The wage gap exists, but is it really "sexism"?

[Anonymous]

Let me just put this out first off, I do believe in the wage gap -- though only to a certain extent. I think that it isn't unreazonable to believe it exists in high-management jobs where salaries are NOT explicitly negotiated by their employees. Studies have shown that men are more likely to be assertive, they actively seek pay raises and promotions even when it is explicitly expressed that negotiation cannot be done (pushing boundaries, questioning rules) whereas women are simply more passive.

In such a case, it makes sense that it would create an imbalance in wages even for the same amount of work -- but it's not like bosses are running around hiring and paying men 25% more than their female employees. The question is why women tend to be more passive whereas men are more assertive -- is it biological? Or a result of sociocultural conditioning? I think it could be a mixture of both. What's your take?

[LuckyLittleLucy]

I agree, I think women need to be more assertive sometimes. However, I feel like the wage-gap argument has gone too far. Yes, we deserve equal pay, but if we want it, ask for it.
Also, I recently read an article (not on GAG) that was celebrating that- on average- there wasn't a wage gap in NYC anymore. It was further applauding the fact that, on average, the women were making $1.02 for every $1.00 men made.
So apparently wage gap isn't an issue when women are better paid, which is kinda silly.
Just ask for what you want to be paid. Keep it realistic and match your salary to people in the same position.

[Anonymous]

The truth is men make more than women. So if that is blatant sexism, why isn't it sexism that women under 30 make more than men under 30? It is only "sexist" when women seem to be in the minority. For instance education, the majority of college students are women, but that isn't sexist. There are countless scholarships and social programs to help women go to college and better themselves despite the fact that they already outnumber men in college, but somehow none of that is sexist.

Basically our society only sees sexism if women are at a disadvantage.

[BigPunny]

The wage gap the mainstream media parades around is largely false. They claim women make $.77 for every $1.00 a man makes. The differences in the actual wages is generally 1-3%. While it's still a 'gap', it's nowhere near the number that is paraded around.

The reason the 'numbers' are false is because they're using the average income for men and women without regard to the job being worked.

What they fail to separate, however, is that women generally choose careers that pay less - nursing (versus the mostly male version of Doctor), housekeeping, daycare, etc. These jobs just pay less and that's all there really is to that. Men, however, choose fields that generally pay more - IT, Doctors, Computer Sciences, Management, etc.

When you take Nurses, for example, men generally make more than women, but this can be attributed to the fact that there aren't nearly as many male nurses, which are in more demand. When supply of a certain type of worker is low, yet demand is still high, the salary increases. The same would apply to bilingual Nurses. A female Nurse that is bilingual will be paid more than a female Nurse that speaks only English. But when they use the $.77 number, they aren't bringing any of this into account.

Another thing they misrepresent is the fact that men generally work more hours than women and get overtime pay. This isn't factored in to the "official" wage gap number you always read about in the MSM, and from politicians' mouths.

Another slightly less influential factor is the fact that women are more prone to take leaves of absence when a child is born, thus lowering their yearly income. Women are also more likely to stop working altogether when given the opportunity.

Now, don't get me wrong, gender discrimination does exist, but it also exists both ways - against men and women. However, women are generally discriminated against more often than men, by far. That said, one must realize that it isn't as bad as is talked about in politics. This is what you'd call rhetoric and political posturing.

They'll find an issue that isn't as bad as it seems, scream about it, get everyone up in arms about it, then jump into office and say 'look what I did.' .

Anyway, that's how I see it.

[Anonymous]

I think that's definitely a part of it.

Another one, that's hard to measure, is that we -know- men tend to pursue industries and careers that pay more to a greater extent than women do. But most surveys like to pretend that all similar jobs within an industry should pay the same, so if the men are earning more, it's a wage gap.

If we know that men choose professions and industries based on income to a greater extent than women do, is it not likely that men choose specific employers and roles with a greater emphasis on income (versus other factors, i. e. getting along with coworkers, work life balance, enjoyment of work) than women do?

Finally, negotiation often comes down to an implicit threat to leave if salary isn't high enough. Do men actually threaten (or imply) leaving more than women? Maybe men actually DO leave more than women.

I have a small team who works for me. I hired all of them. Three men and two women right now, in a technical field. I started them all at exactly the same salary, give or take a fixed amount based on background. By far the highest paid now is one of the males - he's the team's star, and also the only one who has PUSHED for higher pay (and let us know he's had other job offers). For the record, the lowest paid is also a male, who has been a mediocre performer.

Just one observation.

[Junlian]

I can get down voted for this but at the end of day i know how hard i work to get to point a to point and still keeping it going. Got my mind on my career and school. I care less if my wife being paid 16 an hour doing the same thing im doing. My whole purpose was to make a decent living out of a career i love and handle responsibilities thats it. Anything after that dont matter. But i say to those who are concerned about wage gap, are content with what you got or would rather push for more? When companies down size guess who a$$ is grass. 8/10 its the ones getting paid more.

[Subject0]

There was an experiment in which a researcher applied for jobs using the same resume, except that one part of the applications were signed "John", and another one "Jennifer". Jennifer got less job offers and lower salaries. Women might be less persistent and confident, but there's still a definite gender bias.

gender.stanford.edu/.../why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer

[Laowai]

The "Wage Gap" has been repeatedly debunked by anyone conducting a serious survey. Instead, the differences between men and women's wages are entirely related to making different choices: Women tend to prefer regular hours, indoor jobs, less danger or physical risk, less overtime, etc.

These are all valid choices, and it is demeaning to say that women aren't competent to make their own life choices.

[Anonymous]

www.washingtonpost.com/.../

The fact is the whole women being paid less than men is done by looking at all career fields put together. The people who are saying it's 77-78 cents on the dollar for the same career are full on lying because there is no study that has proven that. It is only on all median incomes for all career fields put into one. If a guy and girl get hired for the exact same job at the exact same place they will get the exact same offer of pay. However, girls just accept whatever that offer is whereas more guys are bold and demand more. That's not sexism that's just women willingly choosing to not try to get paid more. Starting salaries are something that are negotiated and not set in stone based on gender.

[Northeast106]

Depends on how you manipulate the numbers. Asian Americans have the highest median income on average. Followed by white Americans. White women also earn way more on average than black or Hispanic men. I believe it's due to life choices more than anything.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Personal_income_in_the_United_States

[Northeast106]

So yeah, just because Asian Americans earn more on average, doesn't mean the system is now racist, and favors Asians over everyone else. Just means they got out there and earned it. 10 percent isn't even that much, people just find first world problems to cry about.

[Watermelonoma]

for me, there isn't enough proof to state that its due to sexism. Most of the wage gap in the USA is due to women's choices in the career paths they take, according to the U. S. Department of Labour and the AAUW (American Association of University Women). I elaborate more on this in a myTake i wrote on the matter

[LittleSally]

Yes, it's sexism.

There are actually a Q right on this site a few days ago depicting just such thing, and the girl didn't even complain - and worked twice as much as the newer male coworker - who, ironically, ended up stealing from the boss.
The boss deserved worse. xD

[GreatnessPersonified]

Most women generally take the paycut on their own. They can always quit and find a better job if they don't like it.

When you get paid more, there's more expected from you.
If you get paid $100,000, you are expected to be on call 24/7 365.

Taking a paycut generally allows more freedom.
Most women I know would like to raise a family, but that would be hard if you were an on call professional 24/7 with maternity leave and leaving work to tend to children.

[NedfromtheNed]

The goal of a business is to maximize profit. It doesn't matter if that money is coming from a muscular, bald, cutoff - wearing white guy or a half black half Asian women.

[Bandit74]

I think this video does a really good ob of explaining it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM

[aliencreature]

Warren Farrell statistically explains it and also provides a list of 25 different things women can do to earn more money than men:
youtube. com/watch? v=7VAZx07rOKU
skip to about 9 minutes in if you want to jump right to it

[Azara]

women get fired or punished for being 'assertive'. they also get past up for promoting during child bearing years.

[J-Thug]

The wage gap also rely's in the fact that men are usually in the higher positions. Higher position = higher pay.

[Anonymous]

It's just a bad statistic that democrats use for votes. That's why that statistic always comes around during election times since it's an easy way to trick women into voting for them. If take all variables into account, then guys get paid about 5percent more on average. and that extra 5percent is because guys ask for raises more often and frequently than women.

[John_Doesnt]

Men get paid more because our penis does 25% extra of the job. It just happens so fast that women can't see it..

[orphan]

Starting pay is based on experience. Future pay is based on performance.

If statistics show men earn more, then that means one thing. They perform better.

[hidudes]

in my opinion woman have to do job but more job in home and can get less because if she dont do inside job it is really hard for men to do outside work so woman have to do more work in home and men have to do more work in the office.

[Anonymous]

Face this undeniable fact: if there truly was a wage gap and that women were being paid less than men, then why aren't companies firing men and replacing them by woman in order to pay less?

The wage gap has been debunked multiple times.