Does this make any sense?

[Anonymous]

[NamerOfStars]

Of course it makes sense- it's not TRUE (catechism 2319, among others), but there's a LOT of anti-Catholic bias out there, and the Protestants behind it generally don't even *try* to make it sound plausible (the other Orthodox Christians, having more legitimate grievances, generally DO put in the effort).

While it's true that they won't baptize the baby, that's because the baby is dead, and the Church won't baptize ANY dead person.

[Asker]

But... life begins at conception? Please explain.

[NamerOfStars]

Yes, and it ends at death. Once a person is dead, their soul has gone one; the body is just a hunk of meat at that point. There's nothing left to baptize.

[jshm2]

Whoever wrote that is not the brightest, let alone understanding Catholic theology.

A stillborn, miscarriage, premature... etc etc IS still baptised by a person who knows the right verses. This was usually the house elder or hospital chaplain.

There is no point in baptising the dead, as there is only body. The mind and soul have left the vessel. You can only bless and baptise a vessel with all three.

[Asker]

Who is this "person who knows the right verses"? A Catholic priest?

[purplepoppy]

Yes it makes sense. The purpose of those ceremonies is to save the soul of the person by first bringing them into the faith and then asking for God's forgiveness.
But if the baby is born dead then it's soul is already lost so you can't bring it into the Catholic faith

[loveslongnails]

If the baby is born "dead", it's not really known if the soul was attached to baby for a short time, or never attached. Point is, it's a rather hypocritical stance to say life begins at "x" time in the womb, but if you don't make it out of the womb alive, you're shit out of luck when it comes to being Catholic. Or am I alone in this view?

[Anonymous]

Did you do any research or just read a meme and believe that?

[loveslongnails]

He's correct unless you find an extremely sympathetic priest. They will not baptize a still born but there are other rituals and rites they claim they'll perform. Still not a baptism, but something else.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails evidence?

[loveslongnails]

Do your own homework, lazy. There are dozens of links to the position of the Catholic Church on still born baptism. This one's free.

Can a stillborn receive the sacrament of baptism?

By Father Kenneth Doyle • Catholic News Service • Posted July 11, 2012

Q. A friend of mine had a child who was stillborn. The priest on duty declined to baptize the baby because, he said, baptism is only for the living. But I have heard of many stillborn babies who were baptized. Can you explain why this has changed? (Annapolis, Md.)

A. It is true that the sacraments of the church are meant for the living. Their purpose is to put us in touch with the power of the risen Christ in our daily lives. Baptism signifies the entrance of a person into the faith community of Christians, with the intention of putting that faith into action. A priest would never think of trying to give the eucharistic host to someone who had died nor could the baptism of a stillborn indicate the start of a lifelong effort to live out the Gospel.

And yet the grieving parents of a stillborn are dealing with such sadness already that a priest may well find it difficult to deny their requests. Since one is permitted to baptize conditionally if there is any doubt as to whether the moment of death has occurred, pastoral instincts would lead a priest to baptize a newborn on the slightest chance that there might be some life remaining. There are other situations where the child has clearly died, and these call for special tenderness.

As I said, maybe you can find a sympathetic priest, but technically, it's forbidden by the Catholic Church.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails you call me lazy yet you’re the one fabricating stories about the church. So who’s worse really?

[loveslongnails]

Fabricating stories? What's wrong with you? Do your research. Look it up. It's right there.
You're not only anonymous, you're ignorant and in denial of the truth.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails like I said, give me solid evidence not an article from the internet

[loveslongnails]

EVERY link says the same thing. I'm not going to write to the Vatican on your behalf. Next time I run into a priest, I'll ask him. Like I said, you're lazy. Find something that supports YOUR claim that they WILL baptize a still born. Good luck.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails so basically you don’t have an answer so you’re gonna cry

[loveslongnails]

Are you really THAT dumb? Really?
So basically, you can't Google or do any of your own research either? You don't have a clue to what the answer is, do you?
Here dum dum. Try reading this, if you know how to read. Then try comprehending it.
www.vatican.va/.../..._un-baptised-infants_en.html

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails I am part of the Catholic Church. I think mh first hand knowledge is better than a Google search but if you’re stupid just say that

[loveslongnails]

SO WHAT? You're a Catholic? Whoppee. Then you should know first hand that this is true. Go ask your freaking priest, or maybe he's the exception who do it against church doctrine. You're knowledge, if any, is anecdotal.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails look, I get you’re probably a Protestant (which is wrong by the way), but I’m just telling you facts

[loveslongnails]

You're an idiot. You don't know "facts". The FACT IS, Catholics DO NOT BAPTIZE STILL BORN BABIES. I don't where you get the idea that they do, but they don't. AS I SAID, maybe there is a random priest who will do it, but it's outside the recognized doctrine. Deal with it, because you don't have a CLUE what you're talking about.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails like I said, you saw a meme and believed that.

[loveslongnails]

You've now moved fully into ignorant status. You've shown NO proof to suggest the contrary. Good luck finding any. Oh wait, you don't do that. You're too lazy. You just throw out anonymous bullshit.
Go get evidence that it IS done, girl. At least I gave you the words of a priest. All you have is blah, blah, nothing.

[Opinion Owner]

@loveslongnails because you have fabricated evidence and no knowledge of the Catholic Church. I’d take a long think if I were you

[BCRanger10]

No, but not for the reasons you might think.

First things first. The bit about funerals for stillborn, and by extension, miscarried or aborted children is not true. The Church DOES allow funeral Masses for them, and is so stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1261.

As for baptism? The Church can't baptize someone who has died.

[Guy13]

It sounds more like they don't want to be the Baby Aborted church servicer... I don't know...

[loveslongnails]

What can you say? Hypocrisy begins at home! :)

[truthisthree]

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