The only documentary you need to watch about Abortion.

[Remarkably_Plain]

Its clear that abortion is one of the most controversial things in existence. Its a process that raises questions in areas of medicine, philosophy and epistemology, religion, and literally life and death.

Most often, all we hear when the subject is brought up are the loudest voices, the most scathing and accusatory positions. Because *prepare for sarcasm* obviously everyone here already knows exactly whats right and wrong in every situation end of story. The problem is we all like to think that, but we can't all be right can we?

So, if you have a shred of humility, if you have a shred of honesty, take a moment and consider the very real possibility that you a human being might be wrong about certain things or not be seeing what other people see. Act like you just heard the word "abortion" for the first time and you genuinely want to learn what happens and how others feel about it before you sound off.

With that, enjoy this video. It was eye opening for me so i wanted to share it.

[theronaldmcdonald]

I am not going to watch this, I do not care what the position is. I am pro-choice but even if the video is pro-choice, the chances it will provide an accurate and complete argument are slim. People, please do your own research, even if you come to a conclusion that is opposite mine. Look at sources from all sides, even if you have made your decision. Information and, consequently, opinions can change with time. Never trust that one source will give you a full picture. Never trust one source is enough for you to cultivate an educated opinion.

[Stephen_77]

So you support killing babies.

[theronaldmcdonald]

@Stephen_77 out everything I said, that’s the only conclusion you drew? alright then.

[Ámayas_20]

You don't need to watch this no but stop closing your mind to pro life positions or you're just as uninformed as a flat earther🤷🏼‍♀️You never need to agree but you shouldn't ignore them or you're not the educated person you think you are on this topic.

[Walrus_au]

@Stephen_77 you support the killing of women by forced birth? You support trapping people into poverty by lack of society giving a shit after they are born to parents that don't want to or cannot raise them and knew it? You support women having to dangerous black market abortions because it is their only option?

And perhaps worst of all, you support the kind of scientific ignorance that cannot determine the difference between a baby and a fetus? Or the kind of scientific ignorance that declares that pregnancy and childbirth has no risks? Or frankly the blithering assholery that insists that rape victims should be forced to bear the children of their attackers?

Do I really need to continue?

[Agape93]

Yeah Im not going to bother with the click bait esque title.

[Remarkably_Plain]

Uh, you already did, obviously. So the title worked.

[Agape93]

Apologies, a better word would be “substance”. In other words I’m not going to bother watching yet another anti choice leaning video.

[Ámayas_20]

So you claim to have an educated informed opinion but you refuse to look at both sides? Mmmmk

[Agape93]

I know what is done in abortions as I’ve had some. I know biology and I know the possible psychological ramifications. So yes, I do have an informed and educated opinion. Just because I don’t give a flying fuck about your opinions or those of the anti choice side, does not change that.

Mind your business.

[Ámayas_20]

So you're an aggressive close minded person, but obviously I'm the bad one😂.
You know nothing which is clear in the way you speak please educate yourself, I'm not saying change your mind but literally no one other than others as close minded will ever take you seriously this way.

Sort yourself out.

[Agape93]

I’m already sorted, love. Further, yes I am aggressive and closed minded on this. I have never wanted kids and have always hated those who would try and make me have them, like those with anti choice beliefs.
Sorry but abortion is cut and dry for me.

[Walrus_au]

@Ámayas_20 Being open minded does not mean that one has to tolerate spurious bullshit.

[Agape93]

^^this^^

[Ámayas_20]

@Agape93 I'd never support forcing you to have children I completely support free access to birth control and plan b, I think that if you don't want kids that it's probably best you don't have them. That doesn't mean your selfish desires to have sex ignoring the possible consequences means you're allowed to kill the child. You should have access to all the prevention methods and let's not forget the whole you don't need to be having sex, but if you fall pregnant you don't need to be a mum but you shouldn't take their life because it's inconvenient for you.

[Ámayas_20]

@Walrus_au I'm not quite sure you understand anything you say😂Having an educated informed opinion actually does require you to look at both sides, to dismiss an entire side of an issue kinda just proves you have no idea what you're talking about. Then again you've made it clear you don't.

[Agape93]

Except it is my right. And despite birth control, it has failed twice. So despite proper preventative measures, I’ve still fallen pregnant, so I aborted them. I also will not refrain from doing what I desire, regardless of your sympathies or desires. Those are for you, not me. Now, if the Supreme Court outlawed abortion, would you stand with me in support of choice, or stand with those who stole my choice and forced me to have had kids?

[Walrus_au]

@Ámayas_20 That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Present a compelling case.

And yes, I have a pretty good idea. Take for example the fact that without access to abortions, my wife would have died a horrible death about 4 years ago. And in similar situations, in other countries that HAD banned abortions, women did die.

[Agape93]

Isn’t that hitchens razor?

[Walrus_au]

Ohhh hells yes.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

A cherry-picked documentary made by prolife. Also known as anti choice who just likes to make straw man argument about pro-choice being a supporter of abortion when they only support choice themselves. Because if that were true we would be putting laws for pro lifes unlike pro-life making laws for abortion. How others "feel" about it is not a rational thought. If you feel it a human being then we don't feel its a human being because if that's the case sperm cells and egg cells are human beings to but people discard them everytime.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And you're don't think you are evil for making laws for people's point of view for whatever reason because hypocrisy. This is just like when christian say that everyone who is in the christian will go to hell. Just because of how we feel about it. That shows supremacy actually if you're really going to talk about who is the real evil here.

[Nikola99]

Hello. use condoms. or girls can be on a pill. or simply don't have sex. you both knew there maybe a chance a girl can get pregnant. so someone else shouldn't deserve to die just cuz you screwed up

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Nikola99 And you can't simply tell people what to do. Yeah sure I don't support sex being taken for granted but accidents always happen and there are risks when performing abortion too but it's still their choice. I know how to look at both of the pros and cons unlike you who wanna be one sided just because of how you feel. All you want is for the baby to be born. Nevermind the fact that we have over 7 billion people on this planet polluting the world, unwanted children are likely to suffer from mental illness, malnutrition and they end up in the orphanage at some point. "someone else shouldn't deserve to die" <--- Because strawman arguments. In you OPINION that's "someone else". Not a fact. They don't breath, see, hear, remember anything or even have a name like people who are already born. Because that's the case, sperms and eggs are humans to and we kill them everyday.

[Infearmal]

Sperm cells and ovocytes are cells, dumb fuck. Egg cells are human life.
Is it so hard to get?
google : site:lifesitenews. com survey fertilization (I can't link it).
Also, stop opposing people. There are no "pro life" or pro choice". There are only people who still respect and see life as what it is, and people who got caucht into the satanistic pharisee global order.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Before calling me dumb fuck, i can also say a fetus is a fetus get it? It is still opinionated to say that a treatise is a human life because scientist only say it is a living thing but however if you prolife who make straw man argument about a fetus sing it a human life. That lifesitenews you're trying to give me dont even prove anything. they just say it's a human being just because of whatever they believe. That's not exactly going to make it a fact.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

But here is a fact for you. You don't remember what being a fetus is like. But if you do you're lying. So why does it matter? Because feelings

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I also if you're going to say that an egg cell is a human life then you just nailed your own coffin. In fact girls how their periods every after 21 days meaning to say they kill their own "human" in them.

[ThisDudeHere]

"You don't remember what being a fetus is like."

And neither does anyone remember the first two or so years of their life, doesn't make killing toddlers okay.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere And neither does being a sperm. It's just how we believe it. And because I'm saying I'm fine with discarding a fetus, does that automatically mean I'm fine with discarding a new born child? That's the straw man argument I'm talking about

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere it is something called "point of view" you missed. And if we're so full of our views and narcissistic about it, we would have advocate for the laws of keeping an unwanted child or the law for not aborting an unwanted child like what pro lifes do vise versa.

[ThisDudeHere]

The issue many have with your thinking is that the lines you draw are very arbitrary. At which point does it go from a medical procedure to outright murder?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere In your opinion and how you straw man about it, it is murder but not for us. It's what we call discarding. Just like how you masturbate and kill millions of them.

[ThisDudeHere]

Except sperm cells haven't combined with the egg after a deliberate act that is designed to do just that.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere So? That doesn't exactly make a difference. That's just one of those excuses pro lifes make just to feel right about it. Now I tell you, does a fetus have any ID, birth certificate, social image, reputation or even a name? No. So why would we care? For the baby being born, they had 9 months to prepare for it unlike a fetus.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And when science say it is a living thing, yes it is a living thing but it's people like you who straw man about it saying it's "already" a human life. And put rights for it. Quite the irony when they wanna put human rights over something that can't even speak, think, talk or live on it's own while the human race is the cause of extinction of other species. What a pro life you are. *Applaud*

[ThisDudeHere]

Under Nazi law, Jews didn't have any of that either too. Neither does a newborn child, other than having a name. Why should we care about them either?

"Quite the irony when they wanna put human rights over something that can't even speak, think, talk or live on it's own"

Jesus, literally the exact same thing applies to any toddler.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Oh no you are bringing religion into this and what if i told you, not everyone is religious. Also because you are talking about toddlers not a fetus. Again with strawmanning. There's a big difference. And the nazis are so 70 years ago. Let me ask you something, do you like dogs? Hitler like dogs so that means you're a nazi to. You eat doritos? Doritos are triangle and triangle is illuminati so i guess you worship Satan. isn't it logic fun?

[ThisDudeHere]

I'm not bringing religion into this, I'm an atheist.
You still have yet to define the border from where a non-human becomes human in the womb. Hence why I brought up toddlers since you yourself said that it's partly about not having a social presence, a name or a personality, something that fetuses and toddlers have in common. So yeah, the difference is big but going by your logic, you made the border between the two vague.
Hitler also drank water so now what? Though I don't see why you even brought up this train of thought - I only made the comparison between the Jews in the 30's because your argument for it being okay to kill fetuses was that they had no rights, which in and of itself is the problem, not an excuse.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

But the main topic here is about fetus not toddlers. I remember what being a toddler is like and so do you. Yeah Hitler drink water and so does everyone else. So does cavemen. The reason i bought the whole triangle and nazi thing is also because you bought up Hitler and the juice which is even out of the topic here. And also because Jews are human beings buffy toes are not because they aren't out of the mother's womb yet. what you're saying that a fetus is a human life is your opinion that doesn't make it a fact just because guys how you feel about it. In my argument is not saying it's ok to kill a fetus but i'm saying it ok to discard a fetus. Also there is a difference between this card and killing which you fail to see. Because all you like to think it's about killing even though that's not what in our mind. It is something called point of view that everyone has the right to think but it's people like you're interrupting freedom of speech by adding laws to your beliefs and you don't think you are evil for that for whatever reason.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Just like your whole, "jesus is also once a fetus" Well so does Hitler. If jesus were aborted three it's going to create an alternate future. There's going to be someone like him taking his place. But if i'm leaving in the alternate future, would i care about today's world without having any idea what it would turn out?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You could be better it could be worse and no one knows. I was once a fetus in if i get aborted i don't care. I'll just end up like one of my siblings which there are millions of them who didn't make it.

[ThisDudeHere]

Them not being out of the mother's womb makes them inhuman? By that logic we can abort 8+ month old pregnancies? I'm sure you don't believe that so you must draw a line at some point and that, again, is the whole argument. Where is that line drawn.
You say that just because I say that a fetus is a life, doesn't make that a fact. That's a pointless argument because I can just turn it around the other way and say that just because you say that it isn't a life, doesn't make it a fact.
The usage of the ''discard'' word is more akin to an ideological mincing of words and definitions to excuse things. It's the same thing as calling slavery indentured servitude. It does not change what it is, just makes it sound less appealing which leads to it being excused. Calling murder something else does not make it any less of a murder.
I have no idea where the whole thing about me wanting to ban freedom of speech came from. I support absolute freedom of speech, which is why when somoene brings up shitty arguments, we should be free to debate them - as is the case now.
""jesus is also once a fetus""
-Point out when I've ever said that in this debate?
So you're saying that if Jesus were aborted, it would create an alternate future so you wouldn't care about the world that would have been with him. How is that an argument? Again, the exact same thing could be applied to killing anyone who's already born - their death would create an alternate reality in which you would not care for what would have happened in the reality in which they weren't killed. How is this even a pro-abortion argument? It's just a haphazard excuse that has no basis.

[ThisDudeHere]

If you got aborted, you wouldn't care because you wouldn't have been given the choice to care. How is that fair? Terminating a person's life under the excuse that ''they're not alive so they wouldn't care that they are dead'' is, again, a very haphazard excuse with no basis. It does not justify the termination because it does not deal with the unfairness of not giving a chance to even care.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere And how can we care if they can't even? That's why we don't put our feelings on a fetus just like how everyone doesn't about a sperm. "Terminating a person's life" <-- stop right there. It's you and your opinion saying it's a person's life. You don't have to keep repeating it's a person's life to make it valid.

[ThisDudeHere]

"And how can we care if they can't even? "
You do realize that that reasoning excuses murdering anyone, right? Why should we care if people die if they can't care about anything anymore... because they're dead.

"That's why we don't put our feelings on a fetus just like how everyone doesn't about a sperm"
If science were to come out and say at which point a fetus is no longer a lump of cells but is technically a proto-human, then I wouldn't mind getting rid of a lump of cells. But, of course, the pro-abortion side doesn't even care about that - all they care for is the ability to abort, regardless of the month of pregnancy.

""Terminating a person's life" <-- stop right there."
-How about no?

"It's you and your opinion saying it's a person's life."
-And, again, your opinion has it that it's not, what's the difference? At least I'm arguing that the act of conception creates that life - you've yet to define where it really begins other than this one occasion in the debate where you threw out the notion that someone's a person only after being born, which is ludicrous. That would make it a viable option to discard the baby even mere moments before birth.

"You don't have to keep repeating it's a person's life to make it valid."
-And, again, you don't have to repeat that it isn't to make that valid too. And, yet again, I have a way to define a life. You don't.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere And do you realize that repeating "someone" or saying "murder" over an over just because you think so doesn't make it a fact right? Even if it's no longer a lump of cell, it still don't invalidate the fact that they don't look like human beings. "How about no?" Then you're just being comfortable with your own delusions like narrow minded people do. Yes in our opinion they're not human being because they aren't fully developed out of the mother's wombs yet. That's what makes them not a human being "yet". Sure because they "will" doesn't mean they "already" are. Also we are pro choice because we are pro choice not pro abortion. If a pregnant mother got pregnant accidentally and CHOSE to keep the child as a choice then it's still her choice. We don't put laws that she should be in jail for keeping her child like you do.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere While saying I'm repeating doesn't make it valid, the reason why abortion made it to the law books is because of your repetitions. So why would it not be ok to make a speech about pro choice when you already have laws for it? Double standards I see

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Also it is not like we're trying to put laws for your pro life belief.

[ThisDudeHere]

Perhaps I'm saying that it's murder over and over because I believe that it is? That's how speech works. Repeating things implies you believe in them, I thought that would be self evident. Whether they are facts or not is what's up for debate, sure, but you can't bar me from repeating them in my assumption that they are facts.

"Even if it's no longer a lump of cell, it still don't invalidate the fact that they don't look like human beings."
-So now we're entering the murky territory of having to make looks be a defining thing in what makes a human. And the issue of defining what a true human even looks like. There was this guy in India or someplace who was all covered in tumours - he barely looked human. Is he then inhuman by your standards?

"Then you're just being comfortable with your own delusions"
-Did you perhaps consider that I do not see them as delusions?

"Yes in our opinion they're not human being because they aren't fully developed..."
-Okay now I'm lost because I have no clue where I implied anything of the sort. You're the one saying that they're not human which is why it's okay to ''murder'' them.

"Also we are pro choice because we are pro choice not pro abortion."
-I'm calling a spade for a spade - you're pro abortion. What about the choice of the child? I can't fanthom them ever choosing to die if they could actually make the choice.

"If a pregnant mother got pregnant accidentally and CHOSE to keep the child as a choice then it's still her choice."
-Obviously? Why are you saying this, not like I disagree.

"We don't put laws that she should be in jail for keeping her child like you do.""
-The fuck are you on about? At literally no point have I said such a thing. I want for abortion to be severely discouraged or fined at least due to ethical reasons. Literally fucking never have I said that a mother should be jailed for having a child - you making that kind of claim about me is borderline retarded.

[ThisDudeHere]

"While saying I'm repeating doesn't make it valid, the reason why abortion made it to the law books is because of your repetitions. So why would it not be ok to make a speech about pro choice when you already have laws for it? Double standards I see"
-Okay, really. what are you smoking? I was replying to you stating that me repeting something doesn't make it a fact. You are literally accusing me of your own arguments.

"Also it is not like we're trying to put laws for your pro life belief."
-Okay, I'm starting to believe that there may be a language barrier because I don't know if it's your points that make no sense or the sentences themselves.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere You believe it is. Not us. So there's no reason for pro lifes to add laws of it and bash on our point of views now that you admit it's an opinion. Not a fact. The guy in India covered in tumors you're talking about is a born human being so there's that strawman argument again. "Are you saying you wanna kill people who don't look humans?" No. I'm saying it's ok to discard a fetus as a choice. Because it's a fetus not a human. And in fact yes because you keep repeating it's murder and bash on pro choice people. "The fuck are you on about?" It doesn't take a genius really and there's no need to swear unless you've hurt your pride. Being offended doesn't prove anything. "-Obviously? Why are you saying this, not like I disagree." Since you pro life just wanna make a strawman argument about pro choice being a supporter of abortion. So there I described how a pro choice and pro abortion are 2 different things

[ThisDudeHere]

"You believe it is. Not us."
-Yes. That's the issue and the reason for the whole debate.

" So there's no reason for pro lifes to add laws of it and bash on our point of views now that you admit it's an opinion. Not a fact."
-What? No, it is my opinion that it is a fact. There's a difference.

"The guy in India covered in tumors you're talking about is a born human being so there's that strawman argument again."
-So you're again only saying that a being counts as human only after birth? So can we ''abort'' babies literally hours or minutes before birth?

"Since you pro life just wanna make a strawman argument about pro choice being a supporter of abortion.''
-Because that is at the deep of your whole side. You don't care about women having the freedom to choose, you care that they speciffically have the freedom to abort, regardless of circumstance or results. I do believe that the argument is not pro-choice and pro-life but pro-abortion and pro-life.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere A fact in your opinion however we still have the rights to advocate abolishing the law as it's not exactly fair. It is in fact pro lifes are putting laws for abortion but pro choice putting laws for keeping an unwanted fetus doesn't exist. "So can we ''abort'' babies literally hours or minutes before birth?" <-- sure they technically can but it's still pointless as they've given all the time to decide to abort. It's not a matter of "it's just an hour or minute" but it's infact the baby isn't born and developed. You can cancel a downloading file that took days at 98% but would you? I mean no one is stopping you it's still your choice. But having to think logically, it would be a waste to decide at that minute. But if you made up your mind then sure. Still not born mean still not born. "You don't care about women having the freedom to choose, you care that they speciffically have the freedom to abort, regardless of circumstance or results." And I'm a pro life for a reason/ The freedom of circumstances or result, if they feel it's worth it to decide at the last minute then it's their choice not mine. Even tho I feel it's a waste just like wasting food, there's still no reason to add laws for it. And did I say every girl should abort? No. That's what pro abortions would say.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Which is also a mirror to what pro lifes would say "every girl should keep their "child" (basically just a fetus)"

[Lightning8]

Well the animal kingdom is not the only example of life on Earth. And a fetus is far more complex than other forms of life, as it has become more than just a cell, or even a cluster of cells, like a sperm or egg; it's become an organism, an individual life form by definition; because it isn't just your dna, like e. g. a cancer, but new dna. But it's also made of human dna, which means it is a human organism, by empirical scientific definition.

[ThisDudeHere]

Okay, fuck this, I'm done. You support aborting a baby that's only minutes away from being born. To put it very bluntly - that is not just insane but inhuman.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere It's ok to be butthurt triggered but we all know that doesn't prove anything. It's either you fail to see the difference between pro choice and pro abortion or you just wanna straw man with your your will.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 Talk about life forms, I never said a fetus is not a life form. I'm saying a fetus is not a human life just like eggs and sperm cells themselves. Even if you put them all together, both cells undeveloped is not equal to a human being. But if you really insist then that's just your opinion. However we're still against the fact that you're putting laws for your opinion and interfere with other people's point of view and you call it fair for whatever reason.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@ThisDudeHere Also it's inhumane in your opinion. I don't care if you feel that way. We still have the rights to feel we need to abolish your hypocritical laws.

[ThisDudeHere]

And we feel that we have to abolish this degenerate lunacy on your part.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Also there are laws made by prolife that when a mother performs abortion, the penalty is death. Very humane indeed. Yeah you feel the need to put lost for it and you don't think you are selfish for whatever reason

[Aiko_E_Lara]

*Put laws

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Also how about the put laws for pro-lifes like you? Let's say your penalty is death for interfering with our point of view just like your penalty for abortion? Be thankful we don't go that far

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And also while you're saying i support aborting a fetus only minutes from being born, no i am saying we still have the choice whether they feel is a waste or not. Read again

[Lightning8]

What is the different between a human life and a human life form?

[Lightning8]

difference*

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 Nothing but did I say a fetus is either of it? No.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 But I'm saying it's a life form. Not a human life form. Get it? The dictionary is available everywhere.

[Lightning8]

I used a dictionary definition to come to my conclusion.

So a human fetus is not a human life form. I just don't think that's true.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 "I just don't think that's true." <-- you just don't think that's true. We don't so put your laws away.

[Lightning8]

Well I should've said that I know it isn't true; because not only does saying thar a human fetus is not a human life form completely ignore the obvious empirical and scientific evidence and fact, but it contradicts itself even semantically.

And I'm not trying to change laws, I'm just trying to apply the other perspective.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 While all of those "empirical and scientific evidence and fact" are stated there, it's not 100% confirmed it's a human life but it's just pro life who confirmed it themselves. Looking for a cherry picked data science has to offer while ignore how a fetus has a lot of missing feature a human being have. Because all they look it is "it's a human because (Insert feelings here)"

[Lightning8]

Would you say that a fetus is a frog?

[Lightning8]

Or closer to a frog

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 No. A fetus is a fetus. A frog is a frog. A human is a human. Don't even try making strawman fallacies. If that didn't work before, what makes you think that'll still work now?

[Lightning8]

Does a fetus belong in the animal kingdom?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 It doesn't nor the human society. It belongs to a womb. Just like sperms belong to balls.

[Lightning8]

Well that makes some sense. If that's the case, a woman could make it on her own though, like she can make an egg, and a man can make a sperm; because a fetus would just be another cell or cluster of cells in the body, with completely matching dna, and no dna that is independant of the mother or father, for that matter.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Lightning8 Wanna make bread? Combine flour, eggs, milk, sugar, yeast and water. They will turn into a dough. Not a bread unless you bake and wait for it. Wanna make a human? Combine an egg and a sperm. It will turn into a fetus. Not a human unless it's fully developed out of the womb. You can start eating a dough if you want. It's already a bread in your logic. Now you might be saying. But a fetus is not an inanimate object. It's predictable and I can still say "so does sperms and eggs". And just because I'm a pro choice who don't see a fetus as a human being, does that mean I don't put value on it? You put value on your car and you don't like it if someone crashes it. But if you crash your own car on purpose, you won't be in prison for it. Same goes with a fetus. If someone destroy my wife's fetus, I can sue him/her. Considered as destroying someone's property.

[Lightning8]

Ah, I can accept that metaphor at face value

[Stephen_77]

Another baby killer who has chosen eternal hell

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And another anti choice who make strawman arguments about "baby killers" interfering with point of views and hypocritically they don't think they are evil for whatever reason.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@AlexaBloggergirl Who cares?

[Stephen_77]

It's a shame that such a ugly bastard like you wasn't aborted.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Stephen_77 Quite a shame people like you who haven't accomplished anything and who knows nothing but name calling wasn't aborted.

[Stephen_77]

Go look in the mirror, you ugly bastard.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Just wondering what kind of mirrors do you have? Shattered ones? That explains why you are so not used to looking at normal people like me.

[Ámayas_20]

I've not watched this specific video but you're very wrong about the pro life position.

[sheepdip]

This is really simple.

Can a person use your body, against your will, to filter their blood and feed off you?

If you want to grant that ability to a person then you are granting someone rights over another person.

[Lightning8]

If you trap that person inside your body against their will, then how else can they survive?

[sheepdip]

How can you conclude that a woman has willfully trapped them?

[Lightning8]

I didn't mention intent. But in the case of an accident you also can't just commit a serious crime that impairs another's body, while expecting the law to just let you dodge responsibility for it. So, that principal also applies to situations that don't technically involve criminality. Now, rape is truly a grey area, where no matter which side you argue for, there's no way in my opinion that a woman shouldn't have a say so. But otherwise I don't really know my position on this topic, other than maybe to not touch anything yet

[Remarkably_Plain]

Nothings ever simple. Morals are hard and complicated

[slatyb]

A fetus is not a person

[sheepdip]

*I didn't mention intent. But in the case of an accident you also can't just commit a serious crime that impairs another's body, while expecting the law to just let you dodge responsibility for it.*

Abortion is currently legal in most western nations, so we can both agree that it is not a crime - whether it should be is a topic for later.

My take, from your point here, is that, essentially, somebody's body is going to be violated and their personal integrity be compromised. Am I correct in saying this?

Would I also be correct in saying that, as you've mentioned *not touching anything yet* that you'd rather the foetus remain unviolated whilst it violates the woman's right to bodily autonomy?

If so, and please correct me if I'm wrong (I don't want this to become a mess), would that not mean that you'd grant rights to the foetus over the woman?

[sheepdip]

*Nothings ever simple. Morals are hard and complicated*

But this is an easy catch; can I use your body to filter my blood?

No? Then why can a foetus?

[Lightning8]

Addressing your first point, "So, that principal also applies to situations that don't technically involve criminality."

Well, I don't think your take is quite correct. It should be more like "If gestation is innately violating to the female, then conception inside the female is innately violating to the unborn." But I don't think of gestation as a violation of the female body, but rather a quite necessary function of it. I mean, you can drink alchohol, but when your body functions the way it should when you do drink it, you can't say that the way your bodily autonomy is being "violated"; because it's in the condition it is supposed to be in, due to your actions upon it. And you have to wait until your drunken state subsides.

[Lightning8]

*... you can't say that your bodily autonomy is being "violated"...*

[sheepdip]

*And you have to wait until your drunken state subsides*

And if I don't want to be drunk I can do things to prevent it, both prior to drinking and post drinking. If I don't want the hangover that comes with drinking then I can mitigate that both prior and post as well.

In other words, I can take action to correct my actions. I have sovereignty over my body and can do what I choose with it, and that includes not allowing it to go through a process I don't want it to go through.

[Lightning8]

And about a "woman's rights" vs a "fetus' rights". One could say that a newborn baby has no value, but is only potential, because it hasn't done anything, and is therefore pure and innocent, but certainly potential. That's not very different from a fetus, only that a baby is more developed. If you had to choose who's life is more valuable between a grown woman or a newborn baby, which would you choose? Why not choose the woman on the basis that she is more developed?

[Lightning8]

And you certainly can take responsibility over your own body, and just your body, especially when it does not harm others

[Lightning8]

personal responsibility is a moral obligation after all

[sheepdip]

*And about a "woman's rights" vs a "fetus' rights". One could say that a newborn baby has no value, but is only potential, because it hasn't done anything, and is therefore pure and innocent, but certainly potential. That's not very different from a fetus, only that a baby is more developed. If you had to choose who's life is more valuable between a grown woman or a newborn baby, which would you choose? Why not choose the woman on the basis that she is more developed?*

I would choose the woman who currently has a life and viability outside the womb. How is this not obvious from my previous statements?

I don't think. I would ever say that a foetus has no value: I think all things have value to some extent.

[Lightning8]

Oh, and by "not touch anything" I actually was referring to not changing the laws

[sheepdip]

*And you certainly can take responsibility over your own body, and just your body, especially when it does not harm others*

Except that someone else's body is now directly competing for my bodily resources. You know women can die from pregnancy and birth right?

[sheepdip]

*personal responsibility is a moral obligation after all*

Yes that's exactly why I think the person who takes action in this scenario is the better person for it.

[sheepdip]

*Oh, and by "not touch anything" I actually was referring to not changing the laws*

Wait.

For clarity, what is your position? Pro choice or pro life?

[Lightning8]

It wasn't obvious to me that you would choose the woman. One would think that most people would at least save the child instead of say, his or her own self. But to the question, most answers I've heard is that the child should be saved.

[Lightning8]

"Wait.

For clarity, what is your position? Pro choice or pro life?"

"But otherwise I don't really know my position on this topic, other than maybe to not touch anything yet"

[sheepdip]

*It wasn't obvious to me that you would choose the woman. One would think that most people would at least save the child instead of say, his or her own self. But to the question, most answers I've heard is that the child should be saved.*

Hypothetical for you. Remember that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Deveto film where they implant an embryo into Arny?

That happens to you. Lets even say you thought it was a good idea at the time. But now you don't want this. Should you not have the right to make a choice about your own body?

[sheepdip]

*But otherwise I don't really know my position on this topic, other than maybe to not touch anything yet*

See, that would be a real swell and snarky answer if you'd made it plain what the laws were where you're from.

[Lightning8]

I haven't seen that movie. But I'm not against abortion if it's going to actually kill you, because that will likely kill the baby too.

Abortion is legal

[sheepdip]

*I haven't seen that movie. But I'm not against abortion if it's going to actually kill you, because that will likely kill the baby too. Abortion is legal*

So you've basically commented to say nothing.

[Lightning8]

What do you mean

[sheepdip]

You haven't contributed anything to the discussion. You haven't advanced any new thinking or even tried to explain your own personal take on the matter. This was a reply for the sake of replying.

[Lightning8]

Well, them maybe you haven't been reading what I had to say to listen, but only to respond.

[Lightning8]

then*

[Lightning8]

I tend to have discussions that may include a debate, but at the end of the day, it's just a discussion, and intellectual honesty can be displayed.

People tend to only engage in debate around these topics. And a debate is actually a zero sum endeavor, where not only aren't you open to the views of others' that could change your own, but you dogmatically reject them; because you're just trying to win. Debate actually isn't helpful, and that's probably why you haven't found anything new or contributory. Because I'd clearly stated where I stood quite early on, for example.

[betaTester]

@Lightning8 "in the case of an accident you also can't just commit a serious crime that impairs another's body"
Firstly, this comparison is simply vacuous because there is no body or human before the `accident`. A car hits empty space and produces a body, and now the driver has to take care of that body and agree to push said body through their orifice, among other sufferings? lol
Secondly, using words such as 'crime' and 'impairs' suggest you already chose to be dogmatic, because people who don't share your dogmas would never accept your premise i. e. the usage of these terms. It's a fallacy called begging the question en.wikipedia.org/.../Begging_the_question
It's like saying: "God exists because God created the world". But people who don't accept that God exists would never accept that God created the world to begin with, so it begs the question in the premise. Nobody can use this type of arguments and claim to be intellectually honest, unless they are also lacking in cognitive ability.

"trap that person inside your body against their will"
Same as above, this sentence dogmatically assumes there was a person, with a will, who existed, BEFORE they were trapped. But before the trapping, there was no person. It's clearly vacuous. Also it begs the question, because people would not agree it's an act of trapping.

To make it easier to understand, if your central argument relies on an empty collection of objects, then it's vacuous and adds nothing to the discussion, like "all Americans who have been to Jupiter should be the presidents".

[Lightning8]

Did you see the original comment I was responding to?

[betaTester]

@Lightning8
Yes. The original argument doesn't beg the question. You don't need to be pro choice to agree that pregnancy involves a life form feeding off nutrients from inside the body of a host, and blood needs to be filtered too. These are observable phenomena, so are the numerous physical and mental damage on the host. The only way to justify all those sufferings is with the host's consent and bonding with the new life form.

The original argument is also not vacuous because it does not rely on the implicit assumption about the existence the life form before it exists, like person A was living normally, then person B trapped them inside B's body. Except in reality A did not exist before the trapping.

Tbh I dont think there would be much disagreement on this issue if everyone has the same level of education, understanding and empathy.

[Ámayas_20]

Ah yes so because a woman would be inconvenienced for 9 months the baby should die right?

Now I have a daughter, pregnancy and labour are no walk in the park mine was particularly difficult and of course some people have it worse. Women's bodies are designed to do this, in the western world (Where abortion is generally legal) we have good enough medical care the chances of pregnancy or labour permanently affecting you is really low. If you're really that terrified of pregnancy don't let someone put their dick in you.

[Anonymous]

Unless the groups and individuals who vehemently oppose abortion have decided to adopt, financially and emotionally support all the children who would've been aborted before birth until a natural parent would ordinarily die, (79 years on average, with average age of women at abortion being about 30, so the parent lives at least 49 years past birth) these groups or individuals have no say in the matter of whether a potential child's life continues to birth or is terminated before birth by a potential parent in question. Though many prolife agencies want to help women during and shortly after pregnancy, there are none who support a financially indigent woman or checks on whether this woman gets appropriate work, the child gets schooling and lives well until they leave home after high school. This is the irony of prolife groups. And it is indeed a realistic concern if a woman cannot afford a child. 50 percent of women getting abortions already have children. 56 percent were using birth control. Having a child in these circumstances threatens the new child and the living children with further poverty. When perfect, inexpensive birth control is readily available to all and everyone gets proper sex education, the need for abortion will probably disappear, just as the need for smallpox vaccination has.

[Ámayas_20]

I'm going to disagree, here in the U. K. sex ed can even go too far, condoms are available for free in loads of places hell you can order free condoms online, all birth control is free, and we still have loads of abortions. The issue is people see abortion as a perfectly valid option not a tragedy, I'm pro life but I know abortion couldn't just be out right banned there would need to be a slow change. At the end of the day I stand by if you're not willing to at least give birth to that baby and give them to another who wants a child you should be having vaginal sex.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ámayas_20 Sounds like your sex educators aren't stressing the fact that birth control is not 100 percent safe or foolproof. ALSO, sexual PRACTICE is quite different from statistical outcomes. Most women who have abortions were using birth control. We don't know HOW they were using birth control, HOWEVER. Current market pills have to be taken ON THE HOUR every single day. If you miss that hour, you have to use barrier birth control... a condom and foam or other spermicide. How many young women do you think have back up birth control? Or even ACKNOWLEDGE that they need to have it and then use it? If it's inconvenient, many people just roll the dice. Therefore, the outcome of badly practiced birth control is the last ditch method: abortion. It should be stressed that abortion has consequences that could later in life make it difficult to get pregnant or carry through a pregnancy. Abortion is MAJOR SURGERY that has additional risks that could cause disability or death. There is no condom or spermicide that causes disability or death. BUT the very young oftem dismiss these realities. So medical practitioners and educators are not doing their jobs well. I was scared to DEATH of getting pregnant and got reliable birth control and if I failed to take it on time I didn't HAVE sex. I didn't have backup available. So I abstained. Abortions were available, but who the fuck wants to get one of those! Sex will always be available. Who is so desperate? I also said NO to several men. I had to say it REPEATEDLY because they were so insistent. Maybe some young women cave to this pressure. I had a future in mind for myself and a plan. Abortion was not in that plan. I don't know how to change this cultural failure. But I know it can be altered.

[Ámayas_20]

It is stressed birth control is not 100% reliable. Also I'm not sure why you're preaching this when you're so behind on your knowledge of modern birth control, not only is the pill one of so many other types of birth control it no longer has to be taken on the hour, the combined pill gives you a huge 12hr window and the progesterone only pill now gives you you a three hour window now. 54% of women is a tiny majority it's not enough to say that women are generally being safe, it's a good start but no where near enough. If women aren't ensuring that they're using a back up contraception if they're main form fails then that's just as irresponsible as using no contraception at all, it's no excuse.

You're right statistically in the western world abortion has more risks than pregnancy and birth, especially later term abortions. You did exactly as all women should if for any reason you wouldn't be having safe sex don't have sex end of story.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ámayas_20 Yes, but MOST young horny people don't do as I did. I do know there are combo pills and loops and birth control inserts etc. Those weren't around when I started using the pill and I chose not to use an IUD loop because of link to endometriosis. You live in a country where the national health PAYS for all of those. That isn't the case here. Medicaid doesn't pay for ANY condoms or spermicides, the cheapest and easiest available barrier methods that are very reliable. Other barriers still on the market are diaphragms, sponges and cervical caps. They are cheap and if used properly reliable. But, they cost out of pocket. They also require a woman to insert them properly and remove them after each sexual encounter... or having to leave it in for 24 hours. Many young women are squeamish and won't use a tampon, much less a birth control device that requires her to insert spermicide then push the device up to her cervix, THEN either have to leave it in or have to remove it... It makes sex "real".. It means they have to "plan" sex. It's not spontaneous.. All of that nonsense. But, it doesn't matter what method of BC you use if you're not using it properly and consistently. And no, I'm not right on top of all the newest stuff. What I do know is not all of it is covered by Medicaid, the only program for low income women in the US. When it's NOT covered and people have little to no money, won't see a doctor or go to Planned parenthood for a consult this happens. There's the vaginal ring, IUDs many, types. But, in the US sex education is spotty at best. Uneducated people take chances that people who know the consequences never do. The very young also take more chances. Abortion is a very safe procedure. It is NOT more risky than pregnancy or birth. 90+ percent of abortions are done in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. About 1 in 11K women die in pregnancy. About 1 in 167K die from abortion complications.

[Ámayas_20]

Okay on your note about horny young people I genuinely don't give a fuck, if you're not taking responsibility you shouldn't be letting a guy fuck you end of story. I don't care if that's due to your financial situation or because you're just an idiot. Also I find it hard to believe that your average abortion candidate a middle to upper class 30 something year old can't afford BC, back to my previous point if you can't afford BC you shouldn't be fucking. I know there's ways to access cheap and in some cases free BC especially for young people in America, I'm not as ignorant as you'd like to believe, if you're going to be having sex the responsibility to find out about and use BC is on you. Never mind that all of this is moot as my point is the UK has all of these things amd still high abortion rates, the issue is women are being stupid, careless, irresponsible, or in denial maybe all of the above.

P. S As I stated abortion in the western world is more dangerous than birth in the western world, don't use figures that include third world countries here. Oh and death is just one of the ridiculous amount of risks for a woman.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ámayas_20 Those stats were not from third world countries. They were from the US.
Cost and access for a middle to upper class 30 something is not the issue. But birth control USE is. There is the case that the method failed and there is also the case that the method was not used properly and therefore ALSO failed.
You are quite draconian in your beliefs. If you can't afford or properly use bc you SHOULDN'T be fucking. Girl. Come on. When has shouldn't ever stopped people from fucking. You think we'd have such a crowded planet if people paid attention to SHOULD'NT?

It is quite true there are ways to get cheap and free BC for young people in America. This has nothing to do with me believing you are ignorant. What you might be less informed about is human behavior.

Of course it makes more sense to be responsible for yourself and your body if you plan to have sex.
The abortion rate is not solely the responsibility of WOMEN either. The only way a baby can be made is with sperm. Dont blame everything on 50 percent of the equation. MEN are being stupid, careless, irresponsible in denial or all or part of the former. Maybe women feel pressured to have sex with men or they will "lose" them? I KNOW I've felt pressured to have unprotected sex with partners in my youth. It's why I got on the birth control pill. And once I DID have unprotected sex. Nothing came of it. But I did it. And recently, I had a sexual partner, who though he couldn't impregnate me, kept complaining about the fact that he had to wear a condom. I ignored him. I didn't know his sexual history and though we were friends, we weren't life partners.
I think it's quite hard for some women to stand up to men saying they aren't going to use a condom, they don't LIKE using a condom, it's up to YOU to use birth control... etc. You've gotta have self esteem and a life plan to want to protect yourself. Many young women do not.

[Ámayas_20]

Well just as you need to update your knowledge on birth control you really need to update your statistics as you're giving out FALSE information. Around 700-800 women die annually in the US from childbirth and around 50,000 face complications out of 4 million. So no childbirth in the US is not dangerous eating is literally more dangerous than childbirth.

I'm not sure you understand me I don't think because women choose to be stupid and irresponsible that is due cause to allow abortion, I'm well aware it doesn't stop anyone but guess what? That's their problem actions have consequences anyone with more than a few brain cells knows the risks of sex.

I really do feel for these women but the fact is it is women who get pregnant, not men so yes we need to far more aware of bc than they do especially as there's literally only the option of condoms (A really ineffective for of bc when used alone) or sterilisation and I'm sorry but if you're not grown up enough to tell a man fucking no then you're wayyyy to immature to be having sex and here's an idea maybe stop fucking every tom dick and harry wait for a man you can actually trust. If you're having sex with someone who you're not in a committed relationship with then it is entirely your job to make sure you're on bc and yes men having casual sex should ensure they wear a condom but we're the ones who need to be enforcing that

Stop pretending being irresponsible is okay stop pretending being an idiot is okay, if you do stupid things bad things will probably happen to you.

[Anonymous]

Personally always viewed pro-lifers as the most pathetic of hypocrites & I happen to come from a generationally religious family (deacons, priests, etc. not just simple-minded sheep filling the pews).

They bark like dogs about how pro-choice is "evil" - even in vile situations like rape & insect - & yet ultimately offer little to no support to the women who are destined to carry these children or keep them.

Have they never heard thou who is without sin shall cast the first stone & yet they continually sin and sin and sin by judging others (something the bible says no mortal has any right to do) this way?

[Stephen_77]

You took the Bible out of context. You support baby killing and have chosen eternal hell.

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 No, sheep, I didn't. That's exactly what pathetic pro-lifers do. Too stupid to realize that abortion was mentioned in the Bible. And are you unaware, pro-lifer, that there's more religions than you can likely count?

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 In fact, pro-lifer, what *do* you know of the Bible? Likely nothing. That is pro-lifer motto. Know nothing, take the bible out of context, etc.

The ideology of abortion - though the word is never mentioned - is relatively clear.

If someone else causes premature birth it is a fine to the perceived value of the child per MORTAL eyes. Nothing about hell and less about god.

Now the people in serious shit are those who blatantly & willingly cause harm to a pregnant mother that causes her death. In fact, Exodus 21:22 says a father has every right to return favour with favour, an eye for an eye & kill those who kill his pregnant wife.

As many pro-life laws, specifically those that are extremely limiting, will cause mothers' deaths. Those responsible for such pro-life laws will have to return favour with favour per god's ruling & thus they are far more likely to go to hell.

[Stephen_77]

You're talking absolute bollocks. Whatever pathetic excuse you come up with, you are still a supporter of baby killing and your reward will be to spend eternity burning in hell after you die.

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 Quoted the Bible you dimwitted twit. Are you saying that the Bible is complete bollocks? If that's the case what leg do pro-lifers have to stand on? Nothing. They are then little more than the biggest of all immoral sinners.

[Stephen_77]

You quoted nothing in the Bible that supports abortion, you lying snake.

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 Exodus 21:22 you ignorant fool. But believe what you will. I doubt you've ever read the Bible just believe whatever bullshit some priest preaches like a good little sheep too simple to think for yourself.

[Stephen_77]

I've read it, moron. Nowhere does it support abortion. You absolute bellend.

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 Yes you read it. Right now. A google search. Hence why it took so long to respond.
by the way wherever did I say it supported abortion, you nitwit? The word abortion, if you've actually read the Bible (which you never have), is never covered. It doesn't exist.

Exodus 21:22 is the closest thing to abortion and it says anyone who causes a premature birth is to be fined. You blubbered on about hell for abortion which per the Bible itself doesn't happen. Your claim abortion = hell is sinning though because man (per the Bible you've never read) has no right to judge another person so.

Exodus 21:22 is the closest thing to abortion & it more or less says man has permission from god to kill anyone whose blatant & willful actions cause the death of his pregnant wife. As many anti-abortion ideology & laws will be blatant & willful actions causing death to pregnant women by the Bible & god's saying they're to be punished extremely (by death) and thus that makes them sinners.

[Stephen_77]

You're so dumb. Under the new covenant, after Jesus Christ, people who support sin and evil will burn in hell after they die. Why can't your tiny pea brain understand that?

[Opinion Owner]

@Stephen_77 Yes. You'll enjoy the heat, I think. Because the only dumb one would be **you**. Seriously. How pathetic can you be to try to take on someone raised in a religious family with your nonsense and mindless blubbering about sin when you've no idea about abortion in the Bible or the Bible / Christianity itself.

Talk of me playing a game with a child.

[Stephen_77]

You're so dumb and ignorant it's depressing. What else would I expect from a baby killer

[Ámayas_20]

I mean you see pro lifers as only religious nuts so that's understandable, look into pro life atheists we exist and our views are based on actual science, not religion.

[DJZest]

A note to truth seekers: There are forces active everywhere, especially on popular forums like G@G, where people-bots, followers of mass opinion/emotion, post opinions that are contrary to what is good and true. They have been programmed through mass media for negative reaction to whatever the powers that be hate, possessing insufficient awareness to realize what is actually going on within themselves, which would be necessary to counteract the uprising urge to go through with their typical whiny attitude. PC warriors.

As most cultivated souls know, one needs to research thoroughly, think individually, and contemplate deeply.

[Kurαȷ]

I see what pro-life people see.
It's whatever that their utter lack of capacity for forming independent, informed opinions allows them to see.

I get it, when you don't have a brain of your own you follow dogma and your emotions, but that is, objectively, not the right thing to do, and I think it is perfectly fair for those who actually do have the capacity to think, to make the choices for those who don't.

[Chobitsmaster]

Just because someone doesn't share your opinion does not make them sheep. Well informed and educated people of all opinions can still disagree with you.

[Kurαȷ]

@Chobitsmaster It does make them wrong, however.

[slatyb]

A 12-werk fetus is not a person, not a "someone", not an "unborn baby'. There is no such thing as an "unborn baby'". A baby is the result of a live birth.

[Boppy]

So... are chicken eggs vegetarian because there's no chicken?

[slatyb]

@Boppy What silliness is that? A chicken egg is animal protein. But it's not a chicken. A fertilized egg will become a chick if it hatches. Then most likely it will be killed and eaten a few weeks later.

[Boppy]

That "silliness" is me attempting to model your perspective in a way I can grasp more easily.

I take it that if you were a vegetarian you'd be fine eating fertilized chicken eggs?

[slatyb]

@Boppy People become vegetarians for different reasons. Some because they believe it's a healthier diet, some because they believe that raising animals for food is destructive to the environment, and some because they are opposed to killing animals for meat. Most vegetarians do consume eggs and dairy products, but vegans do not.

[slatyb]

AFAIK people don't eat fertilized eggs but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure a fertilized won't develop if it's refrigerated.

[Boppy]

Yeah, it won't develop. You're kinda taking this down a direction I wasn't planning. My thinking was, if you were vegetarian because you opposed the killing of animals, would you in this hypothetical not eat meat?

[Boppy]

*a fertilized egg

[slatyb]

@Boppy I'm not a vegetarian. But I will say that a mature cow or pig is more conscious than a human fetus.

[Ámayas_20]

Great please tell me when they added that to the definition of the word baby

[PurpleStorm]

''if you have a shred of honesty, take a moment and consider the very real possibility that you a human being might be wrong about certain things or not be seeing what other people see'' I really hope you follow your own advice and realize people who are pro choice also have very valid reasons behind it.

[Walrus_au]

What an intriguing idea.

I know some other groups of people who say things like that.
"This is the only book you need to read about life/morality/jesus" etc etc

Since such an attitude has consistently shown to be the product of a ridgidly closed mind that promotes ignorance as a virtue. I'm going to be inclined to recommend people find as many other and better sources of information as possible.

[NorthwestRider]

Who cares what someone else is doing to their own body

[Infearmal]

Imagine thinking a fetus is your on body. Totally already bought by the cynagogue of Satan.

[Chobitsmaster]

To the other dude replied: Tone the Evangelical down like, all the notches

[Ámayas_20]

It's not your body you kill

[ThisDudeHere]

You don't convince others about the validity of your cause or beliefs by claiming that they should just ignore any and all information they already have and simply trust your sources because why not. For that reason alone, I'm not watching it.

[glutendan]

Is this a joke. We are supposed to ignore everything else in favor or some video a random person online picked out?

[John_Doesnt]

It's not one of the most controversial topics in history. It was never controversial until recently when politicians realized they could use it as a tool to gain votes from conservatives and religious zealots.

[Ámayas_20]

You really don't understand history if you think abortion hasn't always been controversial.

[John_Doesnt]

@Ámayas_20 you don't understand history at all.
Oh look a woman who doesn't know any better what are the odds.
memestatic1.fjcdn.com/.../...e87392b35b8533a1d.jpg

[Ámayas_20]

Lmao show me any evidence that abortion has only 'recently' become controversial, you won't but yknow even a complete asshole such as yourself gets a third chance to provide any proof😂😂😂

[John_Doesnt]

@Ámayas_20 abortion is mentioned in the bible and everyone was okay with it.

[Ámayas_20]

You're right it is... as a sin. I'm not religious whatsoever ever but I've read both the New Testament and the old, causing the death of an unborn child was always faced you with a punishment of some kind. Also can you just tone down the sexism believe me most women don't even think you deserve an opinion on this topic so I'd shut the fuck up with that😂😂😂

[John_Doesnt]

@Ámayas_20 the bible never says abortion is a sin. You dumb woman. Get back in the kitchen

[Ámayas_20]

Lmao ight dude I'm leaving this, you literally don't know shit😂

[Anonymous]

Sorry but I will not watch a video posted by someone who tells me it's the only video I need to watch on any subject because I know before I even begin that it will be biased.

[Parker85]

It really comes down to when does life begin? If you don't think it's a life then killing it isn't a problem. If you do then its murder, so its important to distinguish that. Personally I'm pro life and see it at conception.

[slatyb]

We routinely kill living animals. We don't kill people. So the question is "is a fetus as person?" and the next question is "what makes living human cells a person?" Do you think a body being kept alive by a respirator after brain death is a person? What about a fetus with anencephaly (no brain)? What about a 0.1mm 200-cell blastocyst?

[Lightning8]

What is the difference between a human life, and a human life form?

[Anonymous]

I'm pro-choice and this video does nothing to make me want to change my mind.

[Ámayas_20]

I'm pro life, I didn't watch this video but honestly this doesn't need to but please listen to pro life points and not just the crazy religious ones. You never have to agree but always stay informed, I believe pro life people should do the same for the pro choice side.

[tHISpLACEiSbONKERZ]

100% sure I don't need to watch any of them.

[jimmy2]

Its just simply wrong

[SecretGardenBlood65]

Good mytake