So yes, I say the god of the bible does not exist, the god described in the bible is entirely logically impossible and cannot exist.

As a fictional character he requires a massive suspension of disbelief just to ignore those logical impossiblies. But even granting that, he is the most base, sadistic, cruel, vile evil character I have ever seen.

And just for bonus points let's compare the number of people that satan killed (he's supposed to be the bad guy right?) in the bible. For those at home, a generous reading of the bible has his body count at 10.
And god? Well, no-one's really sure, so the most accurate answer is "ALL OF THEM" That cute childrens story about the big boat and animals (which makes not one ounce of sense in reality by the way) is all just a vehicle for god to slaughter every living person on earth other than 8 or 10, I don't remember exactly how many of them there was, just that they were all immediate family and had to re-populate the humans on the planet. ... Even pornhub can't come close to the incest numbers needed there.

[Walrus_au]

As for abortion, let's start at Numbers 5, where god commands the priests to perform abortions.

And who can forget this old favorite - Psalm 137:9 Happy and blessed is he who dashes the infants against the rocks.
That would be infanticide for those of you playing at home.

So, if you can find ANY way of making this character, moral, just and merciful, then you are fooling yourself.

Tell me again about this source of all morality and perfect paragon of good.
20 min ago, you might have been able to claim ignorance, assuming you didn't actually read the book you think your eternal soul depends on.
Now, you can't claim that. So now, claims of this kind have to be taken as lies.

[Walrus_au]

now, let's just take a quick look at some reality to see what the supposedly all powerful creator of everything actually DOES when it comes to abortion shall we?

www.sciencealert.com/meta-analysis-finds-majority-of-human-pregnancies-end-in-miscarriage-biorxiv

Seems like he does it a lot.

[Walrus_au]

So. All of this said.

Tell me again how I should give a tinkers toss what you have to say on morality when that is where you get your moral instructions from.

Your attitude to other human beings is almost as abysmal as your imaginary friend's is. No surprise there. Somehow god always seems to hate the same people the god owner hates.

You sir, are a bigot, and maybe a liar.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Calling God an imaginary friend doesn't mean He is.

Your vision of life is atheism. Who cares who rapes or who murders? We are not going to exist after death if the atheistic vision of life is true. Making a moral judgement is absurd in your vision of life. You can't morally justify a moral action over an immoral action in your view. It wouldn't matter if you lived moral or not since there would be no Hell to go to for it if atheism is true. Claiming we should live moral can't be justified since you have no moral basis as to hold a morality over an immorality. You do moral and they rape a child and you both die in a cat wreck, then you and them wouldn't have any transcendental value in choosing good or evil. Meaningless and absurd. You are a hypocrite.

If you claim to be atheist, then freaking live like one and don't hold any moral basis in life. If we have no free will, then you are a hypocrite to condemn any action. Be an honest atheist if you claim to be atheist. Don't be a hypocritical atheist by claiming morality has value over immorality.

God didn't condone abortion. He said He hates hands that shed innocent blood. You twist scripture. That was how they tested things then. God opens and shuts the wombs. Doesn't mean you can take life in your own hands. You are pro abortion because it is easy to just say their body but it is not her body. It is another's body.

Hell isn't the same level for all types of sin and you didn't create sex so no right to set the sex rules. God created sex and set the sex rules.

[Walrus_au]

Ok, here goes. I am writing all of this for your benefit, you wouldn't be disrespectful enough to disregard it without reading it now would you? Surely not, you are soooo respectful you can't handle it when someone uses strong language... I'll get to that in a moment.

If I am right about this, you should credit me as a prophet... or maybe someone who has heard all of this more times than anyone cares to count.

And just so you know. Every time you disrespect me in here, at least the most gratuitous times, I will point it out and return the favour.

“Calling God an imaginary friend doesn't mean He is. “
No, the fact such a being does not exist does. Calling gods out as imaginary friends is just descriptive.

“Your vision of life is atheism. “
That didn't take long. For me to assume that this is not a lie, means I have to assume you are less intellectually capable than my weather predicting rock.

My vision of life is life.
Atheism describes only one thing, my position on a single question.
And that position, in it's most detail is this “I have not been convinced of the proposition that one or more god (s) exist, and as such I do not accept the proposition.”

It can be colloquially described as I don't believe god or gods exist and have not been proved wrong.

[Walrus_au]

“Who cares who rapes or who murders?”
Wow, I've never heard a million variants of this threat.
'Without god what's to stop you raping and murding all you could want?'
The short answer is that I do. I do all the raping and murdering that I want to do. And I want to do none.

That is because like many other creatures on this planet, chimpanzees, gorillas, other apes, rats, dogs, cats, dolphins even pidgeons, I am part of a social species. And like all of them, I have a empathy based ethical structure. It is something that is passed on from parent to child in a number of ways, genetics, epigenetics and nurture/teaching.

Interesting you should call out raping as a moral negative, your god never speaks out against it, and in fact commands it often and accepts it universally.

[Walrus_au]

“We are not going to exist after death if the atheistic vision of life is true. “

Actually, atheism has exactly nothing to say about any afterlife. But your straw man from above shows you clearly either don't have the honesty to hold that much in your mind as you argue, or maybe you lack the ability. I don't know which would be least insulting to assume, perhaps you can tell me so I don't have to assume.

Claiming there are gods doesn't change the fact that after we die we only exist in the memories of those in our lives and the works we have done in this the one and only life we know we get.

[Walrus_au]

Morality – both mine and yours, come from the same place, and it's not god. It's an evolutionary need to live in a society. Someone in a society who harms others gets removed from the society and does not survive, thus does not pass their anti-social behaviours on.
Where you and I differ is covered by your line about needing threats of hell to behave morally.
You just admitted that you do not act morally, you act obediently, and out of fear of threats.
When I do the volunteer work I do, I do it because I want to, because I like helping others, not because some wizard is threatening me with hell.
What I do, I do not do out of obedience, I do out of empathy, out of actually caring about other people, animals, the planet, the environment, the future of life on this spinning ball of rock.

Thankyou for highlighting your failure there. It saves me some trouble.

As to the hypocrit, yeah, in some cases I am. You just haven't caught any of them.
I'll tell people to eat healthy, but sometimes I indulge in junk food.
I'll tell my children to never smoke, even though I did as a child
Just a couple of examples.

When it comes to your wailing about me not fearing hell punishment to keep from killing people. I don't need that, I don't kill people because I am a moderately good person.

You, however, claim to be good, when you even openly admit, you only ever act obedient, from threats, not internal goodness. That is hypocracy.
But I have some good news for you. When you do decent humane things, you actually do them for the same reason I do. Someone just told you lies about why you do it for most of your life.

[Walrus_au]

“If you claim to be atheist, then freaking live like one and don't hold any moral basis in life. If we have no free will, then you are a hypocrite to condemn any action. Be an honest atheist if you claim to be atheist. Don't be a hypocritical atheist by claiming morality has value over immorality. “

Well now. I DO claim to be an atheist. So you don't need to couch that with if. And I DO live like one.
And then you go off the rails.
And here we are saying it again.
Repeat after me, loud for the folks in the back.
Atheism is a description of only one stance on only one question.

Morality, as I explained above, has nothing to do with me not believing god stories.

And again, stop being a pig ignorant prig and trying to tell me what I think. If you want to know what I think, ask me. It is clear that you have no idea yourself.

Morality has value in the ability for individuals to live as communities, societies. These couldn't exist without them.

[Walrus_au]

“God didn't condone abortion. He said He hates hands that shed innocent blood. You twist scripture. That was how they tested things then. God opens and shuts the wombs. Doesn't mean you can take life in your own hands. “

You can't have it both ways. If this god of the bible exists as described. Then he absolutely condones and performs masses of abortions.
Perhaps you should actually read this book you claim to be the source of all morality and claim that your eternity rests on. So far it is clear that I know it far better than you do.

It is also clear, you didn't actually read what I wrote. That is a poor decision, because you have a habit of trying to claim you know what I am thinking. And when you disrespect me like that, I am going to tell you off. But if you read what I write as we go, you will actually know some of the things I think and believe. It gives you the tools you need to NOT be told off.

[Walrus_au]

“Hell isn't the same level for all types of sin”
That's just meaningless drivvel. I'll listen to this kind of nonsense when you can provide evidence for hell as you describe it actually existing.

“... and you didn't create sex...”
I don't recall ever even suggesting or implying I did. Evolution did a great job of that millions of years ago. It's a remarkably efficient way of exchanging genetic matterial.

“... so no right to set the sex rules.”
if I am involved in the sex, I absolutely DO get to set the rules. It's called consent. You know, that thing that you are only to eager to ignore when it comes to women's bodies?

Now can I set the sex rules for anyone who is not having sex with me? NO. Provided others are not being harmed, and all parties are adult and consenting, then the only time I get to set any rules are if I am involved.

THE SAME GOES FOR YOU. If it is not happening in your bed, it has nothing to do with you.

“God created sex and set the sex rules. “

A non-existant fictional villan created a real thing? Even in a star trek holo-deck storyline they didn't try to take it that far. When you can provide decent evidence of the existance of such a being, then we can begin to discuss what rules it can or cannot set.

But unless he is in my bed providing his share of pleasure to me, he still can't ignore the need for my consent. Come to think of it, in your storybook, that god character ignores consent on a regular basis... that would make him... no no, don't tell me, I'll get it. An immoral monster!

[Walrus_au]

So here's a thought.
It's fairly clear you didn't bother to read what I took the time to write in response to you.

Instead of repeatedly inventing what you think I might think or believe, try reading my responses.
Prove to me that you are not the same gum-flapping arrogant theist who I have answered thousands of times and who never engages with my responses. I am beginning to have trouble not believing that theists CANNOT grapple with these ideas. You have an opportunity to prove me wrong.

And just to keep you honest about it, I think I will stick to the when you disrespect me then I disrespect you.

Now I know that once I get on a point I can get pretty deep into it then jump to the next one That is why I like to block quote the bits I am dealing with, it should help you with an understanding of just what it is that I am responding too.

Of course there is the other option, where you decide not to be intellectually honest and deal with the issues, then the good news for you, is that I have a lot of better things to be doing with my time.

I do this so that maybe you'll listen, and then when you start bashing another atheist, you might just get some of the things less wrong. Hell - you might even stop being disrespectful enough to stop telling them what they think.

Let's see how long that will last huh? I mean I think you clearly proved that speaking disrespectfully has nothing to do with using naughty words.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

If you can't prove a negative, then you can't use a negative. So you're unjustified in saying God doesn't exist.

Atheism is your vision of life. Even Sam Harris, called it a vision of life and claims to be atheist. I don't believe there is a such thing as an atheist. This is a spiritual battle and warfare against the flesh. Unbelief is a sin. You need to repent to God for your sin of unbelief towards Him. People can only say they are atheists but knows God exists. I have not been convinced of the proposition that God doesn't exist and don't accept that proposition.

So what? You can't justify holding moral value in atheistic framework. You could do the opposite and it wouldn't change anything. Your religion is evolution. Not mine. I don't think we came from fish and monkeys.

Yet as you claim to be atheist, you assume no afterlife. Can't prove a negative. Can't use a negative. You don't know if this is the only life regardless what you say.

Atheism is like Absolute Zero. Has a definition but can't exist in reality.

So what? No good or evil exists when your vision of life is atheism. You can't condemn or praise any action.

No need to ask what you think. You don't have the Holy Ghost, so you will tell a false statement of being atheist, even if you didn't intend to deceive.

It is not her body. It is another's body, you pro choice wuss.

Morality is objective. Wusses believe morality is subjective.

[Walrus_au]

“If you can't prove a negative, then you can't use a negative. So you're unjustified in saying God doesn't exist.”

So by your logic, the holy Invisible Pink Unicorn, the fire breathing dragon in my garage, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Russell's teapot all have to be accepted as true and real.

No, I do not have to accept the existence of an entirely logically inconsistent and do not. Especially when no evidence of the same has been offered.

“Atheism is your vision of life. Even Sam Harris, called it a vision of life and claims to be atheist.”
I'm fairly sure my name isn't Sam Harris.
And you are being an ignorant asshat again. When someone tells you what they believe, have the courtesy to listen to them. But why should I expect any better from some bone-head who has already proved that reality is too difficult for them to understand..

“I don't believe there is a such thing as an atheist.”

Then you are even more delusional than previously thought. I am an atheist, it is not a vision of life, I told you what it was, and you didn't listen. Fucking ignorant priggish ass.

So, you have proven you are capable of NOT listening to what you are told when someone takes the time to explain it to you.

You have proven you have no respect for others

Not surprised. Disapointed maybe, but not surprised.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I didn't say accept it. I said you can't say it. You claim proving a negative is impossible. If so, you can't use it. Otherwise, you would be saying something that isn't verified.

Sam Harris believes it so you have to. It is part if what is true. It is how you think the world is.

I don't need to respect you. Just because I disrespect you doesn't mean you can't respect me. Be the better man, not revenge driven.

You can say you believe it but you don't. No matter how much you say it, thee is no such thing as an atheist. Satan has deceived you. You don't care how you match your soul. You can only be a fleshly atheist but your spirit knows God exists.

You claim to know where morality came from but wasn't there to find our who have it. It isn't my morality. I didn't create morality. Morality is objective, not an opinion like a preference like no liking anchovies on a pizza. It is about what you don't prefer, not moral in your view.

Just because you don't think you aren't demon possessed doesn't mean you aren't. You are arrogant and think you have to be right. There are 2 real worlds' physical and spiritual.

You won't cause me to lose my joy of the Holy Ghost. People of the flesh don't understand the things of the spirit so they mock it. People tend to mock things they don't understand.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Not a bigot either and there are religious and non religious atheists like there are religious and non religious Christians. By atheists, I mean in the fleshly sense. What they claim. You are clueless and don't understand the things and powers of the spiritual world and heavenlies. I'm a man with a heart after spirituality, not man with a heart after science like you. I care about my real self, not just the physical part of me.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Also, you claim to be atheist, so you can't hold a moral basis about how morals arise. With you, it doesn't matter and if the atheistic vision of life is true, then our life battles are not important as we would be earthly prisoners who forever stay here. After we don't exist, if you are right, we get pummeled into an everlasting darkness of nothingness with no meaning. You can't provide any evidence nothing happens after death, yet assume it is true.

In math, if we don't know if an equation or series yields a solution, we don't assume it does nor doesn't, yet you do that with death. Fight like a champ or waggle out.

[Walrus_au]

" Also, you claim to be atheist, so you can't hold a moral basis about how morals arise."
Again, you were not listening to what you were told. You ignorant disrespectful slug.
Go back and read what I took the time to type in for your benefit. I explained the secular basis for morality. Repeating it again is useless, you keep proving you are either unwilling or unable to read it. Again, not sure which assumption makes you look better.

"With you, it doesn't matter and if the atheistic vision of life is true, then our life battles are not important as we would be earthly prisoners who forever stay here. After we don't exist, if you are right, we get pummeled into an everlasting darkness of nothingness with no meaning. You can't provide any evidence nothing happens after death, yet assume it is true."

Fuck your assumption of telepathic ability. You are 120% wrong again.
The sad thing is that you don't need to be a mind reader, you just need to be a reader of the English language.

So again, I ask, would you prefer I assume you are stubbornly and arrogantly ignorant and refusing to read what was typed for you? Or do you have some kind of comprehension disability and are somehow incapable of it?
Nothing in all of this is particularly difficult conceptually.

"In math, if we don't know if an equation or series yields a solution, we don't assume it does nor doesn't, yet you do that with death. Fight like a champ or waggle out."

Ohhh that is truly precious. You have missed one of the biggest lessons math has to teach
In math, if you do not have the information to calculate the equation, you say I don't know. NOT claim you do know that god did it.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You don't say you don't know what happens after death. You say nothing happens.

You also were not here to know who gave morality but assume to know how it came.

You claim to know God didn't do it when you don't know. You might not know how but doesn't mean others can't know.

Why don't you seek the Holy Ghost to be your teacher and quit being ignorant?

[Walrus_au]

And once again you show how little you pay attention.

No, I said I have no reason to think anything happens. If someone comes to me and asks, the answer is, the only things we have reasonable reasons to believe is that our personality ceases to exist as the brain ceases to function. Our bodies rot, or are burned or are donated to medicine and science, or are shot into space depending on the chosen arrangement. There is no reasonable evidence of anything else, so why would any rational person believe otherwise?

And morality, science has nutted most of that out. Humans are amazing at working things out when you give them good and functional tools like science!

And again, I never claimed to know. I have always contended that since there is no evidence for the god hypothesis, and a growing mountain of evidence for big bang, albiogenises, evolution, psychology, even evolutionary psychology as tenuious as that branch is.
So I have no reason to think there is a god.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You ignore reality. We have a physical realm and a spiritual realm.

You are a hypocrite to your own religion of science. You claim to be a man of high science but scientifically speaking, life begins at conception. You're a scientific hypocrite to claim women can decide but adhere to science and claim you're highly moral. You can call be ignorant on certain things. You're ignorant on spirituality. You mock the things you don't understand. Don't we all mock the things we can't or don't understand? People who are after hearts of science can't please God. People who are after hearts of unbelief can't please God.

I don't believe you think I really think you're an atheist. I don't believe people when they claim to be atheists. You tell me to respect your beliefs. Respect my beliefs when I say I don't believe in atheists. All people thing they are right and not wrong because they are the ones who claim to believe it.

For every 'evidence' you give for abiogenesis and evolution, I can give double the evidence against each.

Vision of life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg

Also, science is a religion. It's based on sense data. You must trust and rely that your senses are a perfect representation of reality. You trust your senses to tell you the truth but don't know they are. That's faith. That's religion. Watch it and weep, wuss!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trHVU9QeGB0

[Walrus_au]

Ahhh - I think your lack of comprehension ability is just a bit more dishonest than I previously assumed.

It's clear that grappling with what you were told honestly would destroy your arguments, and you deeply fear and are terrified about having the consider and rethink your stance.

You actually know your position is entirely false. Because if it actually held truth, facing reality would not hold any fear for you. Reality would only confirm a true belief, but you know your beliefs cannot hold up to reality.

How utterly dissapointing for you.
I'd consider feeling bad for you but you have been far to disrespectful and intellectually dishonest.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You believe in evolution. I believe in creation. You won't turn from evolutionists beliefs and I won't turn from creationists beliefs. Leave it at that.

No matter what, you assume I'm wrong and you're right. I assume I'm right and you're wrong. We each do that because we are the thinkers of them. Nobody thinks they could be wrong, especially you.

I'm not being dishonest. I really believe evolution is of the devil and think you really are demon possessed. The deceived is not in a position to know they are deceived. That's why you mock. You do as demons do: mock mock mock.

Mock all you want, reprobate. You'll be the one weeping and in confusion after death.

[Walrus_au]

"You believe in evolution. I believe in creation."

While I understand WHY you would want to equate our reasons for holding our positions. It is, AGAIN dishonest. I do not "believe" in evolution. I have learned about it, and I have come to accept that evolution by natural selection is the best understanding for what explains evolution. I came to this by studying the actual world around me.
If evolution were to end up proved wrong, it would change nothing about my lack of acceptance of your god hypothesis.
Evolution by natural selection as a process is entirely unconnected to any of the things we were discussing. Another intellectually dishonest sham you love to pull. Attempting to create a religion in my position where there is none.

Unsurprised, that kind of dishonest and pathetic attempt to characterise other people's reasons for holding their positions to be as weak as yours is something I have heard from the rank and file believer for decades. And if they hold that position honestly (before they are shown otherwise) or dishonestly (because they cannot face the idea that others look to reality for their answers to questions) the result is the same.

[Walrus_au]

"You won't turn from evolutionists beliefs and I won't turn from creationists beliefs."
You got that half right. Leaving aside that characterising my acceptance of evolution as in any way equivalent to your belief in creationism is monumentally dishonest. If the evidence turned up to show that evolution by way of natural selection was false, I'd walk away from it. There is no position I cling to as you do to your beliefs. Including the god position.
I would be among the first to find a global platform and announce I was wrong and there is a god, should enough of the appropriate evidence show up.
(on a side note, if that was the god of the bible, I'd follow my announcement with as strong a denouncement of the morality of said god as could be uttered, but I don't need to follow or worship a being to accept it's reality.)

So again, you dishonestly mischaracterise and malign my position.
Frankly your lack of respect for other human beings is damn near as fucking monumental as I have ever come across. You really should be ashamed.
But you are incapable of holding your belief and accepting me as a human at the same time. Your beliefs erode your humanity. Some morality there.

[Walrus_au]

"No matter what, you assume I'm wrong and you're right. I assume I'm right and you're wrong."
Again, you only got it half right.
And again, the bit you got wrong was about what my beliefs and outlook is, and you did that DESPITE having had it explained to you.
I really do tire of asking you for the basics of human decency and respect. I really don't know why I fucking bother. You keep showing me your shithouse manners. And displaying repeatedly that you can do all the pearl clutching and moaning about bad words you want, it doesn't stop you from having worse manners than a belligerent drunk being refused service.
But then, as I mentioned above, you HAVE to assume I am sub-human, or your worldview is threatened. So I understand. I do not forgive you, but I understand your motivations.

[Walrus_au]

"We each do that because we are the thinkers of them. Nobody thinks they could be wrong, especially you."

And again, you try to force words and attitudes into my mouth that have never been there. Fuck your disrespect, fuck your shitty manners, and fuck you for not listening.

I absolutely know I can be wrong, and I have been wrong on many occasions.
And when I am wrong, I go and find out where I was wrong, why and how, and I fix my understanding. This is a behaviour I will bet vital parts of my anatomy that you have not and would never do.
But maybe you will prove me wrong. You could start by actually reading the things I took the time to type instead of disrespectfully, rudely ignored while proceeding to insist that you know how and what I think, and continuing to be wrong.
I'm sure you would love to see me stand up and tell you and everyone else I was wrong about something. Here is your golden opportunity. Prove me wrong about your attitudes and behaviour.
Now admittedly that will only prove me wrong about future behaviour, what you have done is already beyond you changing... strangely, it's not beyond the power of your alleged god... or so you say. Get him to change the shitty behaviour you have demonstrated maybe?

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

If evolution is a fact, then it can't be proved wrong. Or it'd not been a fact.

I explained to you that i don't believe there's a such thing as an atheist. You don't respect my beliefs.

[Walrus_au]

"I'm not being dishonest. I really believe evolution is of the devil and think you really are demon possessed."
Finally some honesty from you. Sadly I actually believe that statement you just made. It makes me weep for the species.

"The deceived is not in a position to know they are deceived. "
Well, I have to agree with you there. You are demonstrating it very clearly.
Luckily for me, I operate based on things that bypass biases and deception. That was the very purpose of the development of the scientific method. A way to test hypothesis against reality where the opinions and wishes of the tester cannot change the result.

You're gathering your whole worldview from one book, that claims it's accuracy by referencing itself.

"That's why you mock."
No, that which I just said is why I mock. I treat with mockery and derision that which deserves it.
~"That which is asserted without evidence, should be dismissed just as easily."~
- A quote known as Hitchens' Razor. Made famous by Christopher Hitchens.

It is the duty of every member of society to ridicule the ridiculous.

[Walrus_au]

"Mock all you want, reprobate. You'll be the one weeping and in confusion after death. "

BRILLIANT!!! YES. Let's drill down on this!

Now, if we were to, for a hypothetical, assume your view of things is true.
Let's also, for this scenario, say that both you and I died in some horrible freak accident tomorrow.
I assume you would go to heaven right?
Where, according to you and your bible, you get to watch the torture of those in hell.
Now since I don't buy this god story, that would put me in hell, where you get to watch me tortured for eternity right?

That doesn't strike you as just a bit immoral? Just a bit downright evil?
I spend my professional life caring for those who cannot care for themselves. I volunteer my time on phone lines to help people in crisis. but because I don't buy this god story, you are going to relish watching me tortured for all eternity?

Think about that.
Your religion has destroyed your morality.

I know you don't want to think that through. You are probably terrified of doing so - after all, this is something that some evil devil is telling you right? The evil devil that volunteers hours of his time talking people through their crisies? That one.

You don't know me. You seem to think you do, you seem to think you understand me and can put words in my mouth. Your foul manners aside, the truth is, you don't know me at all. But you are relishing the idea of watching me tortured for all eternity. And you believe you have the moral high ground?

~"You're kinda loosin' the moral high ground there sweet-cheeks!"~ Zoe Washburn (Firefly)

[Walrus_au]

Ohhh you poor poor uneducated fool.

Evolution is a fact. The fact of evolution is that species change over time. It is an observed fact, that is it, period.

The theory of evolution by way of natural selection, is one of the best supported theories in all of science. And it EXPLAINS the fact of evolution.

You can appologise for your rude outburst any time you like. You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath.

[Walrus_au]

"I explained to you that i don't believe there's a such thing as an atheist. You don't respect my beliefs."

You are right. I do NOT respect your beliefs. Your beliefs are shameful to you.

That is not, however, the same thing as not respecting you. My respect for you gets eroded every time you display this kind of disrespectful behaviour.
I simply explained to you why your beliefs are wrong, in that they do not match reality.
You proceeded to assume you know my mind better than I do, ignore me advising you otherwise repeatedly, and attempt to deny my existance.

I am an atheist. I do NOT accept the proposition that any god or gods exist. Period, that is all that that means. Despite your claims to insert other garbage into it. If you had listened and learned, you wouldn't have lost so much respect for your person as you did.

Your beliefs however, your religion. Is a set of ideas. it is not a person. Ideas deserve only the respect they earn. And those ideas have earned none.

[Walrus_au]

Your dismissal and hatred of learning, education and the like, is another aspect of these beliefs that is downright immoral.

YOU should be better than this. you COULD be.
Sitting there telling other human beings they are filth just because they don't agree with you. Is that moral, or civilised behaviour?
Apparently it's what your religion demands. Which shows that that religion is making you immoral and uncivilised.

Think about it.

Now, I have an early start, for a 13 hour shift at work. These disabled kids aren't going to be able to look after themselves now are they?

There is MORE than enough here for you to think over. And if you think you have run out, scroll up, try reading some of the stuff you disregarded and ignored.

You might even come to see what I was saying about how much bullshit you were pushing into my mouth.

If you want to know what someone thinks it involves 2 steps.
1) ask them
2) LISTEN to the answer. It's that last step you kept falling apart on.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You said if evolution was to be proved wrong tho. So that would mean it wasn't a fact if it were proved wrong.

I'm a man after the heart of spiritual learning. You're a man after the heart of physical learning. I don't care about science. The Holy Ghost is wise enough to teach me what I need to know. You know that because you aren't able to understand spiritual things since you walk by the things of the natural or physical. You only care about science and nothing else.

I'd you choose Hell, it is your fault. God is trying to match you up for a match that meets your afterlife. You know that you can choose to accept Jesus as savior and not worry about Hell. You choose not to so you caused your torment if you do not rebuke your unbelief prior to death.

You don't respect my belief about there really are not any atheists, then I don't respect your belief that because you think there is a such thing that it means there is a such thing.

I don't need to ask what you believe. I know what you believe. You believe rocks eventually became fish and fish became monkeys and monkeys because humans. You believe humans are just mere animals. You have an absurd world view. You believe death is the eternal champion of the universe.

Who freaking cares if I disrespect you? You shouldn't care as a claimed atheist. Showing emotion proves you know God exists. You going to be a freaking atheist, be honest and live like it and don't justify morality over immorality. You don't have any obligation to choose morality over immorality.

I find it very sickening that you can deny the very God you know exists and have the audacity to give me a spiritual speech.

I'm one of those all people know God exists type of man.

Also, you have a wusses concept of Christianity to call it a religion. It is a disgrace to what Jesus and our relation to God and the Holy Ghost is. I'm offended by that and I find you reprobate to the core. I don't think the Holy Ghost wants or respects you.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Why are my beliefs shameful but yours aren't? You literally believe we came from monkeys. You never observed that so you have no scientific basis to day that. Otherwise, it is your religious belief.

Why can't I believe that there is no such thing as an atheist but you can believe there is a such thing as an atheist?

I'm not stupid just because I believe in creation and you believe in evolution. I'm calling calling you stupid for yours, so respect me and don't call me stupid for mine.

I thought you wanted an amends agreement where we don't disrespect each other? You just trying to convert me to evolution and atheism. I'm not for those religions. Can't you just accept that from me?

[Walrus_au]

“Why are my beliefs shameful but yours aren't?”

Ohhh that is utterly precious.
You are SOOOO desparate to find things to take offence to that you wouldn’t listen to what I say in case it made sense right?

Why are your beliefs shameful? Ignoring that I told you that already, let us name the ways
- They demand you eschew basic education, and denounce those who pursue it
- They relegate women to second class citizens at best
- They insist that anyone who doesn’t agree is treated as less than human
- They denude and degrade your morality, encouraging you to support what is otherwise morally unsupportable.
- They are based on a book that promotes slavery, rape, genocide, infanticide and so on and so on.
And that is just for starters.

[Walrus_au]

“You literally believe we came from monkeys. You never observed that so you have no scientific basis to day that. Otherwise, it is your religious belief.”
Whooooie – there is another one. Your beliefs demand that instead of listening to and learning from others, you dictate to them what they believe and think. AGAIN STOP FUCKING TELLING ME WHAT I BLOODYWELL BELIEVE you fucking pig-ignorant rude as fuck supporter of criminal organizations!
Not that I think for a moment you will suddenly grow some manners and stop.
What I BELIEVE about the origins of humans is irrelevant. We have proven that humans are part of the primate order, which includes monkeys, apes, chimpanzees and the older species that led to humans as they are
A timeline and links to evidence of the evolutionary history of humans
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html
The fact that I accept this information is in no way comparable to the word belief as you use it.
The theory of evolution that explains the known facts of our relationship to the rest of the order Primate has been very solidly evidenced
www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

[Walrus_au]

“Why can't I believe that there is no such thing as an atheist but you can believe there is a such thing as an atheist?”

Ohhh boo hoo – that mean atheist is saying it’s improper for me to deny the facts of what is in front of me.
Of course you CAN. In the same way as the guy locked in the asylum can believe he is spider-man.
Another example of the abominablility of this religious structure you bend over backward to deny what is obviously in front of you.
And frankly for you to demand that anyone respect such a belief is an insult to everyone else’s intelligence. It’s an insult to yours too, but it’s your intelligence, if you want to insult it who am I to gainsay you?

“I'm not stupid just because I believe in creation and you believe in evolution.”
I’m not calling you stupid for believing in creation. You are a victim of religion. I pitty you for that. I call you pig-ignorant for your behavior and disrespect. But then I don’t expect you to actually read this and understand or accept the difference.

[Walrus_au]

“ I'm calling calling you stupid for yours, so respect me and don't call me stupid for mine.”
Actually, you are calling me evil and demonic and demon possessed. I haven’t pointed out how utterly disrespectful and rude that is, I doubt it would do any good, after all, I am evil, demonic and demon possessed right? Why should you use manners basic respect and human decency with me right? (we discussed how your religion is degrading and destroying your humanity right?)

“I thought you wanted an amends agreement where we don't disrespect each other? You just trying to convert me to evolution and atheism. I'm not for those religions. Can't you just accept that from me?”
I’d be fine if you want to be civilized with each other. And since I have only ever offered you disrespect in response to your disrespect of me. You’ll excuse me if I don’t take your request seriously until you stop disrespecting me and start listening when I tell you what I think and believe – instead of telling me that.
In light of that behavior, it is clear what you want from me is to shut the fuck up and cow-tow to your beliefs.
That, sunshine, is never going to happen.
I have never once tried to ‘convert’ you, or anyone else to any religion, or even from any religion. I lay out the reality in front of you. None of it requires denouncing christianity, there are plenty of christians who have studied these things, accept the truths in them, understand the strengths of the theories and have seen that they have yet to be disproven.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html

[Walrus_au]

Now, I will bet, you will come at me again, bleating about me being disrespectful to you (not true as covered, I do however have no respect at all for your religion or beliefs) and trying to tell me a straw man version of what you think I believe and think.
That behaviour is shameful. You should be embarrassed about it. Hell I am embarrassed as a human on your behalf.

So while you continue that behaviour, why should I want to sing kum ba yah with you? And for that matter, why do you want to sing kum ba yah with a demonic, demon possessed person? You’re the one that described me that way, was that respectful or civilized, or possessed of the most basic of human decency? Because it was driven by your religion and religious beliefs, those that you demand I respect, those beliefs that have been (as we keep discussing) eroding your morality and basic decency.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Religion is not a victimizer. It doesn't attack you. If it did, you are a victim of the religion of evolution.

Oh, same way I think it makes no sense for you to think atheists exists, you think it makes no sense to think the Holy Ghost exists.

I can play this crap back at you.

You only give evolution sources because you believe in it. I don't. If I gave creation sources, you'd pass it off. Yet if I pass off your evolution sources, I'm ignorant. Then you are ignorant for passing off creation sources.

You care about the natural world only. Nature is not another word for real. Just because something isn't natural, doesn't mean it isn't real.

Look!! I'm just wanting you to have a spiritual teacher of the Holy Ghost and not from Satan.

Also, you don't know what the future holds. You don't have foreknowledge. You may get a Holy Ghost awakening and value salvation in the future.

You believe your evolutionism stance is superior to my creationism stance and nothing you say can deny that.

[Walrus_au]

You've just proved my point. You didn't listen to a damn thing that was told to you.
Your idolisation and worship of ignorance is embarassing to those of us who would rather learn about the world around us.

You rant about science, evolution and atheism being relgions because the priests who 'teach' you about them have a vested interest in your ignorance of the facts. And this assumes that they know better.

At some point your deliberate ignorance is going to move from amusing to boring. And since you are so practiced at ignorant belligerence and disrespect, what will you trade on to try to keep people talking to you then?

There really is no point in telling you again things you have been told and explained repeatedly.
You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
If you were a horse you would die of thirst.

But that is your choice.

The fact you would rather stick your fingers in your ears, disrespect those who are willing to give you a chance to understand the world around you makes you just the same as every other victim of religious brainwashing and ignorance.

The final lynch-pin comes down to this one question.
You have already answered your side of it.
What would it take for you to change your mind?
You made it plain that nothing would do.

And again I explain to you that reasonable evidence would do it for me.

I'm certain that you will ignore what I am telling you here as well - why break with tradition now?

Just remember, if ever it gets questioned and you attempt to characterise my opinions your way. That continues your career as a lair with a speciality in intellectual dishonesty.

To highlight that, I will mention, again, that this attempt to characterise the theory of evolution as a religion portrays not only how dishonest you have been, but how you know that information issued through religion and belief is in no way reliable.

[Walrus_au]

If ever you feel the need to reconsider this career, come back, read through this thread and think about what went on.

Perhaps one day you will realise your arrogance and ignorance here.

In the mean-time. Just in case you need someone else to explain it to you, I offer you a challenge.
Think of it as pennance for your bad behaviour
http://www.atheist-experience.com/
On the left side there is a link to call from your computer for free. They are a live call in show.
And to get you salavating, they will take your call, and you get the chance to explain to whoever is hosting how wrong they are and how they are demon possessed, and why you think so.

And if you wanted to make up for your utter disrespect to me, call in, mention my 'name' (I'll be the first to acknowledge that Walrus is my handle, based on a nickname, not my real name) I listen regularly. So you'd get another shot to try to convince me too. Only this time I wouldn't be burning time explaining things to you for you to ignore and disrespect by not reading or considering.

Good luck with the call.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I don't call reprobate shows who willfully sin with unbelief. They choose not to trust in God for salvation.

Also, you are ignorant and arrogant of the spiritual world. Because you don't understand how it could exist, you have it decided that it can't exist. I'm not science oriented like you. I don't lean towards the science apologists and evolution apologists and supporters. I care more about the spiritual world, not the natural world. The natural world only explains how things are, not why things are. I don't care about how things in this world happened. I care about why our afterlife needs a match according to whether we believed, disbelieved, did immoral sex, etc.

You rant and mock the spiritual world. You are ignorant of it like I'm ignorant of the natural world.

What makes the natural world more important and special than the spiritual world?

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Quit being butt hurt that I don't care about how the natural world works. It isn't that important for me to know. I don't need to know about it to live. I only need to know minimal things about it like what to eat, how to keep warm and a few other things.

[Walrus_au]

Not only delusional, but with an entirely messed up set of priorities.

You are part of the natural world.
And you would rather immerse yourself in a fantasy story than reality.
Not that that is that unusual, but your prefered option is a story all about rape, torture, genocide, incest and the like...

It's your life, if you want to waste it that way, fill your boots.

My main problem with that is the bigotry and vile bullshit you spread in the name of your fantasy and imaginary friend. And that is because it does real harm to real people.

Now I understand that as part of the natural world, you really don't care about others. But the rest of us do.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Calling the spiritual world as a fantasy world without proof makes you just as dishonest as me to call the spiritual world real without proof but I have my proof.

So freaking what that I'm living in the natural world. Doesn't mean I'm concerned with it. You'll be living in the spiritual world one day and don't want to prepare for it by trying to match your afterlife up with a belief soul than an unbelief soul.

Why are you choosing to live in unbelief by mocking the very God you know exists? You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Thought you are against forcing beliefs in others?

You are trying to force me to care for the natural world more than the spiritual world just because you do. You are the bigot there. Admit it.

[Walrus_au]

Not at all. If you want to just care about your fantasy world, fine and dandy. Just stop doing harm to those in the real world and the real world will leave you there.

Quit pushing your bigotry and we'll let you live your fantasy all alone.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Calling it a fantasy doesn't mean it is.

And if you want to do harm by assuming the only real world is the natural world, you are ignorant. People of the flesh are ignorant of the spiritual things.

You are so arrogant that you think natural is all that is real.

Your mom and daughter wants to kiss me. I'm going to send them kisses.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You are pushing your bigotry, wuss.

You are mad that I don't care about the natural world as much as the spiritual world. You aren't allowing me to pick what I care about without trying to convert me to.

No matter what you say, you think I am stupid for not believing like you.

You think I'm stupid for not believing in evolution like you.

[Walrus_au]

You are welcome to believe your fantasy shit.

You are NOT welcome to push that shit on others, to harm others real lives with your bigotry.
When you do, someone who cares about real people over your fantasy story will call you out.

Freedom of religion is NOT the freedom to discriminate.

While you do this, I call out your bigotry and so will others.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

It's not a fantasy just because you say it is.

Can't prove a negative, can't use a negative.

Quit cussing at me and quit replying to me. It's harassment. You have knowledge that I don't want to be replied to and this is my question, so I have the right to set the rules.

You push your religion of evolution.

I don't believe in evolution. Deal with it. Stop trying to convert me to believe in it. I believe in creation. You're the one damaging people. Calling evolution a fact doesn't mean it is. It's your belief. You even said so in an earlier reply if it was proven wrong. If it is proven wrong, then it was not a fact.

[Walrus_au]

"It's not a fantasy just because you say it is."

I have answered this, but then, Since you are about as intellectually dishonest as anyone can come, I'm hardly surprised you don't acknowledge that.

So for shits and giggles, I'll answer again. No, my stating it is a fantasy fiction is a description not a pro-scription. What identifies it as such as it's lack of attachment to reality.

"Can't prove a negative, can't use a negative."
You just did bright spark, you used a negative.
Things can be disproved. and while I don't have conclusive proof that SOME kind of god doesn't exist. With what we know about reality and the world around us, we know that the vile, narcissistic, piece of crap you call a god does not concur with reality and is entirely logically impossible.

Bet you don't actually read this either. dishonest slug that you are.

[Walrus_au]

"Quit cussing at me and quit replying to me. It's harassment. You have knowledge that I don't want to be replied to and this is my question, so I have the right to set the rules."

Ohhh poor puddin' You put the bloody question up there. And while it doesn't surprise me that someone as intellectually dishonest as you would not want real answers, guess what, if someone asks a question, people may well answer it. Those of us that are honest will answer it with honesty. those that are dishonest will cower, whine and bleat complaints when they can't handle the reality that answers it.

You put up a public post, answering it is not harassment. I told you that when you disrespect me, I will feel free to bloodywell swear all I want. It didn't take you long to disrespect me.

but then I bet you didn't read that bit either, just another example of your dishonesty and disrespect.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

So what? It's my question. It's my rules. I said quit replying, so you should.

Also, you see? You claim God is an impossibility because He isn't proven. So? DNA was once unproven but it existed before we discovered it. Things don't just exist upon discovery. Things can exist before we know they exist.

I'm not dishonest and who cares if it was disrespect? It bothering you makes your 'atheism' a joke. If there is no afterlife, we all get equal balancing so any moral or immoral deed is no more superior or inferior to the other one.

You believe in God no matter what you say because God has been written upon all hearts. Even people who claim not to believe in God, believe they are God or play God. If someone killed your family or friends, you'd likely kill them, thus playing God, meaning you think you are God, by deciding when their life should end.

[Walrus_au]

"You push your religion of evolution."

And here we go again, you just cannot help yourself can you? I don't think there is an honest bone in your body.

Evolution is a set of facts, best described as species changing over time. These are just simple, observed facts.
The theory of evolution by natural selection, is the best supported scientific theory in the world. It is the best explanation we have for why species change over time, what causes it, how it happens. Not only is there mountains of evidence for it, not only has it been observed, not only does it make predictions about other observations that have proved to be correct. But humans have been able to use the explanation to drive selection and species change ourselves.

It is no more a religion than the manual to your TV remote is a religion.

But I understand, that these facts are very uncomfortable for you, and don't let you lie to yourself and others so easily about your fantasy story.
THAT is not my fault, it is not scientists fault, it is not the fault of anyone who is not involved in creating or maintaining the fantasy you keep pushing.

[Walrus_au]

"I don't believe in evolution. Deal with it. Stop trying to convert me to believe in it. I believe in creation. "
As I pointed out before. Firstly, it's not about believing in evolution - especially not as you understand the term believing. Secondly
I don't give a tinkers toss what you believe.
If you want to believe the moon is made of green cheese, I don't give a fuck.

When you push that belief on others, I have a problem.
When you use that belief to denegrade other human beings, to attempt to harm their lives, to hurt others. Then you and me have issues.

So if you don't want me to be bothered about your belief in the creationist fantasy. The answer is simple.
Stop denigrating others. Let other humans have equal rights, stop slandering homosexual people, trans-sexual people, people who don't hold your fantasy story 'holy'.
Basically, live and let live. You know, the stuff you weren't doing. The shitting on other people is just not acceptable in my book.

[Walrus_au]

"You're the one damaging people."

You saying that doesn't make it so. Prove it.
I'm harmful to these bullshit ideologies I would hope. But that's not people, that's toxic and garbage ideas.

"Calling evolution a fact doesn't mean it is."

No, the fact it is a fact does. Species change over time. Observed fact. That is called evolution. Fact. There are facts of evolution, that's them.

" It's your belief. You even said so in an earlier reply if it was proven wrong. If it is proven wrong, then it was not a fact. "

It has not been proven wrong. Funny you would manage to pick up on that line, despite all the rest that was written and carefully explained to you.

[Walrus_au]

"So what? It's my question. It's my rules. I said quit replying, so you should."
This is you not replying? Imagine my surprise. But then I have learned not to expect either honesty or reference to reality from you.

"You claim God is an impossibility because He isn't proven."
Another example of where your dishonesty and disrespect has had you fall into your own trap. No. I think your god is an impossibility because the character is entirely logically impossible.

I don't buy ANY god story because there hasn't been any evidence. Thor for example, has a step up on your god because he's at least logically consistant. Thus I am more likely to buy thor mythology than yours.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Evolution is not a fact. You said if it is proven wrong as an 'if' clause. That means if it was proven wrong, it wouldn't be a fact.

Also, calling things a fantasy means you are saying it doesn't exist, making it a negative. You can not use a negative if you can not prove a negative.

Evolution is a religion. You're to ignorant to understand that. Also, too ignorant to understand that 'atheists' are usually more religious than theists or at-least Christians. It's been shown.

www.theatlantic.com/.../

Also, you're trying to bully me for not believing in evolution. I'm not bullying you for not believing in creation. So why do it?

Creation is not a fantasy just because you say so. I already know you believe in God so I don't know why I'm taking the time to reply by playing with you about this.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God is not a story and it doesn't matter what you buy.

[Walrus_au]

"DNA was once unproven but it existed before we discovered it. Things don't just exist upon discovery. Things can exist before we know they exist."

At no point was DNA logically impossible.

And the correct time to believe something is AFTER it is met it's burden of proof.
Using your logic, you are requied to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Russel's teapot etc etc They haven't been disproven. they just haven't been proven yet.
And your disrespect to one of his followers is making the Flying Spaghetti Monster more and more angry. You should bow down in fear of his wrath!

"I'm not dishonest and who cares if it was disrespect?"

You have been truly monumentally intellectually dishonest. And who the fuck cares if I bloodywell swear? Fuck your dishonest shit.
I know you don't give a single solitary fuck if other people are disrespected by your shit. That's the problem with your beliefs, they are shitty to others. which wouldn't matter if you didn't act that way.

"It bothering you makes your 'atheism' a joke. If there is no afterlife, we all get equal balancing so any moral or immoral deed is no more superior or inferior to the other one."

And you can't accept that someone not swallowing your pill of horseshit religion is anything other than just saying "I don't buy that crap"
thus you are desperate to try to find some way to make it into a religion. Kinda sad and pathetic really, if that is all you can do to defend and shore up this belief system of yours.

And you want to discuss morality? The only reason you do good things is to buy your stairway to heaven.

When I do something nice for someone, it's because I want to do something nice for someone.

Obedience in you, decision and free will in me. Which one is morality?

[Walrus_au]

"You believe in God no matter what you say because God has been written upon all hearts. Even people who claim not to believe in God, believe they are God or play God. If someone killed your family or friends, you'd likely kill them, thus playing God, meaning you think you are God, by deciding when their life should end. "

And more of that monumentally arrogant ignorant dishonesty of yours.
Pro tip.
Want to know what someone believes - step 1. ASK them. Step 2. LISTEN TO THE ANSWER. Step 3. BELIEVE THEM - ain't no-one who knows what I believe better than me. Apparently you are monumentally bad at it, and remarkably dishonest about it to.

Isn't bearing false witness one of the few halfway decent top 10 rules that your fantasy bully posted for you all to abide by? Doesn't breaking them send you to hell?

You keep bearing false witness about many things, for now let's deal with what I believe.

When we started, it could be forgiven that you didn't know better.
Now, I have told you repeatedly. That makes you ... no no, don't tell me I'll get it
...

Ohhh yeah - it makes you a fucking liar!

[Walrus_au]

Ahhh there we go, more proof of your dishonesty.

As I said previously, there are FACTS of evolution. And there is the theory of evolution by natural selection.

If you want to find out a little more, scroll up to where I told you before.
I understand why that might be uncomfortable for you. It shows up you were wrong.

But you were told this already. Dishonesty thy name is @Holy_Ghost_Fire

there you go, breaking the 10 commandments again. According to your fantasy story, you are going to the bad place...
Don't try to pin that on me, you're the one lying.

Ohh? God is not a story? Funny, there is a couple of books on my shelves that prove you a liar.
The difference is, I say the character is no more than that.

By your own rules, you keep breaking the 10 commandments, why should anyone take you seriously?

And why the fuck should anyone offer you any bloody respect when you can't even do the bare basics of being respectful to another human being?

You are, however, entirely amusing as you chase your tail and froth and rant, Funny as fuck!

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God is not logically impossible either.

Burden of proof is a misnomer. What about your burden to prove nothing happens after death? Yet you believe it without proof. So long as the time being when proof is presented.

You claim to be atheist. Something that can't exist. So what if I bear false witness. You don't think I'm sinning anyways. So you are a hypocrite to say so.

You may think why I do something makes no sense. Also, who cares why you do moral things? You aren't obligated to do it and it is absurd you can comdemn immorality. Following morals means as much as following immorals if the atheists vision of life is true. You have no moral justification to choose morality over immorality.

I don't need to ask what you belief. You may think you believe it but you don't and you would falsely claim to believe it and mostly knowingly lie.

You don't care about my belief in creation. I can call it a fact like you call evolution a fact. Eolution is your religious belief, not mine. You are arrogant to call your beliefs as fact and my beliefs as fantasy. If I did that, you'd bully me.

Cuss all you want, wuss. People who cuss are showing their ignorance.

You only care about the natural world. I only care about the spiritual world. Deal with it and stop bullying me and forcing me to accept your religion and values.

[Walrus_au]

"God is not logically impossible either."

I already explained this to you. Big surprise you didn't read it. Even in the most basic description your fantasy villan is logically impossible. Go back and read it - it's not like you'll be bored, you didn't read it the first time.

"Burden of proof is a misnomer. What about your burden to prove nothing happens after death? Yet you believe it without proof. "

I don't need to prove nothing happens. Firstly, nothing happening is the default. Secondly, nothing important is hanging on this. Should I get to the dead state and discover something else happens, whoopie, I learned something new.
Not holding my breath however. Because, as I told you before, and I bet you didn't read then, and I bet you won't read now. Personality is an emergent property of a neural network. Remove or destroy that there is nothing to provide that emergent property.

[Walrus_au]

"You claim to be atheist. Something that can't exist."

Cool story bro, cept you are wrong about everything. A person who does not believe in the existance of god (s) is an atheist. Guess what, there are a lot of us. Any more intellectual dishonesty you want to try to foist on us. I mean if you had taken a few minutes at the time I first wrote that you'd know what kind of a knob-head you are making of yourself. Don't need my help there.

"So what if I bear false witness. You don't think I'm sinning anyways. So you are a hypocrite to say so."
We are talking about YOUR belief system, I don't have to live by yours, you do.
But then, the way you are acting, you know it's all a false story too. You don't really believe it. I bet you are wearing mixed fabrics, How was the shrimp salad?

"You may think why I do something makes no sense."
Ohhh no, that's not true. If you were to actually believe this crazy fantasy shit, then doing everything possible in terror of the bully that would send you to hell for eternity makes absolute sense.

It just doesn't make you moral.

[Walrus_au]

"Also, who cares why you do moral things? You aren't obligated to do it and it is absurd you can comdemn immorality."
Holy fucking shit - that is hillarious!!! You just actively proved my point. I am NOT obliged to do anytyhing good,, I CHOOSE to. Not because I fear hell or am trying to suck up to an imaginary friend, but because I want to make another person's life a little bit better.

You, by your own admission, would only do it because you fear punishment or want to grease the wheels to get to heaven. (which, according to your story, you can't do because you keep breaking the top 10 rules, and probably most of the other 600 odd too).

As you pointed out - I don't have to abide by that shit. I get to sit back and laugh at your stupid as you break all your own rules!

[Walrus_au]

"Following morals means as much as following immorals if the atheists vision of life is true. You have no moral justification to choose morality over immorality."

You keep working on it little buddy, you'll start making English sentences soon.
And they even reinforce what I was saying!
I don't do nice things because I am obeying some bully imaginary friend. I do them because I CHOOSE to.

You're just trying to suck up to the gatekeeper. Immoral slug.

"I don't need to ask what you belief. You may think you believe it but you don't and you would falsely claim to believe it and mostly knowingly lie."

You are sooooo close to stating the truth - you don't need to ask what anyone else believes, because you don't give a single shit about another living being. And we knew that from the outset.

You don't have a clue what I believe. And the sad irony is, you've been told chunks of it repeatedly. But your pure arrogant ignorance, and monumental narcissism have you thinking you know better than me what I believe.
You have been told repeatedly, again you bear false witness.
You filthy liar of a disrespectful fucking immoral slug.

[Walrus_au]

"You don't care about my belief in creation."
You are dead right. I don't. You can believe any fantasy story you want.
What I care about is your abuse of other humans, in the real world.

"I can call it a fact like you call evolution a fact. Eolution is your religious belief, not mine. You are arrogant to call your beliefs as fact and my beliefs as fantasy."

I have proof, I gave it to you. I guess the words were a bit too long for you to understand. And there wasn't some cruel, narcissistic rapist, misogynistic, genocidal, slave owning character dishing it out, so I guess it didn't interest you enough.

Here on the real world, we look at what is going on around us, we have people who take lots of observations and measurements, and we make sure our theories are solidly tested. That is why we know about how bacteria are developing drug resistance, and how the flue virus changes yearly or more, and how humans are part of the primate order.

You jackasses though, have your fantasy story, and try to tell us bats are birds. You don't give a single shit if what you are drivvelling matches reality. In fact if it did you may have to face how shitty you are to other human beings. but it's ok, your god hates all the same people you do so you don't have to give any shits about another human being right:?

Bullying you?
Calling you out for being a liar is more like it.

"You only care about the natural world. I only care about the spiritual world. Deal with it and stop bullying me and forcing me to accept your religion and values."

Still not listening I see.
I only care about the natural world as it is the only world we know we have.
And you still struggle with the idea that someone doesn't swallow a fantasy story - no religion, just reality.

I'll quit Pointing out what a shit-head you are when you stop being a shit-head to people.
What you believe is irrelevant, what you say and do affects others.

[Walrus_au]

So just what is the next line of monumental arrogant ignorance are you going to shoot my way that you've already had explained to you?

This is like one of those carnival games...

[Walrus_au]

you're the one supposed to live with all these rules and obey to be considered moral...
And you happily break them to lie here, and be monumentally prideful and arrogant, you disrespect your elders, you do not love your neighbours I bet you wear mixed fabrics, and eat shrimp coctail.

Me, I just sit here and keep correcting you. And laugh at your stupid till I have tears in my eyes.
Now I tell you what I am doing... I think that makes me petty.
I mean I have been honest, I have shown you all the respect you have shown me, and then some, I have offered you education.
And here I am laughing and being petty telling you about it.
But then, point 1 - I am pretty sure your magic book doesn't say anything about not being petty (not that it would matter because) point 2 - I don't have to abide by your magic book or imaginary friend.

So, I am being petty, and it's funny as fuck!

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

By calling God imaginary friend shows you have a wusses' concept of who God is.

You can say nothing happens by default. It is still your belief without evidence.

Unbelief sets you up for an afterlife that most matches the soul you choose to adjust with. That is why unbelief damages you with God.

You can't hold me to a standard that you don't follow yourself. That makes you a hypocrite.

I don't eat shellfish and I only wear robes.

Who cares what you choose? Choosing morality is not special. By condemning an immoral action if no afterlife, makes you foolish.

I'm not a primate. I'm made in God's image.

I am anti-vaccination and calling God imaginary doesn't make it so.

If evolution is a theory, it means it is unknown to be a fact or fiction. It is a postulation.

[Walrus_au]

you know, I have spoken to a lot of religious folks, many of them nut-jobs

But I have to hand it too you. None of them have your talent for cramming that much wrong into one paragraph.

And you are sitting there lying outrageously the whole time, since I have already told you, the answers to all of these questions will be found above.

That would of course require you accept reality, I know that we are safe from that, it would show your shit up for the fantasy magic it is.

Watching your lies and skills and packing more wrong into a sentence than there are words is entertaining.

But it might be better if you didn't make it soooo fucking easy.

This really is like taking candy from a baby.
try reading my responses and responding with some intellectual honesty.

Bwahahaha what am I saying, you are way too cowardly to try that. you are terrified that letting reality in would show you how wrong you are.

Let's be honest, you and I both know that if there was any truth in your stories, no amount of reality would harm them.

As far as answering your claims - rinse and repeat, it's all above.
you keep saying the same bullshit, it was wrong then, it's just as wrong now, the difference is now you know better.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

By calling God an imaginary friend shows you have a wusses' concept of who God is. No real person recognizes God as a friend like in friendships but more as a leader and guider.

You can say nothing happening is the default. It still is your belief that nothing happens after death and there's no evidence that nothing happens after death. You are still reserving judgment that death is the eternal champion of the universe. Treat it like math if you're truly neutral and don't assume a solution whether in the positive (affirmative) or the negative. Most people who believe in an afterlife aren't claiming to know, so people who believe there isn't shouldn't assume there isn't.

Unbelief sets you up for an afterlife that most matches the soul you chose to live as during earthly life that you may adjust to after death. That's why unbelief damages you with God. You may end up struggling and or suffering.

You can't hold me to a standard that you don't follow yourself. That makes you a hypocrite. Sure, if it is what you used to do but learnt it was bad, you'd have a reason to tell me not to do as you used to do but this isn't the case if you currently hold that belief.

I don't eat shellfish and I only wear robes. Don't know why you assume you know my diet.

Who cares what you choose? Nothing matters if there is no Hell to go to for it. You can say but I do it out of want or love but so what. You condemning an evil person holds no atheistic merit. It's an absurdity to think so that morality is superior to immorality.

I'm not a primate. I'm made in God's image.

I am anti-vaccination and calling God imaginary doesn't make it so.

[Walrus_au]

“By calling God an imaginary friend shows you have a wusses' concept of who God is. No real person recognizes God as a friend like in friendships but more as a leader and guider.”

you keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
Of course, to take it further than that would require I give you far more credit and respect than you have earned in all of that.
So, why do I call your god an imaginary friend?
1) because it's an excellently accurate descriptor – talking about the imaginary part, the friend part, well... I have read that book you claim is the answer to everything. That god character, as I keep pointing out, is someone I would not have anything to do with.
2) Let's face it, as good and accurate a descriptor, I do it because it annoys you. Because with all your douschebaggery and foul treatment of other humans, I figure turn about is fair.

“You can say nothing happening is the default. It still is your belief that nothing happens after death and there's no evidence that nothing happens after death.”
Why do you keep putting so much effort into proving my points for me?
The time to believe something is when there is good evidence that it exists.
I don't specifically believe nothing happens when we die. I simply have no reason to believe otherwise.
I type this knowing that you won't read a word of it or...
Ohhhh wait... maybe I have been giving you WAY too much credit.
Have I been using words that are too big for you to understand?

[Walrus_au]

“You are still reserving judgment that death is the eternal champion of the universe.”

And here goes that cock-sucking cunt again, wandering around telling people what they believe. AND getting it far more wrong than a stage magician.

Death is a part of life. It is one of the driving forces of evolution by natural selection, one of the most critical ones.

“Treat it like math if you're truly neutral and don't assume a solution whether in the positive (affirmative) or the negative.”

How long did it take you to understand what I was saying.
I have a jar with jelly beans in it. You are telling me there is an even number.
I am telling you you cannot know that, you cannot be assured of being right. Maybe there is an even number. But until someone counts them, no-one can know, so I am not going to declare there is an even or odd number. I DON'T KNOW.
That must be such a frightening phrase for you. Because you swallow entirely garbage fantasies to claim you do know.
Punchline for you wonder-boy. YOU DONT KNOW. And that is the ONLY intellectually honest answer.

[Walrus_au]

“Most people who believe in an afterlife aren't claiming to know, so people who believe there isn't shouldn't assume there isn't.”

Absolutely you should assume there isn't, because there isn't evidence for it.
I have a car to sell you, you don't know if it has an engine, but my book says it does, so you should assume it does. And no, you can't look under the hood before you buy it.

[Walrus_au]

“Unbelief sets you up for an afterlife that most matches the soul you chose to live as during earthly life that you may adjust to after death. That's why unbelief damages you with God. You may end up struggling and or suffering.”

If I don't buy this entirely unrealistic god fantasy, and I am not going to assume that an afterlife exists without evidence. Why should your threats bother me?
Are you scared of me punching you in the aura?
What blithering stupidity.

“You can't hold me to a standard that you don't follow yourself. That makes you a hypocrite.”

You're the one holding yourself to a standard of evidence. I'm holding you to the basic standard of human decency, a concept about which your understanding is becoming more and more clear in its ignorance.
Your god beliefs stop you from being a decent human being. It's quite sad really. I do what I can to treat others decently, I ask that you do the same thing. You find your fantasy story more important than living people.

“I don't eat shellfish and I only wear robes. Don't know why you assume you know my diet.”
Not assuming, betting. And without proof, I won't assume I lost the bet.

“Who cares what you choose? Nothing matters if there is no Hell to go to for it.”

Again, thankyou for proving my point about your immorality.

[Walrus_au]

“You can say but I do it out of want or love but so what.”

the point is I do it because I choose to, not because some fucking asshole bully character is threatening me with eternal torture. You really can't grasp this concept?

“You condemning an evil person holds no atheistic merit.”

I don't strictly speaking condemn evil, because I don't find it a useful concept. I condemn them as being anti-social, vicious, sadistic, cruel that kind of thing.

And as for 'atheistic merit' it has nothing to do with the existence or not of god (s)

“It's an absurdity to think so that morality is superior to immorality.”

Society being cohesive and not hurting each other is better for the society than attacking and killing each other. Are you really THAT dense?

[Walrus_au]

“I'm not a primate. I'm made in God's image.”
Sadly for the rest of us, you do shame the order primate and species homo sapiens sapiens with your location in those classifications.
And no – god is made in your image, not the other way around.

I am anti-vaccination and calling God imaginary doesn't make it so.
You're a delusional anti-social bigot. one who is determined to kill others.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Calling God a fantasy is what wusses do.

Steven Bancarz proved angels and demons exist. He is the #1 Christian YouTuber who exposes 'atheists' and new-agers. He is who new agers and atheists fear. He proves we live in a universe where demons exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Sbs0YOGk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpJjf2ZIsjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4lUGeFCnI

Selling me a car? What the heck are you talking about. A car is not comparable to salvation. How is it?

So what if I'm anti social? You're pro social. Our social status is meaningless in a universe ungoverned and unguided if God is not the creator.

I am made and God's image and so are you. You just deny the fact.

Death is not a part of life. It occurs after life. There is no point in which death arises from life. If we are death, then we have no life, at-least not in the natural sense.

You are hypocritical. You claim what you want me to respect your views if they differ from mine but when I have views that differ like anti-vaccine, you bully me for them. I don't bully you for pro-vaccine views. I'm not a murderer. I don't agree with it being mandatory that vaccinations occur. You 99% likely not only agree with vaccines but want it mandatory and invading people's views who oppose it.

Quit bullying me and harassing me. If you're all about the natural man and don't like my spiritual views, then don't come here. Don't make me inform @BeeNee or @dangerDoge who are admins here about you. I've asked you a few times to stop the bullying. This is my MyTake/question, so I have the right to ask you not to come to my house. You want me to force you away with a block but I'm not going to stoop to your wishes. Leave me alone about it. I've stated my stance. You're only concerned with the natural world. I'm concerned with both worlds: natural and spiritual.

[dangerDoge]

@Walrus_au and @Holy_Ghost_Fire
Lively debate is perfectly acceptable, but antagonizing each other with name-calling or whatnot is not allowed. If you do not wish to see someone's opinions or comments, please refer to blocking and using the I don't want to see feature.
https://www.girlsaskguys.com/faq/features#76

[Walrus_au]

Ahhh dishonesty thy name is @holy_ghost_fire

Your imaginary friend can't hack the light of reality, so you chuck a tantrum.
Way to represent.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

@Walrus_au
I represent my true existence: both physically and naturally. I'm not a luke-warm person like you who only represents 50% of my existence (you only represent the natural portion of your existence and not the spiritual portion). I represent 100% of my existence.

[Walrus_au]

@Angels-vs-Demons And you claim I do not represent 100% of my existance? you want me to take the 'spiritual existance' seriously, prove it. Until then, I will take it just as seriously as my relationship with the flying spaghetti monster.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

Existence, not existance.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

Okay and I will not take my natural existence seriously. Prove my natural existence.

[Walrus_au]

@Angels-vs-Demons I was careless with my spelling there, fair.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

So you got mad and blocked my account, eh?

I'm not proving anything to reprobates. Believe as you wish and choose to believe. I already know all people believe God exist, whether He does or doesn't.

[Walrus_au]

@Angels-vs-Demons mad? nope.

Bored and sick of your lazy and extreme intellectual dishonesty.

I see that hasn't changed.
And it is clear you have no respect for any persons who don't buy into your fantasy story. Why should I give a single solitary shit what you think?

So much time bleating about how you find swearing so offensive. Just to be far more rude and disrespectful than I ever could have.

Hypocrisy layered on dishonesty layered on dogged adherence to ignorance of the world around you.

None of that matters a damn to me.

But when you start harming others, then I have a fucking problem. you clearly don't give a single solitary shit about other humans.
You have to be the first person I have met that I cannot honestly say I think they are more moral than their god.

You want to stop being 'harrassed' quit bullying and harrassing others based on bullshit and bigotry.

I'll bet money you won't do that. Wanna win money?

[Angels-vs-Demons]

I'm less moral than God.

I don't care about betting.

The point is I don't care if you claim to be atheist. I don't believe they exist, so I'm not changing my belief. You're the same way. You don't care if I don't believe you. You think if you believe something, it must be the truth. All people believe they are right.

Also, I'm pro vaccine. You claim to respect beliefs different from yours but don't. You claim I'm anti-social. So what? You're pro social. It means nothing in a universe if its ungoverned and unguided. All things are permissible. Rape and murder would just be opinions and not immoral action.

You say you can be good without God but don't realize that being good without belief in God and being good without God are 2 different things. If God exist, then if He took Himself out of existence, you'd not know if you could or not if God exists.

[Walrus_au]

@Angels-vs-Demons Not sure if it is reading or comprehension that you have trouble with.

No, I at no time claimed to respect beliefs.
Beliefs are ideas, and they do not, by default, deserve any respect. they get the respect they earn.

PEOPLE get to start with a reasonable level of respect. Their behaviour then modifies this.

Your behaviour clearly shows you have no respect for others, you have shown a desire to see other humans harmed and tortured. so why should that not be reflected in other's respect for you (or in this case lack thereof)

You earn the respect you get. If you want any, you're gonna have to EARN it. shitting on others and acting arrogantly holier than thou is NOT a good way to earn respect., it's a good way to demonstrate your bigotry. Something you are only too happy to do, repeatedly.

In your case, it seems to also be a way for you to peacock your ignorance and rudeness. Congratulations, you have - ironically - made it so much easier for the rest of us to get your measure and know how little time you are worth.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

Steven Bancarz already proved demons exist in those videos.

You don't respect my anti vaccine views because you want something to be against with me. You choose to be against things just to cause war.

If it's because I'm aggressive, I have a history. When I was 19, I had sex with a 7 year old girl but God healed me from that sin 6 months later.

[Walrus_au]

@Angels-vs-Demons
Somehow I don't find it surprising that you think statutory rape and the ruining of the entirity of a little girl's life can be forgiven by an imaginary friend.

After all, she was just a woman, you can buy them for enough sheckles right?

So far you have managed to loose more respect, I didn't think that was possible! Quite the effort.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

You mean lose, not loose.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

Call God imaginary all you want. I already know all believe God exist. God declared that all people are without excuse to His existence.

[Tamera952]

Amen so true

[Tamera952]

You can be offended all you want, but you won’t be telling me I can’t cuss in a public forum.

[Daniela1982]

Walrus, grow the hell up. If you don't believe in God then what are you doing in this thread besides trolling? You need to calm the hell down and talk to people with respect no matter what their views.

[BlacklightShade]

@Holy_Ghost_Fire is the same user as @Exorcist_Rampage. I don’t doubt he’s got some other sock puppets around here too. He probably created a few accounts to jump in and defend himself.

[Walrus_au]

@Daniela1982
You seem to be using a variant of "why are you atheists so angry?".
Or
"Atheists keep talking about god, you mustn't really be an atheist to be so fixated on god you must believe in him."

Whilst also labouring under some misapprehensions about respect.

So why are atheists talking about god so much? For the same reason doctors talk about disease so much.

Why do we care? Because beliefs inform actions, and when beliefs include the things that are in the bible, they should be stopped as soon as possible to stop their harm.

As to respect. I offer ideas and philosophies as much respect as they earn. This whole you must respect religions is garbage.

The people espousing those religions on the other hand, start with basic respect, then earn themselves more or less depending on their behaviour.

Keep utilising bad beliefs to call for harm to others and guess which way that respect ladder goes?

[BlacklightShade]

@Walrus_au you are very wise and eloquent. Thank you for standing up to willful ignorance.

[Walrus_au]

@BlacklightShade I'd be fooling myself if I thought I was doing much good. but such is life.

[BlacklightShade]

Hey Rampage, is sending an unsolicited dick pic to a girl who asked you to leave her alone an example of immoral behavior? An no, I’m not deleting the dick pic you sent because it’s evidence.

[Walrus_au]

@BlacklightShade it is far past time for a public hall of dick-pick doxing shame.

I'm sure his mommy and daddy would be thrilled to know what he is up to on their computer while they are adulting and off at work...

[Tamera952]

You’re NOT 26 — ARE YOU? — there is NO 26 yr old today that uses the term ‘WUSES’ — it’s so outmoded & old fashion, it blows your cover.
Apparently many others have caught on to his sick you truly are.

[Tamera952]

Hooray 😄 WELL SAID!!! Bravo

[PeacefulRainDrop]

I dunno where I stand honestly.. grew up very sheltered not allowed to go to movie theaters or listening to non Christian music, church every Sunday could be fighting in the car but if we didn't smile and walk single file behind mom to the closest row she could get to the front.. wed get the belt.. or if we talked back or swore got our mouths washed out with soap.. grew up with always hearing do what Jesus would do.. as I got older our family hit trails my parents stopped attending church and brother.. everyone would ask where they were my sister and I felt why can't they be happy were here.. we both found other churches we felt at home at.. I find Christians can be some of the cruelest people and interpret the Bible how ever they want.. I use to try and pray with ceasing and having my mind on heavenly things then I had an accident and life as I knew it was changed.. I became very angry felt like God was silent like he's not interested in me.. so I did things I always wanted to to try and get his attention.. went to the theater, drank, smoked, and had sex guys before him left me cause I wouldn't have sex with them so I thought to myself my friends are good people.. everything was no because I said so.. I dont call myself a Christian.. I dont call myself an atheist.. I believe what I believe.. that God created the world he has purpose in it all no idea what.. there's many times I was at different churches I didn't agree with what was said! Read in the bible somewhere in the new testament you dont need anyone to teach you so I hold that dear and thank God for leading me! I think personal opinions are preached at the pulpit sometimes so you have to be careful where your fed! My view points are different then most.. I have a heart for the lost and hungry but my approach is different.. I give out of my own pocket to people that need it first hand not to charities where I can't confirm where the money is going!

[Vallius86]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians. Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips but don't with their lifestyle.
That is what unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

[PeacefulRainDrop]

I understand that completely! Hopefully as life goes on it gets more clear!

[slatyb]

@Vallius86 that's why people don't attend church. The cause of atheism is enlightenment combined with the realization that many many other people don't believe.

[MannySimms]

@Vallius86 Good for you! He led by example and who follows that nowadays?

[Skelmir_Nathair]

I was raised in a very strict Christian sect.
In order to live up to that code of conduct. I had to deny much of myself. The teachings never sat well in my heart or mind. And I could never ubderstand why God made me the way I was. To then simply tell me to refuse all that. And be the same as everyone else.
Far from feeling a godly love. I felt deep hatred for myself and what I was. Who I was. As it was in constant conflict with what I had been told was right.
Getting to heaven was going to be damn near impossible.

Then I woke up.

Now I'm pagan. Which is what I always wanted to be. I dont follow any particular practice. But I use celtic and norse symbology and pantheons a lot. I'm free to express my sexuality any way I need to. And i do it in a way that is respectful to myself and my partners.
I feel the love of the creator. I have had many deep spiritual experiences, that I had never known were possible before.
best of all I love myself. Who and what i am. I love my life. I no longer carry guilt, or self recriminations about failing to live up to someone elses expectations.
What I've learned about the creator. This universe and reality. Since breaking away from Christianity, has set me free. And given me joy in the face of any hardship.
Where as my past taught me to hate so much of life. Be fearful of damnation. And some ass hole named satan. That god didn't want me unless I followed a code of conduct. Which actually was written by a man. In a position of power. And I just had to take it on faith that he actually got it from God. When my every instinct told me it wasn't true.

I'm not saying the teachings of Christianity are inherently wrong. When you break it down to its core. The teachings of Christ. Cause it is Christ-ianity. Its very beautiful.
What I am against. Is using ideas of condemnation for sin. To guilt and fear trip people into acting and living a certain way.

God is not so narrow minded as that.

[Vallius86]

Thank you for the amazing story. It's something I can relate to.

[shephardjhon]

why the fuck is GaG recommending I answer this shit? It seems to have the same problem as Youtube where they mistake clicks for engagement and promote anger and hatred.

If I mention my religion I know people like you will bombard me with more hatred even when I believe similar things, including about this very topic.

Seriously if GaG data scientists are reading this: PLEASE listen to the talk about the consequences of these recommendation systems and how they spread extremism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkBa9pU-H48&t=6607s

As for you @Holy_Ghost_Fire why do you care what non-believers do? It is their life, if they want the comfort of this life and go to hell in the afterlife, then let them. You conveyed your message and you quoted the scripture you believe, your job as a Christian is DONE. You are not allowed to force people into your way of thinking. Also, FYI, you did it in the WORSE POSSIBLE WAY and the WORST POSSIBLE PLATFORM in a manner that is more likely to turn people away from your religion than towards it.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Bible says when we see people living in error, we should strife to have them walk the correct path. I guess you are right. I'm doing it with anger and mockery instead of love so need to change my agenda

[shephardjhon]

Thanks for understanding. Most people would lash out at my comment.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Thanks. 80% of the time, I don't lash back out. I only do that when people try to promote abortion or pro choice and think atheism is logically based and theists are illogical and confused. Then I will lash out. I generally reply fairly.

[Deathraider]

“Unbelief is more than merely just fleshly desiring God not to exist.”
True.
“It can be lacking faith or trust in God for certain situations even if you recognize His existence.”
False. Not believing is simply just not think he exist. I mean if I asked I you if you think your consistently losing sport team would win, you would have a reason to think they won’t. Would it be reasonable to think that you hate your team and you desire it to lose? No. You just don’t have a reason to think your team would win.

“Many people are influenced from secular media outlets to want to promote premarital sex and sex outside marriage or against God's procreative clause and purposes.”
And who are these “Many people”. How many? What percentage? And where did you get that?

“Much of this is due to Satan using sex to pervert the minds of many people, including those who consider themselves strong Christians.”
Here’s the thing I don’t get, why would god make sex so pleasurable and addictive if he didn’t want it to happen recreationally? I mean he could’ve just make sex meh, so it’s like a chore people know they have to do, but they don’t overdo it. It’ll help stop a lot of sexual harassment and rape too (just saying). And wouldn’t he at least make sex pleasurable vaginally. Why anal, or oral, or other parts of the body? I’m just saying.
“It's so easy to get attached to pornography and masturbation because it's a me first and if it feels good, then do it society we live in.”
It’s so pleasurable because we evolved over time to find these things visually stimulating. It helped us procreate, and now it creates an entertainment industry.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Sports analogy to unbelief is terrible. It is not equal. Many people do desire God not to exist. If I gave you 15 pieces if evidence that led to God's existence being more likely than less likely, you'd fight tooth and nail to get your people (atheist advocates and atheist apologists) to try to debunk it and bit think about it. In sports, we often can recognize the better team. Teams either win, lose or tie every time they play. No such recognition needs to be made if you allow the Holy Ghost into your life, sir Deathraider!

Many people meaning most of society uses what society says to validate or dictate how they feel about sex. Seculars are okay with it, so they are too. People get their sexual news from secular people. They don't seek pastoral help or spiritual guidance to help them.

God values people not restricting the possibility of fruitful sex by using devices that the world lives like contraception. Ever stuck you odd how people who fornicate almost never want children with the one they are having sex with. There is a spiritual component to it. Satan works hard to pervert sex. If fornicators at least loved fruitful sex, I'd not condemn them as harshly. I condemn myself too if I follow after sexual lust. I got out of incest 3 months ago with a person's help here. They were pleased I saw the wickedness of incest. Most sexual acts are done for pleasure only. Over 70% of them. It is about pleasure only. It shouldn't be that way.

Pleasure and procreative potential should be intertwined. Who says having fruitful sex can't be pleasurable?

Oral sex is something I'd only do if she is already pregnant. That way, my seed wouldn't be meaningful at that time anyways, since she can't get more pregnant if she is already currently pregnant during that time.

[Deathraider]

A team can either win, lose, or tie, but should I believe the claim “The team will win” when there is no evidence, no record of the team ever winning? No. And the analogy is merely to illustrate that wanting something to be true and believing something to be true are two different things. Not all theist want a god to exist, and not all atheist despise the idea of a god existing.

Most people you say? Where did you get that?

“Ever stuck you odd how people who fornicate almost never want children with the one they are having sex with.” It’s not too odd considering it’s a pleasurable act for both partners. Let me lay out my thinking: If god wants people to have sex in order to procreate, why make it so pleasurable? I mean he could’ve just told them it’s a thing they have to do to reproduce. That way they aren’t doing it recreationally.

Well what utility does anal or oral, or any other body part provide? No utility at all. Is it inherently wrong? I don’t think so. It’s weird that if a god demonizes unproductive sex, then he’d make anus, the mouth, and other parts of the body pleasurable as well.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God vs sports motif is different, sir. If a sports team wins, loses or ties, any of those results doesn't surprise me. Well ties do since only 4 of the last 1183 NFL games ended in ties but the point is that in sports we go with expectations. You are not expecting God to exist or not exist. Sure, the desire is to win as an Atlanta Falcons fan. I get picked on here by @SarahsSummer because the Falcons blew a 25 point lead in the Super Bowl 3 years ago.

If you learnt with 100% accuracy that God exists, would that be a desirable result for you or would you be angry and wished it wasn't true? Regardless of your emotion, you'd have to live with the fact. Doesn't mean you'd find Him worthy of worship and praise but you'd have to respect His existence as a fact.

The case is this: Pastors can help resolve the hurt of people, even if they aren't in correct relationship with Him. Unbelief stands between the atheist getting to know God. God can only find atheists when they seek the Holy Ghost. Just start for the next 21 days calling for the Holy Ghost to help God find you. If you're not given over to a reprobate status, you will be given the opportunity to serve Jesus and change. Maybe once you turn into a Christian, you can speak dividends about it here how the Lord rescued you from your demonic lusts and desires of unbelief.

Partly true but God allows wicked sex to see if we would be good stewards over our body or not. People use sex for evil sometimes. You know bestiality, incest and pedophilia are unrighteous sexual orientations, right? You agree there but won't with homosexuality. We live in a world where people choose evil sometimes. Just the way it works out as a human with choices.

[highjinx]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Today I would like to discuss a very real threat to any Faithful True ®Christian. I speak, of course, about the demonic practice of rational thinking.” In these modern times, where evil people worship science, that spreads lies and blasphemies against God in our public school and classrooms, there is an increasing pressure from the unsaved upon True Christians to embrace their religious practice of Logic and Reason, which is a euphemism, of course, for slandering God’s Holy Bible. Why do I say this? Because, when anyone tries to applies rational thinking to the Bible, it suddenly doesn’t seem to make as much sense as it normally did, suggesting the Bible would be filled with contradictions and such. This, of course, already proves that rational thinking is a form of demonic possession, clouding the vision of the freethinker to the Truth. TELL ME IF YOU CAN SEE THE HIDDEN OBJECT IN THE PICTURE , AND WHAT IT IS.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You mock because you as fleshly filled can't received the things of the spirit. I'm done with your reprobate butt. I'm muting the question. Have fun replying. I won't be seeing it in my notifications.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

That is right, walrus. This take is my house and you didn't leave. So I got authority involved.

If you had a person if your house that didn't leave, you would get authority involved too.

[highjinx]

Until about five years ago, I was a preacher. The more I studied the bible, however, the less I could believe it. I began studying books and websites from the 'other' side and realized that I wasn't alone in my disbelief. I preached for almost another year (and many people said that they were my best sermons), but I no longer believed a word of what I was saying. Christianity became so illogical to me that I just couldn't stand it any more.

My personal morality has only changed for the better. If I see anyone in need, I can no longer think, "God will help them." It's up to me to do it. I did not choose to "leave", I just realized the truth.

[Angels-vs-Demons]

@highjinx
Insane people only represent 50% of their existence, the natural. Sane people represent 100% of their existence: natural and spiritual

[highjinx]

@Angels-vs-Demons Once again, a religious person (who holds nothing more than beliefs, yet demands that his beliefs are facts) But that does not change the reality of the situation. There is no reason for you to believe that you have a soul, or that you will have eternal life after death, or that there is a heaven and hell. babbling on about an imaginary God like this is dangerous, if for no
other reason than this one. If so many people are this delusional in the area of religion, it makes you wonder where else they harbor equally significant delusions in their thinking.

[Tamera952]

What a bunch of hogwash !!
Im a proud unbeliever, and the last I need is Jesus !!
Man oh man! - what’s the preoccupation with sex and ‘immorality’ — answer me this;
why would ‘god’ or his minions, Jesus give two shits about sex and sexuality? Don’t other things outweigh that silly and demonstrably naive taboo? ( like killing people and doing very bad crimes and so one, etc.)
I read this crap you wrote, and it’s SCREAMS “crazy person” — how did you get so twisted anyway?
LIGHTEN UP DUDE

[Exorcist_Rampage]

You actually knew my brother?

[Edanurus]

Well as an ex Christian from an athiest family I can tell you my hatred came from religion.

I accepted god, i did everything i could for him and believed whole heartedly. Untill I asked to be baptized and was told to fuck off, a 13 year old boy who had gone to church religiously (no pun intended) being told that they weren't welcome in the family of god. You're damn right I lost faith and more than that, even if god did exist then the fact he chose to put me through that as a child is just sadistic.

But i realised that its not god its people, because god doesn't exist.

[aa180]

This is funny cause Christian societies are the most sexually perverted on the planet. Look at which countries produce the most porn - they're all Christian majority countries. Not to mention that hookup culture thrives in Christian populations and that Christian women walk around dressed like a bunch of prostitutes..

[Vallius86]

This would make an interesting study. Can you tell me your sources?

[englisc]

I'm not a Christian, however even I know that this change had a lot to do with certain groups pushing certain agendas, one of those being to destroy traditional Western values which were held up by Christianity. Since you mentioned porn, here's a clue, straight from the horse's mouth:



A couple more, not from crazy conspiracy websites:

www.jewishquarterly.org/.../articled325.html

www.haaretz.com/.../...e-christian-right-1.5318804

[Vallius86]

What do you feel the need to specify that they're not from crazy websites? Rather suspect indeed.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

@aa180
You mean claimed Christians. A Christian will not intentionally do this GS to dishonor Christ and if they are struggling with sin, will do all they can to repent and try not to make it a habit. Secular people make living in sin a habit with their idols, unbelief, sexual immorality and no desire to change.

[Vallius86]

Holy_Ghost_Fire
You seem to be one of those people who separates the world between an "us" and "them". Be careful with that because believing that you are superior can cause you to make many mistakes. Your young man-made doctrine will not save you. Believe It or Not plenty of "secular" people seek to better themselves as well. The very fact that you believe you are better than them proves you are no better than them.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

@Vallius86
Never think of heathens as inferior. Just recognizing how good the Holy Ghost was to convict me of incest 3 months ago. I can fall prey to it again if I'm not careful, sir Vallius86!

[Vallius86]

Holyshit!

[Vallius86]

You are having sex with your brother or sister?

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

@Vallius86 With my sister but that was before I received Jesus for salvation.

[englisc]

Well that explains a lot.

[Vallius86]

True...

[Daniela1982]

And what makes you think these people are Christians? Anyone can call them self a Christian. It is how they live their life that shows who real Christians are.

[Daniela1982]

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is. Porn producers are definitely not born again Christians. Only God knows who is true in his heart. Out of our mouth comes profanity and cursing God and all sorts of vile things. Someone doing this and saying I'm a Christian contradict each other. Today's churches mostly cater to men and say what they want to hear - have their ears tickled, and ignore what God says. But in the end it doesn't matter what anyone tells you, as God will be your final judge, not them.

[BlacklightShade]

@Daniela1982 - What about users on GaG (that I won't mention by name) proclaim to believe in God and The Holy Ghost but still PM unsolicited dic pix of themselves after being told to leave me alone? I'm just gathering opinions on if this is appropriate behavior for a God follower.

[BlacklightShade]

I don’t see porn as a deliberate attack on Christianity. It’s just an outcrop of natural human interests. But I like the idea that it is unintentionally attacking religion anyway. Porn forges through barriers in technology. Maybe it can forge though barriers in humanity.

[Daniela1982]

@BlacklightShade That would not be a good thing if true.

[Daniela1982]

@Vallius86 There is none, he is full of it and just making it up because he doesn't believe.

[slatyb]

It's all over for old-time religion in the West. Even in the relatively religious US a mere 8% of millennials are evangelical Protestants. Folks like you can blaster about what you think God wants but it's all just whatever you are comfortable with.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Popularity doesn't mean correct.

[slatyb]

Neither does your faith in your interpretation of some ancient myths.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Neither does you calling it myth makes it a myth.

You believe nothing happens after death when there is no evidence nothing does. You assume nothing does. If you were being fair, you would not assume that.

[slatyb]

People like you are constantly claiming to know why people don't follow your faith. It's really simple. To many of us it's just unbelievable. God is as real as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I don't believe there is a such thing as an atheist. I do think you think you are trying to convince me there is since Satan easily deceived those who aren't allowing the Holy Ghost to be their teacher.

People of the flesh war against people of the spirit. That's why they hate admitting God exist and suppress it. They truly are deceived and the deceived are in no position to know they are deceived

How can a deceived person know they aren't deceived? They can't. They trust themselves over others.

[slatyb]

That's called hubris. People tell you their true feelings but you claim to know other people better than they know themselves. Anything that contradicts your beliefs is just Satan deceiving you. So there's no point in conversing with you, you aren't fit for polite company.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

They can feel they are atheists but doesn't mean they are.

They also are scoffing at me claiming I must be wrong and they must me right. They never assume maybe I'm right and they are deceived. That never enters the equation of possibilities. They always assume they are right and I'm foolish to think otherwise.

[slatyb]

I can make up thousands of things that can't be proven untrue. So can anyone. I could make up hundreds of things you need to do or avoid to have a happy afterlife. People have already done that. Cut your hair short. No wait, don't cut it at all and wear a turban. Get circumcised. Get the magic tattoo. No, don't defile your body in any way, God made you perfect. Don't have sex before marriage. No, wait, that's wrong. You were made for love and should have sex every chance you get with anyone male or female. Dont eat beef or pork or shellfish. Just don't eat animals at all. Ok, you can eat animals but only if they were killed in the exactly proper way by someone wearing the magic hat. Speaking of hats, everyone has to wear a hat. No, wait, wearing a hat separates you from God, so no hats ever. But shoes have to be worn to protect you from the devil. Or maybe no shoes because that's a sign of humility. But for sure no work on Sunday. Or was it Saturday? Also everyone has to go to Mecca. Or Lourdes. Or Salt Lake City. Or the Lincoln memorial. Be sure to say the rosary every day. Or your mantra. Or the Lord's prayer. Or the Nicene creed. Or the Gettysburg address. And don't forget to talk like a pirate on Tuesdays.

I don't have time for all your rules and everyone else's too and they are equally valid. So I'm just going to follow the one really important rule: treat others as you would like to be treated. That's the oldest rule ever -- it's older than people. Even the great apes understand that one.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

The Old Testament laws were for people living during that time. God didn't have people change things greatly but allowed them to live according to their culture.

I'm for genital integrity and don't eat pork or get tattoos. My hair is extremely long and many Pentecostal churches have condemned me for it.

God is more concerned with finding men than men finding God. The Bible and Jesus is against religion and after relationship instead.

Discernment from the Holy Ghost will reveal to the remnant which things are sin and which are obedient.

Sure there is sexism in the Bible but it was about how people treated women, not God wanted women to be treated.

[slatyb]

God is omniscient, right? So if God wants to find me then God presumably knows where to look. So far God has not come calling.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Him trying to find you doesn't meant He doesn't know where you are. It means He is trying to find you a match most suitable for your soul in the afterlife. Your actions on earth dictates how much He finds you. If you engulf yourself in unbelief by allowing Satan to cause you to follow unbelief or sexual immorality, then He has to find another potential match for your soul.

Life isn't an accident. You matter to God. If you repent and worship Jesus now with a pure heart, then you could achieve a better Heaven after death. How you think now affects your future. Rapists have a certain match in Hell that fits their soul. Unbelievers have a certain match. Liars do too. The same for righteous matches and unrighteous matches.

Just plead the blood of Jesus and mean it and in 21 days, you may be the strongest Christian on g@g and do MyTakes on the joy of the Holy Ghost and have a changed and new heart of wanting to express the glories of your joy in Christ to win hope for claimed atheists here. Never know the future. It could happen.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God won't look for you unless you allow the Holy Ghost to come to you and answer His call. If you keep rejecting, then you will be given over to a reprobate mind to not realize the error of your ways.

[Evil_Chuck]

Sorry to spoil your fun but if God exists, then mortals have nothing to say about this. He and no one else will decide who is and is not saved, for reasons that are utterly beyond our comprehension.
Stop trying to judge and comprehend for him, or for us. He doesn't need the help, and we don't need the hassle.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

God said that adultery is sinful.

[gaurwaith]

want to control people's lives and keep them grouped up like good little brainwashed sheep? then convince them one of their most powerful urges is sinful.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

People can have sex in marriage. God isn't forbidding sex altogether. It is their weakness that they can't wait until marriage to have sex.

[gaurwaith]

... outside of marriage, wait for them to finally get married (attaining that highly sought after life affirming act between TWO people) while still going to church and spreading the 'word,' and they will think they owe that success to the church and 'God' and will continue acting like good little brainwashed sheep...

*heavy sigh* this should be fun, I'll probably get nowhere, but oh well.

I'm not disagreeing with one of your tenants here, I'm disagreeing with the entire idea of organized religion and for that matter the bible. Did you know the bible isn't viewed as a credible historical document because it has no corroborating evidence from people at that time? No one ever meet Jesus and wrote about him after they 'witnessed' his miracles. The people who wrote the bible never met him.

Don't get me wrong, religion has done some good, but also plenty of bad too. Ever hear about the Donation of Constantine? the bible itself helped rural farmers and the like to live moral lives, and turn away from archaic bronze age practices. however, the bible has many flaws and inconsistencies. the problem of evil, and 2 gospels speak of virgin birth, 2 dont, etc.

I wish you the best of luck, but I'm rather firm in my stance on this issue. Please continue trying to help people, but dont tell them how to live their lives, that is up to them and them alone.

[BlacklightShade]

So glad there are people like you who concern themselves with what other people do or think in their private lives.

[admles]

He also has another one, Hurleez-Stampede or something like that.

[BlacklightShade]

@admles - right so he’s got at LEAST 4 accounts all chiming in to back up his crazy theories.

Supposedly he believes in the Bible yet he disregards the 9th Commandment of “bearing a false witness” by being his own *false* witness using sock puppet accounts. He claims to be a godly person but in order to do so he goes against his proclaimed faith by violating his faith. Liar. Hypocrite.

[admles]

It's kind of hilarious really, how hypocritical he is, as are many of the christians on this forum.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

I was not angel-vs-demon nor Hurdleez-stampede

You misspelled them.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

You can't condemn me by what you claim to deem as a fairy tale. That makes you a hypocrite.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

You are bearing false witness by not spelling words right.

[Felinegirl]

If I would ever start believing in any religion, it would not be Christianity.

"Even demons know God exists" only counts if you believe in demons :p

[Tamera952]

I know huh! This shit he’s trying to sell Unsuccessfully sounds like some really crazy cults crap like Jehovah’s Witnesses or LDS

[Exorcist_Rampage]

@Tamera952
No. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. It could still be true that demons exist.

[Tamera952]

@Exorcist_Rampage ok I’ll give ya that point, so yea, demons COULD exist — and will you concede that at the same token, it’s also FEASIBLE that they do not.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

@Tamera952
I can't because I experienced a demon back in March but even before I was 25 and a half years old when I first experienced it, I still believed demons exists. I'm s man of spirituality and not science guru like so many men here. I am a spiritual man. I value spirituality. I don't appreciate being called a troll just because they can't imagine I take the Holy Ghost seriously and want to have high spiritual value.

[Daniela1982]

You live on the planet earth where there has been wars and people killing each other for thousands of years and you don't believe there is evil in the world? You must live with your head in the sand.

[Felinegirl]

@Exorcist_Rampage even if you do believe that demons exist, there's no reason to be sure that those demons believe in god like OP argued.

[Daniela1982]

When it says believe in God it means they believe he exists. ◄ James 2:19 ►. The devils also believe, and tremble. —They shudder in the belief which only assures them of their utter misery; literally, their hair stands on end with terror of the God they own. Assent, opinion, knowledge—all are thus shared by demons of the pit; call not your joint possession by the holier name of Faith

[Felinegirl]

@Daniela1982 still, you would only believe in those particular demons if you believe everything in the bible, which means you already have to believe in god to take demons as proof.
Most christians don't even take the bible as literal facts. So I, as a person not convinced that the bible is anything but an old book of fiction and idioms, cannot use your argument at all.

[Daniela1982]

So you think all the evil in the world is just natural or the work of the devil and his demons? Because at the rate of people killing each other and with all the wars and nuclear weapons, it will be not long before we annihilate each other. It says in Revelation that unless God steps in to stop it there would be no life left on earth. In other words sometime in the future there will be nuclear exchanges when some army tried to invade Israel. And make no mistake, Israel doesn't mess around and has kicked the ass of some bigger armies.

[Tamera952]

@Exorcist_Rampage well if u say you saw one, then cool I believe you. ( remember I made room for the possibility because I’m open minded)
And your definition of spirituality is subjective and many people have different ideas about what that means. I did not call you a troll, but you sure do act like one – (lets be clear) is because of YOUR BEHAVIOR — because of the way you act- NOT because people have an opinion on your views of the Holy Ghost — no, Because the hostile way you come at, Because you make erroneous claims, and are not shy about judging others and trying to hold them to account based on your opinions. You rub so many people the wrong way, and if you just phrased it different it would go better for you

[Exorcist_Rampage]

Phrase it how?

[MannySimms]

Someone told you what to believe. Why not think for yourself and believe something that makes sense?

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

No. I investigated it myself and came to what makes most logical sense.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

That's a wusses concept of who God is. God is not some maniac who enjoys seeing people burn in Hell. People choose Hell for themselves.

[MannySimms]

Let me guess, you looked in the bible.

Your belief system as well as the others are based on fear. Investigate that.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

No. The Holy Ghost taught me the spiritual path that best matches my afterlife will be determined by how I choose to live my life on earth in relationship to others. How I treat them will affect my match my soul is paired with in Heaven or Hell.

[MannySimms]

I see you are thinking for yourself within the limits you were told to respect. I apologize. I seem to remember someone from the past that received messages from God too. David Berkowitz comes to mind. We should not ALWAYS listen to the voices in our head.

Can you find out if people need shoes in the afterlife? Folks like you scare the hell out of me. Really...

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Ask g@g if people if we get our personal toilet in Heaven or have bowel movements in the afterlife.

[Eila_]

lol god loves us thats why he murders our babies

[MannySimms]

Why don't you just ask God and get back to us? Can you also find out if condoms come in one size only?

[Eila_]

i hope there isn't a god, because if there is one, he is the devil.
what did a 6 month old baby do to deserve a painful death?

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Pain happens to adults too. Why would a baby's pain be worse?

[Eila_]

An adult could have done something to receive karma but what could a baby have done to deserve it

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

So pain due to revenge is justified?

The baby doesn't but it doesn't mean God willed it.

[BrittBratt2416]

It's bad, this is how a lot of people in the world think. They think only good things should happen to good people and bad should only happen to bad people. Well good or bad doesn't change the fact that we've all sinned. There's no sin o meter on a scale of 1 to 10, it's just bad in God's eyes all together. And yes it sucks that a child get's cancer, dies at young age, or is abused, but it sucks that it happens to anyone cause nobody should really face those things but it's part of life unfortunately. We might not be able to stop cancer, but humans can stop all the violence and evil that we if we all came together and said no more.

[Denniszen]

Some souls are here for a moment but have more impact than someone who lives 100 years.

Would you die a painful death to embue the people who love you with a love and compassion they may have never known?

To put it in a crude fashion.. its a "butterfly effect" that is beyond your scope of concievability and to keep hate in your heart for something that may have been the choice of the soul that inhabited that body is limiting and self deprecating.

[Daniela1982]

What baby? How did the baby suffer a painful death?

[idoknow1]

women have become prostitutes its all over the internet YOUR FAMILY INCLUDED

the men have decided to reject GOD and so have the women
most of the earth is going to hell

plus the technology of the watchers is what we are using today just like the days of Noah

[HaveNoName]

Awesome post, brother. I'm not a Christian but there is so much common. Of course there is a fundamental difference but on the main message, I hear you loud and clear.

[Games_]

didn't read a thing but god trying to exist is illogical at this point. Sooner or later gods gonna be kicked out the system and will be a ancient fairy tale like the rest of the many religions

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You have a wusses concept of who God is and assume He can't exist. You have a closed mind and think His existence is impossible and already decided it can't be possible.

[Games_]

If he exist why have we found like old human species fossils

[Games_]

U only believe in god cuz ur parents forced it into you. It's alright. It originated in the middle east and traveled to the west when the Europeans traveled around.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

You don't know why I accept God's existence and my dad and sister don't believe. Only me and mom do.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

Quit assuming you know why others believe. I can assume why you claim not to believe bit don't.

I don't believe people who claim to be atheists. They just say they are to be contrite and they have a villain fetish. God declared all knows He exists. People say they are atheists because we war around the spirit with our flesh a lot.

[Games_]

No we say we are atheist because there's 0 proof of god

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I say I'm theist because there is 0 proof against God.

[Games_]

there's no point in this tbh. All I can say is do your own research and figure it out from there.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

I have done my own research. I used to be a sinner and bound by unbelief. The Holy Ghost convicted me of my unbelief and incest about 6 months ago.

[kespethdude]

"You have a wusses concept of who God is and assume He can't exist. You have a closed mind and think His existence is impossible and already decided it can't be possible." And, of course, the religious whackjob resorts to insults. Good job, numbnuts. This is one of those MyTakes that I wish GaG users could downvote. And don't even think about giving me the repent or go to hell shit. Scumbags like you do not get to respond to me. Blocked and see you in hell. Correction, you'll go to hell. I don't believe in it so I can't go there lol.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

@kespethdude
Nobody can block me.

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

@kespethdude
Obviously he is closed minded. He thinks it is impossible for God to exist, yet asks me to prove it.

[LuWe22]

I don't believe in anything so I don't fear nothing. I don't force people to believe in anything. I let people live their life like they want to. Tolerance is very important and did not your Jesus said you should spread love not hate? 🤔

[Holy_Ghost_Fire]

So you don't believe in atheism since you don't believe in anything. Nice to hear, rad madam.

[BrittBratt2416]

I'm not an unbeliever but I definitely do still struggle with sin. I'm not happy about it to be truthfully honest.

[Daniela1982]

Join the party. No one is perfect, no not one.