Why Contemporary Christian Pastors Have it Backward

[jennifer_bloom]

One thing my pastor prayed during bible study is that we would during the study hear the truth and not what we want to hear

I find this prayer to be offensive

Why would a true God follower not want to hear the truth but would rather want to hear the lie instead

The pastor also said we should do what God wants us to do and not what we want to do

Once again I find this offensive

If you love God why would you not want to do what God wants you to do

And why would you want to do what God does not want you to do?

If you love God why would you hate volunteering with disabled people or fundraising for humanitarian aid?

If you love God why would you love junk food and dirty language comedians?

So the pharisees condemn themselves by saying they do not want to hear the truth when they say they should hear the truth and not what they want to hear

And the pharisees condemn themselves by saying they do not want to do Gods will by saying they should do God’s desires and not their desires

If your a real Christian you will do Gods will - not because your afraid of punishment but because you love God and because you love God you want what God wants

I used a photo of college to show us graduation is about celebrating your service as a joyous occasion and not about mourning it and hating on it

[COMMODOREII]

You are wise my friend 😎👍

[MrTaboo]

Because of sin.

[The_Sword]

the simple question that unravels your thesis:

how do you know that do actually love God, or that you do truly want to love God?

And in relation to your answer to the above question:

how do you know that an answer given to that question, isn't your vanity which has drawn you away from God, through the false conviction that you have drawn closer?

And if your displeasure and offense, is extended to answering questions aswell as to prayers:

How do you know that your reticence to humbly grapple within the realm of faith, to temper or refine it through work and trembling in the service of effecting a perfected salvation, isn't your vanity that has drawn you away from God, through the false conviction that you have drawn closer to him?

The first works is the discerning the spirits.

Discerning the spirits means growth by questioning: in my understanding of the doctrine, it is not a bad thing to develop and test each faculties in your personality; you are dealing with a religion that speaks of rebirth, communion within a spiritual body engaged a individual and collective self-reflection (breaking the bread, breaking down the understanding, and feeding it to each other, thus eating it twice), but you speak of unilateral and solitary faith that is private and unerring in its unwillingness to openly communicate, and thereby make susceptible your beliefs to shared inspection or possible revision and duplication by others understanding: that attitude bottles up the gift that could be shared to others, as the common blood of communion, in the only begotten Son.

I cannot speak to the merit of teachers, and the quality of doctrine of those which I do not know, perhaps, if there were refinements to be made, your church would not be spiritually alive enough to facilitate those gifts: I don't know what culture of so-called Christianity you are involved with, my own understanding is vastly distinct from most contemporary backgrounds.

Try reading 1st John Chapter 4, in the King James Version (KJV); but sadly, the scriptures are not open to most people.

Another basic hole of your thesis:
How do you know, that do you in fact, truly know God, and what God is to your mind, and how your mind should relate to God?

This is not an easy question to answer, even by those with at least some genuine spiritual understanding: the trinity is mysterious at first, and until that mystery is finished, you cannot know, or truly believe in the Christian God: you might be on the path to believing.. but without fear or trembling, it is unlikely you will make authentic progress... What is a genuine humility, which proceeds out of the spirit of God, this is a deep spiritual question, following that question, seeking the kingdom, that is what process salvation could be roughly described as centering on, in the growth stages of the sapling that has yet to produce the works of heaven. What does it mean to be one of the Sons of God, a child of God; these answers cannot just be feelings, they must be understandings that can be convincingly issued to edify others and rebuke the wickedness of the world's false authorities.. false authorities that are not simple to diagnose or dispel, because the spirit of man has many disguises, as angels of light.

ie.
Blessed are the peacemakers;- those peacemakers are not the conflict avoiders.

[The_Sword]

Also, and to reframe some of my earlier points: you reasoning, in your take, is both tautological, and only true by your own private powers to hold your definitions as the true.

Your premise is that you do, by definition, love God, and therefore already know what he wants, from you, to please him.

Christianity, is not about abstract world play around the concept of God.. accessing God requires something that you have to develop, an understanding about a far more complicated subject than just the Godhead, Jehova... it requires the only begotten Son. It is clear that the Christian culture to which you belong, treats Jesus Christ like another person, who lived 2000 years ago.. and that his significance is to provide a vicarious redemption..

It says in the scriptures, that God is not a lover of persons, and that God is a lover of the soul... the soul and spirit are not the same thing.. To give your soul to God, is only an abstract philosophical claim... all you can do is spiritual work, to give of your spirit, to develop the understanding of the mind of Christ, that understanding, is the redeemer, and is the only begotten Son.

The above is made clear, in 1st John Chapter 5, read in the King James version.

Christ Consciousness is the path to salvation, and it is not achieved by philosophy, but by internal work.

Ephesians chapter 4 explains the function of the Holy Church communion.

[RickPen]

People interpret things differently, which should come as no surprise, and we are prone to deluding ourselves. The prayer was meant to help people be more comfortable with uncomfortable truths.

Some Christians came from horrendous backgrounds of childhood abuse, drugs, extreme poverty and have PTSD from it. That doesn't magically disappear, and the renewing of the mind comes from studying the word and understanding the truths from it. Many times people need to be reminded, especially in church, as I have seen more judgment and condemnation hurled at people in need than online social media about social justice. Rumors, lies, all manner of ill speaking, and offense are taken because too many people prefer the facade of piety.

If you were so offended by the prayer, this is not the forum to vent your frustrations, but biblically you should have spoken to the one who offended you and discussed your view in kind, and I'm assuming that either didn't happen, or it didn't resolve your offense. That needs to be cleared, as being offended often leads to bitterness, which you should know.

Why are people averse to helping others? Those who actually can don't want to give up their comforts. Most simply can lend time, if they have it, to help others. I try to help in simple ways, such as repairing my neighbor's car for free to prevent an accident. It saves their life and others. It was a good deed and gave me a chance to discuss faith, especially after I showed him his (literally) falling apart tie rod ends. He later paid me, and it was the start of something good. Simply help others, and show love however possible. It doesn't only mean helping the homeless. Sometimes it means having a talk with someone to help them (or yourself) to grow in faith, and if one thinks they know everything in faith, they are that much further from the truth.

[jgokgotit]

I get what your pastor is getting at. Many times us Christians want to hear that we will achieve whatever goal we have (be it a career milestone, marriage by a certain age, etc.). What he is getting at is not letting the desires of our flesh and emotions blind us from God's Will. Even us Christians are vulnerable to the natural desires of our flesh. Human nature is to seek comfort and what makes us feel good, even if that thing that feels good is against God. He probably did not mean y'all are deliberately disobeying God. Instead, he is praying that you see the truth instead of being blinded by what you believe to be the truth. Look at the Crusades. They were some of the most horrific acts committed by Christians. The Crusaders were Christians and believed they were doing God's will, yet they committed horrible acts that blatantly violated God's laws. In their belief and emotions, they twisted God's truth despite trying to obey God. They did so because they acted outside of God's plan for them. Their hearts meant well, but they did not truly read God's word all the way through. The actions of the Crusaders are one of the biggest reasons why many nonbelievers condemn Christianity today and believe Christians to be hypocrites.

[jgokgotit]

However, one area Contemporary Pastors fail is talking about Revelation. Many pastors avoid that book entirely because it makes people uncomfortable, yet it is probably the most important book in the Bible. God does not command us to please people and make them feel good. He commands us to spread his word, both the pleasant and unpleasant parts.

[ZackBan]

Well I often think back on that one story in the bible when Jesus walked into the church (or whatever it was called) and found traders had turned it into a market so he kicked them all out.

I believe if Jesus walks into the church today to see what has become of his ministry and finds your pastor and all other "men of the cloth" he would kick them out once again and more violently this time.

You can hide behind the will of god all you like the truth is no one is really interested in the will of God on their own.
Religion has been used only to insight wars and murder and control through fear not to mention extortion across the centuries.

We've fallen far from the graces of God and no ammount of prayer will get us back there.

[jgokgotit]

Good way to put it. However, I do not believe the pastor Jennifer is mentioning is trying to misrepresent the word. If anything it seems like he is trying to ensure the church stays true. No human (including pastors) can truly accomplish that because we have all sinned and fall short.

[ZackBan]

Exactly. And yet you'll still find him taking confessions and handing out penances as if he's anointed by God himself.

That's the level of hypocrisy that makes church so corrupted.

[jgokgotit]

@ZackBan Penance is a Catholic thing. Protestant churches do not do that. The Bible even states directly that you cannot buy your way into forgiveness and Heaven. However, the Bible DOES tell us to give tithe to our churches to help out our churches and community. A tithe is 10%. The point of Tithe is to fun the church, not just to pay the pastor, but for the church's programs to help reach out to the community. "Penance" payments, aka Indulgences, were a Catholic practice and one of the many reasons Martin Luther criticized the Catholic church and started the Protestant Movement.

[ZackBan]

You're only adding to the point I'm trying to make. Churches and practices and books written by men.
The church (any church) is too far gone from the true word of God at this point.

We've changed and molded the book to fit our needs over the centuries so much that it's no longer possible to tell what is truth and what is fantasy.

[iambae]

Many people don't know the will of God and don't know God but know of God. There's a big difference.

It makes sense what he said. People don't want to be corrected or rebuked especially today.

I often ask people based on lifestyle and behavior on the United States how can you tell a Christian from a heathen? The sad truth is its almost impossible now.

2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Timothy 3:5 - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

[Massageman]

It's too bad that you find God's truth- rather than man's sin-filled interpretations- to be offensive. It's too bad that you find doing God's will- rather than man's sin-filled choices- to be offensive. After you accept Jesus as your Savior, the indwelling Holy Spirit will guide you to want to do God's will. The problem with your premise and supposition is that the examples you cite are more representative of the more traditional pastors and not the "do what you want regardless" "contemporary" pastors.

[AngieDD]

@jennifer_bloom I’ve seen some of your takes and I think you’re pretty balanced sometimes I watch out for your comments or questions. But regarding this you’re bereft of a fact “ that being human means; evil that’s trying to do good” loving God makes you reference him, adore him, worship, trust, obey and believe in him but still you’ll struggle with the flesh, didn’t Jesus get tempted immediately after he had fasted for 40 days and nights? For the spirit is willing but the soul is weak. Your pastor has only prayed that prayer for strength to uphold holiness, perseverance and long suffering. It’s not a prayer that should offend you.

[Nephilim000]

Pretty spot on. Unfortunately a lot of people proclaim themselves faithful in word but not deed

[Ineedmoneynow]

"Jessus" do as I say not as I do my children. The reason he kept Lucifer devil zatan with him its because he didn't want them running around like loose cannon balls. It's people staring at a guy wrestling some wild bear & everyone else just watches but does nothing.

[mattmanyah2]

We're not all perfect. You have your old man and your new man and you have to choose to be the new man... Your pastor's wise enough to know that your old man wants to be fed and wants to come out...

[jimmy2]

Let them who jave eyes let them see thosw who have hears let them hear.. we ate to be light in this dark world. One little light can change things. So be a witness, read tge Word, go to church, be full of the Holy Spirit, pray without stopping. God loves us and sinners

[hahahmm]

Where is your husband? The Bible says that when a woman has questions she should go home & ask her husband.

[Pete671]

pastors are usually control freaks who tell you what they want you to hear, not the true word of God, which you have to discover for yourself,,,
They're in it for the money, power, and prestige, I wouldn't trust any of them tbh,,,

[Anonymous]

Why are you easily offended? What your pastor prayed for was sincerity. Many people live and conduct superficial nominal Christian lives. This, unfortunately, is common in Christian churches...

[TheDarkReunion]

why would loving junk food and comedians be against god?

[genericname85]

a true god follower doesn't want to hear the truth, because the truth is that god is not real.

truth doesn't care if you're offended or not.

[KaylaD24]

Thats true the whole belief is a delusion and people get really emotionaly distraught when that delusion gets broken and the truth is revealed

[genericname85]

@KaylaD24 yup. the moment you start asking quetions, you find that there are no answers. and if you can't silence yourself and keep asking questions, the entire faith dissolves into nothing and you drop into complete chaos and have to rebuild your worldview, which is devastating for some, which is why i think that doctrin religion is by default imoral.

[latarnd]

Simply because we fight the flesh. "I do what I don't want to do..." it's in Romans I think.

[zagor]

I love how I can find your posts only looking at the heading and not the name.

[cloud9vortex1234]

People are sinners so that's the struggle people deal with.

[caramelpear]

You're fucking stupid. That's what they said dumbass. You also need to stop getting offended over stupid things like wanting junk food.