Do you believepraying to Saints its witch cartf?

[Alwayreckles93]

Okay a lot of catholics on here are going to get offended. But I feel its my job to serve the Lord and help people find the truth. My whole generation has been catholic my oldest sister and I had left catholism. I my self accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. Whe I was young I lived with one of my bff at that time who was a witch. Yes witch do used saints and also do the novena. If your catholic please becareful do some search.

https://youtu.be/ETPUjH7o2xE?si=AaxzSBqYK8nBGWAT

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yeah, it’s not “witch cartf” to pray to saints. It’s the christian adaptation for polytheism that was used to convert people back in the days of Ancient Rome.


Yes, there are christian witches, but they don’t typically do deity work with individual saints, they simply cast spells in the name of Jesus (which tbh really isn’t all that different from prayer ritual, it’s just demonized wrongly). But what you’re talking about isn’t demonic and it’s certainly not part of a Craft. Sounds more like protestant propaganda.

[BCRanger10]

No, I don't because it's not.

The Saints are simply those men and women who were like us, who had our weaknesses and fears, our hopes and dreams, but gave them over to Christ in such radical ways that the Church believes that their names are worthy of remembering. These are men and women who lived and worked, and in many cases suffered and died (sometimes very horrifically so) for Christ. They are those who, because of their love and devotion to Christ, are examples to us of service and conversion to Jesus.

That all said, if you can demonstrate clearly where the sorcery, witchcraft, black magic, or any of that kind of stuff is in Catholic commemoration of the Saints, I am perfectly willing to hear what you have to say.

[Exterminatore]

I’m glad you replayed to this question. I wanted to tell you something. After much prayer and consideration. I’m Catholic again. Not Roman Catholic though. My church is not under control of the Vatican. We do not like Pope Francis. We reject Mary as Coredemptrix with Christ. We reject the infallibility of the pope, We reject the church discipline measures of the Council of Trent, We reject Mary’s assumption, We also believe Grace is by faith, but however faith without works is dead, that works do not save. They are the byproduct and proof of salvation. We also allow birth control between husband and wife. We allow our priests and clergy to marry. We reject divorce. We do allow divorcées to receive communion. We reject women in the clergy and homosexual marriage.

So in short we are reformed Catholics. Everything else though is still the same. Same Nova Ordo mass. Same communion. Everything else the same as in Roman Catholicism.

[Exterminatore]

That aside, I agree with my church on all these matters and they are standing correctly in Biblical truth.

Your answer here is well stated and perfectly correct.

That said my church does believe one thing that I am still investigating but at this point think I disagree with. They accept the Deuterocannon, commonly called the Apocrypha, as inspired scripture and count it as sacred scripture. That means they do believe the dead can hear our prayers and they do believe In Purgatory. At this point I think there is no Purgatory due to this scripture:

“And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭27‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

That being the most accurate rendering of the scripture to my knowledge, but it often appears more like this in other versions of scripture:

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If man is to face judgment after death, where is there room for purgatory?

“I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Paul here is taking about himself. He was caught up into the 3rd heaven. Paul murdered many Christians before his conversion. If any man would need additional cleansing it would be a multi time murder right? Yet no Purgatory. He goes immediately to heaven.

I would have to say this contradicts the doctrine of Purgatory.

Also no where in scripture (not including the Duterocannon) is the concept the dead can hear prayers.

[BCRanger10]

@Exterminatore I'm glad to hear that, but that still doesn't sound like the Catholic Faith. The Assumption, for example, is a defined dogma of the Faith, which if rejected, places one outside the Church.

[Exterminatore]

Nowhere in scripture does it say Mary ascended into heaven alive.

Scripture says that Christ doing so was like the first fruits regarding the resurrection of the dead. Even Christ died first. Am I to believe Mary never died? This did happen with Enoch and with Elijah. All men I might add. Even Christ died. Why would Mary not have died? To teach that on the same level and authority as inspired scripture is wrong.

[BCRanger10]

@Exterminatore The first question I'd ask in response to that is one I'd asked on one of AR's questions from a few months back. That is where in the Bible does it say that every last matter of belief should be explicitly stated in the Bible?

[Exterminatore]

That’s a fair and legit question.

Scripture tells us what God wants us to know. It does not tell us everything about everything. For example, the Bible does not tell us that lying, which is sin actually has physical effects on the body. We know this to be true via science. Although scripture does not state that, it is none the less true.

Likewise with Mary’s assertion into to heaven as the Roman Catholic Church teaches, scripture does not state it happened. That does not leave out the possibility that it did happen. Same with Veronica wiping Jesus face on the way to be crucified. Scripture does not state it happened, however there is nothing to say it didn’t happen either.

In regards to these matters I think theology should be taught strictly according to scripture. It’s fine to say: “we think this or that may have happened also” if it violates no scripture, but these things should be made clear to be human teachings and not to be accepted in the same light as we except inspired and revealed scripture. They should not be taught on the same level of authority as known scripture.

The issue I have with this is that the Roman Catholic Church has elevated Mary very closely to the status of being worshiped or actually worshiping her.

There is no doubt Mary was a very special woman, after all she was the mother of our Lord. She was made to be pregnant by the power of the Holy Spirit while still a Virgin. However that’s the extent of it.

There are a number of other Roman Catholic Doctrines in connection with the assumption of Mary I see as problematic.

Christ and Christ alone saves. Mary is not Coredemptrix with Christ. Some Roman Catholic Theologians will explain this as Mary cooperating with Christs ability to save? If that is what is to be believed then why mention it. That would be true of all of us. In fact Pope Francis rejects that doctrine also.

Scripture states this:

[Exterminatore]

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Then there’s the concept taught in Roman Catholicism that Mary stayed a perpetual virgin. That comes very dangerously close to violating this scripture:

“The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise the wife also to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise the husband also does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

From this we would infer that sex within marriage is a command, and is to be exercised for the purpose of self control. If one eats, they are no longer hungry, at least for a while. If one has sex regularly, likewise it would be harder to tempt them towards sexual sin. The only way I can see not Mary and Joseph never having sex and it not being sin is if they both somehow were basically Asexual and both literally had no desires to do that ever, which I think is highly unlikely.

Then there’s the immaculate conception which Roman Catholics teach which state Mary was free from original sin from the moment of her conception. That is literally against scripture as Christ had not died yet and therefore there was no atoning sacrifice prior to his crucifixion, so therefore Mary could not have been sinless at that point, as there was no sacrifice for her sins until Christ’s death.

When we view all these things together I think it’s clear Roman Catholic has made essentially a God out of Mary. Very nearly a female Christ.

Who is the focus of Christianity? Jesus right? They why so much attention to Mary and so much focus on her in regards to things not mentioned in scripture or things that either

[Exterminatore]

Violate scripture?

Regarding the perpetual virginity of Mary, scripture records Jesus had brothers. Clearly these were born after Jesus as Mary could not have been a Virgin if she had them prior to her conception.

I want you to understand I am not trying to be harsh or judgmental here. I’m not attacking you. I’m simply having a dialogue with you and do not see how these things are even Biblical. They all pretty much violate scripture.

It would seem to me by these doctrines and the extreme amounts of reverence and adoration placed on Mary by the Roman Catholic Church she has been basically deified. If not made deity then elevated well beyond what scripture teaches and well beyond what reason would seem to dictate.

I look forward to your response to these things.

[Alwayreckles93]

Mary is a demon from the kingdom of darkenss. Only Jesus can save us.

[BCRanger10]

The Mother of Jesus is a demon?

[Alwayreckles93]

The real mother of Jesus was like any other human being God used her as an instrument. She is not important only Jesus. Now Mary the statue is a demon.

[BCRanger10]

Would any ordinary human being be addressed "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you"?

[BCRanger10]

Addressed by an angel, no less?

[Exterminatore]

Not witchcraft but definitely weird. We know we can pray to God out loud or silently and he hears us. Which would imply we can communicate with God telepathically. We can’t do this with other humans before their death, why is there reason to think we can after their death? Clearly God seems to be unique in this. Also why bother praying to the saints to pray for us when we can just pray to God by ourselves?


It’s all based on the Apocrypha or Duderocannon as the Roman Catholics call it.

[Alwayreckles93]

Why? Well satan tricks people its not the idols saints that comes to help out it opens doors to demonds. Yes I agree we pray to the Lord not some handmade idol staue. Did those idols ever creep you out?

[Exterminatore]

A bit. Mary particularly. I think Roman Catholics go to far with it.

[Alwayreckles93]

Well catholic Mary is a demon dress up as Mary. The real Mary the Lord used her as an instrument to give birth to Jesus. Mary can't do not about our salvation. Catholic chruch teachs fale doctrines.

[Exterminatore]

I would mostly agree with that. I don’t think Mary in Catholicism or anywhere is a demon.

However scripture does say worshiping idols is actually worshiping demons.

I do agree that Mary is overemphasized in Catholicism. She was to be sure a very special lady as she did give birth to God in the flesh. Truly I can think of no higher calling for any woman than to give birth to the messiah.

All that said I think Roman Catholics put too much emphasis on Mary.

It should also be noted there are more than one denomination of Catholics.

I, after much thought and deliberation have returned to Catholicism, however there is a major difference between us and Roman Catholics.

We do not believe in the immaculate conception, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the infallibility of the pope, the assumption of Mary, we see no Biblical command against birth control, our priests can marry, we reject a number of the findings of the Council of Trent particularly those regarding church discipline, we do not believe in transubstantiation, we are not under the authority of the pope either. My church broke away from Roman Catholicism in the 1800’s due to pretty much all the same reasons as Martin Luther. We are basically Catholic Protestants. We object to pretty much all the same things Protestants do with Roman Catholicism. We just kept our style of worship the same and the episcopal structure of the church the same. There are many of such independent Catholic church’s in Europe, who have walked away from the pope and unbiblical doctrines in the church. I wanted to make you aware not all Catholics are the same. You are speaking about Roman Catholics who venerate Mary. We do not do that. Our doctrines are different from Roman Catholicism. If you attended our church services, you probably wouldn’t notice a difference. You would notice a huge difference though in our statements of belief. Our church fathers recognized the Pope and Roman Catholicism was teaching unbiblical things.

[Exterminatore]

Our church fathers knew what scripture said and that what the Pope and Vatican were saying on a number of things were heretical. So we split. Around 2008, some of our churches wanted to allow gay marriage and for women to be priests, so we split from them too. However we saw no need to change our style of worship, which is good in my eyes. We prefer the solemnity of mass. We sing only hymns…we don’t have a rock band playing worship music in our services with lights and all the like you will find in Protestant churches. We use wine in communion, not grape juice and our communion is unleavened bread. Protestant churches will often use basically oyster crackers and grape juice for communion. This is unbiblical as the scriptures say bread and wine, not crackers and grape juice.

There are a number of things Protestant churches accuse Catholicism of that are in fact not true. Like the priest forgiving sins. No Catholic Church, including the Roman Catholic Church teaches that. Protestants object to confession. Scripture plainly states to confess your sins to one another here:

“Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬ ‭

Doing that with a priest is probably the best place to do that.

I just wanted to make you aware of these things as until about a month ago I was unaware there was more than one type of Catholic. The type of Catholic your thinking of are Roman Catholics and we have problems with them also.

[Alwayreckles93]

I didn't know there was more dominations about catholicism. I like learning about other religions and their beliefs. And it's good your congergation does not participate with the pope as heis satanic they all practiced masonry inside the bactican olace thing whatever. I honestly believe Jesus should always be the main center of attention and not Mary. A guy should always managed the church not a lady. Which is good I agree. Do woman cover thier hair when attending service or in prayer?

[Alwayreckles93]

I like to learn more.

[Alwayreckles93]

Is your church like a Orthodox Christian?

[Exterminatore]

Yes. Very similar in style of church service.

It’s like this. All the things you object to as a Protestant and that I also object to are not taught. We consider them to be unbiblical, sinful and heretical.

Otherwise everything is exactly the same.

The way Christian churches worship is pretty much exactly the same as it has been for 1700 years. After Christians were no longer persecuted by Jews and the Roman government they began to have church in a church building. The same way they worshiped, we worship. As it was in the beginning, except all our services are conducted in English, but we are considering adding a Latin service for those who care to come and can understand Latin.

[Exterminatore]

*sorry Catholic Church worship, not Christian church worship.

Catholic mass as it is called has had very little changes in 1700 years.

[Exterminatore]

As for the current pope, that man is in my opinion a blasphemer and yes, nearly satanic. My church has major issues with him.

Now he almost ready to let the gays marry and for women to be cleargy. Both are sinful. The Pope needs to find Jesus.

[Exterminatore]

I also agree, church is all about Jesus and should be the focus. Not Mary.

[Exterminatore]

Women don’t cover their hair when attending service at my church.

[Alwayreckles93]

At your church is modesty require? I believe woman should cover their hair while praying.

[Exterminatore]

Yes modesty is required.

[Anonymous]

I’m a Protestant. I don’t consider the practice of praying to saints to be witchcraft, just unnecessary. To me, I believe that I have direct access to God through Christ. If I can pray and speak directly to Jesus, I see no need to pray to Mary, Peter, Paul, or any of the other saints.

[Anonymous]

Sorry are you calling christian saints demons or witches? Asking others to pray for us is encouraged by Jesus Christ and those in heaven do pray for us.

Novenas are a practice started by Jesus's Appostles when the gathered in an upper room and devoted themselves to prayer which was the first Novena. Are you saying that the Appostles were devil worshippers? Are you saying that following the example of the disciples of Jesus is satanism?

I'm thinking you need to really go and read through bible and maybe you can embrace Christianity and Jesus Christ.

Being born again does not wipe away your sins if you have not confessed them & repented in your heart for them.

[Alwayreckles93]

But you are literally talking to a statue you catholics celebrate Halloween. You worthship idols. Im sorry you arethe one that needs togo back andread the bible.

[Opinion Owner]

It's not an idol. Its a focus and it helps us to remember the many Christian saints and martyrs of church.
I've read the bible, you merely parot what you've been told.

[Alwayreckles93]

Confessing to you catholics call pries which is a human men thats a sinner just like you your sin which only Jesus can forgive you and he died on the cross for you not that human. Saints are dead so in that case you are praying to the dead. You should only pray to Jesus not Mary or saint. You know a clay statue can't save you.

[Opinion Owner]

Yiu should ultimately pray to God, then Jesus, then Mary the mother of Jesus, then the saints and prophets. Saints are in heaven living an everlasting life.
A clay statue is just a statue, just like any crucifix it's a depiction and memory of them.

[Alwayreckles93]

Only Jesus can save you. Sorry mother can't do nothing about our salvation. Its biblical.

[Opinion Owner]

Yes I will pray for your soul and ask the virgin Mary and saints to intercede on your behalf.

[Alwayreckles93]

ROLEX? Why do you catholics always jump to that conclusion that pastors are wealthy. Not my church pastor he has a good paying career and he savers tge Lord. If pastors have a nice lifestyle it's because of their careers. Thank you for wanting to help. But I have the most powerful God Jesus Christ that he is the only one that ca save me. That Mary you pray to is a demon. Mary can't do nothing about our salvation. I wonder how much the priest pay you to say that pastors own Rolex and expensive cars. Pastors have their jobs aside from managing the church. Maybe take a look at the woman Teresa and Pope took all that money frntheir ow benefit.

[Opinion Owner]

The Catholic Church is a vast international organisation that helps its parishioners rather than demanding 10-20% tithes so a pastor can drive a roles, buy a $3000 suit and eat fine meals. They also help globally christians and non-Christians a like through various aid and charity agencies ie St John's ambulance, St Vincent de Paul's, trocaire and in the US you have Catholic Charities USA which is 167 local charities together that provides all sorts of community services such as disaster relief, education, counseling, housing etc
upload.wikimedia.org/.../...Employment_Center..jpg

https://youtu.be/35K6vQRt67g?si=i9YVU702JOBcQhYB

[Alwayreckles93]

Im sorry but most catholic people I encounter are all judgmental and attackedother because of their beliefs. My oldest sister she is a jehovah's witness we dont agree on each other doctrine but she never attacked people. Actully catholics live a lifestyle that God doesn't approve I hear catholics used profanity listening to worldly music. A cathlic woman got mad at me because she claims her homeis haunted I told her demons don't just go inside your houseunless you give. them authority and you open a door. I told herabout her statues shewent all Karen went all karen modeon me. Im sorry but I haveseen more positive things at the christian church then catholics.

[Opinion Owner]

Homes can definitely be haunted especially if there was a previous owner. Disturbed souls that haven't moved on yet. Demons are everywhere and in different forms. First place my husband and I lived in there had been a very brutal crime in it and there some stuff left in the upstairs attic such as Quiji board, candles and a blank book. Weird occurrences started occurring in the house such as things getting knocked over, jewelery going missing, noises at night, shadow men. I don't know if you know what shadow men are but they are pretty scary. And an old woman walking around the place, staring at us in bed, one time there was this old hag sitting on my chest and I couldn't move or breath. A previous tenant was into the occult summoning the dead etc. The old lady was supposed to be a woman who had lived there in the 60s, she hated catholics and was a very bad person in life. Our local priest came out, burnt all the occult stuff in the fire, read from the bible and blessed the house. No more problems after that. Our current home there are no problems

[Alwayreckles93]

Those were demons. When people die they eithr go to heaven or hell. Demons like to trick humans. What you needed to do was to look for a christian pastor oint oil your whe house play christian music and read palms 91. Yes palsm 91 is very powerful. I used to have sleep paralyzed before I was aborn again christian and I accept Jesus as my savior. From what it looks like your describe becore yoy and your husband move in someone practice sorory. I've seen people slide like snakes while doing deliverance in creepy voice say his my my. In the name of Jesus alleluia he is the only one woth the power. Seems like a witch live in your home hecore you bought that house.

[Alwayreckles93]

I must say you did a good job burning all that sorory trash that was left behind

[Opinion Owner]

You can't let that stuff cross the threshold of your home. These mediums and dead spirits as our priest told us can tell you information that only a dead relative would know or just general information about the past and they can tell you the future but no more than a year and they can never answer you any big questions. That's because you don't know who are what you are talking to or their purpose and anyone in heaven will only ever contact the living if by the will of God not out of conjuring.

[OlderAndWiser]

It does seem a bit bizarre to a non-Catholic Christian.

[Alwayreckles93]

Yes Sir it sure does. I was horn and raised catholic creepy stuff.

[Mansearching]

No. As a Christian and an Episcopalian every October (roughly) we take our pets to get blessed. Praying to St. Francis of Assisi the Patron Saint of Animals or Aminals (for cute and funny people)

[strateguy632]

but jesus himself said pray to the father "father in heaven hallowed etc."

[Mansearching]

@strateguy632 Yes he did. Thanks for the reminder. Ask St. Francis of Assisi to bless our animals.

[Anonymous]

Catholics worship and pray to idols.

[Alwayreckles93]

Yes they do.

[Jennz6]

Catholics pray to Saints

[strateguy632]

it is not witchcraft