You Think We Don't Need Feminism Anymore? Have I Got the Rant For You...



That's cute.

If only that were true.

I don't know about YOU but maybe I need it because i would like to make as much money as a man does and not be denied a job simply for having a vagina. I know that I can work just as hard but apparently my p*ssy says otherwise.

Maybe we need it because the fact that people (not just men. Trust me) think its ok to harass and grope whatever woman they lay eyes on. My 1st year in highschool some random guy came up to me and grabbed my vagina and snickered to all of his friends about it. (This even happened in middle school). Apparently this has happened to many girls in my school and the staff did nothing. Nada. Actually they did do something. They basically said ok, thanks for telling us, I guess. Lmfao.

The fact that I can't show my shoulders or above my knees bc its distracting to the guys in my school yet they can wear shirts that say "f*ck b*tches"and "suck my d*ck" or ones that have naked women on them. Because thats school appropriate but my one hole in my one pant leg, according to them, makes every guy jizz himself.

The fact that in most of the world, women can't choose what to do with their body or their life. People seem to forget that they world isn't just America or Other 1st world countries. They think that if its "fine" here its "fine" everywhere. In many many parts of the world, Women can't even own sh*t or wear what they want. In order to have a house as a woman, you have to marry a man with money, honey. They tell you what to wear, when to speak, what to say, what to do, how to live and you have to do it, BY LAW. Young girls are often sex Slaves and dont have a right to an education. Having An education should be a basic human right not a privilege. But If you fight for something, in those places, you're killed. (Women actually have been killed multiple times because they want their rights. Its something you just can't live without. Its something you die for. Because If you dont have freedom then you were never living in the 1st place.) Girls that are younger than me. Girls that are preteens can't work, can't learn. They're forced into marriage at ages like 11, 12 and 13. To senior citizen men and yes its legal in many places and ALL of this still happens right now.

Did you know there are women all over the world that aren't allowed to touch or communicate with people while on their period? Periods in parts of Africa, South America, Asia, etc. Are seen as a curse. If you touch a woman on their period there, you have bad luck. What's worse is women there aren't even taught how to handle it. No pads, no tampons. Nothing but a piece cloth and the grace of god.

The fact that people think being the leader is being a man and that is a belief in many religions and a great portion of the world. I heard a woman say that a womans job is to be quiet and listen to their man. "Men are supposed to lead us. Women can't teach. They sit, shut up, and listen". Like i said before, "lol."

Yeah we have most of our rights right here. Right now. But there are women that STILL have to work for that sh*t. Why the f*ck do we still have to fight and die for that sh*t? Because people after years and years believe its a joke. Try looking at it from someone elses perspective instead of watching from up your a$$.

To the women that stand up for themselves and try to make it right, I respect you immensely. It was only 1998 that the 72 year fight for rights has ended. No one can do it alone but as a whole, look how far its come.

So, "Do women still need feminism?"

Yes! The title "woman" doesn't belong to just you and me. There are other women out there. Shocker. I know, crazy, right? And they dont have rights. They have nothing. I live in America and still feel that there is unfinished business. I don't know about you, but I have enough respect for myself to actually stand up for myself and other women. I'm proud to say I'm a feminist. I fight for my rights. Why is that a horrible thing? Anyways, Thats why we still need feminism. It's not about being against men or being superior or not shaving your arm pits or whatever stupid sh*t. Its about sh*t being fucked up and fixing the sh*t.


Most Helpful Guy

  • Sure it's still needed but there needs to be some kind balance with help for men too.

    Take note of these facts: In developed countries like the U. S and Australia men outnumber the amount of women on welfare by approximately 1/3

    That means more women than men who want a job have a job.
    A large number of women who don't work are financially supported by men.
    Very few men are financially supported by a woman.

    There are more female university students. That means there will be even more women in jobs in the future.

    Due in part to bias in the judicial system, men who are not allowed to see their children outnumber women by 10 to 1.

    There are more male victims of violence than women.
    Granted it's mostly male on male violence but in instances where it is female on male, a very small % of female offenders are ever actually charged with anything due to societal bias.

    Men work longer hours than women on average and take less time off.

    Men with drug, alcohol or gambling problems outnumber women.

    The kind of social support offered to women who fall on hard times doesn't exist for men.

    Women are given priority for public housing forcing more men into homelessness.

    The male suicide rate is higher than the female.

    Hospital waiting times are higher for men.


Most Helpful Girl

  • I hope you continue to do your homework and develop your ideas, and thoughts of solutions to some of these problems. Your naysayers are generally going to repeat several unfounded, often easily disprovable "Breitbart style" talking points. Don't argue with these people. They are idiots and they are going extinct. They will die out eventually. And they don't get how their conclusions are provably false and will not be convinced with the use of facts to counter them. Just let them flame out on their own.

    Use your own good mind to analyze what you observe around you and keep doing your research.

    • 100% of things said to disprove feminist are backed up.
      Feminism is the group that uses silencing, bullying, and bullshit facts. It's also the group that refuses facts and compartmentalizes its views. So it is best she does not argue these people because she will be the one who is wrong and will just end up looking like an asshat and get emotionally butthurt and block them after a tangent and personal attack. (Which is the typical feminist response)

      Saying "use your own good mind" to a feminist is like telling a snake how to hand glide.

    • Contrary to what you believe, these people are not going extinct. It's awesome that I'm even meeting more and more women who absolutely despise feminism, it proves that not every woman is naive and brainwashed.

      I'm still waiting to meet a feminist who is for "equality" that actually realizes that inequality isn't exclusive to women. That isn't a "Breitbart style" talking point, it's a huge issue with feminism and its supporters. I have yet to meet a feminist who can list just ONE male related issue of society, but yet she has an entire list memorized by how society inconveniences her. How is that equality? XOXOME16 certainly needs to do more research, that's true, because her understanding of feminism and how it should only fix female issues is partly the reason why so many people hate feminism now. She needs to change her stance and viewpoints because she's the type of woman who has helped give feminism the bad reputation it has now.

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What Guys Said 89

  • "You Think We Don't Need Feminism Anymore? Have I Got the Rant For You..."

    " Feminism... Rant For You..."


    No thank you.

  • Sorry but I politely disagree, you see feminism that exists today is no longer the same feminism from the 20th century. The feminism today is notoriously known as third wave feminism. It's known for promoting misandry and division amongst the people. If you remember correctly, between 2000-2009, men and women would get along just fine but every since third wave feminism started trending in 2010, men and women have getting divided.

    This is why groups like the MRA and MGTOW are rising. There was a poll not that long ago that proved most people don't consider themselves feminists. Now that this decade is nearing the end, feminism is slowly starting to decline. Most men and women are starting to realize that modern feminism is not right.

    What people need is Egalitarianism and no Feminism is not Egalitarianism otherwise it wouldn't call itself feminism and it wouldn't be neglecting men.

    • Feminism isn't about the neglection of men. People are so scared of being left out of things that they get so offended. Gay rights: gay people Any racial protest: focuses on ethnic people Child rights: children Student rights: students. SO tell me why this ONE protest csn focus on women without men and women sh*tting themselves? EVERY PROTEST HAS A FOCUS SO WHY CAN'T IS BE ONE. id like to know

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    • And this is why labels and names suck. Two people who probably want the same thing arguing until they are blue in the face, hating each other, while oppressive forces keep doing their thing. The only way there should be debating, arguing, etc, about feminism etc, would involve arguments about why different people do or do not deserve rights, and I think those who believe everyone deserves rights would win. Anything else is just unhealthy bickering. Do you believe everyone deserves rights or not? If yes, then quit bashing each other.

    • because women don't really have mens backs and deep down men know it. it depends on who you are if women respect you or not and what you have as a man wether they treat you as a human being. Meanwhile men has made it apart of are code to respect a women regardless of who they are and we judge those men who do not. women judge men and don't care how they treat them long as they don't get caught.

  • Feminists are pathological liars, histrionics and manipulators the likes of Jim Jones. To wit:

    #1: Everything upon the earth was built by men. There’s not a single, substantial structure on the earth primarily built by women.

    #2: It was men that were trafficked, exploited, used, manipulated, brainwashed and disposed of in all the wars for the advancement of women and the state.

    #3: Men have always been primarily responsible for working the most dirty, most dangerous, most life shortening, most back breaking jobs, for the advancement of women and the state.

    #4: Women demand quotas only in the most prestigious, most powerful, most lucrative positions and didn’t demand their place in employment until after men made work relatively safe, broken nail free and mussed hair proof.

    #5: Men pay the majority of taxes, but the vast majority of spending on healthcare, welfare and education is spent at the state and federal level on women.

    #6: The vast majority of alimony, asset division and child support flows from men to women.

    #7: Trillions in wealth and power have been forcefully transferred, via state power, from men to women and the state through Affirmative Action, Title IX, alimony, asset division and child support (alimony++).

    #8: Affirmative Consent - a feminist creation like no-fault divorce (legislation written by NAWL), seeks to remove men’s rights to presumption of innocence and due process at the behest of a woman scorned, on her word alone.

    #9: Feminists, while standing tall against the idea of men defining femininity, insist on defining and redefining masculinity.

    #10: Feminists claim sole ownership of victimhood and ignore the many benefits patriarchy has bestowed upon women whilst also ignoring the billions of male victims of gynocentrism.

    Let's you and me debate. I enjoy debating the sociopaths.

    • Im a sociopath how? I agree men had it rough as well. I never said otherwise. I believe in equal rights. Which means rights for everyone, including men. Just bc i say shit about feminism doesn't mean im against men. You can name call and try to do your part in saving the world from the "horrors" you call feminism, but im not that type of feminist. So get off your high horse because tbh idc what you think at all.

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    • @NatashaBeauty Ik there's pros and cons which is what i said to a million fricking people. I never said woman had it harder. I simply stated problems that happen to women being that its a feminist rant. Feminist meaning women based. I mean duh. It was obviously a rant and you knew that from the title (assuming you can read) so if you didn't want to see complaining, dont click on it. Shouldn't that be obvious or are you just that dumb? You want me to stop complaining yet you do the same on my post? Replying to many people about a post you dislike soooo much yet you continue to give it more attention. Makes no sense, right? Bye.

    • If you aren't saying that women have it harder why not talk about the shit men go through too? If you're trying to make me seem dumb, you are only making yourself seem dumb. End of conversation. Bye! Have a nice day!

  • Is feminism about equality or is it about fixing female issues only? If you can't even list just one male related issue of society (there's quite a few) then you're not interested in equality. You're interested in superiority. When feminism starts acknowledging that men also have their fair share of issues and actually starts embracing its idea of true equality, is when more people (especially men) won't consider feminism a bunch of bullshit that only ever chooses to focus on women while disregarding men and our struggles.

    Every feminist who has convinced herself that she is a victim seems to think she has it so much worse than every man in the world. If life as a girl sucked so much, then why are more men killing themselves? Any woman who could choose to have male privilege over her female privilege would quickly find out how much of a mistake that is, because she'd realize men don't actually have as much privilege as women like to pretend they do. This was an experiment conducted by a feminist lesbian, Norah Vincent, who would disprove the entire notion that being a male is so much better and easier than being a female.

    Do we need feminism? NO. We need egalitarianism. Get over yourself.


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    • For your brand of feminism to only focus on women means you want to solve all issues for women and continue to ignore issues of men. This would mean that women live easy lives while men then become the oppressed. This means that you want women to be the superior gender. Which means you're yet another classic example of a feminist who is also a misandrist because you don't fight for true equality, you only fight for women.

      The funny part is that you don't get why people say feminism isn't needed. People like yourself are the reason why feminism has the bad reputation it does now and is losing more supporters than gaining any. You need men to be on your side, not against you. And if you ignore them, they're going to dislike you for it.

    • So say a dog bites someone, right? Does that make all dogs bad? No. So just because a woman says something is misogynistic doesn't mean everyone thinks that. Feminism is about women. Women can't speak for men so why would it be about men? Idc if people hate me for my beliefs. I dont live so people could like me. So people can make fun of me, threaten me or whatever. I dont care.

  • I dont even have to read this article to shut it down quick.

    1) Can you vote? yep

    2 ) Can you buy sexual products without fear of being looked at differently? Yep

    3) In a rape case is the woman automatically looked at as being honest and a victim even before the trial happens. Yep

    4) Are rape accusations from women automatically taken as fact? Yep

    5) Do women get bias ruilings on child custody just for being women? Yep.

    6) In society if a woman hits a man the majority will stand back and watch, if the roles are reversed and a man hits a woman people will race across town to come to her aid.

    7) until this year, women were not required to register to be drafted.

    8) in a divorce the female gets half of whatever the man has...

    This modern day feminist movement is not feminism, it is a hypocrisy movement filled with vocal members who preach hate toward men and get offended IMMEDIATELY by opposite views.
    I could go on but honestly what can be said at this point that alreafy hasn't been said by men AND women all over the country...
    When 80% of women refuse to consider theirselves feminsts, you know something is wrong with it.

    • Yawn.
      We are going to pretend that we are building a house here, and once we are done we will see if either the male or female house is better according to your logic.

      1. Yes we can vote, as can you. Look at that, we both have a door.

      2. Sexual products? Do you mean tampons and pads? Those are not used for sexual purposes so try rewording. If you mean tampons and pads I should have you know those are taxed as luxuries while male razors have no tax. Weird isn't it because girls will be kicked out of school if blood is running down their leg but a guy wouldn't be if he had a little mustache. So now you have some flooring or something I guess, girls are stuck with concrete. If you mean birth control, most insurance companies don't cover it. Bad start so far buddy.

      3. Nope, wrong buddy. Have you never heard the "She was asking for it"? Or "She shouldn't of been..." which the prosecution will do to declare the rapist not guilty? Guys aren't believed at all or worse so we both don't...

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    • @bat0209 You just can't live without being and offended victim.
      "If you mean tampons and pads I should have you know those are taxed as luxuries while male razors have no tax". Female razors have no tax either, if this is your complaint, I'd hate to see if you had any real problems. Likewise with the rest of your teeeny tiny contrived grievances. Just keep whining and complaining. It's all your good for due to your "gender:.

      girls will be kicked out of school if blood is running down their leg but a guy wouldn't be if he had a little mustache. - Well, yeah because it's a major health issue. A boy with blood running down hiks leg would be sent home (and would want to go home) too. Geez, get a shrink for Christs sake

    • women VERY MUCH ARE FEMINIST. They just know men won't commit to feminist so pretend they aren't until they have you by the leash.

  • There is a reason that this thing has only one like/thumbs up.. Maybe you should look up women against feminism. In the US, its not necessary. Not when the over whelming majority of work place fatalities is men. When the over whelming number of suicides is men, when the over whelming number of homeless is men. When in the vast majority of custody cases men get no time with the kids. and your wage gap idiocy is a fallacy. The people that came up with the study have actually came out and asked the idiots that use it to stop misrepresenting it.

    Place my faith in a real feminist Christina Hoff Sommers when it comes to the wage gap. She obviously has done her research, and how dare you take the image of Rosie the riveter, someone that stood up and worked her tail off a representation of women everywhere working hard when their men were over seas dying for them. DYING. that doesn't matter to feminists though because to men we are disposable

    I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them. Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

    The nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. Linda Gordon

    I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig. Andrea Dworkin

    Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage. Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

    The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race. Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

    And you wonder why web sites like every day feminism are failing, why the number of women that identify as feminists are dwindling. They are tired of the lies, the man hating, the straight up pure distilled evil that has been coming out of the movement. Not to mention the women's marches, and the joke that was a day without women. Can you imagine what it would be like if men unanimously decided to take a day off from our jobs and society? I am not MGTOW, i am married, but Feminism is exactly why MGTOW exists.

    • that doesn't matter to feminists though because to *THEM* (not men) we are disposable

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    • LOL i also said nothing about that stuff. I specifically addressed the Fallacy of the wage gap that you seem to like and Rosie the Riveter. If you understood the origin of the image, you might understand why the women of that time would be pissed off that feminists hijacked it as a feminist image and icon. here is some history for you

      in any case. I am the enemy of feminism. and i am married to a woman against feminism. I am an Egalitarian, Equal rights for all.

    • Ha another interesting thing here. I can't see the other two replies to my comment either lol. how funny. gotta love how people are so block happy here.

  • Let's count the falsehoods here.
    "I don't know about YOU but maybe I need it because i would like to make as much money as a man does and not be denied a job simply for having a vagina. I know that I can work just as hard but apparently my p*ssy says otherwise."

    And let's not forget that colleges are now female dominated--women far earning more degrees.

    I notice when women rant about the mythical pay gap, they don't include actual sources showing that women are earning less per hour than men in the same position with the same experience/resume. Because there isn't. Women on average earn less because women are on average more likely to work part time and staying home with her kids, more likely to pick job paths that pay less. It's like how female doctors are more likely to retire early or work part time compared to male doctors.

    • Nice Breitbart link.

      "I notice" that when people rant about women, they post known hate groups as references and then get mad when people label them and what they have to say as untrustworthy.

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    • RationalMale, it amazes me that you even try to reason with a cute man aka feminist.
      When someone is dumb enough to talk about pay gaps and all these dumb castrated feminist fairy tales without being sarcastic, then trying to dodge your facts and tell that you're wrong is the easiest thing in the world. You can't fix stupid.

    • @TheFlak38 I blocked Marinite already, that's why she didn't reply.

      The links aren't for the original poster, or for Marinite. The links are for the people browsing the question who are open minded enough that facts would have an impact.

  • Feminism is no longer feminism. Why?
    1) Feminists say one thing and do another. We're always told that "feminists believe in equality". Well then, I don't see them addressing male issues at all. How is that equality?
    2) Ask a feminist to debate feminism and you will be told to go fuck yourself.
    3) Feminists deny that women objectify men too. Feminists will turn cartwheels trying to explain why it’s wrong for grown men to admire the fit, tight bodies of young women, but perfectly okay for grown women to desire younger women sexually.
    4) You are a victim-blaming rape apologist and feminists will let you know. Everything from the ‘teach men not to rape” campaigns to “don’t be that guy” to “listen and believe” assumes that women are not and cannot be responsible for their own actions, must not be asked to offer evidence for their claims and ultimately, men are responsible for the safety of women.
    I'm all for women's rights but don't use the word "equality" if you don't know what it means. Last but not the least, don't become "The Melancholic Sufferer".
    The Melancholic Sufferer- While initially you may feel sorry for them, such people play the victim card so often that eventually, you begin to wonder whether they are bringing it all on themselves or simply making things seem necessarily bleak. Victims are unable to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in their lives.
    Note that this doesn't apply to all feminists. It only applies to third wave feminists.

    • The last statement is literally "please don't let someone educated on the matter who won't say "fuck yourself" debate me"
      Smart, but really?
      1. I'm sorry but women are trying to dismantle gender stereotypes overall. Look out how good Sweden is doing (sorry Sweden is awesome) and in a survey of feminists/ non-feminists about a boy being raped, the feminists showed TRIPLE the support for the victim

      3. I'm really sorry but I don't have much input there. However in our mainly heterosexual targeted country, women are far more sexualized

      4. Actually women are trying to make men accountable instead of the stereotype that they are hypnotized because that girls skirt was just too short. They are trying to teach men to be accountable instead of "I just couldn't control my desires since she was showing her shoulder

      BY THE WAY that melancholic sufferer point is excellent and I'm so happy you mentioned that, have a good night

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    • Thats why men should. Tbh honest with you feminist aren't going to talk about men because men aren't the focus of the movement

    • Well, women are involved in this scenario right? This is exactly the problem. Feminists only fight for the rights which they don't have. They don't care about the advantages that they have over men because who doesn't like having privileges? Same with divorce and custody. Feminists want to have it both ways. They fight for the rights which they don't have and retain their privileges. How is that equality? That goes against the whole idea of equality. After that, they bash MRA's and other men's rights activists.

  • Lmao loved how the first thing you talked about was the wage gap myth. Listen sweetie, there's no wage gap, ok?

    Jesus Christ, 4 sentences in and I already got cancer.

    • No, sir. You do not get cancer. You give cancer. There's a reason the wage gap discussion won't be going away anytime soon.

      But--I'm sure the fact that men hold an overwhelming majority of better-paying leadership positions has nothing to do with it. You'd almost think the workforce didn't recover from the centuries of sexism that built this hierarchy overnight, but no. That can't be true. That would be too obvious and rational. Let's go find a Youtube video instead.

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      This study, most women never negotiate their starting salary, which once you start behind the eightball, you always will be behind it.

    • @Marinite That is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard. Why? Why do men have more leadership roles? Because it takes years of insanely hard work and long hours all of which women do not wish to put in because it means they will not get to spend time with their families. That is why women who are single make more money then men who are the same age and single. Once they have a family women's priorities shift from trying to acquire resources to focusing on the family while mens priorities shift to trying to produce as many resources as possible (i. e. money) in order to ensure the well being of his family. Also I find it hilariously funny that you point that out as some kind of sexism but neglect to mention who men also make up 80% of the homeless, and make up almost the entirety of every unpleasant, physically grueling and/or dangerous job out there. Why are you not bitching about there not being enough women who work manual labor jobs? Well we both know why don't we?

  • The wage gap isn't due to sexism, it is due to the women's choices.

    • John vs Jennifer study

      I think Yale University might have more credentials than freakonomics.

    • @bat0209 but that was an interview with a Harvard professor who studies this topic.

  • "maybe I need it because i would like to make as much money as a man does and not be denied a job simply for having a vagina."

    Then get a real job, like a man does, and don't expect your degree in Commiecrat Propaganda studies is like his degree in Engineering.

    • I already have a degree in engineering believe it or not. (From this program for advanced students who take college classes based on engineering during high school, look it up if you want). So keep talking about "real jobs" then when im actually working towards one, tell me why im still the lesser. Bye.

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    • You are not there yet, so do shut up.

    • Well then give us an update after you find your first job...

  • Um, do you have any idea how much more powerful womens' privileges are compared to men?

    • Yes im well aware. Each side has their advantages. Im for mens rights as well. But that isn't what this rant was about now was it?

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    • Did i say just here? No i did not.

    • Other areas, yes. I agree with you.

  • I try to be progressive as fuck but this my take gave me a headache. Girls have it so good now and some of y'all aren't even satisfied. smh.

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    • @lumos I doubt it that they don't get what you are saying in some regard. You'd be surprised at how much words have an effect on people... especially when they are meant well.

    • @lumos Though I will admit online interaction lacks face to face as it's only letters... pretty easy to dissociate or misinterpret others.
      Subtle manipulation has a much longer lasting effect, even if someone swears you out there will be some inclination to feel something about their conversation with you. Most of the time they will feel repulsed by their actions subconsciously and that will affect them later. The difficulty though is dealing with that anger of others... and making sure it doesn't transfer to you.

  • Hahah I love that you start your reasoning with two fabricated issues which only a mindless sheep would believe.
    "I need it because I would like to make as much money as a man does and not be denied a job simply for having a vagina."

    WAGE GAP isn't real!!! ANY "gap" there may be is there because of female choices NOT sexism.
    WAGE GAP does happen in benefit of women where women get bonuses for getting into fields women don't often care to be in. LIKE STEM.
    YOU are MORE likely to get a job based only on having a vagina than a man having skills. Affirmative action and quotas get under qualified females jobs over more qualified males everywhere.

    Women can openly grope (and rape) males against their will and the male is considered "lucky".

    The school dress code bullshit isn't about shoulders, it's about following dignity rules and not exposing your tits, ass, and vagina! Women's clothing may have more rules because women's clothes have more options but males have rules which prevent them from exposing themselves as well, they just don't feel entitled to break them. And in regards to distraction... if a male wore spandex and you could see his dick you would have a hard time not being distracted.

    Also, women in most of the world can choose what they do with their body... don't use third world women as your scapegoat. We all know those places are fucked up. Feminism does NOTHING to help them.

    A white female in western society is part of the most privileged group of humans to ever exist.

    Here is a small list of privileges you have...

    • Pink downvote... which of the listed privileges don't you have?

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    • You obviously missed the widely spread video and shaming campaign where the girl walks the street and claims she was harassed because men said hello to her.

      Yo also obviously missed the massive feminist push against "manspreading" which lead to LAWS being passed to stop men from sitting with their legs open on busses.

      Wage gap is NOT real... Not only is it against the law, EVERY time you account for women's choices, time off, leave, job role, job duty, and other factors the "gap" goes to zero.
      Women coming out of school actually get paid MORE than men their age because of nonsense quotas and bonuses to entice women into certain fields.
      There has not been a single actual case where a female has been paid less than a man in western society for the exact same job for decades.

      So if you aren't focusing on 1st world feminism (western society) what are you doing about eastern women's issues (aside from posting blog posts claiming victimhood?)
      You heading down there anytime soon?

    • A documentary by a former feminist that EVERY female should watch...

  • 4|11
    • Oh so funny with you and your memes. Try pulling up some points instead

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    • Then stop replying to my stuff. Simple. And just because i disagree, doesn't mean i dont listen.

    • I do reply as much as I want though. Tough life.

      And you don't listen to people since your arguments have no arguments. It's merely "this is like that, because it is like that". Very impressive.

  • boring...

  • The problem with feminism is that it isn't simply about liberty, it's about bringing in more legislation to put the government's gun to people's heads for more pointless freedom.

    You have the right to equity, not equality. Feminists don't want equal opportunity, they want equal results. That's the problem. The free market will decide how much women are worth and what each woman's place is, be that a CEO or a housewife.

    Feminism is a societal cancer. It brings nothing but instability. It is a surefire way to cultural suicide.

  • Yes women have some disadvantages, everyone does. But whining about it and acting like an 8 year old on the internet is just immature and does not help anyone

  • Feminism is cancer.

    • Something that can make a person stonger or weaker

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    • Only Physically

    • What doesn't kill you
      makes you wish you were dead.
      Cancer is known to cause depression and suicidal thoughts.
      Having your family get killed in a car crash won't make you stronger mentally or physically.
      Loosing your fucking eye in an accident won't make you stronger it would make you depressed and insecure.

      This is the classic feminist logic.
      *takes her clothes off, i'm now a stronger women.
      *had sex with a random guy, yay i'm empowered.
      and i could go on and on.

  • No it's corrupted now and toxic. We need an egalitarian movement. Feminism isn't for true equality. It's under the guise of true equality but really it's under the assumption that women are being oppressed let's take men down.

    In reality there's a lot of times things are equal in opportunity but women are trying to push equality of outcome. They aren't the same thing.

    Feminism actively hurts men, and I'm not talking about making things even. I'm talking about abusing men under the guise of equality.

    • Is everyone here dumb? Protest are specific. Gay rights. Immigrant rights. Student rights. Child rights. Black rights. But apparently this one protest for women is harmful. If you want to speak for mens rights, do it! Id support it but how the f*ck am i supposed to speak for men when i have no idea what its like to be a guy? So OBVIOUSLY, i have to speak for myself and people like me. Duh. Thats the point in specific protest. Broad topics dont do sh*t. I don't agree with the way feminist are running things in America but does that mean im saying "f womens rights"? No. I can still have same beliefs and disagree with what they do and focus on.

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    • It's called willing to work long hours away from the home and taking jobs that require travel to remote but higher paying areas. Also types of degrees earned, why do you think STEM is such a big issue right now? Look it up.

    • @Wwwyzzerdd If you looked up exclusivity youd know that what you just said backs up exclusivity dumb*ss

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What Girls Said 39

  • (1) "The fact that I can't show my shoulders or above my knees..."
    - Well, I think you can't do that because your school probably has a dress code. Not only guys will get distracted but girls, too. You can dress as you desire when you're outside the premises.

    (2) "Young girls are often sex Slaves and dont have a right to an education."
    - The first one has some truth to it if it's sentenced like this: "Sex slaves are often young girls." The second sentence, meanwhile, is absolutely false.

    • Right. Nicely said.

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    • You've just earned a follower.

    • I used to be a teenage boy and I can confirm that slowing sexualy attractive girls to be in the same room as heterosexual boys, or to walk past the window, is a distraction.

  • You do know like half of the things you listed aren't related to feminism, right? What does a woman being on her period and touching people have to do to with feminism? That's a cultural belief system and I doubt feminism can change that. You'd need more of a shift in political power to make any sort of progress with something like that.

    And being a feminist isn't a horrible thing. Being a femi-nazi is.

    • Feminism is also about influence. Having a period is a part of being a woman. Not a part of politics

  • Girl, we don't. At least not in first world countries. Maybe not even 3rd world countries. In Mexico for example, is considered a 3rd word country. In most areas people live like in a 1st world country but in the south and lower class people don't and women ARE opressed. But not by law but for their surroundings. Same with Russia, there are areas where it is acceptable for men to hit their wives. But it is all in the society, women don't lack any rights men have. Women in those areas, and those in the Middle East under sharia law MIGHT need feminism. But feminism has become a movement for useless and false "oppressions". So I think if anything they NEED egalitarianism. Or I don't know. ANYTHING but 3rd wave feminism. You ladies in the USA need to check YOUR privilege.

    • I grew up studying in a third world country, Egypt to be exact and I never heard of a girl being grabbed by her fanny in a high school, if a guy does as little as slap back a girl that slapped him he'll get expelled. If one of my friends did grab a girl by her fanny and try to boast about it we'll probably "deal" with him and the girls family will most likely try to kill him. Of course there are many things women lack in Egypt but I've never heard of girls raped in schools, the most common type of rape is male students raping another male student which isn't uncommon at all, is this issue brought up? hardly, what happens to a guy that's been raped? far worse than what would happen to a girl that's been raped. It's not that uncommon in public schools, not only in Egypt but a lot of third world countries.

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    • @TheUglyMonk Action can't be taken until people discuss it. Just like anything else

    • @XOXOME16 English isn't my first language but I'm pretty sure that discussing doesn't mean getting angry, insulting people who disagree with you, complain about the issue to every human you see.

  • Here we go again with the "wage gap" and equal pay between men and women. News flash honey, females can't do the same work as males. Not most females that is. Males have a higher tolerance and motivation when it comes to working. Not only that, but depending on what field you get into, it requires physical strength which males easily have that over women.

    It's funny how third wave feminists cry about having equal pay as males, yet they want days off when they're menstruating. They don't work in the same field, even if they do, they're not in the same position as the males they're referring to, that get more of a pay then they do. You're not going to sit here and tell me that if a guy and a girl both worked at some fast food joint, they're not making the same amount of money each hour. In what world does that exist? Not in the West. Not even in third world countries. Those people who make our clothes, they work for a few cents a DAY and you're complaining because Johnny gets paid $1.25 than you do.

    Not everyone gets equal pay. It isn't a matter of male and female. I know women who make more money then their husbands. The wage gap has been proven to be inaccurate MANY, MANY times yet you third wave feminazis still try to use this argument. Back in the 90s when the gap WAS an issue, they corrected that.

    The whole dress code thing is something that really gets under my skin, and not for the reason that you think. You're in school. A school that does not belong to you. A school that has EVERY right to ban whatever they want. If they say no tights are allowed, that's what you do. You're there for 7-8 hours out of the day, suck it up and get over it.

    I don't know ANY school that allows ANYONE to wear shirts that has naked women are profanities on their shirts. Most schools don't allow hats, are you going to complain about that as well?

    Yes, other parts of the world has these issues. But that's their problem. As harsh as that sounds. People have tried to bring feminism into a lot of those countries before and the women were the ones saying they didn't want it. Whether that was due to their husbands or not, you can't help someone who openly rejects it. I would also get more into this subject, but that would take a while and I don't have another space.

    In conclusion; yes, there are parts of the world that needs feminism. Is it in the way that you and other feminists think? No, it is not. Not every country runs in the same way as America.

    • If you can actually read, youd know that i stated that the world isn't America. I clearly said shit about 3rd world countries and its problems. So OBVIOUSLY, that is what i think. But i guess you're just another illiterate excuse of a woman and skipped that part. Anyone can be just as motivated as a man. No one is more of something than anyone. And i feel bad for you that you think that of yourself.

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    • @Theearthisflat Someone understand communicating skills. Too bad someone who is 18 doesn't. But I'm not too surprised.

    • Actually, that's where you're wrong. It's natural for human beings to be better than others. Males are typically better at doing work than females are. Hence why more males are in higher positions. It's in our natures as these two genders. I'm sorry that most feminists can't understand and accept that.

      I know you said America isn't the world, but my point was that the WORLD doesn't revolve around America or operate in the same fashion. Just because the US sees something as bad, doesn't mean the rest of the world is the same way. In some countries people don't finish school past a certain age. It's sad, but that's the way THAT country runs. You can't base other countries off of the one you live in.

  • Feminism is good that is TRUE feminism is good. True feminism believes that men and women should be equal, not that women should be superior to men. I can't stand feminists these days because they work on women rights only, but don't even acknowledge how men suffer as well.

    1. Man gets raped by a woman... good luck with getting the women in jail

    2. Man and woman have the same crime... man is more likely to be sentenced to jail for longer

    3. Social media... during Trump and Hilary running for President, I never once saw an article saying "Trump offends all men", but I certainly saw an article saying "Trump offends all women" Women tend to have more voice in social media because it's unforgivable to go against what women want, but men? You guys can suffer; we don't care

    4. You and your husband file a divorce and child custody isn't split even? Well, I know the woman is going to have more custody already

    5. Homeless man and woman on the same street.. you betcha the woman is going to get more money than the man

    6. Jobs.. there is no wage gap. Women choose lower paying jobs than men; that's a choice that can't be complained about

    7. Women are less likely hired than men? That's a lie: they're actually 1/3 more likely to get hired than a man

    8. Sexual harassment.. yes, yes, it's more likely to happen to a woman, but men typically aren't even acknowledged as harassed because he's a guy... of course he wants sex. Couldn't possibly find a guy that wouldn't want to not have sex with any women breathing!

    • Thats why its called Women rights and not human rights. Every protest focuses on a specific thing yet people think just bc you're for something, you're against the other. Thats not the truth. I believe in mens rights as well but is that what im talking about right now? No its not. If you want to hear my approach on mens rights ill make one but if you want to ignore the points just bc you think men are being ignored on a post about WOMENS RIGHTS then why even click on it.

    • Just because you support men's rights doesn't mean that the feminist establishment agrees with you. They'll take your votes and they'll take your money, and then they'll continue on with their blatant misandry and their family destabilizing genocidal agenda. Remember! You will be judged by the company that you keep and by the banner that you wave.

    • @castratedwhiteguy if you want to judge people based on a title and assumptions then go ahead.

  • A friend of mine is a 40 year old woman who moved here from India. She told me about how she had an arranged marriage, moved to America with her husband, and then he met someone else and they divorced. She says she misses her family back in India, but she feels she can't return because divorce is so taboo there and they would say it's her fault no matter what. Also if she returned, she'd be expected to remarry and she doesn't want to. She says she likes her independence.

    It's really interesting to talk to her and see how things are different over there. Anyway though, yes, proud feminist here as well! Girls deserve the same opportunities and respect as men.

    • Yup. Mindset needs to change in india. It is actually with my generation. Maybe by the end of next decade, there will be huge tonal dhift

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    • @followthebuzzards dude. There are other women. Its their loss if they are prjudiced. Generalization sucks. Men also has problems at how they are being perceived in society😭. But tougher for women in india comparitively.

    • @Gouthamfab
      But it's not my fault nor my responsibility.

      Is it @snowangle fault if a white nationalist committed a hate crime?

  • XD XD
    You are a feminazi. I could have understood your point if you didn't go into a fucking rant about unnecessary details. I could barely read this.

    • And you're a 14 yo old clueless girl who got that word from a lowclass meme. Tell me which of my points are wrong then, since you're so smart.

    • Just because someone grabbed you inappropriately doesn't mean every male is a sexual offender. The dress code, I will admit, may get a little unnecessary at times, but that does not mean you are to go on a rant. As far as I know, boys can't wear shirts with slogans like you have mentioned on them. There is discrimination in other countries, but feminists rarely mention that. Instead, you guys tend to rant about how much you hate men.

  • Okay the idea of equality is necessary in all societies, thats something we can't deny. But the problem is, the way feminists are delivering the idea of equality. The examples you stated are important to be solved, but the example of "men can go topless in the streets so that means we can too"... C'mon, seriously? Smh. How about guys go with bikinis coz women do that? 😂
    Also, I've seen lots of feminists go lash at guys OR girls who don't really agree with what they say (like the topless thing I stated) and other topics, which is one of the things that everyone should avoid when trying to make their point clear to others or convince them.

    im not a modern feminist. I'm against injustice. I'm against violence towards any gender just because they are from that specific gender. Im against giving higher salaries to men just coz they are men even when the woman is doing the exact same job. Im against body shaming and the list goes on. But I'm a firm believer that each gender have their own specific things. Going back to that example I mentioned, just coz a man can go shirtless then it doesn't mean women can too. doesn't need any rocket science to know that the womens' bodies are more attractive than guys. AND guys *are* visual creatures so you will always have guys looking at you sexually if you dont even slightly cover yourself up a bit. ( and no, this does not mean I don't think rape is disgusting coz it is. And its not right on any ways, but you can't go out naked and expect *all* guys to be gentlemen and not look.)

    • And by the way, many male jobs require strength which is something many woman dont have. Its silly how its like a contest " oh, so you can do this? I'll show you how I can do it like you or better" exactly like how kids argue. We all have our own roles, each of us can improve it. Most men can't do multitasking, as for woman, they mostly can. I've never heard I guy complain about that.

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    • I totally agree 100%. Idgaf about the feminist who think not being able to walk around naked is a problem. 1st world issues are trash and a waste of time to talk about when there are real problems. Hence why i didn't talk about it in the first place.

    • I'm not so sure about the part where you say women's bodies are objectively more attractive than male's bodies. The over-sexualization of topless girls is cultural; in parts of Africa, girls go completely topless just like guys and there are no problems--no staring, no heterosexual guys walking around with perpetual boners, etc.

  • ok go to middle eastern countries and set them straight.

    • The point of why we need it is so that can happen. 1 person can't do it alone. Im not a magician. But if people actually came together and stopped being a bunch of anal pessimists then maybe it can actually happen. But it won't with people like you to drag something good down.

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    • how am i dragging you guys down?

    • you aren't dragging anybody down,,, your statements are articulate and realistic

  • The only good thing I can say about this is that you were honest about it being a rant. Another stupid feminist rant. *sigh*

    • I know right?

    • Another stupid snowflake *sigh*. You mean to tell me that women in 3rd world countries dont deserve freedom? You're an idiot if you think that. Shocker.

  • It's stupid how some people think feminism is just about hate.

    That's not feminism. That's simply some misguided women that don't know what feminism is about.

    But the problem is many people listen to them and think feminism is a horrible thing, when in fact feminism is about just striving for having the same rights as men. All Men are created equal and shit... where have I heard this before? lol :)

    So no, it is not about disrespecting men. It is about respecting ourselves enough to want to stand beside them :) and cooperate with them towards a better and more humane society for everyone.


    I am a feminist and I RESPECT THE SHIT OUT OF MEN! :D (and women) lol

    And no, the good fight isn't over.

  • Without reading, i will say what I always say: we still need feminism, yes. The question now is where do we need it? USA? Canada? Australia? West European countries? Not anymore. Women pretty much have most, if not all, of their rights there, equality. Asia and the middle east? Fuck yes. Bring the feMinists here. Women here are still judged on how pretty they are, whether or not they are still virgins, how light their skin is, how thin they are.

  • In third-world countries where women are getting stoned for stupid shit... YES women need feminism. In first-world countries (the US, Australia, UK for example)... No I'm saying this as a woman. It isn't needed. Not that women say that they are feminists because y'all complain about dumb shit like manspreading and shit that doesn't even exist like the wage gap. The first paragraph you talk about it. I'm just rolling my eyes like you guys are beating a dead horse at this point. THE WAGE GAP DOES NOT EXIST. I agree in other parts of the world women cannot pick what to wear. Hell, women are killed for being suspected of taking their hijab or other garments off. But women can walk around with their ass and titties out for the slutwalks and shit. You are worried about religions telling women to stay in their place. DUH! It's religion... all religions say that shit. You're just lucky that the religion in your country is modernized. So people are taking everything their holy text says literally. That's just religion being shitty and a bunch of religious nuts taking everything the bible, quran, etc. says at face value. People believe feminism is a joke because of modern day feminists' actions. There are plenty of people who aren't for feminism who say "I'm all for 1st wave feminism and 2nd wave, but i'm not for 3rd wave feminism" I'm glad you recognize women's issues outside your country. But what exactly are feminists in general doing about it? Walking in their underwear? Complaining about manspreading and the bullshit wage gap? Is there sexism still in the US? Of course! Are there sexist assholes? Hell yeah! But it isn't stopping you (atleast in the West) or other women from doing what you want to do. No one is holding women back from doing CSTEM majors/careers but yourself. Victimizing woman and demonizing men is not going to empower women especially young girls. Yes you will have setbacks, challenges, obstacles. But that shouldn't stop you from achieving your goals in life. Patriarchy ain't holding you back sis. That's my rant.

    • The wage gap does exist. Its a real thing, first of all. 2nd you're generalizing the average feminazi and saying shit i dont even believe in. 1st world problems aren't my biggest issue so if you have something against it, i really can't give a sh*t. Manspreading, walking naked etc, idfc. I dont believe in it so thanks for wasting your time with that dumbass sh*t. If i believed in it dont you think i would of said it in my rant? But i didn't. 3rd Just because its a religion makes it ok? No it doesn't. Its not just a Muslim belief either. Its pratically anywhere that is 3rd world. Also you keep saying y'all and addressing it as if multiple people wrote my rant. I wrote it. Address me if you have something to say. I don't know who else you're talking to. If thats your rant, buy a better one.

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    • @XOXOME16 It is blatantly obvious you did not read my full response. But let's talk about what you said shall we. 1.) The wage gap is comparing the hours worked/salary of full-time working men vs. women. It does not account for many factors (hours worked, what job they work, positions, etc.) You cannot compare a surgeon's salary to an elementary school teacher's. That's what the 77 cents to a dollar bs comes from. I never said that YOU specifically complain about first world issues. I said feminism in general does this. Ties back that you just read something that you didn't like the replied lol. Then the religion thing makes it sooo obvious you ain't read my response where i literally say "That's just religion beinng shitty and a bunch of religious nuts believing whatever the bible, quran, etc. says at face vaule." And I obviously blamed all religions for saying that shit. Lol, read my whole response then come back to me sis 🤦🏾‍♀️😴💅🏾.

    • Oh @XOXOME16 Since you wanna ask people can they read. How can you say that when you didn't read a lot of the responses including mine throughout the whole thing. The real question is can you read because I don't know where you getting half of these responses from. Did you just pull it out you ass? Can you read?

  • We don't need feminism or MGTOW.

    We need human rights of being sovereign citizens of the planet Earth.

    • Yes but protests and speaking out is how you get there, hun. You dont wave a magic wand and problems go away

    • I don't understand why it's only rights for women. Both men and women suffer from issues. It should be grouped as human rights not based on one gender but two genders.

  • At the end of the day, we all gon die anyways so shut up. I have my own land and I can do what I want regardless I e. g. anyone says. If they don't like it, they can get the fuck off my property. So I couldn't care less about this take. And plus, y'all already have the right to vote. isn't that enough? Like, what else do y'all need?

    • You're incredibly dumb. But im sure you know that already. You're the type of woman that only cares about her and her stuff. You're the uneducated type that thinks the world is fine when its not. Feminism isn't just about America. It barely should be. There are women that dont even have a right to their own life so before you start talking dumb, stfu.

    • I'm not the dumb one. Look in the mirror and you'll find out who is. And why would I spend time looking at the things all the other women go through when none of them even know I exist? So yes. I do care about myself and my property. I care about my family and my friends. And that's it. I'm not uneducated. I'm actually very smart. There are pros and cons to both genders. They will both be fine because at the end of the day we're all going to die.

  • I'm not sure where I stand on this... like there are so many good points made that are relevant to me as a woman but I just find a lot of it distasteful. If we're gonna go with terms or labels then I prefer identifying as an egalitarian.

    • only asking for curiosities sake, what do you find distasteful about it?

      I label myself as egalitarian as well.

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    • XOXO are you referring too feminism or egalitarianism?

    • @KenM9215 Egalitarian. I can be a feminist and want rights for men, which i am, without changing the label just so people are less offended. I just think men and women have different problems. Women have problems, like i talked about. Men have to do more with the 1st world justice system and etc.

  • I agree for the most part, except I don't think the wage gap is real (or at least not for the reasons some feminists think). The reason why it annoys me when women say we don't need feminism anymore, is because it's so tunnel-visioned. Women's rights were hard-fought not that long ago, and in MANY countries around the world, women still don't have equal rights. However, this is also something that annoys me about (some) feminists. They'll focus on issues like "manspreading" when women in other countries are being stoned for being raped. The world (including Western countries) still needs feminism, but I feel like a lot of the focus is misplaced.

    • I know i saw the video of buzzfeed on it and i watched it for 2 seconds and i was already annoyed. You want the focus to be on more important things? Then stop talking about what other people waste time talking about. Which is why i didn't talk about it

  • Modern day feminism is complete bullshit, Complains men rape women (which they don't know men are raped just as much as women are by WOMEN). Lmfao women have it good these days, stfu about being OPPRESSED! Go to Saudi Arabia and protest were WOMEN and CHILDREN are being beheaded! Gtfo here with your feminist bullshit. I fucking love men. Don't marry a feminist, marry a patriot like me ;)

    • I love men too. I have a boyfriend. I have a father. I have brothers. Friends. What does me being a feminist have to do with men? Oppression isn't a man problem, its a people problem. I suppot rights for men just as much. My main reason to being a feminist is for women in 3rd world countries. If you weren't so illiterate, you would get that. I can explain it to you but i can't understand it for you. Catch up, hun.

  • The school system is f***ed up- there's no doubt about that- but that was YOUR school out of the hundreds of others in this country. In my middle school, a guy had a list of girls whose butts to slap, and the moment one of my sister's friends reported being slapped, the school suspended him for two weeks. His mom threw his phone in the blender. Not only that, but a more prevalent issue in the current denial-of-freedom-of-expression issue is the censorship of republican beliefs. Just recently in a high school, something more outrageous than not being able to wear ripped jeans occurred, as many students who were wearing Make America Great Again shirts in their yearbook pictures had their messages photoshopped from their shirts. And pretty much everything you mentioned in your rant other than denial of freedom of expression in schools, which affects both girls AND guys, and the wage gap, are about things that happen in OTHER COUNTRIES, and under permission of Sharia Law. If you want to get rid of female injustice in other countries, try letting Trump bomb the hell out of Isis and defeat radical Islam. And about being "denied a job just because you have a p****," that's just a sad little excuse you make for yourself not having a job. And if you do have one, then why are you complaining? And your false logic may be a reason you weren't hired in the case that you didn't get a job. My mom is a top business executive at a U. S. government-subsidized facility. So obviously nothing about the U. S. gov't or their actions denies women of getting a job. Plus my mom makes more money than most men in the company, Florida Blue. And about the wage gap, a lot of men actually get less money than a lot of women; they just don't complain about it. But if a man happens to make more money than you, despite being on the same level of business hierarchy, either you don't get your work done as fast as him, don't do a good job getting it done, don't spend as much time at work as the guy in the cubicle across from you, OR YOU HAVE ONCE BEEN ON MATERNITY LEAVE!!! It most likely says right on the paperwork that being nine-months absent would bring down your salary! And if the guy ISN'T in the same level of business hierarchy as you,... that answers it! If he's in a lower hierarchy than you, not only could he work harder, but you'd control his salary. Stop complaining and get working!

    • I want to point out, though, that I agree the "if I was an employer and could pay women less, I would hire only women" thing is false, as the same sexist men who would pay women less wouldn't hire women more for the same reason (s) they are sexist. And if my above opinion regarding reasoning for wage differences between you and another doesn't apply to you, then quit your job for a better one. And suing is okay as well for a real sexism issue, but otherwise, please don't! Is this the society we want? A society where men are afraid to or not to hire a woman because of fear of being sued in the long run? Or where they are afraid to pay men their fair share in fear that a woman will object? Where women will be able to grope men but people will go crazy over a man groping a woman?

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    • What makes it invalid? What makes it hypocritical? Just because an opinion isn't yours doesn't make it incorrect. And if me being a non-feminist female is hypocritical, then everything is. @XOXOME16

    • I also believe it to be actually lessening female status for so many women to be complaining. Feminism makes women look like they have to fight so hard for themselves, making us look weaker, and for rights we already have, making us look stupid. I prefer silently expressing my abilities and lack of inferiority through expressing my logic and athleticism everyday. That's called progress without complaint. It's fun. You should try it sometime. @XOXOME16

  • I just... don't like feminism. It's not what it was supposed to be.. I think
    Wanting to be equal seem unreachable anyway

    • That's because people only want the good that the other gender seems to get. But to truly be equal we'll have to fully accept the good and the bad. People don't want to do that

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    • I think both genders excel just in different parts/things.

    • In Cuba there are more women doctors than male doctors! You can be equal, give the right sort of government.

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