Goody-Goodies Are The True Thieves of Virtue - A reflection on Shame Culture

[kingofkong]

The Festival of Dangerous Ideas was recently held at the Sydney Opera House, so I decided to go and listen to what I thought was one of the more “dangerous topics”. The talk was on Shame Culture and it was delivered by Jon Ronson, who has recently published his book “So You've Been Publicly Shamed”.

While we can agree the internet has brought about its fair share of benefits to society, nothing good ever comes without a price. Through public shaming, the internet has shown its propensity to be as devastating as it has been transformational. This shaming has extended to everyday individuals outside the traditional public spotlight. An example of this was when PR worker Justine Sacco posted a tweet before boarding a plane to Africa.

Three hours into her flight her post became the number one trending topic on Twitter and the entire online world go to witnessed her life dismantled through the twisted justice of Twitter. One tweeter summarised the vibe when commenting “Somebody HIV-positive should rape this bi**h and then we'll find out if her skin colour protects her from AIDS”.

I still don’t believe Justine’s tweet was ever meant to be taken as anything other than a joke, albeit a badly worded one. For Justine “living in America puts you in a bubble about the third world and [she] was trying to make fun of that bubble”. Justine was fired from her job, alienated by family members and most shamefully lost total control of her identity to the public moral consensus. She was left broken and traumatised, too scared to even leave her room. She could no longer sleep and as a thirty year old single woman left wholly humiliated by the international witch hunt against her, fearful that a Google search would forever tarnish her credibility.

Fake Justine Sacco Twitter accounts were created and would post racist, bigoted and ignorant remarks, even corporations tried capitalising on Justine’s misfortunes.

Psychologists Marte Otten and Kai Jonas studied the effects being humiliated has on the brain. The results showed that as an emotion it was more harmful than anger, and more powerful than happiness.

Jon Ronson went on to consider social psychologist Gustave Le Bon. Le Bon wrote the manifesto on the effects a crowd has on the individual. In “The Crowd” he writes “The crowd is barbarian… impulsive, irritable and irrational… becoming beings belonging to inferior forms of evolution... only impressed by excessive sentiments, never attempting to prove anything by reason”. In echoing Le Bon, Friedrich Nietzsche in “Beyond Good and Evil” asserts that “madness is something rare in individuals — but in groups, parties, peoples, and ages, it is the rule”.

Importantly, the Twitter crowd believed they were doing something good. They were fighting for Africans and AIDS victims, because as a deemed racist white woman from America she needed to be punished. What they didn’t seem to notice was Justine becoming the scapegoat on behalf of all white privileged people. She was not treated with any empathy or compassion. Justine was now an object no longer an end in herself, but a means to the crowds end.

The psychologist Carl Jung in identifying our “shadow self” taught us that the degree to which you condemn and find evil in others, you are, to that same degree, unconscious of the potentiality of that evil within yourself. Justine’s scenario can exist because there are people who are unconscious of their own dark side, and they project that darkness outward. By pointing to the darkness within Justine they were denying its existence within themselves and were therefore justified in their attacks. Carl Jung went on to state “people will do anything no matter how absurd to avoid facing their own soul”. The individual is then much more comfortable pointing to the darkness in others than they are to see it within themselves.

For Confucius such “goody-goodies are the thieves of virtue”.

The next time you condemn or see darkness within others, listen to what its trying to teach you about yourself. Until you make this darkness light it will direct your life and you will call it fate.

How do we then respond to a culture of shaming?

As Ronson puts it “when you see unfair or ambiguous shaming… speak up against it”. The cruelest thing to happen to Justine was that no one tried to offer her support against the drowning sounds of the crowd. Evil wins when good people stand by and do nothing. Be that person that offers compassion when others only see darkness. It’s a difficult thing to place yourself in the firing line, but it doesn’t go by unnoticed.

Ultimately it’s up to each individual to decide which side of the crowd they would rather be on.

[Anonymous]

tweets like this just remind me though how many people think such a mindset is ok and it shows she thought she would get away with such an offensive 'joke'
while her comment brought out the lunatics, her tweet did say something else, which is that certain people in society think they can say whatever no matter how offensive and at least people might think twice before they post such hurtful comments...
From seeing her tweet as a black person if the opportunity arose for me to work with her i wouldn't simply because i already know her mentality and it wouldn't be healthy to work with such potential ignorance, but i wouldn't go out of my way to damage her life, i take offense but i will not be judge and jury to her. just my two cents

[kingofkong]

Thank you for taking the time to respond

[NatashaJ]

I'm glad thou this mentality " I do what I want and I should have no harm come to me" is out of control since internet became so popular its time to put this assholes like Justine in her place. Maybe then they realize you can do what you want the internet but don't be upset when the fire starts to burn you.

[Bluemax]

"i already know her mentality"

You do not know her mentality. The people who worked with and were friends with Ms. Sacco and knew her well, including people of color, stood up for her. They know her mentality much better than you or I.

[PiuBelloAmante]

great take!

i read an article in the times about her, she is doing ok now...
i mean most people forgot who the hell she is, but one quick google search is all it takes...

Oh and she volunteered in Ethiopia i forget what for...
but its sad to see what one silly tweet can do...

[hellionthesage]

Highly accurate, unfortunatley. It reminds me of the biblical story of the righteous man and the sinner. The sinner was at the temple beating his chest and beggin god for forgivness for all that he had done. A "righteous" man watched and thanked god he was not as shameful and wretched as the sinner. The irony was that the righteous one was in fact the sinner because he acknowledge his wrong doings and wished to right them while the "righteous" man was oblivious to his own failings thus making him a worse sinner because he never realized he had to repent.
Never trust the righteous, for light blinds as surely as darkness.
We are all sinners the only difference between the self righteous and the sinners is that the sinners know it.
Sorry for getting biblical, kind of funny considering I'm agnostic.
Any way good take, though I don't know how many people will actually take it to heart.

[kingofkong]

I'm not religious either, but I see the correlation. Another friend commented that it was like when they said in the bible "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone". I'm sure it's in the teaching of all the other religions too.

I was asked to write something for a popular blog site, and I thought while I waited for them I'd see the reaction from this site. I think your right though and the message will go over a lot peoples head, but the feedback has been positive so far.

Thanks for reading it.

[hellionthesage]

Thanks for posting.

[Bluemax]

FASCINATING take! Well done.

I have much to say, but for the time being, kingofkong (love that name, btw), let me play devil's advocate.

Some people argue that by publically shaming people like Justine, you are probably going to make people think twice in the future about what they say and do. Therefore, even though you sacrifice Justine's peace of mind, well being, and so forth, it is worth the sacrifice because it may very well prevent people from being so thoughtless in the future if they know the penalty will be devastating. What do you say to that?

Are you familiar with Nice Guys of OKCupid? If you don't like using Justine as an example, you could just as easily replace it with any one of the Nice Guys of OKCupid.

In his book, Dataclysm, Christian Rudder talks about the Justine Sacco incident. I found it both fascinating and sad. Rudder knew Sacco personally and vouched that she was a very decent person.

[kingofkong]

The name just came to me. Haha.

I think it's a good point, but for me that just reinforced the fact the Twitter crowd was treating Justine as an object and not a human being, which I would never accept. We need more empathy and compassion in the world and less scapegoats. The poor woman was destroyed (for a badly worded joke to her 170 followers) in a way so cruel I could never deem it as a necessary evil. There is a huge difference between speaking up for attention and speaking up with intention.

I'll look them up, I haven't come across them as of yet. And I'm glad you pointed that out because I wanted the message to transcend beyond just Justine scenario and reflect on human nature as a whole.

Thank you for taking the time to read it!

[Bluemax]

You know what else is funny? (funny as in peculiar)

Cecil the lion. Before I continues, let me state for the record that I am utterly opposed to killing animals for trophies. I believe that dentist deserved to be caught and prosecuted under the law.

That being said, it is bizarre to me how one man kills a lion in Zimbabwe, and everyone flips their shit! Yet Robert Mugabe, Zimbabwe's president, has ruled (I hate to use the term "presided" when the man is anything but presidential) over decades of murder and rape in that same country and hardly anyone says a word.

I have more devil's advocacy and commentary, but it might have to wait.

[kingofkong]

Ronson spoke about the Cecil scenario on the day as well and made a similar point as you and I totally agree with it. There is a twisted logic when it comes to cultural shaming that seems to gets lost on the crowd once they are “whipped” into a frenzy. The bit that erks me is they think they are doing something good buy destroying peoples lives. What gives anyone the right to do that? It’s psychopathic and Le Bon and Nietzsche summed the psychology up perfectly.

I’ll be waiting for them when you’re ready. Haha.

[hellionthesage]

I imagine (your coment about cecil the lion) has to do with little to no exposure to the violence in africa whith a paradoxilly over exposure to the fact that people are dying every where. It creates a detachment for people since they know its constantly happening while simultaneously not having to confront it so they are able to remain aloof and apathetic to it.

[Bluemax]

Well, the people who believe in this mob mentality destruction, and you can see I here, believe that a greater good is being done in destroying people's lives for offensive remarks. You can see it with the comments here. They believe that it will make the world a better place when people stop saying what they deem offensive out of fear for their lives.

They neglect to remember, so it seems, that what is "offensive" is very subjective. Abolitionists were offensive to many people. Civil rights workers were offensive to people. Women's suffragettes were offensive. Jews were offensive to Nazis (who, during Krystalnacht, dealt with them in ways that are hauntingly similar to how Justine Sacco and Walter Palmer have been treated).

Tell me, have you looked up Nice Guys of OKcupid?

I still have more to say, but I'd like to hear your response.

[kingofkong]

I find it unsettling what people are willing to do for the greater good. I don’t remember the last movie I watched where all sorts of inhumane acts weren't justified with that reason. It’s programmed our cultural thinking. And I have a lot of problems when people claim it, because they have now determined themselves as the arbiters of the moral truth. As I see it there is no such thing as the greater good. It’s just a comfy notion like Santa is for children.

I loved the first episodes in this latest season of South Park on the policing of political correctness. They seemed to sum some of this point up.

I did have a look. It’s an interesting area, both the psychology of the ‘Nice Guy” and the girls that shame them for it. I’m still looking through it, but from what I have seen it fits in with the concept of shame culture

[Bluemax]

Do you know why criminals in the U. S. aren't punished by mass shame? When you think about it, it would be easy for jails to post pictures of every single inmate. BECAUSE IT WOULD PROBABLY NEVER PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER!

If mass shaming is such a good idea, why don't I try it in my class? Why shouldn't I post pics of every single student who has said or done something offensive? I'll tell you why. Because it wouldn't work. It would just make that student all the more sullen and defensive, which I think is the case in these mass internet shaming cases. As for their apologies, in the case of Justine Sacco I believe she apologized because she wanted her life back, not because she is a reformed racist (and I don't even think she *IS* racist, based on statements made about her by her coworkers... all of whom knew her infinitely better than any of us do). As for Walter Palmer, I don't think he had a real epiphany about hunting big game. I think he just wants the threats against his life...

[Bluemax]

... life to end (by the way, the people who work at his office... WHO NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN AFRICA... were threatened, too)

I was listening to Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew the other day, and I think Adam nailed it. He said to the effect that it really wasn't about Cecil the Lion. It was about people with too much time on their hands who wanted to feel important and righteous about something. By the way, I too care about Cecil the Lion. I don't think Cecil should have been shot. But I'm too busy educating kids (and THAT'S where I get my sense of purpose) to go vandalizing some dentist's office (to say nothing of the fact that I think that's going too far).

[Nice_Guy_Last]

I don't mind it: the internet is a platform for the exchange of ideas on a global scale. If you don't want your ideas to be criticized, rethink your ideas of what is acceptable and what is not, or don't post anything. This form of mob retaliation is perfectly fine to me. If stupid people want to air out their ignorance, as a result of their own conscious decisions (and getting on social media and posting under your own will is a conscious decision), then let the world make an example of why we won't tolerate ignorance. As a wise man once said, "Ignorance and inconsideration are the two great causes of the ruin of mankind."
In that spirit, I hope cases like these snip off the buds of the thorn bush of ignorance before they blossom into such things as Jim Crow, the Holocaust, or the Trail of Tears.

[kingofkong]

I should have used 2 examples instead of 1. Everyone is getting to hung up on Justine and the bigger picture as to why I wrote this is getting lost. Have a look into Adria Richards and Hank at PyCon. The mob in this instances behaves the exact same as the Twitter crowd did. We can't ever be to righteous, What right does the mob have to destroy someones life?

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Actually, the mob (the majority) has all of the rights over the individual (the minority). It's just how things work. Now, do we need to be careful in our decisions about others? Absolutely, but we must be willing to act. What Adria Richards pulled at PyCon was inexcusable, ruining other's lives because she made an assumption based on a conversation. However, it has little to no correlation to something like Justine's case. Justine's ignorance and racism cost her her job. It wasn't by any means an overreaction. Racism is not to be accepted, even in the slightest of forms. Vulgarity, however, isn't directly offensive. Directly offensive things attack people, like how racism does. Indirect offense is something that is a general offensiveness. Nobody should be hunted down for general offensiveness, but everyone who is directly offensive deserves to have their ignorance plastered for all the world to see and judge.

[kingofkong]

Lets agree to disagree. As I see it, and as Jon Ronson and Le Bon explained in their books, the two "crowds" behave in the exact same manner. We can rationalize the two events as separate as much as we like, but the psychology behind the two is in principle the same.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Bluemax]

And the next time you say something ignorant and offensive (and if you claim that you have never in your life said something ignorant and/or offensive, I'll know I am not talking to an honest man), you'll be perfectly find with someone plastering it all over the internet if they record it in a public place. And you'll be perfectly fine if you lose your job over it. And you'll be perfectly fine if your life and your family's life are threatened.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

@Bluemax You talk of offensive statements as though they are the base moral wrong, as though a simple mistake is equivalent to them. You aren't accidentally racist, you aren't accidentally sexist, you aren't accidentally ignorant. These come from active choice, not passive happenstance. So long as I choose to not be ignorant, then I can't be offensive. So long as I take into consideration the lives that others lead before I make a statement, then it is quite literally impossible to be ignorant. I would never pretend to be a perfect man, for I too have my own faults, but to say that being ignorant is an eventuality like any other common mistake is the same as saying, "Your bound to commit grand theft auto at some point in life." No, people aren't bound to being thieves as well as we are not bound to be ignorant.

[kingofkong]

Why can’t you be accidentally racists, sexist or ignorant? That implies one can’t make a mistake nor even a joke that gets taken the wrong way. By quoting a South Park reference to the wrong crowd I could be seen as all these, without necessarily being any of them. Does that person deserve to be treated like Justine as well?

You are ignorant. I am ignorant. Justine is ignorant. To find a person without ignorance is to find a hypocrite. Why can’t you accept that Justine made a mistake? And having no idea about the person she is, other than your prejudice, pretend as if you know for a fact she intended to be racist?

[Nice_Guy_Last]

@Bluemax I am indeed an ignorant person. There are so many things in my life that I am not privy to, and I do have reservations that would raise negative opinions of me. I, however, check myself before I say anything about race, politics, gender, sexuality, or any of the major topics that people are easily offended by. I don't talk about race other than to mention that it exists, and that some people are of a certain race and others are a part of a different one. To talk about race in any other manner is to be potentially racist. Basically, ignorance is a result of assumptions made without knowledge. To air anything assumptions out onto the internet is to reveal ignorance, and thus expose yourself to backlash.
The internet is already a festering pot of idiots who say terrible things to others because they can get away with it, especially with anonymous posts. Read a YouTube comment section and you can see this.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

To be this way is unacceptable. It is wrong to be offensive. In a setting where so many people say so many absolutely terrible and disgusting things, the reaction towards people who say things who have their identity tied to their account is a release of pent up frustration at ignorance.

[Bluemax]

"You talk of offensive statements as though they are the base moral wrong, as though a simple mistake is equivalent to them...[blah blah blah]"

If you're going to infer shit I never stated nor implied, you don't need me for this conversation. You can have it with your imaginary Bluemax instead of the real one. I never said or implied anything of the kind. If you want to have a real dialogue with me, stop inferring crap out of thin air.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

@Bluemax It wasn't inference. Your entire argument is founded on the idea that saying something ignorant is just a simple mistake, and that there shouldn't be this kind of retaliation for such a simple mistake. If it's not a simple mistake, but rather a serious mistake, then serious implications and consequences are in order, justifying, in part, the reaction on social media. My argument was that it is, in fact, not a simple mistake. Careless? Possibly, but even careless mistakes can cause great harm. I personally view it this way: if you wouldn't say it in front of a large crowd of random people, you probably shouldn't say it on the internet. What's even worse is that you can hit the backspace after proof reading the post.
Now, to be sure, the people who retaliate need to be held to the same principle.

[Bluemax]

"It wasn't inference. Your entire argument is founded...[blah blah blah}"

It most certainly is inference. That's NOT my argument, that's NOT what I said. Enjoy your conversation with imaginary Bluemax.

[DaddyRollingStone]

How do you respond to a culture of shaming? Simple: stop being afraid of what people say about you.

I present to you, George "Zimm Zamm" Zimmerman. He is a Mexican American man that has become a symbol of white supremacy and hate since his trial for the murder of Trayvon Martin. Here's how he responds to criticism now. Do you think he is afraid of being shamed anymore? images.hngn.com/.../george-zimmerman.jpg?w=650

[kingofkong]

I'm not familiar with his case no, so I can't really comment on him. There are two sides to the coin though. Developing thick skin is one, and justice of societies reaction is another. Although I think the fact he even made that comment shows how much it's really getting to him. Being constantly humiliated is more psychological damaging than almost every other emotions. When it's done by millions of people, it reflect more on the society than the individual as well. So I think it goes beyond just want the person being shamed should do and I'm interested in the social psychology of why society behaves in that way.

[DaddyRollingStone]

Basically, the official story is that a black dude attacked him, so George shot the black dude and killed him in self-defense. The media found out he was half white so they made it a huge deal and caused a lot of civil unrest

[aliencreature]

Its called the synopicon, its a social construct envisioned by thomas matheisen, using a prison as an allegory. basically, the panopticon is a giant circular prison with a guard tower so that the tower can see all and that will somehow be a form of social control or moral deterrent. think big brother, the CIA, NSA, etc, these are all panoptic organizations. But the synopticon just gets rid of the guard tower altogether so every prisoner can see into everyone elses cell and they just keep each other in line, rule each other en masse. and this is happening on facebook, twitter, the internet in general, it creates a sort of mob rule. Black mirror did an episode on the kind of twisted idea of social justice it creates, it was called white bear, and it was absolutely godawful. The thing is everything depicted in that show has come to pass in some form or another and its all gut wrenchingly horrible

[MrPresident]

You can't say offensive shit not expecting to be bombarded with shit too.
She said a joke, ok,,, but it was offensive, she is free to say that, but everybody has the right to respond to that joke too.
Is like punching a guy in a face not expecting that he will try to hit you harder...

[kingofkong]

No it's nothing like that at all. If you want to use that analogy it's more like she lightly grazed against someone in a crowd, and then the whole crowd akin to a gang turn on her hitting, kicking and abusing her until he ended up in the hospital with broken limbs and internal bleeding.

The reaction was totally disproportional to the comment,

[Bluemax]

That which is offensive is subjective. You could have said plenty of offensive things in certain people's opinions?

Pro life opinion? There are people who find that offensive
Pro choice opinion? There are people who find that offensive, too.

So are you OK with your life being destroyed because you might have said some offensive opinions? You are OK with your family being threatened because you might have said some offensive opinions

[Accipiter]

This is one of many reasons why I avoid social media. Everything you say and do becomes archived forever. If there's someone out there who wants to come after you for any reason at all, they'll look through everything you've ever posted in a public domain and use it against you.

[Aristotle]

Celebrities and major figureheads have had to watch what they say forever cause it can be interpreted wrong by the media and general population. Now with twitter and the likes, everyone has the priveledge of being scrutinized by millions of people. It's important for people to watch what they post, especially if you work in public relations, jesus christ what a dummy. Tragic tale but she should know better

[Explore2016]

Excellent take. Far too often there are politically correct witch hunts.

[COCOCHANEL]

if i had posted that nobody would give a fuck because i don't look white.
it must be hard being a target.

[COCOCHANEL]

i hate to see injustice so i do try to stand up for people when they are being wrongfully shamed or worse.

[PineappleBreath]

I think the 4chan crowd smelled the tears and came ready to pounce. Never show weakness on the Internet or engage with trolls or shit like this will happen to you

[Anonymous]

The only reason no good people stood up, is that, by-and-large, the really good people don't use or follow twitter, as I would have defended her had I known.

COWARDS - - HOPE YOU ROT IN HELL FOR RUINING HER LIFE

[Anonymous]

Excellent take - the best I've read so far! I don't usually see such intelligent, well written and thought provoking posts on GAG.

[kingofkong]

Thanks for taking the time to read

[tynamite]

Losing your job for making a racist joke is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with making jokes.

[ArchDruidMordred]

This same thing should happen to other races who decide to open their mouths about white people.

[Anonymous]

Here's a dangerous idea for you: the world would be better off if people who keep getting into other people's business were routinely executed.

[abundantlyrich]

What a stupid naive thing to joke on social media. She got what she asked for.

[kingofkong]

So I guess the point of this take went right over your head.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[abundantlyrich]

What idiot put their name and location there and let others judge her?

[abundantlyrich]

Are you willing to do that too?

[chuppachup]

Lol @ justine
Couldn't give a fuck about her ruined life.

[kingofkong]

That's kind of the point.

[chuppachup]

I realise my "darkness". That woman is still a dickhead. She should of kept that "joke" to herself or her friends if she really was joking.

[kingofkong]

Well she did. She only posted it to her 170 followers. One of her followers sent it to a reporter at Gawker who re-tweeted it to his 17000 followers and it exploded from there.

[nymous123]

nothing on the internet is personal to you and your friends, it is out there for everyone to see. Posting it on twitter is not keeping it to her self

[kingofkong]

@nymous123 I was merely pointed to the fact she did send it to her friends, and not the world at large. Although I agree with you nothing is private in the digital age.

[chuppachup]

Yeah, posting online isn't keeping it private. And evidently, those 127 followers aren't her friends.

[kingofkong]

You can only say 1 of 170 wasn't for certain. And even so it wouldn't have been the first time someone had been backstabbed by a so called friend.

[chuppachup]

When have followers on social media ever been mostly made up of friends? Last time I had a twitter about 2-3 followers were people I knew irl. And I had about the same amount as her.
Yeah, well if it was a friend who made her tweet go viral, that could of been avoided if she Justine didn't post it in the first place. That's the great thing about writing on pen and paper or speaking, it's a lot more private and un-hackable.

[kingofkong]

That's not the point. She shouldn't have posted it, I totally agree. It was a mistake on her part. That doesn't make what the crowd did right or fair. It was a totally disproportionate reaction. This is not just limited to twitter. Ronson has a whole book full of examples on all forms of media where they all behave in the same manner. This take is focused on the psychology and morality of such "crowds". This concept is bigger than not writting potentially offensive things on social media. It's about shame culture as a whole.

[Anonymous]

It's simple just don't say stupid shit :)

[hellionthesage]

But what constitutes stupid? If its take out of context anything can be seen as bad. This was not only very obviously a joke but one that was making fun of whites (specificly those in 1st world nations) yet she was attacked and shamed for insulting Africans, something she didn't do. Context can be twisted to distort anything.

[Opinion Owner]

@hellionthesage Yeah white people never know when something is ignorant it's called white privilege she got what she deserved.

[kingofkong]

It goes beyond just her comment. Cultural shaming includes so many different area and this is just an example of it (I could have used a body shaming scenario) or the Nice Guys of OKCupid (as Bluemax pointed out below).

[Bluemax]

No, it isn't that simple. ALL and I mean A-L-L human beings say "stupid shit" at one time or another, and that includes you, Anonymous.

One never knows in this day and age who is recording your conversations. It may very well be that some stupid shit that you say may one day end up on the internet and can damage your life. Don't give me this "I never say stupid and/or offensive things." Yes, you do, and so does everyone at one time or another. If it happened to you that some conversation of yours in public was recorded, do you feel that you deserve to be pilloried for it? Do you feel that your life deserves to be threatened (Justine's was)? Do you feel that your FAMILY'S life deserves to be threatened (Justine's was)?

[Opinion Owner]

@Bluemax If I say something racist then yeah but anything that I say stupid doesn't offend an entire nation of people. The baddest thing I said was forget the lays company because they sell air so shut up. She said something stupid and offensive.

[Bluemax]

All humans have, at one time or another (and that includes you), have said things that would offend a large number of people. Make a pro choice statement, and that can offend a large number of pro lifers. Make a pro life statement, and that can offend a large number of pro choicers. Furthermore, in an era when people can be recorded virtually at any time, I guarantee you if someone followed you for a week or a month, you would at some time say something that would offend a large number of people.

Hellionthesage asked an excellent question, which you didn't answer. What constitutes stupid? A lot of things that 2nd Amendment advocates say are considered "stupid" by gun control advocates, and vice versa. People who don't support affirmative action have been called racists. There were times and places when things like abolition of slavery, women's rights, and not being anti-Semitic were considered stupid.

[Opinion Owner]

@Bluemax ugh I don't care anymore she got what she deserved

[kingofkong]

Who are you to decide what she deserves? And whether someone should be psychologically abused or not?

[Opinion Owner]

someone who doesn't give a frank about a racist female

[kingofkong]

So you know her?

[Opinion Owner]

I know she's racist

[kingofkong]

You do realise there have been multiple people of all races and colors that have come to her defense. People that have met her, spent time with her who explicitly say she is not racists.

Yet you sitting behind your screen using only one sentence as your reference can say for certain she is racist. Do you not see how irrational you're being?

[Opinion Owner]

i don't care if I'm being irrational. I'll judge and feel as I see fit you can't change my mind. Furthermore she thought her white privilege was going to save her and I'm glad it didn't. I'm tired of white people getting away with being douche bags. The only thing white people are good at are stealing and lying. This can be shown by the enslavement of all people of color not just blacks as well by your constant use of cultural appropriation. As far as I see it she got what she deserved. Furthermore plenty of white people have friends of different colors back them up in not being racist but none of us ever know whats truly going on in someone's mind. I can say with the utmost certainty that the majority of white people are racist even if they haven't realized it yet. The fact that white privilege still exists proves that!

[kingofkong]

Be careful now, you are starting to sound like the racist here.