By believing in god I have everything to gain and nothing to lose. agree or disagree?

[Jsmithy7427]

Pascal states that "Either God exists, or he does not exist, and since neither proposition can be proved, we must wager. If we wager that God exists and we are right, we win everything. If we wager that God exists and we are wrong, we lose nothing. You would be impudent to wager that God does not exist."

[CountessSarah]

Pascals Wager is in my opinion the most flawed argument theists present.

There are four main issues I normally raise -

A) It phrases the gamble as a 50/50 coin toss, when really it's more like a lottery. There are who knows how many mutually exclusive beliefs that all promise an afterlife. I can't possibly accept all of them when they contradict or forbid other deities.

B) You could use the same argument to justify any claim. And it doesn't even need to be an opposing god claim, we could go to any supernatural claim - Why not carry a wooden stake with you - if vampires are real you'll have a weapon to defend yourself, if not, no big deal, right? An equally valid position, using Pascals Wager.

C) Who says I have nothing to lose? If I beleived a god existed, and accepted some branch of (For instance;) Christianity, there are undoubtedly things I would not do with my time, or things I would waste time doing.

D) The rules by which you gain access to heaven -
If belief is mandatory for heaven, then would your god be satisfied with my tentative acceptance of the claim, based purely on a 'safe bet'? Pascals Wager does nothing to actually convince anyone of anything, it just encourages people to hedge their bets. Based on the character of most god claims I'm aware of, this sort of belief wouldn't get you into their heaven.

[Jsmithy7427]

That is a perfect explanation, couldn’t have been said better.

[PondyPand]

but then if God exists, he cannot decide to punish those who use something he created (self choice) for those who do not believe in him. Also, to those so dead set against god existing, heaven wouldn't be somewhere they'd want to go anyway.
So no one wins or loses at all. Just believe, or don't, and not use religion as a focus point for trying to tell people how well their life is going.

[Agape93]

Disagree. Pascal’s wager only works when you focus on a singular god. I wonder how pissed off Jupiter Maximus would be if he was the only god?
Plus by adhering to the wager, assuming no other divine exists but God, he wouldn’t be too happy either. Do you really think he can’t tell you’re a false believer, as you’re just hedging a bet? Foolish

[Anpu23]

That is assuming a binary. The option that many gods exist wasn't implemented in the thought experiment, further there are multiple churches all claiming to be the correct church and condemning the others, so again a lack of binary. So to paraphrase, either the God of the bible is real or He isn't, if he is real then you must chose which of many faiths is the true and correct one. Further if he does not there may be multiple other gods that we may or may not be aware of, and each one has specific wants and desires, that we may or may not be aware of. Or there may be no god and to follow religion is a simple waste of time. Now your possibility of correct action is no longer 50/50 it's more 100,000 (or more) to 1 with a posible eternal consequence. Therefore one must follow ones heart in matters of religion rather than simple logic.

[Anpu23]

Thanks for MHO

[Kurαȷ]

You have a lot to lose- mental health, common sense, respect of other people.

Pascal was a lunatic thrown into complete poverty who believed that living in suffering and sickness is the natural state of a true Christian, he converted to Christianity after experiencing a "religious vision".
He subsequently died to complications of numerous health conditions after rejecting medical help.
The autopsy revealed that his condition caused him brain damage.

What he said was not wisdom, it was the sick mind of a lost man trying to cope with reality.
That's all religion ever is, a band aid.

[Jsmithy7427]

To clarify, I am not religious by any means and am merely searching for people’s opinion on the conundrum of Pascal’s wager.
However, as somebody who is not religious, I find it ridiculous to disregard the logic and reasoning that is evident in this conundrum by stating that it is irrelevant due to the character of the person who created it. To rebut your points, it is found that christians have on average, better manual health than atheists. And given the reasoning behind Pascal’s wager, it appears that the common sense would dictate that somebody should be religious, that paired with the fact that the majority of the people on the planet are religious. Finally, if you look down on or lose respect for people that have religious views, then I would suggest that you change your behaviour as it is, to be blunt, stupid.

[Kurαȷ]

" I find it ridiculous to disregard the logic and reasoning that is evident in this conundrum by stating that it is irrelevant due to the character of the person who created it. "

That was not my point.
My point was that Pascal himself demonstrated that you have everything to lose by living in a delusion.
His delusions literally caused his death, as he refused to get medical help explicitly due to his own faith.

And that's the point, living with delusions and rejecting reality is dangerous.
And not just for you, it's dangerous for people around you as well, as demonstrated by millennia of religiously motivated hatred, violence and persecution.

[Kurαȷ]

As for Pascal's wager, the obvious flaw behind is that it assumes believing in god constitutes "winning", which is a baseless assumption.

What if god wanted you to believe in the big bang and evolution, because that was the logical assumption to make?
What if you will go to hell for being a deluded idiot?

[Kurαȷ]

How do you know which god to believe in, hmm?

If it is Jehovah, how do you know you won't get fucked for believing in Jesus and the trinity?
If it is Allah how do you know you won't get fucked by being a filthy kafir infidel?
What if there is an entire Pantheon and you were believing in some Abrahamic nonsense?

[Jsmithy7427]

Apologies I must have misunderstood sections of your initial argument. Yes Pascals story is a perfect example of how somebody can lose everything as a result of their belief system. On the other pints you raised, I agree with them, they are large flaws which undermine the basis of the argument.

[MysterTanguish]

I always had that concept in my head, and I totally agree. Nearly all Religions no matter where on earth they emerged do believe in an afterlife with "Heaven" and "Hell", and because we only live once, I prefer to believe in God. I won't have anything to lose If "Nothing Happens" after I die since basically, a non-existent person can't feel regrets.
(and from the logic in computer science, a " True OR False " gives " True ")

[Twalli]

What if you believe in the wrong god?

[MysterTanguish]

@Twalli Yep, that's one limit to the concept. I'll just follow my heart , put my faith in a religion i feel to be true, depart this life as clean as a possible, and pray that my good actions turn in my favor if i happened to believe in the wrong god.

[Twalli]

I am a polytheist, but I feel that any abrahamic religion's god judges you more based on your actions than your beliefs.

[genericname85]

well you can believe and still end up in hell. therefore you don't win by merely believing.

if i go to hell for just not believing even though i'm a good person, then fuck that god. i don't want to support what he does by believing.

[genericname85]

if god exists and he wants me to believe, he can come and tell me. people and a book claiming he's real are not enough for me. if you want something from me, you ask me for it. that's how it works.

[AuroraRoseat]

You can believe in whatever you want. The issue is trying to get other people to believe as you do and using your personal beliefs as justification to subdue rights and freedoms of others.

[wagsingle]

If a god would send you to hell for not believing he isn't worthy of worship. So I'd be faking it, and if he's all knowing, he wold know that i despise him. So he would probably curse me anyway.

[goaded]

If you go to church for a couple of hours a week, you're losing about 2% or your waking lifetime.

Also, what if it's the wrong God? What if it's Zeus, and you get sent to Hades?

[sawno]

Depends, you'd have to guess the god correctly and if that religion is restrictive you have your freedom to loose.

[Savage_Wisdom]

While a fear of going to hell is a great reason to start looking into a religion, you should not believe simply on that fact alone.

[RasmusAiken]

Agree. But belief in God is more than hell-avoidance. It is a way to travel through life knowing you are loved in the greatest way possible.

[Anonymous]

What if there is a god, but not the Abrahamic one, so you really piss him off with your actions in this life?

[Optymistyk]

If you believe in god and he doesn't exist you loose a lot of time and money going to church and most importantly you limit yourself in life because you have to follow a shitty moral code instead of doing what you actually want

[Twalli]

Not if you wager on the wrong god. Plus in what capacity does a god exist in? If you hold this you should also support attempts to reduce global warming, because if it's not happening what do we lose?

[NerdInDenial]

Some people do error on the side of caution and believe.

[DWornock]

What nonsense. Which of the thousands of Gods do you choose? If your premise is correct and you choose the wrong God, and there is less than one chance in 1,000 of choosing the right God, you still go the Hell.

[MannySimms]

Depends. Do you PAY for your beliefs? That makes ALL the difference.

[DashboardLight]

So Pascal's Wager basically states that we already know what God wants from us? We'll never know what our boy God desires from us, if he even exists.

[Twalli]

Clearly God is a black woman. Someone who spent his life studying God said that God can only be a black woman if almost every view of god is partly right.

[madamina]

Eternal life